Soooo was there anything you guys actually liked about Scientology?

james087

Member
My post was to say that yes, you can get sometimes a lot from auditing. Whether it stays is a different story.
Ah! I've never experienced an engram per say, but I've definitely experienced touching on past repressed trauma. Real emotional pain. Engrams seem like assigning 'why' to noise. Especially 'puns'. (I'm almost through with reading the book) It seems ridiculous to me, especially because I didn't start seeing puns until I was like 25 (language learning disability).

Thanks for explaining that people really do feel better and get wins from Scientology. (although it might not last)

My current beliefs are that although yes many of us absorb and learn from the people around us, It's how we respond that matters the most. We just need self awareness and agency over our selves.

Breaking down the barrier between me and my emotions was just what I needed. Now I can see how I'm treating myself. So now I choose to treat myself with love, respect and naturally in tern treat other people that way too. I think most people treat others how they treat themselves. They just aren't aware of how they are treating themselves.

Hubbard for example lied to himself about things, believed them, and thus spread that to others getting them to lie to themselves so that they could then spread it even further.
 
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Veda

Well-known member
I hope you mean to say that there is no nirvana of clear or OT?

Don't you think?

Nirvana was what the Buddists were after, and Hubbard sort of explained he had the techniques, auditing, to do it. But Hubbard never achieved nirvana thru his auditing techniques. Nor has anybody else. Don't you think?
Perhaps I should put the last couple of posts (above) in context. There was a time, during the early 1980s, when there was a schism in Scientology. Lots of Scientology's top "tech" people, and many of its top Mission (franchise) holders, and others, including notorious 1960s "squirrel" Jack Horner, and Nibs (L. Ron Hubbard Jr.), were talking. Most had published phone numbers where they could be reached.

Prior to that, communication, in Scientology, was very controlled and inhibited. In Scientology it still was, but now (in the USA) there was a loose group of people called the "Independent Field." It became possible to actually audit without someone looking over your shoulder. At the time, to me, since I already owned an e-meter, and had already audited, inside Scientology, it seemed like a reasonable first action, in the re-investigation of Scientology, would be to audit a whole bunch.

Anyway, I think you're just being informal in your use of "nirvana." It's kind of a messy area, since Buddhists don't even agree on what the word means.

Hubbard stated that there is no Nirvana, which he interpreted to mean the extinction of self. Once, as cited on this thread from early 1952, and, again, in the book Scientology 8-8008 from late 1952. And there may have been a few other occasions when he dismissed the idea of "Nirvana."

The top of the Grade Chart, during Scientology's period of greatest expansion, before the "Bridge" became a hamster wheel, was "Total Freedom" and "Total Power," which would be very un-Nirvana like.

Of course, that was old OT 8 (of the 1960s) which never actually existed, but was sold, and sat proudly at the top of the Grade Chart.


Here's a "pre OT" solo auditing.

As you can see, even though he's "Clear,"
he still has all sorts of icky "case."


Hubbard redefined "Clear" at least a dozen times, which, at first glance, may have appeared to have been an honest attempt at achieving a more desirable state of being, but, ultimately, became merely a marketing gimmick. That was certainly Class XII and former Case Supervisor International, and Hubbard's personal auditor, David Mayo's opinion, when he wrote about "Clear" years after leaving Scientology.

As for OT, per its original definition, that, of course, was never attained.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Perhaps I should put the last couple of posts (above) in context. There was a time, during the early 1980s, when there was a schism in Scientology. Lots of Scientology's top "tech" people, and many of its top Mission (franchise) holders, and others, including notorious 1960s "squirrel" Jack Horner, and Nibs (L. Ron Hubbard Jr.), were talking. Most had published phone numbers where they could be reached.

Prior to that, communication, in Scientology, was very controlled and inhibited. In Scientology it still was, but now (in the USA) there was a loose group of people called the "Independent Field." It became possible to actually audit without someone looking over your shoulder. At the time, to me, since I already owned an e-meter, and had already audited, inside Scientology, it seemed like a reasonable first action, in the re-investigation of Scientology, would be to audit a whole bunch.

Anyway, I think you're just being informal in your use of "nirvana." It's kind of a messy area, since Buddhists don't even agree on what the word means.

Hubbard stated that there is no Nirvana, which he interpreted to mean the extinction of self. Once, as cited on this thread from early 1952, and, again, in the book Scientology 8-8008 from late 1952. And there may have been a few other occasions when he dismissed the idea of "Nirvana."

The top of the Grade Chart, during Scientology's period of greatest expansion, before the "Bridge" became a hamster wheel, was "Total Freedom" and "Total Power," which would be very un-Nirvana like.

Of course, that was old OT 8 (of the 1960s) which never actually existed, but was sold, and sat proudly at the top of the Grade Chart.


Here's a "pre OT" solo auditing.

As you can see, even though he's "Clear,"
he still has all sorts of icky "case."


Hubbard redefined "Clear" at least a dozen times, which, at first glance, may have appeared to have been an honest attempt at achieving a more desirable state of being, but, ultimately, became merely a marketing gimmick. That was certainly Class XII and former Case Supervisor International, and Hubbard's personal auditor, David Mayo's opinion, when he wrote about "Clear" years after leaving Scientology.

As for OT, per its original definition, that, of course, was never attained.
I look at the word Nirvana as rebirth from endless cycles of death. Isn't that what Hubbard promoted? He said just do auditing and training up the Bridge to Total Freedom and I can free you from the endless cycle of birth, living, dying, free from a body, but always coming back with full memory.

Nobody has come back with full memory of having lived a past life.
 

james087

Member
I look at the word Nirvana as rebirth from endless cycles of death. Isn't that what Hubbard promoted? He said just do auditing and training up the Bridge to Total Freedom and I can free you from the endless cycle of birth, living, dying, free from a body, but always coming back with full memory.

Nobody has come back with full memory of having lived a past life.

nir·va·na
noun
(in Buddhism) a transcendent state in which there is neither suffering, desire, nor sense of self, and the subject is released from the effects of karma and the cycle of death and rebirth. It represents the final goal of Buddhism.



I personally believe in reincarnation, but not the kind Hubbard described or found in a dictionary. As an example from a Buddhist monk: If you take a glass of water from a pond, pretend that glass of water is you. Now when you die you pour that water back into the pond. That is reincarnation. We're all part of something much bigger. (you're never going to get that exact glass of water back)
 
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Veda

Well-known member
I look at the word Nirvana as rebirth from endless cycles of death. Isn't that what Hubbard promoted? He said just do auditing and training up the Bridge to Total Freedom and I can free you from the endless cycle of birth, living, dying, free from a body, but always coming back with full memory.

Nobody has come back with full memory of having lived a past life.


Link to Hubbard on "Nirvana" from the book Scientology 8-8008.

Your description is not what Hubbard considered Nirvana. Click the above link, if you're curious, and do a find (press control & Nirvana) or just go to page 25.

Hubbard, as with Crowley, promised the ultimate ego trip. He called it Operating Thetan. It would have been a lot of fun and really cool if it had happened.

Other than PR statements, both Hubbard and Crowley regarded Gautama Buddha as a sissy and a weakling. Hubbard described Buddhism as "a covert effort to kill everybody off."

Crowley described the "Great Work" as the "raising of the whole man [including desires and the ego] to the power of infinity."

This is what Hubbard repackaged and sold.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
As I said before on here, I think Crowley was running his own case; he was trapped by his Plymouth Brethren upbringing and spent his whole life trying to rebel against it instead of developing the kind of awareness which would allow him to view it dispassionately (or compassionately).

If I'm right about that being Crowley's problem, what was Hubbard's?
 

james087

Member
As I said before on here, I think Crowley was running his own case; he was trapped by his Plymouth Brethren upbringing and spent his whole life trying to rebel against it instead of developing the kind of awareness which would allow him to view it dispassionately (or compassionately).

If I'm right about that being Crowley's problem, what was Hubbard's?
In my opinion Hubbard couldn't face his own reality. He invented his own and spread it to others so that they could do the same while also validating what he wanted to believe. (resulting in paranoid schizophrenia and bipolar)
 

james087

Member
Just a thoight which has occurred to me thouigh. T

was there anything you guys actually liked about Scientology
I still love study tech. (there's so munch of Scientology that I haven't explored) I'd love to know if anyone has found anything that was actually real and provides a benefit.
 
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Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
I still love study tech. (there's so munch of Scientology that I haven't explored) I'd love to know if anyone has found anything that was actually real and provides a benefit.
I am certain, if you aren't too far from an org, that there is a seat in the academy for you.

You can go there and get some auditing and go on course between sessions.

Why, you can even join staff.

Maybe you can make it all the way to the top of the bridge!!

You may even think that you have achieved nirvana!

You should go today!! What is stopping you? You can post of scientology facebook sites about how you love scientology.

I insist.

Was the original purpose of this thread

"Soooo was there anything you guys actually liked about Scientology?"

about asking others if there was anything they liked, or a forum for you to say what you like currently?
 

F.Bullbait

Wise Guy
Nirvana is a perfect blow. Don't route out, just blow! Ahhhhh................:)
 

james087

Member
I am certain, if you aren't too far from an org, that there is a seat in the academy for you.

You can go there and get some auditing and go on course between sessions.

Why, you can even join staff.

Maybe you can make it all the way to the top of the bridge!!

You may even think that you have achieved nirvana!

You should go today!! What is stopping you? You can post of scientology facebook sites about how you love scientology.

I insist.

Was the original purpose of this thread

"Soooo was there anything you guys actually liked about Scientology?"

about asking others if there was anything they liked, or a forum for you to say what you like currently?
Um I love Study tech because it addressed a life long problem I've had. Scientology certainly used it for their own agenda, but that doesn't mean the tech is inherently evil or bad. It's extremely useful and IMO should be taught in every school in the world.

The point of this thread was to ask the question, process your opinion, and reply. It was to have a discussion. Discussion is a 2 way street.
 
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Chuck J.

Election Fraud Has Consequences
Um I love Study tech because it addressed a life long problem I've had. Scientology certainly used it for their own agenda, but that doesn't mean the tech is inherently evil or bad. It's extremely useful and IMO should be taught in every school in the world.

The point of this thread was to ask the question, process your opinion, and reply. It was to have a discussion. Discussion is a 2 way street.
What you'll find as you go deeper down the rabbit hole is things like this: Study Tech was created by Charles Berner, not Hubbard. Check out the Sole Source Myth thread.

And at least up until the late 1800's or early 1900's looking up words and grammar were taught in school.
 
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james087

Member
What you'll find as you go deeper down the rabbit hole is things like this: Study Tech was created by Charles Berner, not Hubbard. Check out the Sole Source Myth thread.

And at least up until the late 1880's or early 1900's looking up words and grammar were taught in school.
Ya I first discover that In that post named OPENING PANDORA’S BOX .
"Ava and Charles Berner, professors of English discovered and developed much of the study technology we use, they had spent almost 40 years each in their research – research that had spanned many of the foremost educators down through time - we teach what they discovered in 3 weeks. "

I imagine this to be a common theme. Someone finds something useful and true within Scientology, and then finds out it didn't originate from LRH at all. I look forward to going through the Sole Source Myth thread. I hope to find something useful there. Thank you.

It's a total mystery to me why they stopped teaching "clearing words" in school.

 
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Riddick

I clap to no man
now there you go. And what about Hymn of Asia?

From that rhetoric poem book:

"Here was the epochal statement that, in one lifetime, one could strive to achieve a state of spiritual freedom from the endless cycle of death and rebirth and achieve spiritual independence of the flesh."

Isn't that the so called Bridge to Total Freedom? Turns out to be malarkey, especially the PDC's and a bunch of other lectures by Hubbard. Include Crowley in there too.

 
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Bill

Well-known member
Ya I first discover that In that post named OPENING PANDORA’S BOX .
"Ava and Charles Berner, professors of English discovered and developed much of the study technology we use, they had spent almost 40 years each in their research – research that had spanned many of the foremost educators down through time - we teach what they discovered in 3 weeks. "

I imagine this to be a common theme. Someone finds something useful and true within Scientology, and then finds out it didn't originate from LRH at all. I look forward to going through the Sole Source Myth thread. I hope to find something useful there. Thank you.

It's a total mystery to me why they stopped teaching "clearing words" in school.

The problem with Study Tech (and with everything else in Scientology) is that Hubbard takes some good idea (from someone else) and totally fucks it up. For Hubbard, everything has to be a chart, a scale, a formula, a process, a procedure -- something rote and cast in stone.

He completely ruined study tech. The basic concepts are quite good: Use a dictionary to understand the subject; if appropriate, study with the subject's mass; don't skip a gradient.

But Hubbard had to make it evil:
  • He made these barriers to study the ONLY reason a student might have trouble.
  • He made his rote procedures the ONLY solutions to those problems.
  • Under Hubbard's rules, any problems a student has are ONLY the student's fault.
  • The source material is declared ALWAYS good, ALWAYS correct, NEVER to be doubted or questioned.
  • The student may NOT consider if the subject is workable or not workable, may NOT look for ways to improve the subject.
This is great for indoctrination but is HORRIBLE for good study habits. Students are taught to accept without question. Students are taught to never think about the subject in workable terms: Why do it that way? Is it useful? Could it be better?

Learning those basic problems in study is very useful. Learning Hubbard's "solutions" is evil. I know some poor Scientologists who have become unable to learn, unable to study, afraid to even read the simplest things because of Hubbard's Study Tech. Evil.
 
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james087

Member
Bill you always have the greatest insights. Thank you. I definitely don't want students to not question what they are studying. It hurts me to know how much this subject has been perverted and used against humanity.
 
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