Soooo was there anything you guys actually liked about Scientology?

james087

Member
Just a general public pre-clear here. 4 years ago I did about 3 months of study, joined the church and then quit less than a month later.

Things I found useful:
As someone who formerly couldn't see his own emotions, I found Hubbard's whole "tone-scale" chart to be pretty useful.
I was formerly pretty illiterate, special-ed, so I found study tech to be "a godsend".
I currently can't really do self-analysis without immediately plummeting my emotions, so at the very least it increased my self awareness of my own suffering.
I felt the 1 free hour session of auditing I received had a lot of impact. My entire life I felt like I couldn't get angry. It was beyond me. But after that 1 session I was ready to take the chair I was sitting on and smash it into the ground. Oh mannn did I tear into the staff when they tried to stop me from leaving. Basically catharsis.

I'm currently reading Dianetics. I thought auditing with a partner would be a good experience? Thoughts?
 

Harold#1

A VERY STABLE SUPER GENIUS!!
Just a general public pre-clear here. 4 years ago I did about 3 months of study, joined the church and then quit less than a month later.

Things I found useful:
As someone who formerly couldn't see his own emotions, I found Hubbard's whole "tone-scale" chart to be pretty useful.
I was formerly pretty illiterate, special-ed, so I found study tech to be "a godsend".
I currently can't really do self-analysis without immediately plummeting my emotions, so at the very least it increased my self awareness of my own suffering.
I felt the 1 free hour session of auditing I received had a lot of impact. My entire life I felt like I couldn't get angry. It was beyond me. But after that 1 session I was ready to take the chair I was sitting on and smash it into the ground. Oh mannn did I tear into the staff when they tried to stop me from leaving. Basically catharsis.

I'm currently reading Dianetics. I thought auditing with a partner would be a good experience? Thoughts?
I like the original tone scale by Volney Matheson better:

This is an image of the Tone Scale - in relation to the TA knob of an E-meter (c) 1957 by Volney Matheson, the inventor of the e-meter:





The lure of the pseudoscientific vocabulary and promises of dianetics cannot but condemn thousands who are beginning to emerge from scientific illiteracy to a continuation of their susceptibility to word-magic and semantic hash.

S.I. HAYAKAWA 1951
 
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james087

Member
Oh cool. I had some inkling that the tone scale had a connection to the e-meter, but this just makes it plain obvious.

Also it clears up a big confusion I had about myself. I was self assessing myself as 1.1 even though it didn't make 100% since when really I was 1-X or in another image 5.0.

Thank you for sharing that with me.
 

pineapple

仮面の男
Hi @james087 . Welcome aboard.

First, congratulations on leaving CoS. I think that was a good decision.

I left scn in 1981 after spending 7 years in it, most of that on staff.

You say you're reading Dianetics. Have you reached the part yet where Hubbard describes what a clear is like? If you have, you know that according to Hubbard's description, a clear has almost superhuman abilities, multiplies 3-digit numbers in his head in seconds, etc.

Now, you were in scn for a few months, so maybe you met some people who were supposed to be clear. When I was in scn they were pretty plentiful.

Were any of the clears you met anything like what Hubbard describes in Dianetics? I never met any clears who were like that. You know why? Because there are none. And not just today. Back then too, when the book was written, there were no clears. People who were around back then have said so.

So if you think you might be able to audit yourself to clear the way Hubbard claims, don't bother. Thousands tried, and nobody ever made it. Oh, there are people who are supposed to be clear. They have a certificate, a piece of paper that says they're clear. But they're only clear on paper.

It sounds like you haven't done much reading about scn and Dianetics. Here are some books I'd recommend. I especially think you should check out Barefaced Messiah, by Russell Miller, and Inside Scn by Robert Kaufman. Dianetics In Limbo by Helen O'Brien was written by someone who was there from the very beginning and left in 1953.

If you left CoS you must have realized there were some things wrong with it, but you think there might still be something to the "tech" of scn. That's a pretty common attitude among people when they first leave CoS. But ask yourself, if the tech is so good, why is the church so screwed up? Why are there so many screwed up people in the church -- and many of those people are supposed to be clears and OT's? If real clears existed, would CoS be the way it is?
 

Harold#1

A VERY STABLE SUPER GENIUS!!
Oh cool. I had some inkling that the tone scale had a connection to the e-meter, but this just makes it plain obvious.

Also it clears up a big confusion I had about myself. I was self assessing myself as 1.1 even though it didn't make 100% since when really I was 1-X or in another image 5.0.

Thank you for sharing that with me.
I agree with this excerpt from an early review of Dianetics, I think Dianetics is garbage and both Matheson's and Hubbard's tone scales are amusing cartoons:

The lure of the pseudoscientific vocabulary and promises of dianetics cannot but condemn thousands who are beginning to emerge from scientific illiteracy to a continuation of their susceptibility to word-magic and semantic hash.

S.I. HAYAKAWA 1951
 

marra

Well-known member
Read some biographies of Hubbard or some stories about him from people who knew him personally. There are plenty of these stories on the internet. Ask yourself if anyone who knew Hubbard ever described him as having special powers apart from the ability to talk incessantly about things that didn't happen. If Dianetics or Scientology were something special then Hubbard should have become a super being. But he didn't.
 

james087

Member
Hi @james087 . Welcome aboard.


Thanks pineapple. Yes it was clear as day that the staff who were suppose to be "clear" .. were not. The person in charge was constantly questioning my reality and their own, the highest tone person there seemed to be in love with manipulation and control, one incredibly obese women at the reception just casually brings up the topic of having sex with animals and how someone with such thoughts needs auditing, etc. etc.

So although I have no delusions about Hubbard's claims being bogus, you are right in assuming that I'm hoping there is still some value that can be salvaged from the enormous landfill he left behind. He never sourced where he got his information so it is a bit difficult tracking down. So far I'm aware of Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, Aleister Crowley / Parsons / OTO, and now just today Volney Matheson.
 

pineapple

仮面の男
So although I have no delusions about Hubbard's claims being bogus, you are right in assuming that I'm hoping there is still some value that can be salvaged from the enormous landfill he left behind. He never sourced where he got his information so it is a bit difficult tracking down. So far I'm aware of Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, Aleister Crowley / Parsons / OTO, and now just today Volney Matheson.
It's mostly hypnosis, in my opinion.

Here's a post of mine in another thread dealing with this.
 

marra

Well-known member
Thanks pineapple. Yes it was clear as day that the staff who were suppose to be "clear" .. were not. The person in charge was constantly questioning my reality and their own, the highest tone person there seemed to be in love with manipulation and control, one incredibly obese women at the reception just casually brings up the topic of having sex with animals and how someone with such thoughts needs auditing, etc. etc.

So although I have no delusions about Hubbard's claims being bogus, you are right in assuming that I'm hoping there is still some value that can be salvaged from the enormous landfill he left behind. He never sourced where he got his information so it is a bit difficult tracking down. So far I'm aware of Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, Aleister Crowley / Parsons / OTO, and now just today Volney Matheson.
There are various posts on the old ESMB detailing where Hubbard got his ideas from. A couple of them are here:

Excellent TV Show

 

james087

Member
It's mostly hypnosis, in my opinion.

Here's a post of mine in another thread dealing with this.
Ah thanks. I haven't done much research on hypnotism. I'll watch that 2 hour video and let you know what I think.



There are various posts on the old ESMB detailing where Hubbard got his ideas from. A couple of them are here:

Excellent TV Show

Seems there are no working links for the video in that thread. Any idea of the name of it? Maybe I can find a copy of the video floating around if I google for it.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
While it was not always pleasant at the time, dealing with hysterical, verbally abusive or unreasonable management provided me with a lot of experience.

There is a current manager from a client's fortune 500 company that can be very unreasonable and has a tendency to just blurt out insults. Pretty much nobody other than me can handle this guy, I'm the only person that can talk him down. When asked by my superiors how do I do it, I just reply: "Oh well, I have some past job experience dealing with such crazy people" :D

In general, SO management experience is a good thing to have in a corporate real business setting. Everything seems like a slow-paced cakewalk.
 

james087

Member
The team of masters consisted of a former priest, 2 former rabbi’s, 2 former Buddhist monks, several ministers of other religions, 2 professors, 2 C.E.O of Fortune 500 companies, 2 writers, several teachers, several champion athletes, 2 actors, 2 fashion models and several top musicians.
This is an excellent read, thankyou.

"Scn had and presumably still has the potential to make a big difference in individual lives, when it's delivered with heart, and if it had been regarded as a gift instead of a commodity, if it had been treated with gratitude instead of voracious greed, if its staff and clientele were regarded as valued, irreplaceable immortal beings instead of as disposable slaves and marks, we could all have had professional lives, retirements, job satisfaction, and some time in the sun instead of the galleys and the mines."
 
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Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
I liked the time I had to stain a piece of furniture for the org. I got thoroughly high on the fumes. That was nice. Later I experienced such stoned times without the use of solvents. I figure it was the result of malnutrition and overwork at the org. I guess those drugless highs were nice also.

There seemed to be a feeling of adventure and it all felt all so romantic. It was like a 2nd childhood full of playacting except we believed it all. All this while we really should have been growing up to the facts of life. The realization meant the end of childhood. But at the time I suppose it was funzie, neato, keeno. I could have done without it, I think. The sooner you realize that life is tough the better I would think.

I liked the time I had an out of body experience. I was on staff at the time and malnourished and overworked. It was pretty cool but the only problem was that it further convinced me that Scientology worked and drew me further into the cult. So I guess that doesn't count either. It took me years before I realized that I was having an hallucination.

The one thing I like about it is I am now in my own way some sort of authority on Scientology, just like everyone here is in their own way some sort of authority on Scientology. I've never been an authority on anything before. I was there and experienced something that only a "select" group of people have gone through. I have a lot of empathy for any ex-cult members. So, I guess I can take some lame pride in that.

I can't think of much else. I was never a complete wacko when I was in the cult. The complete wackos that I remember happen to still be in the cult. I was just wacko enough. It was usually a kind of bad time that you tried to put a spin on and convince yourself otherwise. I was a typical cult member and it is pretty amazing what was pulled on me.
 

james087

Member
@Xenu Xenu Xenu

Thanks for sharing man. The cult's abuse on it's members is no joke. I'm feeling pretty lucky that they kicked me out after I shared how their E-Meter didn't seem to work on me because I told some pretty blatant lies to get in... (although it was kinda my plan to get them to kick me out because f#ck all work, no pay).
 

marra

Well-known member
Ah thanks. I haven't done much research on hypnotism. I'll watch that 2 hour video and let you know what I think.




Seems there are no working links for the video in that thread. Any idea of the name of it? Maybe I can find a copy of the video floating around if I google for it.
Sorry I don't know what the video was called. I posted the link because of the information in the thread, not specifically the video.
 

stratty

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Trouble was that the single mindedness of most of those ladies could be a little off putting at times.

But we tried..
I was involved in two spheres of activity in the mid/late sixties. Messing about in rock bands and working as staff. I got laid more times on staff. :D
 
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