False flag operations and fake personas

LRH taught me how to be an enforcer for a high-control high-demand group. Thank you Ron!
WHEN & WHERE did you meet LRH - WHAT exactly did he teach you?
Can you show me PROOF - like a photograph you and LRH ?

OR DO YOU RELY ON FALSE ETHIC & FALSE TECH?

WHERE you cheated into believing - Ron was a criminal . . . ?

WHO told you so?

WHO pretended that FALSE DATA was LRH ?

Did you ever read, study & understand the Original KSW?

I told you, that from my research NOTHING AFTER 1972 WAS STANDARD ETHICS & STANDARD TECH!

Just FAKE - designed to create CHAOS - HERE is an example of HOW they do it in PT: (source. EX US SOLDIERS)

America is the world champion in creating high definition FAKE - they call it Hollywood - but you should NOT
confound it with REALITY!

And whenever american SECRET services need FAKE - they buy the best of the best criminals - and the world easily falls victim to this charade for unlimited POWER . . .
 
sympathy (for the devil) being lower than 0.

You're tooooooooooooooooo fast for me today . . .

Just this little observation of mine from working INSIDE the office of HAS Munich (he is a great friend until tody, his wife an Auditor from the GO back then), also the EO in there, Dir of Personel and me in there for almost one year)

We had 180 staff alltogether, and I remember ONE incident with tough ethics in maybe 10 month: A crazy man walked inside the org with a pistol in his hand, and someone was in PANIC. So the HAS got up, said: "let me handle this!" and went to meet that upset person, listened to his CHARGE, acknowledged that person in distress, promised to handle that cycle, and to keep him informed - and accompanied him out of the org peacefully . . .

I myself had exactly TWO problems in those ten month:
First was neglectance of my stat (letters out) which cost our POOR ORG a lot of money from ever more postage - as I was upstat every week - so one day I would mimeo a PL that said EXECS that stopped letters out were in treason - put a copy in all the in-baskets of all the execs & later that day the CO showed up in front of me and he was much taller than me (the only time in ten month, except for praising my highest ever once a week, together with all the other upstats . . .)
So he seemed that he was NOT pleased, WHEN THE Dir of comm put the CO in TREASON . . . ? And so he asked WHY? His name was Jens Bogvad, they called him a Garrison Missioner - and he asked me in the middle of the Org: What is the problem?" I answered that treasury would Q & A and I was really pissed, that I would have to JUSTIFY, that every week the postage would RISE . . . He tried to talk me into moderating my expansion - and in that very moment I exploded in ANGER and yelled at my CO,. that he would put himself in TREASON, by doing so - and he smiled at me, turned around and left . . .
From THAT day on I got my money every thursday at 13:5o - exept ONE single week, when I was late, and arrived only two or three minutes before Treasury closed officially at 2 PM. Treasury was already closed. Two minutes early!
I yelled across that door to open, they refused, and I walked through the closed wodden door by crushing it with my whole body . . .
They were in shock, I got the money, and ran off to the post office , , ,
Later that afternoon I fixed the door, and there was never ever any ehtics problem . . .
At that time - BEING UPSTAT - meant having ethics protection . . .

ALL THAT COMPLETELY CHANGED AROUND 1976 AND WAS TURNED UPSIDE DOWN

From my observation they simply changed from SUCCESS into HELL and the stats followed to extinction . . .

And 30 or so many years later I finally cognited - that the CIA had taken over that CHURCH - to defend that corrupted church of Satan, to keep their criminal MONOPOLY over this planet . . .
 
WHEN & WHERE did you meet LRH - WHAT exactly did he teach you?
Can you show me PROOF - like a photograph you and LRH ?
Even if I would have talked to him directly, it would be just verbal tech. Ron himself wrote this many times: Don't follow verbal tech, read the books and policy letters and follow those.
And to be honest, its all there. Ron wrote so much you can pick and choose and oh boy is there good enforcer stuff to choose from. He developed technology for everything. On the EPF, I realized he developed a technology for cleaning windows and brass :eyeroll:Enough said.

WHERE you cheated into believing - Ron was a criminal . . . ?
WHO told you so?
(snip)
I told you, that from my research NOTHING AFTER 1972 WAS STANDARD ETHICS & STANDARD TECH!
Hubbard was control-oriented and also had a fascination with secret services, the KGB and the CIA. That was one of his main inspirations behind creating the GO and also to shaping ethics into what it is. Down to using the e-meter as an interrogation tool. I've been there, done that.

Does it count as being a "criminal"? I dunno, but it certainly counts as being a control-obsessed guy who created a system of invigilation, espionage and enforcement in Scientology.

As in "who told me"... well nobody "told" me (Don't give me verbal tech!). Hubbard himself communicated it to me through his writing and lectures, I've also read and was trained on some of the B1 materials (the ones concerned with investigations - that was my post). Some of the B1 materials dated to the 60s, so that was written and/or authorized by Hubbard long before 1972.

Did you ever read, study & understand the Original KSW?
Yes. Like everyone in my generation - many, many, many times.
 
You're tooooooooooooooooo fast for me today . . .

Just this little observation of mine from working INSIDE the office of HAS Munich (he is a great friend until tody, his wife an Auditor from the GO back then), also the EO in there, Dir of Personel and me in there for almost one year)

We had 180 staff alltogether, and I remember ONE incident with tough ethics in maybe 10 month: A crazy man walked inside the org with a pistol in his hand, and someone was in PANIC. So the HAS got up, said: "let me handle this!" and went to meet that upset person, listened to his CHARGE, acknowledged that person in distress, promised to handle that cycle, and to keep him informed - and accompanied him out of the org peacefully . . .

I myself had exactly TWO problems in those ten month:
First was neglectance of my stat (letters out) which cost our POOR ORG a lot of money from ever more postage - as I was upstat every week - so one day I would mimeo a PL that said EXECS that stopped letters out were in treason - put a copy in all the in-baskets of all the execs & later that day the CO showed up in front of me and he was much taller than me (the only time in ten month, except for praising my highest ever once a week, together with all the other upstats . . .)
So he seemed that he was NOT pleased, WHEN THE Dir of comm put the CO in TREASON . . . ? And so he asked WHY? His name was Jens Bogvad, they called him a Garrison Missioner - and he asked me in the middle of the Org: What is the problem?" I answered that treasury would Q & A and I was really pissed, that I would have to JUSTIFY, that every week the postage would RISE . . . He tried to talk me into moderating my expansion - and in that very moment I exploded in ANGER and yelled at my CO,. that he would put himself in TREASON, by doing so - and he smiled at me, turned around and left . . .
From THAT day on I got my money every thursday at 13:5o - exept ONE single week, when I was late, and arrived only two or three minutes before Treasury closed officially at 2 PM. Treasury was already closed. Two minutes early!
I yelled across that door to open, they refused, and I walked through the closed wodden door by crushing it with my whole body . . .
They were in shock, I got the money, and ran off to the post office , , ,
Later that afternoon I fixed the door, and there was never ever any ehtics problem . . .
At that time - BEING UPSTAT - meant having ethics protection . . .

ALL THAT COMPLETELY CHANGED AROUND 1976 AND WAS TURNED UPSIDE DOWN

From my observation they simply changed from SUCCESS into HELL and the stats followed to extinction . . .

And 30 or so many years later I finally cognited - that the CIA had taken over that CHURCH - to defend that corrupted church of Satan, to keep their criminal MONOPOLY over this planet . . .

giphy.gif
 
That's a good question. I guess that is just how Scientology functions. They turn everything into a system and "philosophy", its part of Hubbard's organizational culture.

I think Mike is an adult and should be treated as such. I recognize all the good things he has done, but this does not cancel out his past. I treat Mike the same way as I would like to be treated myself. Me leaving the SO does not cancel the things I did in the SO and vice-versa. Same with Mike. All our actions stay with us and do not change with any new things we do. The past is the past. Atonement does not exist.

And to be clear: My previous posts are not so much about what Mike did in the past, rather they were about the things Mike is doing now with the knowledge he gained in the past.
Heh Karakorum: FYI - You are featured on Alanzo's Blog - an anti anti Scientologist who perhaps is back in Scientology???
Anyone care to chime in?
Here is the blog: A New Critic of Mike Rinder Emerges on ESMB
Any comment about what he is saying?
What is his problem with the anti-anti ?
Why does he spend so much energy attacking the anti's? He seems to have started a cult and is nattering about them instead of Scientology.
Strange and somewhat common phenomena when ex scientology members do something the anti anti does not like or working for OSA???
What do you think?
 
:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:



Here is the blog:
Footnote: Hannibal Lector does leave 7 cookies on your computer
and can conceivably capture your IP address, if that matters to you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Heh Karakorum: FYI - You are featured on Alanzo's Blog - an anti anti Scientologist who perhaps is back in Scientology???
Anyone care to chime in?
Here is the blog: A New Critic of Mike Rinder Emerges on ESMB

I don't really frequent Alanzo's blog, so I wasn't aware of anything that goes on there. I'm not used to people writing about me on websites that I'm not a part of. o_O

I'm gonna go and read it now and will come back to share my feedback. I think whatever I do now, I'm for certain going to get attacked as some sort of "Marty Rathbun collaborator", regardless if I reply to this or not. Its a "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

So I guess the best thing to do is just tackle the issue head on and discuss it.

EDIT: I've now read the Alazno post you linked to. Two things that stand out:
Alanzo's blog said:
Can she survive the chicken pecking she’s getting from those who are loyal to (and some receiving payments from) Karen de la Carriere & Jeffrey Augustine?
I'm not aware of being attacked by Karen or Jeffrey and I am not under the impression that the few people who criticized me (or just simply voiced different opinions) were in any way paid by Karen to do so.

My limited interactions with Karen have always been cordial and I'm not under the impression that we are in any way at odds with one another. @Karen#1 , feel free to correct me if I'm wrong :D

Alanzo's blog said:
How long before she is banned and discredited?
I'm also not aware of any attempts to have me banned. I know there are a few who are cross with me over the Mike Rinder issue and posted stuff aimed at discrediting me, but I fail to see a conspiracy (and I am a bit of paranoid person mind you).

So I think either:
  1. Alanzo is more paranoid than even I am.
  2. He is trying to maliciously sow dissent and act as the "Hubbardian 3P" trying to incite a conflict between me and Karen - a conflict that to the best of my knowledge does not exist and has no reason to exist.
  3. He knows that by "endorsing me" on his blog, he is actually damaging my reputation among most ex-scientologists. He's also drawing away from the initial focus of this thread (OSA tactics) and tries to derail it into some personal drama thing.
If it is point 3, then I will strive even harder to bring attention back on OSA tactics and will try to think of other threads about OSA that I can come up with. So my appeal is:

Let's be done with the personal drama, back to talking about the ways OSA operates. Because the only thing that is clear is that there is some covert effort aimed to stop us from discussing the original topic of this thread. Which is OSA.

Final note: I don't feel like going over the "Mike Rinder issue" again. I think you know my views, so just a short summary:

I like and support many things he did after he left (especially the aftermath foundation and his support for Mark Bunker and other critics). At the same time, I don't see Mike sharing with the ex-community much in the way of OSA tactics or info about OSA coverups of the worst abuses. Mike should be a source of the highest level, most detailed information about OSA and he's not sharing much of that, while much lower-level people like Tory seem to have shared all they knew. That bothers me a bit and is the reason I can't trust Mike 100%.

I would like to see this change and would love to have Mike make a podcast with other ex-OSA members that would be specifically about OSA and their tactics. I wouldn't mind Mike and Jon Atack having a podcast about the way OSA targets dissenters and critics - they would have great stuff to share from both sides of the wall and I think it would be an amazing show and a must-watch for all ex-scientologists.


I wanted to write this summary so to make things absolutely clear and prevent other parties from twisting my opinions into something they are not.
 
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Heh Karakorum: FYI - You are featured on Alanzo's Blog - an anti anti Scientologist who perhaps is back in Scientology???
Anyone care to chime in?
Here is the blog: A New Critic of Mike Rinder Emerges on ESMB
Any comment about what he is saying?
What is his problem with the anti-anti ?
Why does he spend so much energy attacking the anti's? He seems to have started a cult and is nattering about them instead of Scientology.
Strange and somewhat common phenomena when ex scientology members do something the anti anti does not like or working for OSA???
What do you think?
...and what the hell were you doing at Alanz-holes blog? Hmmmm? We're waiting?

 
:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:




Footnote: Hannibal Lector does leave 7 cookies on your computer
and can conceivably capture your IP address, if that matters to you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As if I would not have an antivirus system that blocks trackers and fail to have "do not accept cookies" settings used :LOL:

I'm more paranoid than people credit me for. Also, even if its an OSA site let them do their worst. If they doxx my real identity and post a hate website on me (or otherwise make my real identity known), they will be very sorry. Which I honestly think is they reason they haven't done it far.
 
...and what the hell were you doing at Alanz-holes blog? Hmmmm? We're waiting?

:modest:My bad....:sorry:
I have been disloyal to the group I apparently was pretending to be part of....
Off with my head
50 lashes with a wet noodle:smack:
How much money do I need to donate to get out of being an ethics particle in lower conditions?
Or can I do some cleaning at least? :vacuum::floor:
 
As if I would not have an antivirus system that blocks trackers and fail to have "do not accept cookies" settings used :LOL:

I'm more paranoid than people credit me for. Also, even if its an OSA site let them do their worst. If they doxx my real identity and post a hate website on me (or otherwise make my real identity known), they will be very sorry. Which I honestly think is they reason they haven't done it far.
From what I understand, unless David Miscavige is out to get you for leaving the group with big secrets of his crimes you may expose, you are pretty safe to move about the internet.
No one reads the hate sites, IMO, unless Scientology is trying to get family and friends to turn on you. That is the real reason they are up.
 
From what I understand, unless David Miscavige is out to get you for leaving the group with big secrets of his crimes you may expose, you are pretty safe to move about the internet.
No one reads the hate sites, IMO, unless Scientology is trying to get family and friends to turn on you. That is the real reason they are up.
I can be pretty open about it: I'm not as big as any of the Int base defectors. My family (well, those inside scientology) already turned against me and I couldn't care less. They really don't have much ammo to throw at me at this point. They sure as hell do not want to find themselves with a lawsuit - not in this country, that's a game they can't win.

If anyone is wondering: I've also not received any bribe offers from Dave, which I think is reflective of his current strategy of dealing with critics.

I honestly think scientology failed to crack the code behind the Karakorum moniker. If they did crack it, then it means they decided it is better for them to go along with the charade of pretending not to know who I am. Both results suit me fine. :D
 
yeah where is my cash?

You haven't banned her yet. I'd expect you get paid like the rest of us, once the deed is doen.

EDIT: Lamest blog post ever by Alanzo, nothing but an attempt to get some flames going after all the discrediting remarks against @Karakorum started to wane. :faceslap:
 
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READER WARNING: I always believed that if it's worth posting about, it's worth posting about without politically correct filters. Therefore sensitive readers are advised that the following contains content that may not be uptone and theta. readers are forewarned that the following may not be the social justice you are seeking.

Alanzo really loves and wants to validate Karakorum, LOL.

They apparently share targets-in-common such as Mike Rinder and Leah Remini. Naturally Alanzo (being the pathologically miserable and deranged troll that he is) really hates anyone that is successfully whistleblowing against the cult that he has described (here on ESMB) as "my religion" (i.e. Alanzo's religion). He never would answer or explain that and after he first started making that "admission" he began getting SERIAL BANNED for unhinged trolling attacks on anyone he could could not beat into submission and agreement with his crazed ideas about who the REAL enemy was. It was Ex-Scientologists who were successfully exposing the cult. That made him livid with endless hate and lies.

Karakorum made a bee-line right at Mike Rinder and Leah Remini, with bizarre unsupported innuendoes and nefarious insinuations. Karakorum never stopped making such accusations, and they are often embedded under a thin patina of scholarly concerns. Let's make it very simple with an example. Karakorum claimed that Leah's extraordinarily successful interviews on top internet blogs and tv shows (e.g. Joe Rogan's who has the #1 blog in the world, Larry King, et al) were actually HARMFUL. It was harming scientologists and scientology staff members by talking about how lavishly expensive Scientology's scam is---that was a terrible thing to do according to karakorum. It would prevent authorities from stopping Scientology's abuses and shutting them down! There is no explanation for such a ludicrous and clearly illogical claim, for the simple reason that WARNING POTENTIAL VICTIMS ABOUT THE COST OF SCIENTOLOGY WOULD PREVENT THEM FROM JOINING, which is the most effective way of "stopping the abuse" and "shutting them down!"

Karakorum has many odd amateurish theories about how to "shut Scientology down" but has never tried any of them. But we are assured that Karakorum is the expert who knows better than Leah/Mike how to reach vast numbers of viewers. The fact that THE AFTERMATH tv series was the most viewed and popular whistleblowing event in Scientology's 70 year history did not make Karakorum humbly admire and cheer their mega success. No, instead they were picked apart as doing doing the wrong thing (although occasionally sprinkling in some sugar here and there about something "good" that they did.

The bottom line is that Karakorum has done nothing while Mike and Leah have been inspirationally and statistically successful debunkers and whistleblowers. Yet that's not good and Mike needs to do so much more. That's not good and Leah needs to stop doing those interviews because she is not following. Karakorum's standard tech. It's a joke to listen to a do-nothing amateur sharply criticizing individuals that have YEARS of amazing success.

Even today's post by Karakorum starts like this. . .

Final note: I don't feel like going over the "Mike Rinder issue" again.

LOL!!!!!!!! Karakorum doesn't feel like talking about the Mike Rinder issue again but then, 1 millisecond later the same insinuation attack continues.

Final note: I don't feel like going over the "Mike Rinder issue" again..........I like and support many things he did after he left (especially the aftermath foundation and his support for Mark Bunker and other critics). At the same time, I don't see Mike sharing with the ex-community much in the way of OSA tactics or info about OSA coverups of the worst abuses. Mike should be a source of the highest level, most detailed information about OSA and he's not sharing much of that, while much lower-level people like Tory seem to have shared all they knew. That bothers me a bit and is the reason I can't trust Mike 100%. I would like to see this change and would love to have Mike make a podcast with other ex-OSA members that would be specifically about OSA and their tactics. I wouldn't mind Mike and Jon Atack having a podcast about the way OSA targets dissenters and critics - they would have great stuff to share from both sides of the wall and I think it would be an amazing show and a must-watch for all ex-scientologists.

Karakorum again insinuates that Rinder has "withholds" and refuses to get them off. Let's all gather in a mob circle around Mike and stridently chant: "WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES? WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?!"

Karakorum would "like to see this change" so that Rinder was running a show on OSA instead of the sensationally successful Aftermath forum. What brilliant advice to harp on Rinder to "CHANGE" what he is doing so that the broadcast is no longer doing shows that attract millions of viewers. No, Karakorum wants him to change that and only do shows about OSA, which has an audience of maybe 5 people in the world, one of which is Karakorum. The general public is not only NOT INTERESTED in OSA, they don't even know what OSA is. However the broad public LOVES to hear and watch stories of what OSA does against innocent victims, which is exactly what THE AFTERMATH was.

In my view, one's personal opinions and crusades have to be quite off the mark or even deranged to be celebrated by someone of the Alanzo/Rathbun attack group trying to run non-stop attacks against successful whistleblowers.

I have no knowledge why Karakorum focuses so heavily on attacking the most successful Scientology critics. A reasonable question is WHO ELSE ATTACKS THOSE SAME PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET?

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I would like to see this change and would love to have Mike make a podcast with other ex-OSA members that would be specifically about OSA and their tactics.

I would like to see that too. It is not unreasonable to want such a thing. Doesn't mean it will happen. And if it doesn't happen it doesn't mean there is something sinister going on.

It does not lessen what Mike has done to bring to light what he has about the co$. He is worthy of great praise for that.
 
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