False flag operations and fake personas

Karakorum

The most just, the most merciful, the most ethical
Well, I think this can officially become the "let's share all we know about OSA and CoS deception tactis and operations" thread.

So, the definition of grey and black disinformation:

  • Black propaganda, aka black disinfo is from a source claiming to be another source. So for example, a piece of text about Hubbard being admitted as a blood brother is being attributed to a representative body of the blackfoot tribe, while the real source is just this one single native American guy who happens to be a scientologist. That's black propaganda.
  • Grey propaganda. Its a source that remains unclear, unattributed or murky by design. So a piece of CoS text can claim: "Crime in Malaysia has dropped 42% in the last year", without saying where this info comes from. That's grey propaganda.
  • White propaganda. A source that openly and truthfully claims where it comes from. Example: CoS finds some sinister sounding document from the American Psychiatric Association. Then they re-publish it in some CoS magazine and claim it was written by the APA. That's white propaganda.
  • Tan propaganda. That's similar to black propaganda, but more nuanced. That's a source attributed to one scientology entity (usually for internal use) that nevertheless originated from a different scientology entity. For example: A document is published as a testimony of a well known scientology member, while in reality it was written by or dictated by OSA and the member just rubber-stamped it. That's tan disinfo.
So if you ever heard the term "black&tans" inside - no, it was not about the british post ww1 militias ;)


Active measures: This term refers to unconventional methods used by OSA, what would in military terms be seen as special operations. I do not have nor know the full list of active measures or their types etc.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
I'm sorry, but that it not at all what I asked for.

1. That's fragmentary OSA docs from 1991. And the contents has things like HCOPL from the 60s and 70s, some of that I even recognize as having read way back inside. Vast majority is outdated Hubbard stuff, not recent or even relatively recent actual OSA operating doctrine. For example, you search this link for the word "internet" and you get 0 results. OSA has tactics and strateges for working with the internet - Tory already made that clear.
What is more: I just gave it a quick search for the few specialized OSA terms I was familiar with still at my old post. Terms like "active measures" or "grey propaganda" or just "grey" - again, got 0 results. If it doesn't even include definitions of grey disinfo or "active measures" then it is a very, very far cry from being a comprehensive, a decent source on OSA tactics.
Do you have a source that lists all "active measures" for example? Can you link to it?
2. Secondly, the "all process must be written down in a hat checksheet and followed exactly" - these sort of rules are for low level orgs. Inv doesn't function like that, CLO does not function like that. I have no reason to believe that OSA Int functioned like that.
When I was inside we were working with some processes and procedures that were explicitly not written down. This, as far as I know, was frequent practice ever since Snow White fell to pieces. Some things are not written down not to risk a leak or extraction by outside parties.
Yep: CoS at a certain level sanctions "verbal tech" :D
3. I'm familiar with the various OSA docs that have already been available online for years, I even used some of it jokingly in my photo post here.
5. So, where is the actual application and examples of real OSA ops in practice? Why, nowhere, because it is just a checksheet. Which is exactly the problem. Can you please provide me with the details of that pedophilia coverup op that involved Julian?
I guess you probably can't because you were not in charge of that and people weren't reporting to you about it. But they were reporting to Mike. He would know.
4. Lastly, if you believe that all that the ex-head of OSA knows is in the that checksheet, then mazel tov :cool:
So if your aim was to convince me that there is nothing valuable left that Mike can share, then I duly report that you have sadly failed. Please feel free to try again.
Most people on the planet are not ex-scientologists who speak out against the church and had run-ins with OSA in the past. Yet some of us are just that.
Please do the math for me, because I obviously fail to see the point you are trying to make. What is the point of bringing up the fact that scientology is tiny in the context of this discussion?
/

"I'm sorry but that's not what I asked for."

LOL!


(note: See? I not only went "blue in the face", I additionally went blue in the font at no additional cost!)

Apparently people like IL2L have CI and are not following the command channel and complying with senior's orders!

Karakorum incessantly demands data for his investigation into Mike Rinder's crimes. Every day the same slimly innuendoes and "What Are Your Crimes!" accusations. Why just yesterday I was almost in shock when the Infallible Inquisitor Karak said this:


"Final note: I don't feel like going over the "Mike Rinder issue" again.........."

WOW, that reminded me of the moment Herr Miscavige jumped up on the stage and started repeatedly screaming "THE WAR IS OVER! THE WAR IS OVER! THE WAR IS OVER!" LOL. I thought, quite mistakenly that the Infallible Inquisitor had decided to finally stop spewing ugly unsubstantiated imputations vs Mike Rinder. Then, without even missing a single beat (in the same paragraph!) Karak just continued posting the same warped public sec check as if he never said "I don't feel like going over the Mike Rinder issue again".

"Final note, I don't feel like going over the Mike Rinder issue again......At the same time, I don't see Mike sharing with the ex-community much in the way of OSA tactics or info about OSA coverups of the worst abuses. Mike should be a source of the highest level, most detailed information about OSA and he's not sharing much of that, while much lower-level people like Tory seem to have shared all they knew. That bothers me a bit and is the reason I can't trust Mike 100%. . ."

Apparently Karak DOES feel like going over the Mike Rinder issue again. Again and again and again and again. Because, since that post yesterday The Infallible Inquisitor has continued non-stop with the same crusade to uncover some horribly damning "GOTCHA!" moment that will take down Mike Rinder once and for all.

Here is the cosmic joke in The Infallible Inquisitor's demands for data for his criminal investigation:

PUNCH LINE #1: It is now painfully obvious that despite all Karak's bragging about his investigation powers & skiils, he is not able to investigate and still has found nothing. Yet the investigator just "knows" that finding nothing does not absolve someone of the crime. It only means that their crimes have not been found yet, proving that their prey is far more devious and diabolical than predicted---such is their ability to masterfully hide their horrendous "overts" and "high crimes" and "suppressive acts".

PUNCH LINE #2: This one is my personal favorite because every time for the past few months that Karak demands data about Mike Rinder:


a. They are demanding the data from Ex-Scientologists on an Ex-Scientology website who have NO KNOWLEDGE OR CONNECTION TO MIKE RINDER IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. Karak would have made a great interrogator after WW2 to Sec Check Jews who had escaped from concentration camps: "I happen to know that you were inside a Nazi concentration camp so I demand to know all of Adolph Hitler's policies, programs, hidden agendas, secrets, withholds and crimes!!!"
b. Besides the obvious lunacy of demanding that people on this website cough up the data of Mike Rinder's alleged crimes, there is a far more hilarious punchline in this. WHY DOESN'T KARAK THE INVESTIGATOR SIMPLY ASK MIKE RINDER THESE QUESTIONS DIRECTLY? If the Grand Inquisitor is so good at inquisitions, why doesn't he have the simple skills required to post questions on Mike's website? Or, call him on the phone? Or e-mail him? Or send Mike a respectful letter. Or ask him for a short meeting to discuss it? Or create a blog on the subject and respectfully request that Mike add his knowledge, if he has any. Or why not create a VideoBlog and invite Mike on as a guest? Or why not create a viral hit TV series like Mike's "THE AFTERMATH" and make Mike a special honored guest? The joke is that Karak can't conduct himself in a way that would encourage extraordinarily successful whisteblowers like Mike to even respond. Because all the Infallible Inquisitor's efforts are not real communication, they are sharp jabs delivered from dark shadows---and directed to OTHER PEOPLE than Mike Rinder himself.
I fear that Karak the Supreme Sec-checker is like one of those Japanese soldiers who hid in the Philippine jungles for 40 years after the war was over, continuing to fight on! For reasons of deranged loyalty and inability to "come into present time" they failed to accept or even notice that the war was over. Karak is still deep in the jungle and still on his "investigation post" and still fighting a war that doesn't exist.

PRO TIP: Hey Karakorum, the war is over. Your team lost. 99% of the investigators all blew a long time ago. Besides , Mike Rinder does not need sec checking, that thuggery ended a long time ago too. Oh, and one more thing, Mike is not someone that rational people need to investigate and attack, because he's a war hero.


.
 
Last edited:

Churchill

Well-known member
/

"I'm sorry but that's not what I asked for."

LOL!


(note: See? I not only went "blue in the face", I additionally went blue in the font at no additional cost!)

Apparently people like IL2L have CI and are not following the command channel and complying with senior's orders!

Karakorum incessantly demands data for his investigation into Mike Rinder's crimes. Every day the same slimly innuendoes and "What Are Your Crimes!" accusations. Why just yesterday I was almost in shock when the Infallible Inquisitor Karak said this:


"Final note: I don't feel like going over the "Mike Rinder issue" again.........."

WOW, that reminded me of the moment Herr Miscavige jumped up on the stage and started repeatedly screaming "THE WAR IS OVER! THE WAR IS OVER! THE WAR IS OVER!" LOL. I thought, quite mistakenly that the Infallible Inquisitor had decided to finally stop spewing ugly unsubstantiated imputations vs Mike Rinder. Then, without even missing a single beat (in the same paragraph!) Karak just continued posting the same warped public sec check as if he never said "I don't feel like going over the Mike Rinder issue again".

"Final note, I don't feel like going over the Mike Rinder issue again......At the same time, I don't see Mike sharing with the ex-community much in the way of OSA tactics or info about OSA coverups of the worst abuses. Mike should be a source of the highest level, most detailed information about OSA and he's not sharing much of that, while much lower-level people like Tory seem to have shared all they knew. That bothers me a bit and is the reason I can't trust Mike 100%. . ."

Apparently Karak DOES feel like going over the Mike Rinder issue again. Again and again and again and again. Because, since that post yesterday The Infallible Inquisitor has continued non-stop with the same crusade to uncover some horribly damning "GOTCHA!" moment that will take down Mike Rinder once and for all.

Here is the cosmic joke in The Infallible Inquisitor's demands for data for his criminal investigation:

PUNCH LINE #1: It is now painfully obvious that despite all Karak's bragging about his investigation powers & skiils, he is not able to investigate and still has found nothing. Yet the investigator just "knows" that finding nothing does not absolve someone of the crime. It only means that their crimes have not been found yet, proving that their prey is far more devious and diabolical than predicted---such is their ability to masterfully hide their horrendous "overts" and "high crimes" and "suppressive acts".

PUNCH LINE #2: This one is my personal favorite because every time for the past few months that Karak demands data about Mike Rinder:


a. They are demanding the data from Ex-Scientologists on an Ex-Scientology website who have NO KNOWLEDGE OR CONNECTION TO MIKE RINDER IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. Karak would have made a great interrogator after WW2 to Sec Check Jews who had escaped from concentration camps: "I happen to know that you were inside a Nazi concentration camp so I demand to know all of Adolph Hitler's policies, programs, hidden agendas, secrets, withholds and crimes!!!"
b. Besides the obvious lunacy of demanding that people on this website cough up the data of Mike Rinder's alleged crimes, there is a far more hilarious punchline in this. WHY DOESN'T KARAK THE INVESTIGATOR SIMPLY ASK MIKE RINDER THESE QUESTIONS DIRECTLY? If the Grand Inquisitor is so good at inquisitions, why doesn't he have the simple skills required to post questions on Mike's website? Or, call him on the phone? Or e-mail him? Or send Mike a respectful letter. Or ask him for a short meeting to discuss it? Or create a blog on the subject and respectfully request that Mike add his knowledge, if he has any. Or why not create a VideoBlog and invite Mike on as a guest? Or why not create a viral hit TV series like Mike's "THE AFTERMATH" and make Mike a special honored guest? The joke is that Karak can't conduct himself in a way that would encourage extraordinarily successful whisteblowers like Mike to even respond. Because all the Infallible Inquisitor's efforts are not real communication, they are sharp jabs delivered from dark shadows---and directed to OTHER PEOPLE than Mike Rinder himself.
I fear that Karak the Supreme Sec-checker is like one of those Japanese soldiers who hid in the Philippine jungles for 40 years after the war was over, continuing to fight on! For reasons of deranged loyalty and inability to "come into present time" they failed to accept or even notice that the war was over. Karak is still deep in the jungle and still on his "investigation post" and still fighting a war that doesn't exist.

PRO TIP: Hey Karakorum, the war is over. Your team lost. 99% of the investigators all blew a long time ago. Besides , Mike Rinder does not need sec checking, that thuggery ended a long time ago too. Oh, and one more thing, Mike is not someone that rational people need to investigate and attack, because he's a war hero.


.
No rational ex-Scientologist is persuaded by Karakorum’s thinly veiled fair-gaming of Mike Rinder.
Leah and Mike provided three seasons of compelling stories of Scientology’s abuses and predations, often in excruciatingly heartbreaking detail, single handedly exposing the manipulative dishonesty of this cult, yet virtually the very first words out of Karakorum’s mouth questioned and cast doubt on Mike Rinder’s honesty and integrity.
This Is the behavior of a troll.
Or a very sick person.
 
Last edited:

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
So, the definition of grey and black disinformation:
Thank you for that. That's it?

With all due respect, you did not invent all that, so don't be offended when I say
that all the Hubbardian and OSA "deception tactics" seem shallow and tepid. It's
a worthless deep dive to get going on, I'm afraid. It's old crap. The world has moved
on. That tech has not worked, but rather backfired big time.

Any current top-flight books on Russian dezinformatsiya, CIA propaganda techniques,
NSA computer methods, and American political and press manipulation in the age
of social media will document and explain far superior methods to control the minds
of the masses. And investigate and know everything about their thoughts and feelings,
so they can be manipulated. OSA is so 70-80's. The world has moved on light years.

Thank you for answering though.

The COS and OSA hasn't even got one soul who will stand in front of a microphone
or TV camera to promote it's narrative or answer questions. They can't even get
out of the gate nowadays.

The Devil said this today:

"The war is over. Your team lost. .99% of the
investigators all blew a long time ago."

Re: Mike Rinder . . . one term comes to mind: "added inapplicable data."

Old news. No one cares. Nothing Mike says about the past will change anything.
No law enforcement organization cares. Doesn't matter in the least. It's all empty
talk and speculation, except in perhaps one mind.

Oh yeah, and Alanzo too, for sure.

What can I say? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Last edited:

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
Snipped and emphasis mine.

Thanks for all the understanding guys. I'm not saying you need to agree with anything I write: everyone has the right to call BS when you see it and I respect the fact that some consider some of my opinions to be BS. I'm also not saying you should trust me (or anyone else who does not post under her real name) with info you wouldn't share in public. Always stay safe!

At the same time, I'm glad nobody fell for Alanzo's "kiss of death" blog post
and that none of you accused me of being an operator sent by Marty Rathbun :thumbsup:
Because now that I think of it, that was probably the main idea behind his post.
It was the only idea behind his post, some would say he did well (and he will certainly be very pleased with himself).
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Snipped and emphasis mine.



It was the only idea behind his post, some would say he did well (and he will certainly be very pleased with himself).

I had an entirely different reading of Alanzo's endorsement of karak.

Why oh why would a Rinder/Remini hating troll (Alanzo) not LOVE someone on ESMB who is posting a never ending slow motion avalanche trying to discredit and dead-agent Rinder (and to a lesser degree, Leah)?

Naturally, it is difficult to guess what is in the diseased mind of a troll like Alanzo, but if I had to bet, it would be his way of creating a back-door "insurance policy" to protect karak from being challenged by posters or moderators. It's essentially the identical crusade he has been running for most of the last decade---that terrible, mean, wicked haters, bigots and other insane tribal savages are running the good people (like Alanzo and Rathbun) off the websites for "no reason"!

That's the best I can guess today. If I win, I am hoping later on for a framed certificate that validates my "STATE OF TOTAL KNOWINGNESS", lol!


ps: there is no other theory that makes sense-----unless Alanzo is TRYING to get Karak banned because he is lonely and trying to double his Blog's "LIKES" by adding one other commenter on his blog, besides himself. LOL

.

.
 
Last edited:

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
I had an entirely different reading of Alanzo's endorsement of karak.

Why oh why would a Rinder/Remini hating troll (Alanzo) not LOVE someone on ESMB who is posting a never ending slow motion avalanche trying to discredit and dead-agent Rinder (and to a lesser degree, Leah)?

Naturally, it is difficult to guess what is in the diseased mind of a troll like Alanzo, but if I had to bet, it would be his way of creating a back-door "insurance policy" to protect karak from being challenged by posters or moderators. It's essentially the identical crusade he has been running for most of the last decade---that terrible, mean, wicked haters, bigots and other insane tribal savages are running the good people (like Alanzo and Rathbun) off the websites for "no reason"!

That's the best I can guess today. If I win, I am hoping later on for a framed certificate that validates my "STATE OF TOTAL KNOWINGNESS", lol!


ps: there is no other theory that makes sense-----unless Alanzo is TRYING to get Karak banned because he is lonely and trying to double his Blog's "LIKES" by adding one other commenter on his blog, besides himself. LOL

.

.
I didn't say (or think) that his aim was to bring down Kara ... I remember their previous interaction on the old ESMB too. His aim was far more likely to have been at you and more generally at the rest of us on ESMBR. It looks to me like trouble making just for the sake of it. That's why I only highlighted the bits that I felt were pertinent.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
I had an entirely different reading of Alanzo's endorsement of karak.

Why oh why would a Rinder/Remini hating troll (Alanzo) not LOVE someone on ESMB who is posting a never ending slow motion avalanche trying to discredit and dead-agent Rinder (and to a lesser degree, Leah)?

Naturally, it is difficult to guess what is in the diseased mind of a troll like Alanzo, but if I had to bet, it would be his way of creating a back-door "insurance policy" to protect karak from being challenged by posters or moderators. It's essentially the identical crusade he has been running for most of the last decade---that terrible, mean, wicked haters, bigots and other insane tribal savages are people are running the good people (like Alanzo and Rathbun) off the websites for no reason. Well for a reason, actually, because they are evil.

That's the best I can guess today. If I win, I am hoping later on for a framed certificate that validates my "STATE OF TOTAL KNOWINGLESS", lol!

.
I didn't say (or think) that his aim was to bring down Kara ... I remember their previous interaction on the old ESMB too. His aim was far more likely to have been at you and more generally at the rest of us on ESMBR. It looks to me like trouble making just for the sake of it. That's why I only highlighted the bits that I felt were pertinent.

That makes sense. Thanks bud!
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
That said . . .

@Karakorum, just curious. Have the businesses in your city opened
yet or will you be on vacation for a bit longer? Wanting to know for
personal reasons. How much time I'll need to be allotting to read
your posts every day. I have full schedule every day and you and
@Kalle (not to mention HH) are apt to write some pretty long
posts on this thread, among others.
 

Karakorum

The most just, the most merciful, the most ethical
Leah and Mike provided three seasons of compelling stories of Scientology’s abuses and predations, often in excruciatingly heartbreaking detail, single handedly exposing the manipulative dishonesty of this cult, yet virtually the very first words out of Karakorum’s mouth questioned and cast doubt on Mike Rinder’s honesty and integrity.
I do not question Mike's "integrity" nor the show. I question his silence on the topic of OSA operations, since he is the utmost expert on that. This is not about the show at all. This is not about "integrity", this is about sharing information.

I think its disingenuous to suggest Mike "single handedly" exposed Scientology. He's been working very closely with others, Leah in particular. It is Leah that provided him with the aftermath show as a platform to speak on, not the other way around. I think Leah's role should be very clearly acknowledged and stressed, she was the driving force behind it (thanks Leah! :thumbsup:). Saying Mike did it single handedly is just not true.

Moreover, if Mike felt the OSA topics are too hermetic for the general public, or the show's producer for some reason didn't want that, then Mike had many other channels to speak on. He has also been running a very active blog, there are also people with youtube channels like C.Shelton, Aaron, Tory, Jon Atack... I see no reason why he could not speak on one of them. Especially since he already appeared on Aaron's channel and spoke about other things.
Frankly I would agree that there was no clear reason to have an Aftermath episode on OSA tactics, but I feel Mike had enough time and space to talk about it within the ex-community. I feel it would be great if he would have a long interview/podcast with J.Atack or C.Shelton on the subject of OSA.

This Is the behavior of a troll.
Or a very sick person.
I am voicing my opinion on why I cannot get myself to trust Mike in the same extent as I trust Aaron or Chris for example. It is a frank opinion of one individual.
I don't see you replying to any of my posts about any other given subject, but whenever I write "Mike Rinder" you jump out to attack me. Why are you making this single issue bigger than anything else? Why is it so important for you that every single ex-member give Mike his/her full trust? :eyeroll:

Thank you for that. That's it?
Yep!
As I mentioned initially "my knowledge on these is nowhere near "extensive" or complete, because it was something that was rather peripheral to my post. "

I'm nowhere near being an expert on OSA. If my knowledge on OSA ops wasn't this limited, I wouldn't need Mike's information, I would just make threads on this myself.


No law enforcement organization cares.
I entirely agree with your view on this. This is exactly the great problem - the american justice system and the police don't care.

 
Last edited:

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
I do not question Mike's "integrity" nor the show. I question his silence on the topic of OSA operations, since he is the utmost expert on that. This is not about the show at all.

If Mike felt the OSA topics are too hermetic for the general public, or the show's producer for some reason didn't want that, then Mike had many other channels to speak on. He has also been running a very active blog, there are also people with youtube channels like C.Shelton, Aaron, Tory, Jon Atack... I see no reason why he could not speak on one of them. Especially since he already appeared on Aaron's channel and spoke about other things.
Frankly I would agree that there was no clear reason to have an Aftermath episode on OSA tactics, but I feel Mike had enough time and space to talk about it within the ex-community. I feel it would be great if he would have a long interview/podcast with J.Atack or C.Shelton on the subject of OSA.
Seriously Kara ... it doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself ... Mike is no longer in a demanding, vitriolic, interfering cult and will do things as HE wants to do them.

His life.

His business.

Your life.

Your business.
 

Karakorum

The most just, the most merciful, the most ethical
Have the businesses in your city opened yet or will you be on vacation for a bit longer? Wanting to know for personal reasons. How much time I'll need to be allotting to read your posts every day.
You know, you do not have to read every single post on the forums if you really don't want to :D
Its not like you are getting paid for it... right? :bleh:

Seriously Kara ... it doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself ... Mike is no longer in a demanding, vitriolic, interfering cult and will do things as HE wants to do them.
Of course, Mike will do what he sees fit to do and his actions will shape my altitude towards him, that's only natural.

I think we are all going in circles on this topic. I've tried to reply to the posts of others and explained and clarified my position and arguments half a dozen times now or more. I am under the impression that this stopped being productive some time ago. Now further discussion of the issue is just generating drama, personal attacks, insults and also drawing the attention of third parties like Alanzo.

So that was my last word on the "Mike Rinder issue", it already got more attention than it was worth. I don't think anyone needs to fight and die on this hill. People can disagree or agree with me, I'm fine with both as long as no personal attacks and insults occur.
If someone really wants to ask me any more questions on this or talk further, feel free to send me a PM.

From this post on, I will in this thread discuss only general OSA tactics, issues, operations etc but nothing more about Mike. I will ignore any further posts or questions about Mike. This is nothing personal guys, but I just don't feel this is being productive in any way.
 
Last edited:

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
Of course, Mike will do what he sees fit to do and his actions will shape my altitude towards him, that's only natural.

I think we are all going in circles on this topic. I've tried to reply to the posts of others and explained and clarified my position and arguments half a dozen times now or more. I am under the impression that this stopped being productive some time ago. Now the discussion just causing disturbance, generating drama and drawing the attention of third parties like Alanzo.
So that was my last word on the "Mike Rinder issue", it already got more attention than it was worth. If someone REALLY wants more, feel free to send me a PM. F

From this post on, I will in this thread discuss only general OSA tactics, issues, operations etc but nothing more about Mike. I will ignore any further posts or questions about Mike. This is nothing personal guys, but I just don't feel this is being productive in any way.
It was never productive but it was your opinion and you have every right to it, it doesn't make you a troll in my eyes ... Alanzo was only ever trying to stir things up again, he chose to become an ESMB troll a long time ago and he was successful this time but in the end none of us are in a cult anymore, each of us will do as we see fit, trust whomever we wish and post whatever we want.

It's that simple.

:)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.
I do not question Mike's "integrity" nor the show. I question his silence on the topic of OSA operations, since he is the utmost expert on that. This is not about the show at all. This is not about "integrity", this is about sharing information.
Yeah, you mentioned that 200 times. Nobody cares. It's YOUR problem.

I think its disingenuous to suggest Mike "single handedly" exposed Scientology. He's been working very closely with others, Leah in particular. It is Leah that provided him with the aftermath show as a platform to speak on, not the other way around. I think Leah's role should be very clearly acknowledged and stressed, she was the driving force behind it (thanks Leah! :thumbsup:).
That post is laughably idiotic. You are lecturing one of THE AFTERMATH show's guests & participants (Churchill) that Leah was a principal and star of the show? LOL

Moreover, if Mike felt the OSA topics are too hermetic for the general public, or the show's producer for some reason didn't want that, then Mike had many other channels to speak on. He has also been running a very active blog, there are also people with youtube channels like C.Shelton, Aaron, Tory, Jon Atack... I see no reason why he could not speak on one of them. Especially since he already appeared on Aaron's channel and spoke about other things.
Are you under the clownishly delusional impression that Mike Rinder is your junior or that he is your paid employee or servant? If you compulsively need people to give orders to and dominate, go hire a bondage and discipline slave. You can even bring a clip board and play Ron's music in the background and pretend you are investigating them.

I feel Mike had enough time and space to talk about it within the ex-community.
Who cares what you "FEEL" about what Mike Rinder needs to do? Where did you get the corrupt idea that you owned people or desperately needed to make decisions for them?

I am voicing my opinion on why I cannot get myself to trust Mike in the same extent as I trust Aaron or Chris for example. It is a frank opinion of one individual.
If ESMB members were running the "drinking game" and had to take a shot every time you said you didn't trust Rinder, most of ESMB would have fatally OD'd and gone to target II by now.

I don't see you replying to any of my posts about any other given subject, but whenever I write "Mike Rinder" you jump out to attack me.
Best joke of the day. People are attacking YOU? LOL How about people are fed up with your non-stop attacks on Rinder. But, nice try with your amateurish reverse psychology. Didn't work (again).

Why are you making this single issue bigger than anything else? Why is it so important for you that every single ex-member give Mike his/her full trust?
Straw Man argument. Nobody ever said that every single ex-member needed to give Mike his/her full trust. You just made that up and it's really lame. You are the only person manufacturing these "trust" issues. See a shrink or something, nobody cares who you trust and don't trust. Especially when you can't give any evidence or proof other than your assertion that you are picking these things up in the theta universe. This message board is in the physical universe, get used to it. We call this place "reality".

.
 
Last edited:

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member

Kalle

troubleshooter
Even if I would have talked to him directly, it would be just verbal tech. :eyeroll:
OK - I get you

Hubbard was control-oriented and also had a fascination with secret services, the KGB and the CIA. That was one of his main inspirations . . .
:eyeroll:

Yeah, but LRH uttery failed to imagine HOW criminal the SECRET services of America, Israel, England & France would operate in a MAFIA-like fashion - which we call the DEEP STATE today - as they broke EACH & EVERY law - and did not respect ANY human rights - when they murdered Hubbard in New York in 1972 - undermined & took over his church - FAKED key-policys and key-technical Bulletins to screw up the tech - with the criminal goal to crash all stats & to kill or completely overwhelm staff & to disgust the public, so it would leave the church . . .
THIS SATANIC WAR IS CONTINUING TO THIS DAY - BUT THE REALITY IS HARD TO CONFRONT . . .

Does it count as being a "criminal"?
NO - ALL scientologists and all NON scientologists alike - are the victims of a global conspiracy of long duration.
These criminals BEHIND the scenes are the real PSYCHOPATH's - we will have to focus on, in the coming years - follow the money, and follow the 220 wars, that the US has started in only 200 short years of history . . .

:eyeroll:Enough said.
There is a simple but powerfull process called REACH & WITHDRAW.
As you were born into a scientolgy family - you were put into that group by your parents - and that's OK.
But one day, you will have to spread your wings - and fly on your own - and maybe you fly to another land & another life & another passion . . .
During my first hours of training to be an AUDITOR - I learned the BASICS, and the most important FACT is, that the TECH does NOT work - if you use it by anything else but, SELF-determination . . . !

Love

Kalle
 

Karakorum

The most just, the most merciful, the most ethical
Thats a lot of justification - for NOT knowing LRH, for NOT being able to differenciate between LRH himself, his original recordings, and the CIA-FAKE, thy are selling by pretending it would be LRH . . .
Well, to each his own. LRH wrote and taped so much that anyone can find something valuable if you spend enough time. Thing is: that's tons and tons of chaff you need to go through before you find those few pieces of corn. I don't think its worth it, there's better stuff out there that's not contaminated with this high-control-group poison.

Take a break from your childhood brain-wash, with all this overwhelming meaning & all these overwhelming authorities- and get REAL REALITY on life by following your heart, and YOUR HEART ONLY !
Well, if we go to the "gut-feeling", "heart-only" routes, I guess I would end up owning cats and planting fern gardens. Oh wait, I'm already doing that! :hysterical:

There is even a process called reach & withdraw - so if you're twenty - get out of this overwhelm for something like twenty years and search & discover ehat FREEDOM means for YOU, just for YOU . . . !
Well, "freedom from overwhelm" started when I stopped working 18 hour work days and all-nighters in the SO. SO is the pinnacle of overwhelm.
 

stratty

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
OK - I get you

:eyeroll:

Yeah, but LRH uttery failed to imagine HOW criminal the SECRET services of America, Israel, England & France would operate in a MAFIA-like fashion - which we call the DEEP STATE today - as they broke EACH & EVERY law - and did not respect ANY human rights - when they murdered Hubbard in New York in 1972 - undermined & took over his church - FAKED key-policys and key-technical Bulletins to screw up the tech - with the criminal goal to crash all stats & to kill or completely overwhelm staff & to disgust the public, so it would leave the church . . .
THIS SATANIC WAR IS CONTINUING TO THIS DAY - BUT THE REALITY IS HARD TO CONFRONT . . .



NO - ALL scientologists and all NON scientologists alike - are the victims of a global conspiracy of long duration.
These criminals BEHIND the scenes are the real PSYCHOPATH's - we will have to focus on, in the coming years - follow the money, and follow the 220 wars, that the US has started in only 200 short years of history . . .



There is a simple but powerfull process called REACH & WITHDRAW.
As you were born into a scientolgy family - you were put into that group by your parents - and that's OK.
But one day, you will have to spread your wings - and fly on your own - and maybe you fly to another land & another life & another passion . . .
During my first hours of training to be an AUDITOR - I learned the BASICS, and the most important FACT is, that the TECH does NOT work - if you use it by anything else but, SELF-determination . . . !

Love

Kalle
Oh jesus! You're back are you? :( Still trying to spread the word eh? If you only knew how sorry for you I am that you are still smitten with L. Ron Hubbard's con. I'm telling you now, you are simply wasting your time trying to find many true believers here or converting many doubters. To me you just look pathetic. Give it up mate, find something worthwhile to do with the rest of your life instead of wasting your time here doing that.

If you're lonely and need someone to talk to by all means stick around and try and make friends, but this scientology bollocks isn't going to get you very far here. In case you have failed to notice, this is an ex scientologists bulletin board.
 
Top