Let's talk about people who spent time in the hole...

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
I just checked Mike's list again - I don't see Elaine Segal. Was she in the hole or not?

EDIT: Jacqueline Kevenaar is listed as having "silently" left? Wow they allowed HER to leave? How is that possible, was she paid off?
Also, did Old Fritz also leave? I don't see him on the list of prisoners of the hole.
 
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ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Jacqueline Kevenaar . . . Wow they allowed HER to leave?
Pray tell. What's her significance? :coolwink:

I've heard from the grapevine instances of some of the more "important" people
being give six-figure salaries until they got on their feet in real world. Attempts
to secure their silences. Don't know if the hefty bribes were only for a year or
for several years. I've heard rumors about several escapees over the past half
dozen years.

If an organization can afford to walk away from a $20 million dollar mistake (see:
Scientology’s $20 million hole in the ground for just one example), certainly a
few years of a six-figure pay-off is chump change for them.

I like this thread.
 

Karen#1

Well-known member
Being bored at home due to the lockdown, I thought I'd try and find out the ages of some of the people who were/are in The Hole/whatever The Hole eventually morphed into. Through some Googling, I managed to find the following (note: these are mostly educated guesses based on court declarations and so on):

Jenny Linson - 54 (born 1965/66?)
Marc Yager - 57 (born 1963?)
Russ Bellin - 60 (born 1959/60)
Ray Mithoff - 68 (born 1951?)
Wendell Reynolds - 71 (born 1948?)
Mark Ingber - 73 (born 1946/7)
Norman Starkey - 76 (born 1943?)
Heber Jentzsch - 84 (born 1935)

There is also a website I found (one of those background check sites) that has details of many SO/ex-SO people's ages and addresses; I won't link to it as it shows the current home addresses of some ex-SO people, and I don't particularly wish to invade anyone's privacy.

Anyway, the reason I point this out is to show just how old many of these people are, and how they're still being controlled at their ages, when they should be enjoying retirement and taking it easy - not still being slave driven by Miscavige and marched everywhere by his minions.

Good work PartTimeSP !

Tony Ortega did a helpful write up as well

 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
I tried to recall this part and now I seem to remember the last name "Delderfield " come up more than just her.
Old family in Scientology. Worked with LRH. Name appears in many older publications.
"In the Scientology Publications world, Ken Delderfield and his wife Rosemary had arrived with orders from Ron to make Policy Letters and Bulletins into books. This was a very large job – when I had worked in Mimeo Saint Hill (around '65) there had been about 3,000 pages of these issues (the stencils for which I had to get into order) and Ron had continued writing since then. It was expected that this would be done in the framework of Pubs Org but (as I heard the story) Ken Delderfield and the then Commanding Officer of Pubs Org could not come to an agreement for that."​
I guess that just goes to show how crazy Int base was. The investigator and the investigated end up locked in the same jail. Its like the french revolution "Robespierre executing the executioner of Paris":
:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:
 
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Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Pray tell. What's her significance? :coolwink:

I've heard from the grapevine instances of some of the more "important" people
being give six-figure salaries until they got on their feet in real world. Attempts
to secure their silences. Don't know if the hefty bribes were only for a year or
for several years. I've heard rumors about several escapees over the past half
dozen years.

If an organization can afford to walk away from a $20 million dollar mistake (see:
Scientology’s $20 million hole in the ground for just one example), certainly a
few years of a six-figure pay-off is chump change for them.

I like this thread.
Well, being part of the Kevenaar family alone. The Kevenaars in some way were the "Adams family of Scientology" if you ask me. Jackie was the WDC OSA and held various other OSA functions. Old Fritz likewise was an OSA int bigwig.

These were big, scary people (well, at least to me. Maybe not so much to Mike or Marty). Jackie and Fritz would probably know where some of "the skeletons" are buried. That's why I find it so amazing that they would let Jackie go.

Now that I think of it... Jackie might have organized this whole thing. She probably obtained some compromats, smuggled them out somehow to a friend outside and gave then an ultimatum: "Let me go, or his stuff goes public".
I wouldn't put it past her.

When did she leave? Does anyone know?


Old family in Scientology. Worked with LRH. Name appears in many older publications.

"In the Scientology Publications world, Ken Delderfield and his wife Rosemary had arrived with orders from Ron to make Policy Letters and Bulletins into books. This was a very large job – when I had worked in Mimeo Saint Hill (around '65) there had been about 3,000 pages of these issues (the stencils for which I had to get into order) and Ron had continued writing since then. It was expected that this would be done in the framework of Pubs Org but (as I heard the story) Ken Delderfield and the then Commanding Officer of Pubs Org could not come to an agreement for that."
Source
Thanks!
 
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Pray tell. What's her significance? :coolwink:

I've heard from the grapevine instances of some of the more "important" people
being give six-figure salaries until they got on their feet in real world. Attempts
to secure their silences. Don't know if the hefty bribes were only for a year or
for several years. I've heard rumors about several escapees over the past half
dozen years.

If an organization can afford to walk away from a $20 million dollar mistake (see:
Scientology’s $20 million hole in the ground for just one example), certainly a
few years of a six-figure pay-off is chump change for them.

I like this thread.
AIUI, in some cases the bribes have been ongoing for several years. For example, one former very senior executive (who also did time in The Hole, where she was one of its 'leaders') is allegedly paid $150k/year to keep quiet.

Well, being part of the Kevenaar family alone. The Kevenaars in some way were the "Adams family of Scientology" if you ask me. Jackie was the WDC OSA and held various other OSA functions. Old Fritz likewise was an OSA int bigwig.

These were big, scary people (well, at least to me. Maybe not so much to Mike or Marty). Jackie and Fritz would probably know where some of "the skeletons" are buried. That's why I find it so amazing that they would let Jackie go.

Now that I think of it... Jackie might have organized this whole thing. She probably obtained some compromats, smuggled them out somehow to a friend outside and gave then an ultimatum: "Let me go, or his stuff goes public".
I wouldn't put it past her.

When did she leave? Does anyone know?



Thanks!
Not sure how relevant this is, but Jacqueline's son, Jasja Barendsen, is a registered sex offender who spent a few years in prison for soliciting sex with a minor:

More Disconnection Hypocrisy

FDLE - Sexual Offender and Predator System
 
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Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Fritz Kevenaar Has been the head of the OSA Internet Unit for some 25 years. They have a large team monitoring and filing.
He married Donatella who is in Intelligence "INVEST Unit"
View attachment 3680
Thanks for the info Karen, I had a hunch he would be still in. I don't think Fritz will ever leave, unless DM would kick him out.
Also... the Sea Org carousel of rotating marriages. How very ethical. :moodswing:

Would you know if Billy Yaude is still inside? Is he alive?
 

Chuck J.

Election Fraud Has Consequences
I just checked Mike's list again - I don't see Elaine Segal. Was she in the hole or not?

EDIT: Jacqueline Kevenaar is listed as having "silently" left? Wow they allowed HER to leave? How is that possible, was she paid off?
Also, did Old Fritz also leave? I don't see him on the list of prisoners of the hole.
Elaine Segal. Wow. There's a name I remember.
Picked her up from LAX. Her husband Rik insisted on going with me. Evidently they hadn't seen each other in months, or for close to a year! I thought it was cute that she sat on his lap in front seat on the way back, he couldn't keep his hands off her. Seemed like nice people. Very normal. I never met her again, Rik was always very pleasant to me the short time he was around INCOMM. My condolences if they wasted decades of their lives in the cult. Especially if she was in the hole.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Fritz Kevenaar Has been the head of the OSA Internet Unit for some 25 years. They have a large team monitoring and filing.
How on earth does this "large team" monitor and read all the documented revelations about
Hubbard, especially the worst ones like LRH's attempted suicide in the fall of '85 and his
"assisted suicide" in January of '86, and not have the seeds of doubt planted and just leave.

I mean the people writing intelligently on these "ex blogs" are not stupid people. In fact,
most spent decades religiously paying and doing this stuff until they discovered the soul-
destroying truth about Hubbard and bailed.

How does this "large team" read all the stuff and square the circle in their minds and keep
the cognitive dissonance in check, if that's the right way to say it?

I was as brainwashed as anybody, but at one point I swallowed the red pill and could no longer
go along with deluding myself for my entire life. Two decades was enough. I had to salvage the
rest of my life before it was all over. Once I had the Internet at my disposal, I investigated things
pretty thoroughly and realized the error of my ways. Pre-Internet was a different story.

How do they sit there and do this monitoring without getting "infected" with the truth.

Could anyone explain? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


PS: The fact that not one Operating Thetan -- per the strict definition -- is walking the earth
or has ever walked the earth after 70 years should be a big "tell" to anyone and everyone.
 
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Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
How on earth does this "large team" monitor and read all the documented revelations about
Hubbard, especially the worst ones like LRH's attempted suicide in the fall of '85 and his
"assisted suicide" in January of '86, and not have the seeds of doubt planted and just leave.

I mean the people writing intelligently on these "ex blogs" are not stupid people. In fact,
most spent decades religiously paying and doing this stuff until they discovered the soul-
destroying truth about Hubbard and bailed.

How does this "large team" read all the stuff and square the circle in their minds and keep
the cognitive dissonance in check, if that's the right way to say it?

I was as brainwashed as anybody, but at one point I swallowed the red pill and could no longer
go along with deluding myself for my entire life. Two decades was enough. I had to salvage the
rest of my life before it was all over. Once I had the Internet at my disposal, I investigated things
pretty thoroughly and realized the error of my ways. Pre-Internet was a different story.

How do they sit there and do this monitoring without getting "infected" with the truth.

Could anyone explain? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've wondered about that as well. They were the "external threat" people, we were only the "internal threat" people, so I'm not sure how much my own experiences can be extrapolated onto them.

But the main thing for me was that even having access to the net (there was some CoS security software installed, but one could get around it), looking for old stuff on Hubbard wouldn't interest me one bit back then. I was very, very busy, worked very long hours and cared only about my cases aging, my stats, my team, not getting traded to flag or being sent to redo the EPF again.

Another point is that if you come with a mindset of: "These people are all enemies and supressives and backstabbers", it won't take much to convince you that they are not to be trusted. I myself walked some people through the whole ethics chain right down to them being declared. Some of them told me some things which in retrospect were real red flags. BUT because I knew they exaggerated or lied with other issues, I would quickly jump to the conclusion that they lie about everything.
Black-and-white thinking and Polyanna effect 101
 

Karen#1

Well-known member
Sample of Dark OSA Ops Program created by Frtiz Kevenaar and revealed by Marty Rathbun

 

Karen#1

Well-known member
How on earth does this "large team" monitor and read all the documented revelations about
Hubbard, especially the worst ones like LRH's attempted suicide in the fall of '85 and his
"assisted suicide" in January of '86, and not have the seeds of doubt planted and just leave.

I mean the people writing intelligently on these "ex blogs" are not stupid people. In fact,
most spent decades religiously paying and doing this stuff until they discovered the soul-
destroying truth about Hubbard and bailed.

How does this "large team" read all the stuff and square the circle in their minds and keep
the cognitive dissonance in check, if that's the right way to say it?

I was as brainwashed as anybody, but at one point I swallowed the red pill and could no longer
go along with deluding myself for my entire life. Two decades was enough. I had to salvage the
rest of my life before it was all over. Once I had the Internet at my disposal, I investigated things
pretty thoroughly and realized the error of my ways. Pre-Internet was a different story.

How do they sit there and do this monitoring without getting "infected" with the truth.

Could anyone explain? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


PS: The fact that not one Operating Thetan -- per the strict definition -- is walking the earth
or has ever walked the earth after 70 years should be a big "tell" to anyone and everyone.

Answered in the phrase "Prison of Belief." What intrigued film maker Alex Gibney the most was how ordinary apparently *normal* people could be persuaded to do *unconscionable* acts because of BELIEF.

In Scientology, OSA staff have the belief that "It's the greatest good" so anything goes. The end justifies the means. So they will copy Guardian Office heinous acts but only more covertly so they won't get caught.

In the mind of the OSA sea org member they do not read these horror stories and digest them the way you and I do. The indoctrination is that only *Criminals* attack the cherch. So they see these reports as criminals with an axe to grind reporting on their beloved movement. If anything, it makes them *MORE* protective, more willing to sacrifice to protect their belief in "The only hope for mankind." I was there, I know how the held in belief can make you a warrior.

It is this same belief "held in" without any analytical judgement that makes Isis Jihadists.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
I was there, I know how the held in belief can make you a warrior.
It is this same belief "held in" without any analytical judgement that makes Isis Jihadists.
OK, that's hitting the nail a bit on the head. :thumbsup:

I've read that in The First Crusade (1096-1099), the Christian warriors' motto
was "deus vult" or "God wills it" and that was that. Likewise, for Nazi warriors in
World War II, it was "Gott mit uns" or "God with us" and that was that.

As you said, without any analytical judgement. So I can see the religious fervor
trend repeating throughout all of history if I look. A flaw in all of humanity going
back forever.

That was a pretty good explanation you gave, Karen. I can live with it.

Currently in our society, classical religion, as such, has been largely cast aside and
the new religion is politics. Similarly, religious political fervor rules the day on the
airwaves and blogs. Not much different than "deus vult," if you think about it.

I'll write a bit more from my personal experiences as a public at Flag that readers
might be interested in, later on in the day.
 

Karen#1

Well-known member
Thanks for the info Karen, I had a hunch he would be still in. I don't think Fritz will ever leave, unless DM would kick him out.
Also... the Sea Org carousel of rotating marriages. How very ethical. :moodswing:

Would you know if Billy Yaude is still inside? Is he alive?
Bill Yaude has been a long term OSA volunteer agent.
Believe it or not, he has been declared 3x.
Each time he did the full A to E and went back in.

Here is Bill Yaude Extreme right in white.
Tory shared a lot about him as he recruited her to work for OSA as a volunteer and pursued her in a chase sequence when she fled.

He had a long duration :::::ahem::::: crush on red headed Rhea Smith, OSA INT who gets up at 5am and downloads and copies *EVERYTHING* BillYaude.jpg for OSA files.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
,

I have seen the complete list of individuals who at one time or another were in "The Hole".

PRO TIP: All Scientologists were in "The Hole". Some knew it.

.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

posted by Karen#1
Fritz Kevenaar Has been the head of the

OSA Internet Unit for some 25 years.

- - - - -

He's angry. He's stupid. He's investigating the Internet.
He's going to find out who's been naughty and who's been nice.
He alone controls everyone's eternity!
And, he thinks the book 1984 is fiction.

.
 

Karen#1

Well-known member

And who is the King Pin ? The Head Honcho at OSA INT ?

For some 20 years it has been Linda Hamel. No data as to whether she is still currently CO OSA INT. Likely unless a medical condition arose.

Linda Hamel, "Commanding officer OSA INT". Formerly GO criminal. Still a criminal. She was the Program Ops of Snow White running the infiltrators into all the Government Offices and planting and embedding spies in these Government Offices.

The "Commanding Officer" OSA INT is a *hot* post. People's heads roll.

Within less than 6 short years, Commanding "officers" LOL who's head rolled were

Denise Brennan
Mike Sutter
Mike Rinder
Kurt Weiland

BUT Linda's head never rolls in spite of her boss Miscavige axing most Execs and purging heads of Orgs.

How strange. How odd. She never gets RPF'd, she never gets removed.
She is privy to where all the skeletons are buried...
Linda Hamel.OSAINT.jpg



 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Bill Yaude has been a long term OSA volunteer agent.
Believe it or not, he has been declared 3x.
Each time he did the full A to E and went back in.
I knew some of that, but did not know he did it 3 times. Eeek. :wow:

What's keeping him in? I always thought he would be the type of guy likely to defect at some point. Guess I overestimated him.
 
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