Active Agent of Scientology - Marty “Mark” Rathbun

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Am I on OSA's payroll?
Well I dunno pilgrim. Can I see your "certificate of not being OSA"? :cool:

The fact is, you know nothing of Marty's or Alanzo's "nice lifestyles" or how they earn a living, yet you pretend that you do. What does that make you? Honest? Credible?
There are people who were accused of being OSA with no real info behind it. There were those who might have been or might not have been OSA goons.

And then there's Marty. Either he is back in the fold, or he is receiving his orders straight from T2. Take your pick. :D
 

statpush

Member
Well I dunno pilgrim. Can I see your "certificate of not being OSA"? :cool:


There are people who were accused of being OSA with no real info behind it. There were those who might have been or might not have been OSA goons.

And then there's Marty. Either he is back in the fold, or he is receiving his orders straight from T2. Take your pick. :D
I concur. "You're OSA" is the Ex Community's SP Declare. Simply a way to ostracize people with different viewpoints.

Regarding Marty...I don't know what to think about Marty. I cannot explain the reasons why he has done what he has done. I am not pro-Marty, or anti-Marty. The jury's still out. But, I would not make a bold statement that he is an "OSA goon" without evidence, regardless of what Mike, Leah, Tony O, Karen or the fake Oracle says.
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
I concur. "You're OSA" is the Ex Community's SP Declare. Simply a way to ostracize people with different viewpoints.

Regarding Marty...I don't know what to think about Marty. I cannot explain the reasons why he has done what he has done. I am not pro-Marty, or anti-Marty. The jury's still out. But, I would not make a bold statement that he is an "OSA goon" without evidence, regardless of what Mike, Leah, Tony O, Karen or the fake Oracle says.
Given the "evidence" of the 20+ video clips he last did - what is your assessment of his agenda?
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Regarding Marty...I don't know what to think about Marty. I cannot explain the reasons why he has done what he has done. I am not pro-Marty, or anti-Marty. The jury's still out. But, I would not make a bold statement that he is an "OSA goon" without evidence, regardless of what Mike, Leah, Tony O, Karen or the fake Oracle says.
All I know is that he dropped a perfectly good lawsuit for no reason, at a point where his wife was clearly winning. He then stopped posting negative opinions about the church and started posting attacks on all sorts of people including Tony Ortega and Leah. He started saying things perfectly opposite to what he himself was saying for years.


Now, if he would have started saying bad things about Leah and Tony, but at the same time still kept criticizing Miscavige and the church in the same way as he always had... then I might have chalked it off to "he had a personal disagreement with Tony&Leah and is now just mad at them". There is plenty of bad blood in the ex-scn community at times. Mango vs Karen may serve as a neutral example.

But the fact that Marty has stopped posting damning opinions on Dave like he used to do - that convinces me that he is back in the fold. I see no other logical explanation.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
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statpush

Member
All I know is that he dropped a perfectly good lawsuit for no reason, at a point where his wife was clearly winning. He then stopped posting negative opinions about the church and started posting attacks on all sorts of people including Tony Ortega and Leah. He started saying things perfectly opposite to what he himself was saying for years.


Now, if he would have started saying bad things about Leah and Tony, but at the same time still kept criticizing Miscavige and the church in the same way as he always had... then I might have chalked it off to "he had a personal disagreement with Tony&Leah and is now just mad at them". There is plenty of bad blood in the ex-scn community at times. Mango vs Karen may serve as a neutral example.

But the fact that Marty has stopped posting damning opinions on Dave like he used to do - that convinces me that he is back in the fold. I see no other logical explanation.
Since I have never seen the actual lawsuit, I cannot claim it was a "perfectly good lawsuit" or that she was "clearly winning". We were told this by Tony Ortega. Even if I had the documentation, I would not be in a position to properly evaluate the soundness of the suit, since I am not a lawyer. In which case, I would have to rely on the legal expertise of another.

There was a point where Marty stopped the aggressive attack on DM, however, I would not automatically conclude that he was back in Scn. Maybe he just got sick of it (Scn + Anti-Scn)? I've gotten sick of it in the past and walked away (only to return). Nor do I feel that Marty has an obligation to continue publishing damning articles on Scn. From the onset of his blog, I thought he made his intention clear, that he wanted Exes to transcend their Scn experience, to continue their journey and not wallow in the chaos and bullshit that is Scn. So, why would anyone be surprised when he walked away?

If Marty were "back in the fold", why keep all of his old posts (criticizing Miscavige and the church) on his blog? No one has offered a reasonable explanation, instead it is simply ignored. Why?

You know, not everyone has to be on a "team".
 

statpush

Member
Given the "evidence" of the 20+ video clips he last did - what is your assessment of his agenda?
I agree, his videos are a conundrum. I do not have a reasonable explanation for them or what his intentions were. However, this is not a reason for me to invent scenarios to make sense of it. We all can speculate. But, that is simply speculation, and not an actuality.

What is my assessment of his agenda? We're now assuming he has an agenda...I don't know; and I don't think anyone else knows.

Maybe he just wanted OUT of the whole affair (Scn + Anti-Scn)?

Hey, here's a crazy idea - why doesn't someone just ask him?
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
If Marty were "back in the fold", why keep all of his old posts (criticizing Miscavige and the church) on his blog? No one has offered a reasonable explanation, instead it is simply ignored. Why?
You might want to listen to the hour-long podcast I linked above. It will answer
many if not all of your questions.

Regarding his blog and all the posts: his entire blog has been downloaded by several
people, using website download software. If he were to ever take it down, it would be
immediately recreated in full in several places on the Internet most likely. I suspect
he knows this. I had learned about this a few years ago.

It would probably get a new-found and greater notoriety and visibility than just leaving
it be.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
(......)
He had a foul body odor, teeth missing, hair disheveled and alone - no family. He was OT 8. I could tell the Staff did not want him sitting at my table. When he spoke, they tried to interrupt him and change the subject. My auditor sat at the table next to me. I whispered to her, what is wrong with that guy? She leaned over and told me that while yes, he is OT 8, you don't know where he started, as a Thetan.
:unsure:
.

A well-told classic tale of the journey to Scientology OZ, to meet the great and powerful wizard(s) of OTness.

"...you don't know where he started as a Thetan". Priceless! I never heard that one. I used to hear this one- - -

"...a cleared cannibal is still a cannibal". In the case of your stinky, toothless freaky Flag OT, perhaps yet another saying- - -

"...a cleared DB is still a DB". Or better yet- - -

"...a cleared being is still a preclear". And, perhaps the grand prize- - -

"...a homo novis OT is still a homo sapiens OT (Ordinary Tall-tale-teller)

.

.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Rather, it gave people a look at one of the most technically trained and processed OTs
on the planet. Not to mention one of the most admin trained people in existence. He
lived and breathed LRH tech close by and right under the shadow of Miscavige for about
25 years. He is what he is and people can see it for themselves.

Hubbard's "Ubermensch," the next step in human evolution, is actually Ubermarty for
all to see. I don't how else to think about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was expecting a lot more from people at the top of the bridge. We all were.

ILove2Lurk, do you recall the timeline comparison you made of Mike Rinder's views re. Hubbard from Dec 2012, compared with March 2014? It was quite illuminating.

The below linked post contains those quotes, plus a quote from Marty Rathbun from slightly before he became Miscavige's hand puppet. (Alanzo, who has a case of delayed Stockholm Syndrome or ?, chimes in also.)

At the top is a quote from Marty Rathbun from the time shortly before he was "handled" by Miscavige.

In the span of one year and four months, Mike Rinder had gone from insisting that Hubbard did not know (fill in a variety of despicable and/or criminal acts), to Hubbard knew (fill in the same).

In slightly over a year he, and Marty also, went from covering for Hubbard to no longer covering for Hubbard.

Both Rathbun and Mike Rinder both went through changes and phases.

The old Rathbun saw the light then was crushed thread, from original ESMB, was made into Hubbard's Modus Operandi thread.

There are at least four distinct and different Marty Rathbuns and three distinct and different Mike Rinders.

Mike Rinder broke free, and Marty seems to have also briefly, then was overwhelmed by the cult and its giant piggy bank.
 

Veda

Well-known member
-snip-

If Marty were "back in the fold", why keep all of his old posts (criticizing Miscavige and the church) on his blog? No one has offered a reasonable explanation, instead it is simply ignored. Why?

-snip-
He's not "back in the fold," he's "doing a Bernie," much as Alanzo is.

What does that mean? Years ago, there was someone known as "Bernie" was posed as a "reasonable critic." He job was to undermine real critics, while appearing to be also a critic of Scientology.

If old ESMB's search functions worked I'd find the relevant content and link it for you.

Scientology Inc. hires people. It also blackmails people.

It's not necessary to be "in the fold."
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
ILove2Lurk, do you recall the timeline comparison you made of Mike Rinder's views re. Hubbard from Dec 2012, compared with March 2014? It was quite illuminating.
I sure do remember. Very proud of my original detective work.
Thank you so much for the ack. :hattip:

The whole ESMB thread still holds up well: Snow White Redux . . . a smoking derringer?

I emailed Mike a page of deep and searching questions that I hope he'll cover in his current
podcast. Not to cast him in a bad light, but to give him a chance to explain what happened.
We are all owed that much.

He was on the ground when LRH died and the original '86 shore stories and lies were invented
by someone(s) to propel the COS into a decades-long, new era of financial fraud. Also, he must
have heard and seen more on the Apollo, while roaming around the Hubbard deck.

I asked the right questions. Let's see if he can reveal a bit more at this point.
 

The Oracle

Not the same Oracle from a decade ago
Calling bullshit on this, "The Oracle #2".

Am I on OSA's payroll? I live a comfortable lifestyle, no financial woes, successful career, etc. And I have expressed disagreements with ex-Scnists. So, obviously I've been bought by the cherch. By that logic, any Ex who is doing well in life and does not toe the party line - has been paid by the cherch.

Your post is an admission that you have squat to backup your accusations. For if you did, you would certainly state so. But, hey, as long as you have Total Certainty, is good enough for me - NOT. This makes you a blowhard. The fact is, you know nothing of Marty's or Alanzo's "nice lifestyles" or how they earn a living, yet you pretend that you do. What does that make you? Honest? Credible?

Your rhetoric is reminiscent of a hardcore Scnist. Complete Certainty, drawing spurious conclusions which are presented as "fact", never produces documentary evidence, full-blown attack mode. Why on earth would I believe you?

Some of us, on our journey out of Scn, have learned a few things...like don't believe everything someone tells you, don't jump to conclusions, beware of fanatical tribal narratives, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, be aware of confirmation bias, etc. Learning these things changes who you are, and prevents you from becoming someone's lapdog.

And while I'm here...why would you "hijack" an old ESMB handle? What was the reasoning behind that? Seems mighty suspicious to me.
:bong:
Wowzer!!
 

The Oracle

Not the same Oracle from a decade ago
.

A well-told classic tale of the journey to Scientology OZ, to meet the great and powerful wizard(s) of OTness.

"...you don't know where he started as a Thetan". Priceless! I never heard that one. I used to hear this one- - -

"...a cleared cannibal is still a cannibal". In the case of your stinky, toothless freaky Flag OT, perhaps yet another saying- - -

"...a cleared DB is still a DB". Or better yet- - -

"...a cleared being is still a preclear". And, perhaps the grand prize- - -

"...a homo novis OT is still a homo sapiens OT (Ordinary Tall-tale-teller)

.

.
That right there is very effective tech HelluvaHoax!
Hubbard's Laws of Chaos, Confusion and Commotion!!
Let's give a hand to Dr Hubbard for his tech.
 

The Oracle

Not the same Oracle from a decade ago
I agree, his videos are a conundrum. I do not have a reasonable explanation for them or what his intentions were. However, this is not a reason for me to invent scenarios to make sense of it. We all can speculate. But, that is simply speculation, and not an actuality.

What is my assessment of his agenda? We're now assuming he has an agenda...I don't know; and I don't think anyone else knows.

Maybe he just wanted OUT of the whole affair (Scn + Anti-Scn)?

Hey, here's a crazy idea - why doesn't someone just ask him?
I tried to ask him. He won't respond.
He is working for Scientology.
This is not rocket science. It's Scientology - the science of knowing how to know.
We know how bribed, extorted high ranking turncoats behave. 65 years of research.
The behavior of the high ranking turncoat Marty Rathbun is very predictable.
He is on Miscavige's payroll along with his sleaze bag wife.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

He's not "back in the fold," he's "doing a Bernie," much as Alanzo is.

posted by Veda
The below linked post contains those quotes, plus a quote from Marty Rathbun from slightly before he became Miscavige's hand puppet. (Alanzo, who has a case of delayed Stockholm Syndrome or ?, chimes in also.).
.

Alanzo is suffering from a very specific form and subset of Stockholm Syndrome.

Stuck-Hole Syndrome.

Those afflicted will DO/SAY anything to get out of the "hole", whether it is the Int Base Gulag known as "the hole" or whether it is outside the base---where non-staff Scientologists will DO/SAY anything to get out of the (financial) hole called bankruptcy.

The above is highly confidential cult-control technology that came out of Dr. Hubbard's hole-track research.

.
 
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Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
He had a foul body odor, teeth missing, hair disheveled and he was all alone - no family.
This was an OT 8? WTF????

I could tell the Staff did not want him sitting at my table. When he spoke, they tried to interrupt him and change the subject. My auditor sat at the table next to me. I whispered to her, what is wrong with that guy? She leaned over and told me that while yes, he is OT 8, you don't know where he started, as a Thetan.
He probably started out in quite better condition than he wound up at.

What you saw was the effect of spending years where your only focus was scraping together the money for your next 6 month check, while spending all your available time "in session", running out space cooties, leaving no time for any social life.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Since I have never seen the actual lawsuit, I cannot claim it was a "perfectly good lawsuit" or that she was "clearly winning". We were told this by Tony Ortega. Even if I had the documentation, I would not be in a position to properly evaluate the soundness of the suit, since I am not a lawyer. In which case, I would have to rely on the legal expertise of another.
Well, Ray is saying the same thing. Mike is saying the same thing. Some specific Scn legal moves had failed and the case was in full swing.

I've yet to see even one person involved in this case who ws saying that Monique was losing, at the same time each person involved including the lawyers says they were on their way to victory and overcame the greatest difficulty at that point.

That's my info - all who speak out confirm that they were winning. Marty on the other hand fell absolutely silent about the state of the lawsuit and his reason for dropping it. I smell a big fat rat.

This is not rocket science. It's Scientology - the science of knowing how to know.
Scientology is more like a Science of knowing how not to know:

- How not to know that the cult is shrinking
- How not to know that you are being shaken down for money all the time
- How not to know that IAS donations are out-exchange
- How not to know that SO members are being exploited
- How not to know that KSW is a form of totalitarian brainwashing
- How not to know that Davey is out-ethics
- How not to know that its all a con
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
deleted - will post on another thread
 

The Oracle

Not the same Oracle from a decade ago
.





.


Alanzo is suffering from a very specific form and subset of Stockholm Syndrome.

Stuck-Hole Syndrome.

Those afflicted will DO/SAY anything to get out of the "hole", whether it is the Int Base Gulag known as "the hole" or whether it is outside the base---where non-staff Scientologists will DO/SAY anything to get out of the (financial) hole called bankruptcy.

The above is highly confidential cult-control technology that came out of Dr. Hubbard's hole-track research.

.
"Hole Track Research"
Very clever and hilarious.
 
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