Soooo was there anything you guys actually liked about Scientology?

[Dotey OT]

Here is my opinion. Toss it in the heap of valueless opinions.

The current scientologist that has been in for around twenty years or a bit is a goner. I have seen people that have been in longer get out, but almost anyone that has a little less than twenty years in is going to be pretty stuck in it. Especially those that participated actively in the ideal org scam, I mean program. I got a guy and his wife out, he had been in since the 80's. He had been blown but he was recovered, but he missed the ideal org scam.

 

[Dotey OT]

Could you tell me who that is with Ron in your Avatar? The Scientologist I'm trying to spring out, might not be a good target... She seems absolutely in love with Scientology and I get the feeling she doesn't spend much time around other Scientologists. She travels to other countries (Japan, Taiwan, etc) and shares it with them.

That's flubtards second wife Sara Northrup. I always used to see the photo shopped pic WITHOUT her. I showed it to a friend that was in, and he said the original pic was photoshpped.

Sara Northrup Hollister - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Karakorum]

I have been out just over three years, and have gotten several people out. I have people that I have not gotten out as well. I am UTR, and it is in my best interest to stay that way, but I have put my neck on the line once or twice, and I am still living!

It really depends on the kind of scientologist that you are trying to spring out. I know some that are (I will start using the terminology) nattery, or critical of the organization, but still keep both feet in. They try to recover me, so those guys I have given up on. I used to think I could get anyone out, but I have come to find that is not the case.

My idea is exactly my avatar photo, they see something that can't be unseen. They hear something that can't be unheard (A little harder), or they have seen some action that they know wasn't right.

Well, you are a better person than I am. I tried to communicate with a few people inside that I thought I could perhaps talk out of scientology. I got absolutely no reply in any form. I guess the just threw my letters to the bin as soon as they got them.
Thing is: I am incognito here, but I am otherwise not UTR and people know I'm a big bad SP. The fact that I was not communicating with anyone for years doesn't help.

 

[Veda]

So today my friend in Scientology wanted to know why I didn't agree with Scientology. For hours we spoke at length of our own life experiences, philosophy, and beliefs. Both being rather respectful and ended well. At the end of the discussion I told her it wasn't actually my beliefs that were preventing me from believing Scientology has it all 'right'. and that next time (tomorrow morning) we could go over that.

So I'm about to move away from belief and start discussing some truths with her about LRH. I feel photo evidence (like the photo of his 2nd wife and child) speaks louder than written words because it's harder to deny.

Is there anything you guys would recommend I share with her?

How deeply involved in Scientology is this person?

Is she a public? How long has she been a member? What training and auditing has she done? Does she have family members who are in Scientology? Is her employer a Scientologist?

Where is she located on or in the Scientological Onion?

 

[james087]

How deeply involved in Scientology is this person?

Is she a public? How long has she been a member? What training and auditing has she done? Does she have family members who are in Scientology? Is her employer a Scientologist?

Where is she located on or in the Scientological Onion?

Her name is Mary Jane, Reeve. She has the numbers 69 at the end of her email. I'm going to assume that it isn't a Weed/Sex reference and that's just her name and probably year she was born. I heard she was from the Philippines from staff but she say's she's from Australia.

If she's born in 69 then she's about 50yo. She said she first found the book Dianetics in college so assuming I assumed everything else correctly she's been into Scientology for roughly 30years. Scientology is her employer. They have hired her to talk to people like me over the phone and get them to read books such as Dianetics and Self Analysis. I haven't asked about her family (possibly still in the country she left) nor have I asked about how far up she's on the bridge, but I'd venture pretty far If she started that long ago.

She seems 1st, 2nd or 3rd layer. She was very surprised when I mentioned the most basic of out of place behavior I encountered while in the org.

I imagine she's having a lot of fun traveling from country to country (Scientology Missions International). I wonder if the church is covering some of the expenses for this? She seems to be working full time (including the weekends) for Scientology.

"Describing the purpose and functions of SMI, the "Command Channels" booklet sees SMI as a "tactical management unit which is in charge of and fully responsible for the expansion of the mission network." Furthermore, it states:

... Its purpose is to get missions functioning as Scientology's spearhead into the society and to hold wide open the entrance gates of the Bridge. This is achieved by getting the missions flooding their community with books, getting a huge volume of new public onto the Bridge through clearly delineated introductory routes with basic Scientology and Dianetics services well delivered, and by driving people further up the Bridge to orgs so they can train as auditors and go Clear and OT."


The more I write the more I doubt I'll be able to have any immediate influence on her. But I can at least drop a seed of doubt.

 

[Xenu Xenu Xenu]

So today my friend in Scientology wanted to know why I didn't agree with Scientology. For hours we spoke at length of our own life experiences, philosophy, and beliefs. Both being rather respectful and ended well. At the end of the discussion I told her it wasn't actually my beliefs that were preventing me from believing Scientology has it all 'right'. and that next time (tomorrow morning) we could go over that.

So I'm about to move away from belief and start discussing some truths with her about LRH. I feel photo evidence (like the photo of his 2nd wife and child) speaks louder than written words because it's harder to deny.

Is there anything you guys would recommend I share with her?

I have never tried to get anyone out of Scientology and I doubt I would even try at this point in my life. I would rather distribute the protest leaflets that I have printed just to inoculate those who were never in the cult. That is my form of protest and activism. I leave them all over the place and sometimes even snail mail them to Scientologists in my city just to stir things up.

It just seems to me that talking to a Scientologist is a waste of time because they aren't going to believe you no matter how many photos and literature you give them. They may eventually leave the cult on their own but I certainly wouldn't try to turn them.

I know that if anyone ever tried that with me, I would just write them off as a horrible buzz kill who was trying to ruin my little Scientology party. I might even write some sort of knowledge report on them if I felt somewhat guilty about talking to them about it. A lot of Scientologists just want to be left alone because they actually think that they are in a respectable religion like the Episcopalians or Methodists.

Since you've already talked to her for hours about it, I guess it couldn't hurt to continue. It sounds like your talks are going fine so far. I mean what the hell do I know? I wish you luck.

I am surprised that it went this well. Who knows, maybe you do have a chance to plant a seed of doubt.

At least she knows who to contact if she ever decides to leave.

 

[Dotey OT]

Truth is, I would like to do something fun, large scale. But I also don't feel like I owe anyone that's still in anything. I used to think that was when I was in "We don't owe anyone scamatology!", now the cycle is complete, as Darth Vader would say.

 

[Deleted member 51]

Could you tell me who that is with Ron in your Avatar? The Scientologist I'm trying to spring out, might not be a good target... She seems absolutely in love with Scientology and I get the feeling she doesn't spend much time around other Scientologists. She travels to other countries (Japan, Taiwan, etc) and shares it with them.

That's because they're holding her passport and haven't filed any permanent emigration dox for her. If she doesn't travel every few months, it's a visa violation. Besides, it's much harder for her to contact her familiy or for them to find her that way.

 

[Chuck J.]

This is an excellent read, thankyou.

It is excellent. The other must read thread, well actually there are several, but The Sole Source Myth is a must read.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Sounds like you are talking to a Sea Org member. Good luck with that.

The only reason she's still talking to you is her hope to bring you back into the cult.

And you're only talking to her to try to get her out.

LOL, good luck!

 

[Veda]

Her name is Mary Jane, Reeve. She has the numbers 69 at the end of her email. I'm going to assume that it isn't a Weed/Sex reference and that's just her name and probably year she was born. I heard she was from the Philippines from staff but she say's she's from Australia. View attachment 5151

If she's born in 69 then she's about 50yo. She said she first found the book Dianetics in college so assuming I assumed everything else correctly she's been into Scientology for roughly 30years. Scientology is her employer. They have hired her to talk to people like me over the phone and get them to read books such as Dianetics and Self Analysis. I haven't asked about her family (possibly still in the country she left) nor have I asked about how far up she's on the bridge, but I'd venture pretty far If she started that long ago.

She seems 1st, 2nd or 3rd layer. She was very surprised when I mentioned the most basic of out of place behavior I encountered while in the org.

I imagine she's having a lot of fun traveling from country to country (Scientology Missions International). I wonder if the church is covering some of the expenses for this? She seems to be working full time (including the weekends) for Scientology.

"Describing the purpose and functions of SMI, the "Command Channels" booklet sees SMI as a "tactical management unit which is in charge of and fully responsible for the expansion of the mission network." Furthermore, it states:

... Its purpose is to get missions functioning as Scientology's spearhead into the society and to hold wide open the entrance gates of the Bridge. This is achieved by getting the missions flooding their community with books, getting a huge volume of new public onto the Bridge through clearly delineated introductory routes with basic Scientology and Dianetics services well delivered, and by driving people further up the Bridge to orgs so they can train as auditors and go Clear and OT."


The more I write the more I doubt I'll be able to have any immediate influence on her. But I can at least drop a seed of doubt.

Under planting seeds of doubt, asking a question is sometimes more effective that making a statement.

You could ask her, "Is your loyalty primarily to L. Ron Hubbard or to David Miscavige?"

And, "Have you ever seen a video recording where L. Ron Hubbard authorizes David Miscavige to be the Boss of Scientology?"

And, "Can you tell me why there is no such video recording?"

And, "If you saw that David Miscavige had 'squirreled' (altered) Scientology, what would you do?"

And, "Is there anything you would be afraid to say to David Miscavige?"

And, if she hasn't cut you off by now, "Did you know that David Miscavige's 'withhold,' from Scientologists, is that there are no more OT levels, and Scientology does not have a bridge to OT."

"There's no more reason to empty your mind of doubts about Miscavige-Scientology."

"There are places where you can practice Hubbard-Scientology and be free of Miscavige-Scientology."

Etc.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Church of Scientology Australia
ABN: 25 151 052 274 (from 23 May 2011)
ACNC: Charity Register Summary

Entitled to charity tax concessions. Not entitled to receive tax deductible gifts.
Responsible Persons:

• Director: Vicki Dunstan
• Treasurer: Aleta Cross
• Board Member: Katrina Craven
• Board Member: Christine Harris
• Board Member: Mary Jane Reeve

Revenue:

• 2016: $45,933,936.
• 2015: $27,299,103.

 

[james087]

Church of Scientology Australia
ABN: 25 151 052 274 (from 23 May 2011)
ACNC: Charity Register Summary

Entitled to charity tax concessions. Not entitled to receive tax deductible gifts.
Responsible Persons:

• Director: Vicki Dunstan
• Treasurer: Aleta Cross
• Board Member: Katrina Craven
• Board Member: Christine Harris
• Board Member: Mary Jane Reeve

Revenue:

• 2016: $45,933,936.
• 2015: $27,299,103.

OH SHIT. I'm terrified now. I am most grateful you were able to pull that information. When I click those links I don't see the people or revenue. Any way for me to do it?

 

[Harold#1]

So today my friend in Scientology wanted to know why I didn't agree with Scientology. For hours we spoke at length of our own life experiences, philosophy, and beliefs. Both being rather respectful and ended well. At the end of the discussion I told her it wasn't actually my beliefs that were preventing me from believing Scientology has it all 'right'. and that next time (tomorrow morning) we could go over that.

So I'm about to move away from belief and start discussing some truths with her about LRH. I feel photo evidence (like the photo of his 2nd wife and child) speaks louder than written words because it's harder to deny.

Is there anything you guys would recommend I share with her?

That photo of LRH, his second wife Sara and his third child Alexis received its first public viewing in the HBO documentary "Going Clear". Connected to that photo, the documentary had a voice actor saying what LRH told her he did to their baby, Alexis whom he had kidnapped. He told Sara he cut Alexis in to pieces and threw the pieces into a river. If you haven't seen "Going Clear" yet, put it on your list. It's mine and others speculation that Sara and Alexis supplied the makers of the documentary with the photo of themselves and LRH.

Sundance Film Review: ‘Going Clear: Scientology & the Prison of Belief’

Though the lid was blown off the Church of Scientology long ago, Alex Gibney’s powder-keg documentary, “Going Clear,” should certainly rattle the walls, if not shake them to their very foundations.

variety.com

excerpt:

Among the juiciest bits: ..................... excerpts from the letters of Hubbard’s second wife, Sara Northrup Hollister (voiced in the film by actress Sherry Stringfield)

 

[Harold#1]

I have been out just over three years, and have gotten several people out. I have people that I have not gotten out as well. I am UTR, and it is in my best interest to stay that way, but I have put my neck on the line once or twice, and I am still living!

It really depends on the kind of scientologist that you are trying to spring out. I know some that are (I will start using the terminology) nattery, or critical of the organization, but still keep both feet in. They try to recover me, so those guys I have given up on. I used to think I could get anyone out, but I have come to find that is not the case.

My idea is exactly my avatar photo, they see something that can't be unseen. They hear something that can't be unheard (A little harder), or they have seen some action that they know wasn't right.

Tony Ortega has a good article on what Scientology did to fix your avatar photo to their liking, you've probably seen the article:

"What a great find. Now, let’s show you the images so you can see what Lauren is referring to. You can pull up the Miami Daily News issue of June 30, 1946 on Google and look at the original newspaper article for yourself. You’ll see that it includes numerous photos of Hubbard and Sara, including this great one of the two of them at the helm of their sailboat, the “Blue Water II.”



Now, if you happen to have a copy of the “Master Mariner” volume of the RON series of “biographical encyclopedias,” you will find on page 101 a slightly shortened version of the Miami Daily News story, with this image…



And now, here’s a side-by-side comparison, just so you can appreciate the Photoshop job done by the worker drones at the Church of Scientology…



Naturally, Sara is erased from the reprinted article as well. (Although she was hardly mentioned in the original.)

We thought you might like to see the text of the story (the Google archive is a little difficult to read). As you’ll see, Mr. Schindler’s gushing is really over the top.

We’ve put in italics all of the text that was removed for the version that was included in the “Master Mariner” volume of The RON Series…"

Scientology Photoshopping: Erasing L. Ron Hubbard’s second wife from ‘The RON Series’ | The Underground Bunker

tonyortega.org

 

[Veda]

OH SHIT. I'm terrified now. I am most grateful you were able to pull that information. When I click those links I don't see the people or revenue. Any way for me to do it?

In Scientology, board members have no power. It's all for show. No need to be concerned.

People, who, unlike Ms. Reeve, had actual positions of executive authority, have been abandoning Scientology, like a sinking ship, for decades.

 

[james087]

In Scientology, board members have no power. It's all for show. No need to be concerned.

People, who, unlike Ms. Reeve, had actual positions of executive authority, have been abandoning Scientology, like a sinking ship, for decades.

Thanks, I think I can calm down now. Foof

 

[james087]

Tony Ortega has a good article on what Scientology did to fix your avatar photo to their liking, you've probably seen the article:

"What a great find. Now, let’s show you the images so you can see what Lauren is referring to. You can pull up the Miami Daily News issue of June 30, 1946 on Google and look at the original newspaper article for yourself. You’ll see that it includes numerous photos of Hubbard and Sara, including this great one of the two of them at the helm of their sailboat, the “Blue Water II.”



Now, if you happen to have a copy of the “Master Mariner” volume of the RON series of “biographical encyclopedias,” you will find on page 101 a slightly shortened version of the Miami Daily News story, with this image…



And now, here’s a side-by-side comparison, just so you can appreciate the Photoshop job done by the worker drones at the Church of Scientology…



Naturally, Sara is erased from the reprinted article as well. (Although she was hardly mentioned in the original.)
We thought you might like to see the text of the story (the Google archive is a little difficult to read). As you’ll see, Mr. Schindler’s gushing is really over the top.
We’ve put in italics all of the text that was removed for the version that was included in the “Master Mariner” volume of The RON Series…"

Scientology Photoshopping: Erasing L. Ron Hubbard’s second wife from ‘The RON Series’ | The Underground Bunker

tonyortega.org

@Harold#1 You have been too kind in getting such great information to me and I really appreciate it. I'm actually flabbergasted of how welcoming and giving this whole community has been towards me. Thank you all.

 

[Chuck J.]

Sounds like you are talking to a Sea Org member. Good luck with that.

The only reason she's still talking to you is her hope to bring you back into the cult.

And you're only talking to her to try to get her out.

LOL, good luck!

Probably.

 

[Riddick]

Probably.

all scientologists who talk to somebody follow the ARC formula of ARC= understanding.

That means first establish a point of reality or agreement, then once that has been established, increase affinity and communication and thus understanding is supposed to occur. The hidden agenda is I what you to be a scientologists and join our group or religion. We will all like each other for a common goal of peace on earth, where the able can prosper, and we scientology can make you more able. Of course, it's all a crack of shit.