The Scientologirl Independent Scientology YouTube channel associated with the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains

[HelluvaHoax!]

During what years were you a member of Scientology inc.? If you don't mind be asking.

Were you a member in the 1960s when there were numerous magazine articles exposing Scientology. All but a small number of vulnerable people recognized Scientology as a manipulative cult.

In the early 1970s numerous books appeared, exposing it further.

I quietly began backing away after Hubbard's May 1977 LSD Zombie Bulletin, and then the 1978 Dianetic Clear frenzy when I could no longer deny to myself that most Scientologists were under Hubbard's hypnotic influence.

In 1978 I started reading the works of Alesiter Crowley, and there was no turning back. I knew too much.

Were you still a Scientology member then?

During the late 1970s the Scientology's spying and dirty tricks activities were exposed, by court order, and there were many newspaper articles. Mary Sue took the rap for her husband was sent to federal prison.

Were you still a member then?

You don't have to answer, but you might ponder it.

These days are not so different. A person meets a Scientologist who he likes and the Scientologist creates a positive impression.

News stories, including - these days -on the Internet, are discounted as unreliable.

If you were a Scientologist, and ignored the archives available in libraries, and the magazines, and books, then you did the same thing.

Be as tolerant with others as you have been with yourself.

.
Over the years on this website, you have asked me a helluva lotta questions about what I was doing exactly in Scientology in what years. I never answer you but you keep asking. And I have no slightest interest in answering any of your unwelcome questions. What is it that you don't understand about my ignoring all your personal questions? Get a clue, dude! Get some clay or re-do your student hat at one of the Indie Scn centers, so you can figure it out.

1. The years things happened is irrelevant. Whatever magical significance. you put on the "years" feels at this point like some dimwitted attempt to do lawyerly "cross examination" so that you can later showcase your "GOTCHA!!!" moment, LOL. There is no "gotcha!" moment for me. I have already posted for a dozen years a rather voluminous number of OPED and satirical posts making it very clear what I think. The "year" something happened decades earlier is entirely unrelated to anything happening in the discussion here.

2. Your moralizing sermons to me and others of how we are supposed to respond to Indie Scientologists promoting Hubbard's hoax is beyond worn out. At this point it's entirely lame. You have crossed that line too often and in case you didn't notice it, you are now solidly getting into "CHURCH-LADY" territory. Isn't that special! LOL.

3. The lofty moral standards you feel sure you must force upon ex-scientologists and to me personally do not exist in you, as you imagine. You are not superior to anyone else on this website.

4. The Indie Scientologist that you are so worried about protecting is the one that came HERE and began labeling me and others as "low toned" and "toxic" and "pts" and "loaded with overts/crimes" and "trolls" and many other scandalously stupid recriminations. The joke is that you don't peddle your moralizing mojo to the Indie that is running sleazy cult "dead agenting" gimmicks. You instead--and very foolishly--try to throw posters on this discussion board into your "church-lady" ethics department for handling.

No thanks, here's your "Ethics Routing Form" back. Maybe if you use tone 40 8C, the Indie would like one of your routing forms. LOL


.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

Be as tolerant with others as you have been with yourself.
.

.
Do unto others? Jeez, thanks so much for the Jeez-us like advice. However---

I already am as tolerant with others as I have been with myself.

I am also as intolerant with others as I have been with myself.

I am particularly intolerant with shore stories, acceptable truths, fraud, lies and gaslighting, whether it is someone doing that to me and/or me doing that to myself.

That is precisely how I was able to physically and psychologically escape the sleazy criminal cult hoax called Scientology.

SUMMARY: Only victims, marks, fools & idiots would ever aspire to be "tolerant" of cult treachery.

.

 

[ISNOINews]

look guys, scientologygirl has made a few vids on her you tube channel. She's a COS staff member or maybe a indie, or make believe, if you look at the latest you tube, only a few hundred views, LOL.

But if you view this you tube, it's done by the COS, or maybe a indie group, to persuade (rhetoric), LOL, to anybody that happens to chance land on it while researching. You can nowadays view things like this as letters out, since the internet is free, just send millions of letters out and maybe some will stick. LOL

Scientologirl is an Independent Scientologist associated with the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains (AOGP). The video you posted was done by Scientologirl for AOGP.

There is a separate thread devoted to her YouTube channel and all of her videos:

https://exscn2.net/threads/the-scie...vanced-organization-of-the-great-plains.1771/ .

That thread contains the video you posted. As I recall, Scientologist briefly did services ar a Church of Scientology but found it too expensive and then discovered AOGP.

/

 

[Veda]

During what years were you a member of Scientology inc.? If you don't mind me asking.

-snip-

These days are not so different. A person meets a Scientologist who he likes and the Scientologist creates a positive impression.

News stories, including - these days - on the Internet, are discounted as unreliable.

-snip-

.
Over the years on this website, you have asked me a helluva lotta questions about what I was doing exactly in Scientology in what years.

-snip-

Over the years I have not asked you a helluva lotta questions about what you were doing and, now that we're on the subject, I used the word "harsh," in response to you, exactly once.

I have defended you in times past, and appreciate and enjoy - and regard as beneficial - the humor you brought to ESMB and, now, bring to ESMBR.

.
Do unto others? Jeez, thanks so much for the Jeez-us like advice. However---

-snip-

SUMMARY: Only victims, marks, fools & idiots would ever aspire to be "tolerant" of cult treachery.

I am not suggesting being tolerant of cult treachery.

I am suggesting having a little more self-awareness, and recognizing that at least some of the - very occasional - "Scientologists" who come here are usually, mainly, victims of Scientology (although they don't realize it yet), are are not that different than we, ourselves, were, at one time.

That doesn't mean that one never pushes back.

It does mean that, in the recesses of one's mind at least, there is some small amount of humility, as we were once them.

"Well, that wasn't so hard, was it? Class dismissed."

​

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

--snipped--

It does mean that, in the recesses of one's mind at least, there is some small amount of humility, as we were once them.

What are you talking about?!

The indie scientologist spews a whole bunch of nasty cult insults directed at me and you give me a routing form to your ethics department so you can teach me humility? LOL.

I already blew from Scientology. Kindly let me know any other religions, philosophies and/or cults you subscribe to, so I can blow from those too.

"Well, that wasn't so hard, was it? Class dismissed."

​

 

[Zertel]

I left scn around 1979 soon after attesting to dianetic clear because of the price increases which I thought were greedy and unjustified. At the time I had no problem with the Tek and had not experienced any abuse. I never read a word about scn until I watched Going Clear in 2015 and started reading and participating on Rathbun's, Rinder's and Alanzo's blogs. Ortega, ESMB and other sites were active but those three were enough for me to express my opinions and ask questions and get feedback.

Particularly on Marty's blog he usually left a topic up for a week or more and there were a lot of side conversations about everything from Buddhism to the Occult to Taoism which people had investigated or practiced after leaving scn. I followed up and did some study and got an overview of several different subjects. At the time there were still a lot of "Indies" and people saying they had gotten or were still having some benefits from scn. I found many of them to be interesting and fun people.

When the Aftermath started it focused on the most egregious and horrific aspects of the formal cherch. That started a trend, IMO, where any mention of scn or Hubbard in a positive way is met with immediate hostility and hatred and indies and others with a more moderate view quit participating. Most of the people commenting today are those who were sea org, long term staff, people who got ripped off by the official cherch or never ins who have taken up the cause of eradicating scn in any and all of its forms. Since scn is proven to be a false path to "spiritual freedom" I guess that's to be expected.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Snipped.

It does mean that, in the recesses of one's mind at least, there is some small amount of humility, as we were once them

NO ... WE WERE NOT.
YOU may have been an egotistical, evangelistic huckster/wannabe guru constantly on the hunt for fresh meat for the cult but as far as I can tell most here were victims of these often very charming monsters, myself included.

What is wrong with you Veda ... can you not understand the difference between a bog standard scientologist and one who determinedly goes out with a large net and a vat of strong glue intent on entrapping people?

Stop pretending to be so dense, if these sales people didn't exist, neither would the cult!

 

[Bill]

I am not suggesting being tolerant of cult treachery.

I am suggesting having a little more self-awareness, and recognizing that at least some of the - very occasional - "Scientologists" who come here are usually, mainly, victims of Scientology (although they don't realize it yet), are are not that different than we, ourselves, were, at one time.

That doesn't mean that one never pushes back.

It does mean that, in the recesses of one's mind at least, there is some small amount of humility, as we were once them.

Ha-ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia,” but only slightly less well known is this: “Never assume that your Scientology experiences must determine how others interact with current True Believers".
​

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

...
Stop pretending to be so dense, if these sales people didn't exist, neither would the cult!
.

Exactly!

I will mention at this point that the "Sales Industrial Complex" within the cult of Scientology employs the very same "technology" that Fair Game uses.

To wit, "lying" and "tricking" others to until they surrender that which cult leaders covet and crave from them. In this way, Scientology gurus regard their own customers, public and "parishioners" as "enemies" or "SPs" who need to be attacked and mugged for all their money and their time.

And Scientologists and "Indie" Scientologists think that the "low toned" and "toxic" and "criminal" and "unethical" and "anti social" and "evil-purposed" people are the EX Scientologists. LOL


.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

I don't understand. We're arguing about a problem that doesn't exist, IMO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Most people who join message boards spend a bit of time lurking and reading
to see if it's the place they belong before they jump in and try to change or fight
with the denizens. I think this is pretty typical.

I lurked on the original ESMB for three years before I joined and began making posts.
And many other boards simultaneously. I was just so curious.

Here's what a popular and well-respected member of the old board posted:

"I joined ESMB 1 year ago . . . . I had been lurking here for months and months and reading​

many of the other Scn Blogs and Boards and Sites and spent hours and hours reading posts​

and threads going all the way back to the beginning of ESMB. There are a few folks here that​

I even spent the time to look through every post they had ever made."​

I think this is more common than not. Occasionally, psychopaths, trolls or plants show up and make
noise, but that's another story.

I for one wouldn't go to a Democrat message board and preach MAGA. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Veda]

I left scn around 1979 soon after attesting to dianetic clear because of the price increases which I thought were greedy and unjustified. At the time I had no problem with the Tek and had not experienced any abuse. I never read a word about scn until I watched Going Clear in 2015 and started reading and participating on Rathbun's, Rinder's and Alanzo's blogs. Ortega, ESMB and other sites were active but those three were enough for me to express my opinions and ask questions and get feedback.

Particularly on Marty's blog he usually left a topic up for a week or more and there were a lot of side conversations about everything from Buddhism to the Occult to Taoism which people had investigated or practiced after leaving scn. I followed up and did some study and got an overview of several different subjects. At the time there were still a lot of "Indies" or people saying they had gotten or were still having some benefits from scn. I found many of them to be interesting and fun people.

When the Aftermath started it focused on the most egregious and horrific aspects of the formal cherch. That started a trend, IMO, where any mention of scn or Hubbard in a positive way is met with immediate hostility and hatred and indies and others with a more moderate view quit participating. Most of the people commenting today are those who were sea org, long term staff, people who got ripped off by the official cherch or never ins who have taken up the cause of eradicating scn in any and all of its forms. Since scn is proven to be a false path to "spiritual freedom" I guess that's to be expected.

We had different paths, but I think we'd both be considered early leavers.

It was the May 1977 LSD Zombie Bulletin that brought home to my pantywaisted dilettanted self that Hubbard could be completely and stupidly wrong about something. Previous to that, I simply avoided areas of craziness in Scientology, or tolerated them and then got away as quickly as possible. This was fairly easy to do as a "public person."

Already off lines as of spring 1976, the LSD Zombie Bulletin, to me, was just a tiny speed bump - after all I was not IN Scientology - although I had not yet resigned by membership in the Organization, which I didn't do until early 1983.

I almost had more experience with Scientology, during the five years after leaving, then before leaving. I did more auditing, partly to satisfy my curiosity as to what it would be like auditing with no organizational red tape, and to see if I could separate the "mental healing" bait from the hook,

and spent more time on projects related to Scientology (mostly because Scientology was attacking me or people I knew), read through thousands of pages of court documents, including the documents seized as the result of the July 1977 issuance of federal search warrants, plus Paulette Cooper's three binders of documents concerning the Ops against her, various Hubbard biographical documents, other interesting documents useful in decoding Scientology, and had the experience of dealing with Scientology thugs and Private Investigators, and being questioned by Scientology consiglieries in court and in depositions.

And all this before the advent of the Internet.

Then I took what I expected to be a permanent vacation from things Scientological, and that continued for a while, until an attorney, under attack from Scientology, asked me to do some specialized paralegal work. When that was done, I went back to my vacation from Scientology, but, eventually, something would come up - inevitably related to another attack from Scientology. (They really like attacking, although, these days, they seem to be relying more on sneakiness.)

This most recent (internet) phase is not time consuming, and is just a hobby.

​

 

[Veda]

I don't understand. We're arguing about a problem that doesn't exist, IMO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Most people who join message boards spend a bit of time lurking and reading
to see if it's the place they belong before they jump in and try to change or fight
with the denizens. I think this is pretty typical.

I lurked on the original ESMB for three years before I joined and began making posts.
And many other boards simultaneously. I was just so curious.

Here's what a popular and well-respected member of the old board posted:

"I joined ESMB 1 year ago . . . . I had been lurking here for months and months and reading​

many of the other Scn Blogs and Boards and Sites and spent hours and hours reading posts​

and threads going all the way back to the beginning of ESMB. There are a few folks here that​

I even spent the time to look through every post they had ever made."​

I think this is more common than not. Occasionally, psychopaths, trolls or plants show up and make
noise, but that's another story.

I for one wouldn't go to a Democrat message board and preach MAGA. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The Message Board I encountered when I first visited ESMB, years ago, was a place of robust discussion with many varied points of view. That was a big part of what made it interesting.

Making it an echo chamber, where contrary views are not tolerated is the kiss of death for the MB.

 

[Bill]

The Message Board I encountered when I first visited ESMB, years ago, was a place of robust discussion with many varied points of view. That was a big part of what made it interesting.

Making it an echo chamber, where contrary views are not tolerated is the kiss of death for the MB.

We have "robust discussions" that you believe are "contrary views not tolerated". Get the idea?

 

[Veda]

Exactly!

I will mention at this point that the "Sales Industrial Complex" within the cult of Scientology employs the very same "technology" that Fair Game uses.

To wit, "lying" and "tricking" others to until they surrender that which cult leaders covet and crave from them. In this way, Scientology gurus regard their own customers, public and "parishioners" as "enemies" or "SPs" who need to be attacked and mugged for all their money and their time.

And Scientologists and "Indie" Scientologists think that the "low toned" and "toxic" and "criminal" and "unethical" and "anti social" and "evil-purposed" people are the EX Scientologists. LOL

I've been called a lot of of names too. Often, over time, the people who called the names changed for the better, and regretted the name calling,

 

[Veda]

Snipped.




NO ... WE WERE NOT.
YOU may have been an egotistical, evangelistic huckster/wannabe guru constantly on the hunt for fresh meat for the cult but as far as I can tell most here were victims of these often very charming monsters, myself included.

What is wrong with you Veda ... can you not understand the difference between a bog standard scientologist and one who determinedly goes out with a large net and a vat of strong glue intent on entrapping people?

Stop pretending to be so dense, if these sales people didn't exist, neither would the cult!

Sales people change too.

 

[onceuponatime]

So I don't want to get into the middle of this too much. My personal opinion, there's no need to be nice to newcomers/on the fence people. If they are already reading this message board or other sites they are already gone, they might just not know it yet. I don't think there's anything wrong with telling people it's all a load of crap. They will probably eventually come to that conclusion themselves. And if they don't then there are plenty of independent organizations/groups they can look into, we have no need to cater to them here.

I don't really care if someone leaves the church completely or continues as an independent. In my opinion the most damaging/toxic aspects of Scientology aren't nearly as prevalent in the independent field, so even tho I think it's all BS I don't really care if they continue with the tech or not.

That's my thoughts on the subject and all I'm going to post on this topic.

 

[Veda]

We have "robust discussions" that you believe are "contrary views not tolerated". Get the idea?

Uh?

At one time there were robust discussions that allowed for the expression of many views.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Sales people change too.

Yes Veda, and it's your job to make sure that they do (not mine).

 

[Veda]

Yes Veda, and it's your job to make sure that they do (not mine).

I hear you.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

So I don't want to get into the middle of this too much. My personal opinion, there's no need to be nice to newcomers/on the fence people. If they are already reading this message board or other sites they are already gone, they might just not know it yet. I don't think there's anything wrong with telling people it's all a load of crap. They will probably eventually come to that conclusion themselves. And if they don't then there are plenty of independent organizations/groups they can look into, we have no need to cater to them here.

I don't really care if someone leaves the church completely or continues as an independent. In my opinion the most damaging/toxic aspects of Scientology aren't nearly as prevalent in the independent field, so even tho I think it's all BS I don't really care if they continue with the tech or not.

That's my thoughts on the subject and all I'm going to post on this topic.

I agree with you ... but I do object to people coming here to hunt for raw meat (AKA ambulance chasing).