Enthetan
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I'm the same way. My basis for judging is to ask myself
"Which of these guys is more likely to make life better for me and the people I care about?"
Note carefully the phrase "...and the people I care about".
Vintage Carmelo
- Thread starter vegan3
- Start date
"Which of these guys is more likely to make life better for me and the people I care about?"
Note carefully the phrase "...and the people I care about".
Type4_PTS
Well-known member
It's doubtful we'd be talking about him at all had he not been President and/or was running again.
If I was going to vote for a candidate for President based on their personal character I'm not sure I would have ever voted. Mostly it's voting for the least of two evils or voting for whom I believe will be best for the country.
I decided in 2016 to stay home for the Presidential election because I didn't like either of the candidates, but several months prior to the election I decided that I would vote for Trump as I believed his impact on the Supreme Court would be better.
Given that he IS a candidate for 2024 we should be comparing him to the alternatives, shouldn't we?
Anyways, I'm getting ready for work so might respond further to your post if/when I have time. Probably it should be moved over to the U.S. Politics or Trump thread though.
I M Dex
Well-known member
My distaste for Trump overshadows my distaste for politics, as he is the poster child for all that is wrong about the whole subject. He's the singular reason I generally avoid the subject. My personal knowledge of his absolute disinterest in anything other than himself seals the deal. So I'll leave it to others to ruminate on the subject going forward, having said my piece.It's doubtful we'd be talking about him at all had he not been President and/or was running again.
If I was going to vote for a candidate for President based on their personal character I'm not sure I would have ever voted. Mostly it's voting for the least of two evils or voting for whom I believe will be best for the country.
I decided in 2016 to stay home for the Presidential election because I didn't like either of the candidates, but several months prior to the election I decided that I would vote for Trump as I believed his impact on the Supreme Court would be better.
Given that he IS a candidate for 2024 we should be comparing him to the alternatives, shouldn't we?
Anyways, I'm getting ready for work so might respond further to your post if/when I have time. Probably it should be moved over to the U.S. Politics or Trump thread though.
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Enthetan
Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I have difficulty with this story.
Even in NYC, there aren't a huge number of "high end printing" businesses, and at that level you expect the owners to talk to each other. I would expect word to get around quickly, with places declining to do business with him if he was doing this sort of thing without just cause (as in declining to pay for a bad job).
I M Dex
Well-known member
It's a fact. This was in the 1980's, and I was familiar with every high end printer, worked for a few of them. Word eventually got around, but not before more than one victim I knew. Might not be what you want to believe, but I wouldn't make up something like this, my info came from people involved. Besides, given the number of attorneys who had to sue Trump to get paid, there's nothing far-fetched about it.
Type4_PTS
Well-known member
You don't seem the type to make something like this up.
But it's difficult to believe that high-end printers or multiple businessmen in any industry would accept 10-15% payment for their services without engaging in litigation, and if there was litigation there should be a public record of that and possibly even a media story given that it involves Trump.
If the printers delivered the products as ordered and Trump failed to pay, what would stop someone from winning a lawsuit against him? If they delivered what was ordered and had a record of it that's a pretty simple case and don't see how a judge would rule against the business owner.
Even if it IS true I anyways prefer not to judge someone based on their behavior from 33+ or more years ago. I was working hard for a criminally abusive organization back at that time as many of us were, so people can change.
I M Dex
Well-known member
You don't seem the type to make something like this up.
But it's difficult to believe that high-end printers or multiple businessmen in any industry would accept 10-15% payment for their services without engaging in litigation, and if there was litigation there should be a public record of that and possibly even a media story given that it involves Trump.
If the printers delivered the products as ordered and Trump failed to pay, what would stop someone from winning a lawsuit against him? If they delivered what was ordered and had a record of it that's a pretty simple case and don't see how a judge would rule against the business owner.
Even if it IS true I anyways prefer not to judge someone based on their behavior from 33+ or more years ago. I was working hard for a criminally abusive organization back at that time as many of us were, so people can change.
I M Dex
Well-known member
I actually never found out how the matters were settled, whether they went to court, and/or negotiated a settlement. I wonder if they felt some kind of threat or pressure not to push things, as Trump seemed to be a big deal, with some political juice in the city, but that's only my speculation. But the facts I gave are the facts, I just can't say how things went from there. The obvious problem with going to court is the cost of litigation and the time involved.
In those days the print industry was booming, during the 80's bubble, and business was plentiful. I worked mostly as an estimator. Everybody was able to charge 30% over (inflated) cost, and charge exorbitantly for extras and changes. When the bubble burst, and building leases tripled in price with industrial properties being converted to luxury condos, most big printers moved out of Manhattan or disappeared. I remember putting an ad for a position in the Printing News and getting 17 requests to come in for interviews. Good times while they lasted.
In those days the print industry was booming, during the 80's bubble, and business was plentiful. I worked mostly as an estimator. Everybody was able to charge 30% over (inflated) cost, and charge exorbitantly for extras and changes. When the bubble burst, and building leases tripled in price with industrial properties being converted to luxury condos, most big printers moved out of Manhattan or disappeared. I remember putting an ad for a position in the Printing News and getting 17 requests to come in for interviews. Good times while they lasted.
Type4_PTS
Well-known member
I worked briefly with a friend of mine here in Florida in the early 90s who was a print broker and commercial artist, but was just doing it part-time. I did a little bit of everything, from sales to helping him on some commercial art projects. I can't do art to save my life but there were certain things I could do.
Reyne Mayer
Pansexual Revolutionary
the NYC area including Long Island and New Jersey is vast, it's not like a small city where the couple of printers know each other. and legal costs, time, dealing with typical strategies like complaining that what was delivered somehow wasn't as ordered -- and maybe fear that taking on someone known for being on suspiciously good terms with the mob (construction, trash collection, etc., going back to his early days with Roy Cohn) might result in your nice things getting broken....
my uncle in NYC high finance says that there are still bitter memories of people and businesses ruined in the '80s and '90s -- and that and and other reasons are why Wall Street and prominent firms generally don't get involved with him, and he's had to go to 'dirty' Deutsch Bank for loans. and some of this is much newer than the '80s and '90s.
Donald Trump’s Business Plan Left a Trail of Unpaid Bills
Donald Trump’s hardball business tactics left some businesses saying he shortchanged them.
www.wsj.com
Why U.S. Law Makes It Easy for Donald Trump To Stiff Contractors | Fortune
Fortunately, the practice is not common in business.
USA TODAY exclusive: Hundreds allege Donald Trump doesn’t pay his bills
Among those who say billionaire didn't pay: dishwashers, painters, waiters
www.usatoday.com
i've been spending a lot of time NYC for almost a year now, and discovering a new depth of life lessons about assumptions -- things there do not necessarily work the way you might think or expect, based on other and smaller places. lessons that applies to things like cults and some of the sort of mistakes that result in people getting involved and then stuck in them, no?
how did this thread get derailed onto politics?
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Type4_PTS
Well-known member
I believe it derailed after vegan3's comment about so many Republican's in the cult over here.
I M Dex
Well-known member
Jack Dirmann's bio and not one mention of the S word haha. Janis has been mentioning Annie, a bit, that he married.
"Winter left me longing for the sun and surf of California… Santa Monica here I come! Before I left…I wanted to give one more family-legacy-thing (boxing) a shot… although I never was able to walk in my Pop’s footsteps, SEC Middleweight Champion, big part of why I went to school in NOLA.
Showed up in Palo Alto, January 1, 1966. Had a ton of fun, lots of new friends…Dean’s List… by now my interest in academics plummeting… if a study didn’t apply to my life, got no time for it. New friend showed me a Lacrosse stick and I was hooked. Reading, lots of reading… loved the Great Philosophers of Western thought… but still found them wanting, no real road map to happiness. Within a year, my brother, Jim (former ASB President at LaSalle High School) was deep in-country in a very hostile Vietnam as the campus was exploding with drugs and the world was being turned upside down. I transferred to UC in part to continue to stay out of the draft and in part to cut my costs. It didn’t take too long living in Berkeley to grasp how devastating the electrifying, turned-on lifestyle was to kids and any hope they had of getting a useful education. The toll on society was equal parts maddening and saddening. Made several lifelong friends at both stops.
1968 returned to Palo Alto finished what I started at Stanford. Brother makes it back alive! "
this other page sounds to me like he is "hanging" with a feshbach.
"Winter left me longing for the sun and surf of California… Santa Monica here I come! Before I left…I wanted to give one more family-legacy-thing (boxing) a shot… although I never was able to walk in my Pop’s footsteps, SEC Middleweight Champion, big part of why I went to school in NOLA.
Showed up in Palo Alto, January 1, 1966. Had a ton of fun, lots of new friends…Dean’s List… by now my interest in academics plummeting… if a study didn’t apply to my life, got no time for it. New friend showed me a Lacrosse stick and I was hooked. Reading, lots of reading… loved the Great Philosophers of Western thought… but still found them wanting, no real road map to happiness. Within a year, my brother, Jim (former ASB President at LaSalle High School) was deep in-country in a very hostile Vietnam as the campus was exploding with drugs and the world was being turned upside down. I transferred to UC in part to continue to stay out of the draft and in part to cut my costs. It didn’t take too long living in Berkeley to grasp how devastating the electrifying, turned-on lifestyle was to kids and any hope they had of getting a useful education. The toll on society was equal parts maddening and saddening. Made several lifelong friends at both stops.
1968 returned to Palo Alto finished what I started at Stanford. Brother makes it back alive! "
this other page sounds to me like he is "hanging" with a feshbach.
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thread not complete without history of carmelo. interesting article about Edward Berwick Jr. who was engaged to the daughter of the president of Stanford at the time (David Starr Jordon). Edward died of either a heart attack or stroke before the marriage took place and the bride-to-be was beside herself with grief.
(Palo Alto had a junior high school named after Jordon but it was later renamed.
"School name changes begin — so long Terman and Jordan"
Palo Alto Daily Post – News for Palo Alto and the mid-Peninsula › Palo Alto
Jul 1, 2018 — A few of the signs at Jordan Middle School in Palo Alto have been repainted to reflect the school's new name.)
Edward Berwick (January 25, 1843 – January 28, 1934) was an English-American farmer who raised crops, orchards, and livestock. He settled in Carmel Valley, California in 1869 and developed the Berwick Manor and Orchard. He planted the first commercial pear orchard, specializing in the Winter Nelis pear. He was nationally known for his work for peace and the parcel post. He was the first person to raise winter pears on a commercial scale.[1][2]
Edward Berwick (pioneer) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
this is a pic of the article.
www.newspapers.com
cdnc.ucr.edu
That article mentions he was attended to by "Dr. Gunn" which must be related to Gunn high school that was created during Palo Alto's "boom" years (the 60's). We then had three high schools in palo alto at that time. Cubberley was at the mountain view border and the one i always considered as lower to middle working class. Paly (palo alto high school) was for the more affluent with the parents being white collar business people (Joan Baez one of the most famous alumni). Then Gunn appeared which was the kids of the doctors and lawyers (bordering los altos/los altos hills). Cubberley closed in the 70's which just left the two high schools.
(Palo Alto had a junior high school named after Jordon but it was later renamed.
"School name changes begin — so long Terman and Jordan"
Palo Alto Daily Post – News for Palo Alto and the mid-Peninsula › Palo Alto
Jul 1, 2018 — A few of the signs at Jordan Middle School in Palo Alto have been repainted to reflect the school's new name.)
Edward Berwick (January 25, 1843 – January 28, 1934) was an English-American farmer who raised crops, orchards, and livestock. He settled in Carmel Valley, California in 1869 and developed the Berwick Manor and Orchard. He planted the first commercial pear orchard, specializing in the Winter Nelis pear. He was nationally known for his work for peace and the parcel post. He was the first person to raise winter pears on a commercial scale.[1][2]
Edward Berwick (pioneer) - Wikipedia
Edward Berwick - Wikipedia
this is a pic of the article.
Edward Berwick Jr.
Clipping found in Monterey Daily Cypress and Monterey American published in Monterey, California on 2/6/1909. Edward Berwick Jr.
www.newspapers.com
San Francisco Call 6 February 1909 — California Digital Newspaper Collection
California Digital Newspaper Collection
That article mentions he was attended to by "Dr. Gunn" which must be related to Gunn high school that was created during Palo Alto's "boom" years (the 60's). We then had three high schools in palo alto at that time. Cubberley was at the mountain view border and the one i always considered as lower to middle working class. Paly (palo alto high school) was for the more affluent with the parents being white collar business people (Joan Baez one of the most famous alumni). Then Gunn appeared which was the kids of the doctors and lawyers (bordering los altos/los altos hills). Cubberley closed in the 70's which just left the two high schools.
Attachments
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One of the most fascinating articles I've read on the history of the bay area/silicon valley bringing us all the way up to current times.
The Octopus and Its Grandchildren
by Rebecca Solnit
When an 1882 cartoon in San Francisco’s Wasp newspaper depicted the Southern Pacific Railroad as an octopus with the whole state of California in its far-reaching tentacles, it launched an image of monopoly power still with us today. Supersize these animals and put people, institutions, and buildings within their reach, and those tentacles become an apt shorthand for the diversified interests of an acquisitive force. Likely inspired by the cartoon, Frank Norris took up the figure for his 1902 muckraking novel about the railroads, The Octopus. A few years later, Standard Oil was similarly represented in an illustration for Punch magazine. The animal had evolved somewhat by 2009, when Matt Taibbi called Goldman Sachs “a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.”
harpers.org
When I was eighteen, I spent several months working as a bus girl at a diner. It was a cheerful-looking place, facing San Francisco Bay. The kitchen was L-shaped: the owner stood in the short end of the L with the coffee makers and the cash register, and I was often at the other end, by the dishwashing machine, out of sight. In between were the prep counters and an eight-burner stove, where the cook was stationed. He was a middle-aged drinker with bloodshot eyes who would unexpectedly grab me from behind. No one seemed to notice, and in that decade before Anita Hill brought “sexual harassment” into the popular lexicon, I couldn’t articulate that this was something that violated my rights instead of just something that repulsed and rattled me.
The Octopus and Its Grandchildren
by Rebecca Solnit
When an 1882 cartoon in San Francisco’s Wasp newspaper depicted the Southern Pacific Railroad as an octopus with the whole state of California in its far-reaching tentacles, it launched an image of monopoly power still with us today. Supersize these animals and put people, institutions, and buildings within their reach, and those tentacles become an apt shorthand for the diversified interests of an acquisitive force. Likely inspired by the cartoon, Frank Norris took up the figure for his 1902 muckraking novel about the railroads, The Octopus. A few years later, Standard Oil was similarly represented in an illustration for Punch magazine. The animal had evolved somewhat by 2009, when Matt Taibbi called Goldman Sachs “a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.”
Nobody Knows, by Rebecca Solnit
harpers.org
When I was eighteen, I spent several months working as a bus girl at a diner. It was a cheerful-looking place, facing San Francisco Bay. The kitchen was L-shaped: the owner stood in the short end of the L with the coffee makers and the cash register, and I was often at the other end, by the dishwashing machine, out of sight. In between were the prep counters and an eight-burner stove, where the cook was stationed. He was a middle-aged drinker with bloodshot eyes who would unexpectedly grab me from behind. No one seemed to notice, and in that decade before Anita Hill brought “sexual harassment” into the popular lexicon, I couldn’t articulate that this was something that violated my rights instead of just something that repulsed and rattled me.
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well heck. cannot edit post above. jack married irene, not annie.
"Found my secret sauce for happiness – helping others. Practiced it and discovered more happiness than I ever thought existed. As if I could be so lucky, another of life’s great fortune visited me - love... I met Irene, my beautiful wife to be. Four kids who filled our lives, sent our hearts soaring and made us immensely proud."
Scientologists Tammy (Terrenzi) Strickling, Jack & Irene Dirmann sued by US Bankruptcy Trustee for involvement in Slatkin's Ponzi scheme
groups.google.com
Partial bio of Irene Johnson Dunleavy/Howey/Dirmann
Believed to have been born in Australia.
Was at Saint Hill England in mid-1960s.
In September 1967 was Hubbard Communications Office Area Secretary at
Saint Hill England.[1]
Married by Rev. Yvonne Jentzsch
"Found my secret sauce for happiness – helping others. Practiced it and discovered more happiness than I ever thought existed. As if I could be so lucky, another of life’s great fortune visited me - love... I met Irene, my beautiful wife to be. Four kids who filled our lives, sent our hearts soaring and made us immensely proud."
Scientologists Tammy (Terrenzi) Strickling, Jack & Irene Dirmann sued by US Bankruptcy Trustee for involvement in Slatkin's Ponzi scheme
Irene Johnson Dunleavy/Howey/Dirmann
groups.google.com
Partial bio of Irene Johnson Dunleavy/Howey/Dirmann
Believed to have been born in Australia.
Was at Saint Hill England in mid-1960s.
In September 1967 was Hubbard Communications Office Area Secretary at
Saint Hill England.[1]
Married by Rev. Yvonne Jentzsch
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pineapple
能说的名字不真的名字
No. Joan Baez is a woman, so she is one of the most famous alumnae.
| Masculine | Feminine | |
| Singular | alumnus | alumna |
| Plural | alumni | alumnae |
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