Active Agent of Scientology - Marty “Mark” Rathbun

[statpush]

It’s ok Statpush. I’ll can accept this inability to use logic and reason
Scientology probably audited it out

Oh, I don’t think you could type any slower

I think you did better when you were speaking in pictures.

 

[The Oracle]

I think you did better when you were speaking in pictures.

I bet you did.

Heh - I just read this post on Alanzo's blog. Very nice write up on rituals and gratitude to those who paved the way for you to leave Scientology, stay away and not get sucked back in.
STATPUSH wrote: Guest Post: "Rituals" by StatPush | AlanzosBlog.com
I am a creature of habit.
In the morning, I turn on the shower, go downstairs, fire-up the coffee machine, go back upstairs, shower, brush my teeth, get dressed for work using clothes laid out the night before. Monday through Friday I execute this routine with military precision.
It is my morning ritual.
It’s mine. I created it. I tweaked it, honed it, optimized it, to serve me. It has value to me, that’s why I do it. I have quite a few of these routines.
A scientologist may want to call this a circuit. But, I prefer ritual. A scientologist should know something about rituals, they’re everywhere in Scientology. The Model Session is pure ritual. Clearing a word, The Comm Formula, The Ethics Conditions…all behavior regularly and invariably followed. Standard Tech and KSW are all about how to properly perform the rituals of Scientology.
Thanks to my Catholic upbringing, I had some experience with rituals. My complaint with the Catholic church was that their rituals did not have an acceptable foundation. Scientology was very clever about its rituals. They all had a pseudo-scientific rationale behind them; making them seem less ritualistic and more technical.
So, after 10-20-30 years of heavy ritualistic living, you are shown the door (or you ran for the exit), either way – you’re out! Many found their way onto Anti-Scientology Community (ASC) blogs and forums, where they were greeted with open arms. Personally, I don’t know if I would have left, if it hadn’t been for Marty’s blog, Rinder’s blog, AlanzosBlog, Friends of LRH, Wise Old Goat, to name a few.
Reading these blogs became a daily ritual. No, it was more than that – it was an obsession. All of my free time was spent on the internet to read/listen/watch anything and everything that existed about Scientology.
Soon after leaving I was a regular on Mike and Marty’s blog. My new ritual.
Consider this: this ASC congregates around a web site(s), devotes attention, consumes the news and comments of the day, offers up their contribution to the virtual community with hope and anticipation that someone will respond to their posting. If one were lucky, the site host would respond = elation.
So why do all of this? Short answer, I got something out it. It had value to me.
Leaving the church can be unsettling. Things look very grim; some lose their family or their job. Instinctively you know you made the right decision, but a little encouragement doesn’t hurt. Daily revelations of tales of church abuse and wrongdoings was just what the doctor ordered.
So, this became my new ritual…and it was great.
Four years on and there is still value, but less of an appetite.
How many times can I relay my personal experience with IAS reges, or staff abuses, or illness, death and bankruptcy? Occasionally I will have an epiphany and put together a thoughtful post. But it has been less and less. I still find the need to expose the church for what it is, but it is less consuming.
Incidentally, all this recent brouhaha about Marty Rathbun…to me, the ASC expected, or maybe demanded, that he be the High Priest of the ASC. And for a time, it appeared he was. But, now he’s changed, just as I’ve changed. There is less need. It is difficult to justify the expenditure for the potential gain. Life can be hard enough.
I am eternally grateful to Mark Rathbun and Mike Rinder for what they’ve done. On a personal level, they have paid their “debt” to me for any wrongdoing. Just realize what their life must have been like. I would not trade places. Would you?
At the moment, I still perform the ASC ritual. What is different, is I know why.
– StatPush
It seems to me that some ex Scientologists lose it at some point. They go too far and then turn on the critics.
I mean, Alanzo was the same way as you were. Trying to help educate people so they don't go into Scientology. Or, helping people leave. All good. What happens that you get so bitter and attack critics of this evil cult? Oh - besides getting on the OSA payroll.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Sorry, I have to ask - have you read Marty's blog? And did you understand it?

.

I demand better trolling! LOL. You're really not good at this.

This is the exact same lame gimmick Alanzo tried to run on me and others for years. You somehow thought nobody would notice? Whatever questions he refused to answer--he would then "turn it around" and bark the identical question to the person who just busted him.

Sadly misinformed trolls like Alanzo think they are brilliantly using "JUDO" against their "ENEMIES". They keep doing this until they get banned a few times until their final permanent ban. They're really not good at this either.

PRO TIP: Try answering the question of how you think that Rathbun was helping blown Scientologists move beyond the "bullshit" of Scientology when he was charging them untold thousands of dollars to audit them up to Clear and then to C/S them through OT III. That IS the bullshit of Scientology. As I stated before, you are either trying to game readers here on ESMB or you never read Rathbun's blog.

FREE BONUS TIP: Your pathetic attempts at caustic repartee don't work because everyone here can read. Thus they can easily see that you are unable/unwilling to answer simple questions. The "tech" you are trying to use doesn't work. Try some other tech besides Ron's and Alanzo's, lest you also end up at Target II, LOL.
.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Sadly misinformed trolls like Alanzo think they are brilliantly using "JUDO" against their "ENEMIES."

Just a comment . . . now, I never can tell who is a troll and who isn't. I don't have refined "troll radar."
But I have seen various trolls show up thinking they're a big deal and ready to take down and
"ground and pound" bloody various members around here. What they don't know is that some of
the members here have 14-15 years of experience in the Scientology blogging octagon.

Next thing they know, they've stepped into this octagon with the Fedor Emelianenko of troll take-downs
and they're tapping out, one, two three, and back to the locker room in no time.

(If you don't know who Fedor Emelianenko is . . . he's on the Mt. Rushmore for MMA fighters.)

I've seen many trolls go down over the years . . . some permanently damaged. Careers over.

Now the problem is with the Masterson case going on and David Miscaviage and the COS in
the cross-hairs and getting lots of press, they're running short-handed. They may send in some
second-stringer trolls in the next few weeks, which is gonna be especially bad for these guys.

Friendly advice: Fellows, just go home. You don't know what you're in for. You don't need the
beatings. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

. . . Fedor Emelianenko (left)

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Just a comment . . . now, I never can tell who is a troll and who isn't. I don't have refined "troll radar."
But I have seen various trolls show up thinking they're a big deal and ready to take down and
"ground and pound" bloody various members around here. What they don't know is that some of
the members here have 14-15 years of experience in the Scientology blogging octagon.

Next thing they know, they've stepped into this octagon with the Fedor Emelianenko of troll take-downs
and they're tapping out, one, two three, and back to the locker room in no time.

(If you don't know who Fedor Emelianenko is . . . he's on the Mt. Rushmore for MMA fighters.)

I've seen many trolls go down over the years . . . some permanently damaged. Careers over.

Now the problem is with the Masterson case going on and David Miscaviage and the COS in
the cross-hairs and getting lots of press, they're running short-handed. They may send in some
second-stringer trolls in the next few weeks, which is gonna be especially bad for these guys.

Friendly advice: Fellows, just go home. You don't know what you're in for. You don't need the
beatings. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

. . . Fedor Emelianenko (left)

"The Scientology blogging octagon. . ." - IL2L

(LOL!)


"Ain't my fault dem fights be so short--dey ain't
got no ground game, dat's wut it is." - Latavius D. Hubbard



.​

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

and now a word from the world's greatest active MMA master
Khabib Nurmagomedov
Undisputed-Undefeated UFC Champion
(28-0 Record) - Always delivers what he promises--

"I going to maul dem!
I going to SMESH dem! - Khabib


REPORTER
Hey Khabib, we heard you have been
spending time on a website for ex-Scientologists.
Can you confirm or deny this?

KHABIB
Why I must confirm or deny?

REPORTER
So, can you comment on why
you have interest in an ex-scn website?
Why would you do that?

KHABIB
I try zuh tech. I pay crazy Rubles!
Za tech, it sucks.
So i go on site
to SMESH dem!

REPORTER
And did you smash them?

KHABIB
Why I need to SMESH dem? Zey
send me only trolls with white belts.
I zink dis is insult!!!


.​

 

[Veda]

Link to post about Alanzo explaining his M.O.


Link to the "You have zero effect" thread

 

[Karakorum]

When it comes to OSA agents, those obvious and otherwise, I suggest looking at my old post here.

Take that template apply it to the various online personas and forum members and do the math.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

I looked at your old post. Thought is was pretty good. Very well written, as usual.
I remember it. Something to think about.

Let me list the false flag personas that I can recall . . .

When you say recall, is this type of stuff from COS issues or some popular book
on spying and intelligence? If you can say. Just curious. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A lot of this can be very puerile and dumb. BUT if they can get someone act as one of these
personages who is a long time trusted member of the community, it can really do some damage.

Couple things. I've known of some cases of OSA people spending three to five years trying getting
embedded into a community -- with trust, only to make one mistake, one slip-up and be outed badly.
Or they can have a change of heart, a shift of loyalty, and out themselves. That happens, too. Seems
like an awful waste of time and people resources.

What damage? I don't know what damage they could possibly do in this day and age. And so much
is already visible about Hubbard and DM on the open Internet and airwaves.

If OSA is sending people to message boards, it's out of an overinflated idea about what they think
they can effect. A common "cause delusion" among Scios:

​

"We have a thousand people auditing on Solo Nots.​

We brought down the Berlin Wall. Yeah!"​

I say they have zero effect, except to scare people currently on staff or public on lines. This is not
the 90's Internet anymore and they're not chasing David Mayo around the old bulletin boards.

Alanzo was nothing more than an annoyance. Maybe a two-week vacation from the board for some
until his ultimate permanent banning(s).

Sketchy characters come around and everyone puts them on "ignore." They're toast. (See "most ignored"
for the list of names.)

 

[Karakorum]

View attachment 7037 I looked at your old post. Thought is was pretty good. Very well written, as usual.
I remember it. Something to think about.

When you say recall, is this type of stuff from COS issues or some popular book
on spying and intelligence. If you can say. Just curious. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Is this yet another post leading up to a: "Karakorum, please show your certificate of not being OSA!" request?

I've already wrote what were my misadventures, relations with OSA or sources of B2 knowledge in many posts across several different threads. For example: here, or here, here or even here, Do we need to have this same sort of talk again?

If after all this time you still think I may be OSA, then I guess there's nothing more I can say or do that would change your mind.

I say they have zero effect, except to scare people currently on staff or public on lines. This is not the 90's Internet anymore and they're not chasing David Mayo around the old bulletin boards.

I'd like this to be true, but I'm not sure.

One thing that I've seen is that when people who are still one foot inside or those who still believe in some part of the tech come to the forums, they often get instantly jumped on, attacked, mocked and chased away. Maybe I'm paranoid, but that felt like something OSA would to on purpose to keep people divided and disconnected (pardon the pun) from one another.

I think they might also be more active on facebook and social media than here.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Is this yet another post leading up to a: "Karakorum, please show your certificate of not being OSA!" request?

Oh, that's so hilarious.

When you bring up your false flag personas again, "I suggest looking at my old post here,"
and ask people to look at them, you open the door for more curiosity and questions. That's
all. Your write-up is so detailed and thorough. Never seen anything like it as a public Scio.

Really, I just wanted the title of the book you got all that stuff from, so I could order a copy
on Amazon and read up on how to identify and protect myself from trolls and provocateurs
better. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

One thing that I've seen is that when people who are still one foot inside or those who still believe in some part of the tech come to the forums, they often get instantly jumped on, attacked, mocked and chased away. Maybe I'm paranoid, but that felt like something OSA would to on purpose to keep people divided and disconnected (pardon the pun) from one another.

.
That's some cool insider OSA data!

So that would mean that the OSA trolls that come to the websites are not really OSA trolls? I think I am tracking now.

Wait, does that mean the people that expose mad-trolling OSA "mentals" like Alanzo are actually the real OSA trolls? Wow, amazing! OMG, I just had a hug cog that I am actually an OSA troll!

Hey, am I supposed to be turning my stats in to you each Thursday at 2? Naturally, I'm just joking because you already r-factored everyone that you are not OSA.

.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

I've known of some cases of OSA people spending three to five years trying getting embedded into a community -- with trust, only to make one mistake, one slip-up and be outed badly.

.
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I am going to have to call "bullshit" on that one.

I don't really think OSA would do that. First of all, 5 years is a long time and it's like totally off policy to allow DevT interruptions to a Scientologist's Bridge.

Besides that, going undercover with a so-called "pretext" sounds like you've been watching too many James Bond movies! LOL. It makes no sense that a Scientologist would run a secret black op like that and lie and trick everyone. That whole Fair Game thing was canceled decades ago!

So, like--come to present time or whatever!

.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

One thing that I've seen is that when people who are still one foot inside or those who still believe in some part of the tech come to the forums, they often get instantly jumped on, attacked, mocked and chased away.

Mis-perception.

My opinion:

People who come here with good spirit and are sincere in getting help or an opinion, generally get it.

People who come here to bust our chops or looking for a fight, generally get it.

Parable Of The Two Russian Villages A man who was traveling came upon a farmer working in his field and asked him what the people in the next village were like. The farmer asked "What were the people like in the last village you visited?" The man responded "They were kind, friendly, generous, great people." "You'll find the people in the next village are the same," said the farmer. Another man who was traveling to the same village came up to the same farmer somewhat later and asked him what the people in the next village were like. Again the farmer asked "What were the people like in the last village you visited?" The second man responded, "They were rude, unfriendly, dishonest people." "You'll find the people in the next village are the same," said the farmer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Karakorum]

When you bring up your false flag personas again, "I suggest looking at my old post here,"
and ask people to look at them, you open the door for more curiosity and questions.

Surprising how you call it "more curiosity" and yet you just bring up the same question over and over. You are gonna get the same answer, hence the links to the old posts.

Your write-up is so detailed and thorough. Never seen anything like it as a public Scio.

Ignorance is a tool used by the cult.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Surprising how you call it "more curiosity" and yet you just bring up the same question over and over.

Duly noted. Been anaten at times from breathing too much smoke all day. We have bad fires.

 

[The Oracle]

When it comes to OSA agents, those obvious and otherwise, I suggest looking at my old post here.

Take that template apply it to the various online personas and forum members and do the math.

This is good stuff. Thank you.

Let me list the false flag personas that I can recall (I'll use my own names for them):

• The Fool. This is a persona that will be stupid, obnoxious, over-the-top, use reject buttons etc. The purpose of this persona is to draw ire, contempt, anger and disbelief. This persona will then openly "support" a real critic, especially in contentious matters. So for example if say Chris Shelton will say something controversial, "the fool" would instantly jump to support Chris's opinion. Thus giving an impression of: "If the fool supports Chris, then Chris must be wrong". Real life examples would be the KKK supporting any political candidates. Its the "kiss of death" tactic.
• The divider. This persona will post controversial topics, trying to draw real critics in and then play them against one another. This is the Hubbardian "3rd party" tactic. An example would be posting very controversial things about Hubbard and the tech with the aim of dividing "independent scientologists" from "atheistic critics". Or he can post things unrelated to scientology - for example post controversial political issues to have critics argue with one another over US politics. The more divided the critic community is, the easier it is to deal with. Also, critics busy arguing with one another are not criticizing the church. Its designed to draw resources and distract.
• The white elephant herder. A persona designed to draw confidence, sympathy and trust. This persona will then advocate certain ideas or projects (the "white elephant") that on first glance seem like real good ways to strike at the cult, but in reality are harmless. They will nevertheless draw the money, attention, time and effort of critics. The more real critics that pick up this project, the better for the cult. I have a suspicion the "Where is Shelly / Free Shelly" issue might be a white elephant.
• The aggressor. The persona is there to incite critics to do illegal or generally frowned-upon things ostensibly against the church. This way the church will then "expose" the "nefarious" actions of critics, or win lawsuits and get people in jail or get them to pay fines. I suspect the anonymous members who were convicted for a DDOS attack on the church fell victim to this false flag op. The goal is of course black PR and exposing people to lawsuits and the justice system.
• The obvious target. A persona that behaves openly in ways that look like an OSA agent would. So real critics would say: "Ah-ha! That guys is OSA" and focus on this one, distracting them from the less obvious OSA personas. It can create a false sense of self-confidence: "We know how OSA works and can easily spot their lame attempts at infiltration".
• The inquisitor. Like the white elephant herder, this persona is constructed in a way to earn people's trust (through knowledge, friendliness, humor etc), but will at some point be used to "expose" real critics as OSA agents. This sows division, discontent, confusion and paranoia among real critics. This is probably the most dangerous false flag persona, if used skilfully.
• All of the above can be used to feed disinformation and add to the chaos, mess, division and mayhem in the critic community.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

This is good stuff. Thank you.

Let me list the false flag personas that I can recall (I'll use my own names for them):

• The Fool. This is a persona that will be stupid, obnoxious, over-the-top, use reject buttons etc. The purpose of this persona is to draw ire, contempt, anger and disbelief. This persona will then openly "support" a real critic, especially in contentious matters. So for example if say Chris Shelton will say something controversial, "the fool" would instantly jump to support Chris's opinion. Thus giving an impression of: "If the fool supports Chris, then Chris must be wrong". Real life examples would be the KKK supporting any political candidates. Its the "kiss of death" tactic.
• The divider. This persona will post controversial topics, trying to draw real critics in and then play them against one another. This is the Hubbardian "3rd party" tactic. An example would be posting very controversial things about Hubbard and the tech with the aim of dividing "independent scientologists" from "atheistic critics". Or he can post things unrelated to scientology - for example post controversial political issues to have critics argue with one another over US politics. The more divided the critic community is, the easier it is to deal with. Also, critics busy arguing with one another are not criticizing the church. Its designed to draw resources and distract.
• The white elephant herder. A persona designed to draw confidence, sympathy and trust. This persona will then advocate certain ideas or projects (the "white elephant") that on first glance seem like real good ways to strike at the cult, but in reality are harmless. They will nevertheless draw the money, attention, time and effort of critics. The more real critics that pick up this project, the better for the cult. I have a suspicion the "Where is Shelly / Free Shelly" issue might be a white elephant.
• The aggressor. The persona is there to incite critics to do illegal or generally frowned-upon things ostensibly against the church. This way the church will then "expose" the "nefarious" actions of critics, or win lawsuits and get people in jail or get them to pay fines. I suspect the anonymous members who were convicted for a DDOS attack on the church fell victim to this false flag op. The goal is of course black PR and exposing people to lawsuits and the justice system.
• The obvious target. A persona that behaves openly in ways that look like an OSA agent would. So real critics would say: "Ah-ha! That guys is OSA" and focus on this one, distracting them from the less obvious OSA personas. It can create a false sense of self-confidence: "We know how OSA works and can easily spot their lame attempts at infiltration".
• The inquisitor. Like the white elephant herder, this persona is constructed in a way to earn people's trust (through knowledge, friendliness, humor etc), but will at some point be used to "expose" real critics as OSA agents. This sows division, discontent, confusion and paranoia among real critics. This is probably the most dangerous false flag persona, if used skilfully.
• All of the above can be used to feed disinformation and add to the chaos, mess, division and mayhem in the critic community.

Great categories and descriptions.

How about another?

• The Quicksander. The pretext persona opens any conversation with something that seems quite positive and productive, or at least compassionate. It quickly gains "likes", participation or back-patting agreement. After a short period of time, however, the blithe banter becomes backstabbing, hate and whatever else it takes to drown people in toxic cult quicksand. The goal of a Quicksander always ends in quicksand. Under this heading, there are sub-species of Quicksander such as:
  • The Philosopher. The telltale TELL is always the asking of questions, as if a legitimate Socratic discourse is under way. People's opinions are cynically solicited as if the Philosopher gives a damn. The answers are then (later) used against and to viciously attack the unsuspecting respondent. Much the same way the cult of Scn asks sec check questions which later can be used to Fair Game the PC that paid for the auditing.
  • The Defender. This synthesized persona quickly comes to the rescue of others who have allegedly been victimized by some evil category of being. This could be external to the thread, or within the thread itself. The "victims" being defended actually are very rarely, if ever, victims at all. By making such self-less and courageous stands against "evil", the Defender can quickly recruit useful idiots to help steer critics and any productive discussions into the deep end of the quicksand pool.
  • (etc...)

.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

How about another?

• The Quicksander . . .

Truly hilarious. I know what you're thinking <wink>.

 

[Karakorum]

Hmmm... there doesn't seem to have been a sighting of Benedict Rathbun in over 2 years now.