What Happened To Training?

Karakorum

I tried to be a good cop in the wrong police force
From my point of view - If someone is "trained" in Scientology, that normally comes with a mandate and some informal authority. Class VI's and VIII's were the ones that "knew the tech" is how I remember it.

Thus, they are a threat, always was I imagine, David was never a Div 4 or 5 person himself was he?
Dave was never a registrar, which never stopped him from telling them how to do their jobs either. Really, Dave is not an expert in most fields, yet his word goes.
 
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The Oracle

Not the same Oracle from a decade ago
Well then, here is what I have been wondering all along, and now you have just voiced what I believe might be the real "Why" behind getting trained.

Did training create a more controllable person?

But if that is true, why did Davey torpedo it?
Miscavige rose to power within the cult cuz all evil organizations basically rig it so that the most evil will rise to the top. That is what evil does. Like a magnet, it attracts evil to run the evil and it keeps evil working. Who will run the show after Miscavige? Someone is grooming themselves as we write on this blog. I wonder who it will be?
Will it be Marty Rathbun and Queen Monique? Lol :panic:
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
From my point of view - If someone is "trained" in Scientology, that normally comes with a mandate and some informal authority. Class VI's and VIII's were the ones that "knew the tech" is how I remember it.

Thus, they are a threat, always was I imagine, David was never a Div 4 or 5 person himself was he?
When I was in, I had always heard the story that DM had confronted Mayo in regards to some tech point, F/N's I believe. I knew some guys that always bragged about that. Was he tech trained?

But still, did auditor training contain something that hubtard needed people to go through in his estimation that he couldn't get them to go through otherwise?
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.
And then, what happened to training, and why?
.
ANSWER: What happened was that senior church management made a gargantuan technical breakthrough that streamlined the Bridge, simultaneously giving 5.4X greater wins in 2.5% of the time!

-- It was discovered that training was taking up YEARS of time and this was severe DevT to public Scientologists who could have used all those years to work on income producing activities that allowed them to donate 5.4 more dollars!​
-- Also by speeding up the entire Bridge, the public Scientologist could be rapidly expedited to the top of the Bridge where they would blow and get off church lines with all that natter and stupid "upbraiding about no results". In this way they could rapidly be Declared SP so everyone could disconnect from them and all the other 2.5 percenters.​
Training now is a loss leader where the org needlessly needs to pay 30 dollars salary for a course supervisor to stand around all week asking students "what do your materials state" and "What is your MU?" Not to mention that they have to be given costly food and coffee and clipboards and pink paper don't just grow on trees!

.
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
During my time in.....27 years, starting in 1972, it was always promoted that "Training was 50% of the gains."

To get the full gains.....one was suppose to go up both sides of the Bridge.

So, in other words....Training was important.

Don't know how this all is thought of today.....

Is "training is 50% of the gains" still promoted these days?
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
During my time in.....27 years, starting in 1972, it was always promoted that "Training was 50% of the gains."

To get the full gains.....one was suppose to go up both sides of the Bridge.

So, in other words....Training was important.

Don't know how this all is thought of today.....

Is "training is 50% of the gains" still promoted these days?
It was a big deal in the 90's too. I was in the midst of that in my first org staff life. It was a big god-danged deal. We did all sorts of special drilling in order to get that across to people. There were campaigns using "Reasons To Train", there were all kind of programs done to "Booming An Org Through Training."

Halyards humming in the wind, and we're away!! I think that may be a line from the ref.

Now crickets.

Is the "Basics" now the new training! Does that supplant the training lineup from SH to CLV Grad. I don't even think there is a CL V Grad checksheet anymore, actually. We needed someone to get PDH detection and handling auditing but didn't have a trained auditor, nor could we train one. had to send to another org.

DISCLAIMER : You know I am unserious about the tek being real, and all of the tek handlings being real things. I am just incredulous that they dropped what was once the backbone of the bridge. At least the left side backbone!!
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
Could the reduction in Training be due to a reduction in PCs?

If less and less people are coming into the Orgs......then less Auditors would be needed.

I guess I'm asking if this is all a planned operation....

If so......what else does this mean...for the Cult and an Org?
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
Is "training is 50% of the gains" still promoted these days?
Yes, training being "50% of the gains" is still being promoted these days.

But I have a caveat. For non-Sea Org, there is no training equivalent above Clear, for the OT levels. My perception over many years is that the value and status of Clear has been increasingly depricated in favor of OT. I just don't think being Clear is as big of deal as it used to be; it is more just a stepping stone on the way to OT. (Perhaps like how being a Release is just a stepping stone on the way to Clear.). I suspect that this, the deprication of Clear and emphasis on OT, has had a perhaps subtle but important effect on the status and value of training.

Before the SHSBC was abolshed, I had heard of people being told to do the SHSBC as a requirement for eligibility for the OT levels. After the SHSBC was abolished, I know of at least one person who was told to train to Class 5 as a requirement for eligibility for the OT levels. But this type of thing is exceedingly rare.

I just think that everything being about OT now has had the effect of devaluing the status of training.
 
D

Deleted member 51

Guest
It was a big deal in the 90's too. I was in the midst of that in my first org staff life. It was a big god-danged deal. We did all sorts of special drilling in order to get that across to people. There were campaigns using "Reasons To Train", there were all kind of programs done to "Booming An Org Through Training."

Halyards humming in the wind, and we're away!! I think that may be a line from the ref.

Now crickets.

Is the "Basics" now the new training! Does that supplant the training lineup from SH to CLV Grad. I don't even think there is a CL V Grad checksheet anymore, actually. We needed someone to get PDH detection and handling auditing but didn't have a trained auditor, nor could we train one. had to send to another org.

DISCLAIMER : You know I am unserious about the tek being real, and all of the tek handlings being real things. I am just incredulous that they dropped what was once the backbone of the bridge. At least the left side backbone!!
I know what you mean, it's really a shocking change, isn't it?

But DM takes his advice these days from attorneys. There are a lot of disreputable statements and oopsies on the BC tapes and many of those old PLs, FOs and HCOBs. Some of it is really incriminating. My guess is that he is following legal advice and slowly eliminating any statements in Scientology that can be held against them.

But that's just a guess. It seems clear to me that DM is not very interested in standard Scientology tek as written by its founder, and that, by itself, says a lot about DM's true attitude. It would seem he is just as disgusted with Scientologists as L Ron was. He's happy to take their money for any imaginable reason - certificates, donations to buildings, whatever, but he doesn't go up the Scn bridge himself and puts no value on Scn auditors. It seems "clearing the planet" is no longer a big goal, nor is there any real hope of attaining full OT. It's all very weird, isn't it, that people still donate huge money to it, when its leader seems to think the tek itself is crap.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
That is not what surprised me. While that is horrendously bad enough, what surprised me was having to redo the lower Bridge at Flag at Flag rates.

I get that if one is Clear and on the OT levels, one is supposed to have that Classed Auditor or above for any auditing action, including an Assist if I recall correctly. But it one is told that one is not Clear, what possible justification is there for not allowing them to use a Class 5 Auditor to redo their lower Bridge up to Clear?
I don't know if this is still true but, from what I was told by people who'd done OT levels in the CofS in the 70s and early 80s, there was a rule that once you'd had services at Flag you could no longer have them at any lower org. So, even if you'd attested to clear at an outer org, had done your "lower" OTs at an AO and then went on to Flag for your NOTs, if Flag wanted you to do any retreads those had to be done at Flag. You couldn't do them at an outer org or at an AO.

I suppose the uncynical justification would be that since by its own reckoning Flag is the "mecca of technical perfection" with all the top auditors on the planet etc., a Flag C/S would want to be sure than any actions he or she ordered (requested) done would be done to Flag standards and the obvious way to ensure that would be to insist that they actually were done at Flag. The cynical reason would be that Flag auditing rates are a lot higher than those elsewhere and the CofS would make more money that way.
 
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D

Deleted member 51

Guest
I don't know if this is still true but, from what I was told by people who'd done OT levels in the CofS in the 70s and early 80s, there was a rule that once you'd had services at Flag you could no longer have them at any lower org. So, even if you'd attested to clear at an outer org, had done your "lower" OTs at an AO and then went on to Flag for your NOTs, if Flag wanted you to do any retreads those had to be done at Flag. You couldn't do them at an outer org or at an AO.

I suppose the uncynical justification would be that since by its own reckoning Flag is the "mecca of technical perfection" with all the top auditors on the planet etc., a Flag C/S would want to be sure than any actions he or she ordered (requested) done would be done to Flag standards and the obvious way to ensure that would be to insist that they actually were done at Flag. The cynical reason would be that Flag auditing rates are a lot higher than those elsewhere and the CofS would make more money that way.
Yes, I forgot about that. Once a person went to Flag for auditing, they weren't allowed to get auditing "down" from there without some life-threatening sort of reason. It was tremendously difficult getting Flag to release folders to AOLA for any auditing services. All sorts of strings had to be pulled, deals made, CSWs or petitions written, nearly all of which were disapproved anyway.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
I think this thread may be based on a faulty premise. The SHSBC was dropped for the reasons explained above. That doesn't mean that training was dropped. It wasn't. People still train to Class 5 and do the specialist courses (e.g., Sec Checker, Marriage Auditing).

To bring everyone up to present time, the purpose of GAT 2 was largely to reverse many of the changes made by GAT 1. (At the GAT 2 event Miscavige made a vague but snarchy comment about the people who compiled GAT 1).

Unlike under GAT 1, under GAT 2 Pro TRs no longer requires an RTC video pass. The course is taking a much shorter time.

Under GAT 1, oeople were taking a year or more to pass Pro Metering. I knew someone who was on it for two years. Many simply gave up. That has been reversed under GAT 2. This course is also taking a much shorter time.

The focus of GAT 1 was perfection. The focus of GAT 2 is speed, getting people through, getting them trained.

Scientology has long gone through this cycle on the training side.

One phase is a war against "quickie" anything and an emphasis on technical perfection. This leads to people taking far too long to complete and dropping out.

The next phase is a war against "additives" and "too long of runway" with an emphasis on speed. This leads to the "no tesults" (there are always "no tesults") being blamed on things being omitted and quickied.

My impression is that a lot of people on this thread and on ESMBR got out around the time (and perhaps in part because) of GAT 1, and assume things are the same under GAT 2. They are not regarding training or auditing.

(On the processing side, GAT 2 got rid if the requirement to run every possible process on every flow to complete a Grade. This was done, you guessedcit, to speed things up.)
I think the purpose of GAT 1and 2 was to get everybody to read and listen to Hubbard from Dianetics to scientology (OT) and be persuaded by Hubbard and get everybody on the same page. DM does not have the rhetoric skills Hubbard had as a writer.

50% of the gains from training means simply being persuaded by Hubbard that dianetics and scientology work.

But, also, training means one buys Hubbard's books and lectures. That's a source of income for Hubbard throughout the years. Nobody can get trained unless you buy his books or lectures or E-meter.

DM now does not get royalties like hubbard did, but DM gets the money to use. And that's where his lawyers come in and how they get paid.

Also, after the GAT1 & 2, emphasis became the IAS, and that is donations without services being delivered, hence pure donations.

Anyways, I heard about 5 years ago that someone who knows someone in the higher ups, and knows someone who is a speechwriter, said, that DM would prefer a small following as opposed to a big following. Hence the whales keep donating to the IAS.

But, I think about it, how do you explain insane as insane means there is no logic or reason, and that would explain DM.

I might also note, Hubbard said the money doesn't even have to be in your name, you only need to control it..

Any of you folks ever question why there is separate checking account in orgs and missions known as the HCO book account?

Don't forget HCO means Hubbard Communications Office.
 
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PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
No BC or 8 course -- well that just makes the release of OT 9 & 10 impossible. I recall CL VI being a requirement to doing the (never to be released) OT 9 & 10. :D Back in the late 90's early 00's people were being prodded to get onto their pre-reqs so they'd be ready! :sleep:
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
No BC or 8 course -- well that just makes the release of OT 9 & 10 impossible. I recall CL VI being a requirement to doing the (never to be released) OT 9 & 10. :D Back in the late 90's early 00's people were being prodded to get onto their pre-reqs so they'd be ready! :sleep:
what does is matter, all the OT8's I know are wearing masks and hunkered down, LOL.

Hubbard's tech is such a hoax.
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
No BC or 8 course -- well that just makes the release of OT 9 & 10 impossible. I recall CL VI being a requirement to doing the (never to be released) OT 9 & 10. :D Back in the late 90's early 00's people were being prodded to get onto their pre-reqs so they'd be ready! :sleep:
Miscavige could simply eliminate being Class 6 as a requirement for doing OT 9 and 10.

Such a move would not be without precedent. Someone up thread said that being Class 6 used to be a prerequisite for the Class 9 course. That has been changed so that the prerequisite is being Class 5.

They could do the same thing with OT 9 and 10 -- i.e., change the requirement from being Class 6 to being Class 5.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Help me Hubbard and DM, you are our only hope. LOL

 

onceuponatime

Well-known member
Some great posts and speculation here.

I think the simplicity is that these days, and probably for some time, training does not have the same status that Clear/OT does. If you asked any Scientologist what would they rather be, Clear or a Class IV auditor and they will mostly all say Clear. If you asked OT vs trained I don't think anyone will say trained, they all want the OT super powers.

Add that to the fact that training takes some time and some effort (whether you believe in it or not, Scientology training does take some actual dedication/time/skill versus sitting in a chair answering questions) and it's pretty easy to see why training has become less popular. Also from the orgs stand point they buy a training package and then they are in the Academy training for at least a year, i.e. no more/new donations. They could use up a similar amount of auditing in a month or two.

Also I'm sure people don't like constantly redoing their training. While yes there has been some re-do stuff on the auditing side it generally isn't the same as all your certs are cancelled re-start from Student Hat. The only major cycle that I recall that matches it on the auditing side is when everyone got told they weren't Clear and had to re-do their lower bridge. I'm not going to go into that too much but I will add that the reason they all had to do it at Flag at Class IX rates is simple. They were already OT and had been exposed to the OT material, so even though they weren't Clear they had the OT data. No way was a lower classed auditor/C/S/org going to handle them, not when they'd already been exposed to the OT data. I know some people were already refusing to re-train after GAT I came out and I'm sure GAT II only added to those numbers.

These days the only people really training are those in the SO or Staff who are training to be auditors or for some tech post. Though I have heard of some people being required to train before doing OT levels.

I'm not sure about why the rest of the training stuff hasn't been released, Grad V/BC etc. I have some speculation but really it's just speculation.
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
Miscavige could simply eliminate being Class 6 as a requirement for doing OT 9 and 10.

Such a move would not be without precedent. Someone up thread said that being Class 6 used to be a prerequisite for the Class 9 course. That has been changed so that the prerequisite is being Class 5.

They could do the same thing with OT 9 and 10 -- i.e., change the requirement from being Class 6 to being Class 5.
Well, it was DM that came up with the requirements in the 1st place, lol. But yes, of course, he can do whatever he wants - and will.

I'm pretty sure they'll get around to having the 6 & 8 courses again. And when they do there will be great fanfare and gnashing of teeth and rah rah sis boom bah and buy-now-isms galore and for sure you better get onto it because OT 9, blah blah blah, rinse & repeat.
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
Well, it was DM that came up with the requirements in the 1st place, lol. But yes, of course, he can do whatever he wants - and will.

I'm pretty sure they'll get around to having the 6 & 8 courses again. And when they do there will be great fanfare and gnashing of teeth and rah rah sis boom bah and buy-now-isms galore and for sure you better get onto it because OT 9, blah blah blah, rinse & repeat.
I know they were doing "get ready" briefings for OT 9 and 10 in 2019.


Thursday Funnies


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Karen#1

Well-known member
Don't quote me, but I got the feeling that half the stuff one studies religiously on the SHSBC
was invalidated, changed or nullified at some point later in the course. Maybe a year later,
maybe even just a week later. The whole course seems like it is a series of flip-flops and/or
a meandering river. Much of it is historical background, dead ends, and un-resolved avenues
of inquiry. Many students complained about this later on.

I'm speaking as if any of it is valid. It is not. Just trying to explain it to you as a believer would.

I never did the course, but I've looked over much of it -- and the tapes -- and have spoken to
many people who did it.
Basically, it is a "research record" of what was in Ron's imagination day to day, week to week.
Or how he felt and what he made up during his self-examinations and flights of fancy, which
changed a helluva lot over the years. Constantly. Sometimes daily.
My Saint Hill Special Briefing Course in 1971 was a meandering labyrinth of Goals Problems Mass tapes with 3G criss cross procedures and goal finding and whole track goal finding and how one opposed one's own goals etc.etc.

Then after all the clay demos, after all the indoctrination and digesting it all......

ALL CANCELLED.

Hubbard announced all Goals, All GPM plots were IMPLANTED !
You had not found your ACTUAL goal.
No one found their ACTUAL goal.
Only IMPLANTED goals were uncovered.

And from then on Hubbard did in fact point more and more to IMPLANTS, arguably obsessively.

Whole Track Psychiatrists were the WHO of having any case at all.
OT 2 is all implants.
OT 3 is the 75 million year ago implant

NOTS is handling the Body Thetans that were mostly the victims of these implants.


Does anyone wonder why it is all "SECRETIVE" and under wraps and "CONFIDENTIAL" til you are READY?
Til RTC and OSA give you ELIGIBILITY to trust you not to share such secrets with anyone ?
 
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