David Miscavige Commits a Suppressive Act (Again)

[Karen#1]

Excerpt:







No wonder Miscavige doesnt want the OEC Volumes available. People would be able to read what Hubbard said about a lot of things that Miscavige has engaged in. Fundraising instead of selling and delivering auditing and training. Placing great emphasis on the MEST of orgs. Locating orgs where there is no body traffic. Canceling the SHSBC (and the OEC Volumes).


But perhaps no policy more explicit and more draconian in its penalties than one titled Org Reduction and Eradication.


When announcing the new Paris org, he came right out and said it with no shame: “To start, this new ideal org combines two existing organizations. One a Class 5 organization, the other a Celebrity Center. And in combination will become a mega ideal organization.”~~~READ MORE

David Miscavige Commits a Suppressive Act (Again)

www.mikerindersblog.org

 

[Karakorum]

Yeah that is big.. It is one thing to do it behind closed doors and order a few SO around without the greater public being able to connect the dots.

Making a public statement an a mass event like that? Would NEVER happen in my day.

I think this proves that the cult had shrank to the core of Davey's fanboy deep-kool-aid-dinkers, some totally traumatized and terrorized public and a few 2nd and 3rd gens who have literally nowhere else to go.

There's nobody left who can or would dare to say that the emperor has no clothes.

 

[I M Dex]

Excerpt:







No wonder Miscavige doesnt want the OEC Volumes available. People would be able to read what Hubbard said about a lot of things that Miscavige has engaged in. Fundraising instead of selling and delivering auditing and training. Placing great emphasis on the MEST of orgs. Locating orgs where there is no body traffic. Canceling the SHSBC (and the OEC Volumes).


But perhaps no policy more explicit and more draconian in its penalties than one titled Org Reduction and Eradication.


When announcing the new Paris org, he came right out and said it with no shame: “To start, this new ideal org combines two existing organizations. One a Class 5 organization, the other a Celebrity Center. And in combination will become a mega ideal organization.”~~~READ MORE

David Miscavige Commits a Suppressive Act (Again)

www.mikerindersblog.org

From a "KSW" viewpoint, sure, he's a "know best" guy, and its contradictory for Scientologists to support him; from an outside the Scn bubble common sense perspective, compared to what a vicious bastard he's been, this doesn't crack the top 50 list of nasty unsupportable things he's done.

 

[Karakorum]

From a "KSW" viewpoint, sure, he's a "know best" guy, and its contradictory for Scientologists to support him; from an outside the Scn bubble common sense perspective, compared to what a vicious bastard he's been, this doesn't crack the top 50 list of nasty unsupportable things he's done.

Certainly. But it is surprisiig he admits to it in public. For most scientologists this is far worse than kicking Mike Rinder's ass or choking Debby Cook.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

i get that it's a good strategy to try to get still-ins questioning whether he's following the founder's directives -- or even violating them.

however from my outsider perspective digging into the history, i think Capt. Davey has actually done pretty well with a mid-century UFO cult -- what other, similar, group from that era is doing any better? he inherited an organization whose recruiting heyday was over, whose ideas and writings were hopelessly dated and increasingly discredited, plus the continual introduction of 'latest, greatest' things that were implicitly fixes for what had not worked as promised previously and which had kept things going all along, had been explicitly denied to him.

and i think true believers in management really expected that 'source' would come back and fix things if they could only hold on for a couple of decades -- a hope of rescue, that's now all but vanished. what are they to do now, facing that was a lie and an unrealistic expectation?

they don't even have enough people left, to continue to keep the smallest and weakest of the orgs open the full hours they're supposed to be. if anything, they should actually be doing more drastic consolidation.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

i get that it's a good strategy to try to get still-ins questioning whether he's following the founder's directives -- or even violating them.

however from my outsider perspective digging into the history, i think Capt. Davey has actually done pretty well with a mid-century UFO cult -- what other, similar, group from that era is doing any better? he inherited an organization whose recruiting heyday was over, whose ideas and writings were hopelessly dated and increasingly discredited, plus the continual introduction of 'latest, greatest' things that were implicitly fixes for what had not worked as promised previously and which had kept things going all along, had been explicitly denied to him.

and i think true believers in management really expected that 'source' would come back and fix things if they could only hold on for a couple of decades -- a hope of rescue, that's now all but vanished. what are they to do now, facing that was a lie and an unrealistic expectation?

they don't even have enough people left, to continue to keep the smallest and weakest of the orgs open the full hours they're supposed to be. if anything, they should actually be doing more drastic consolidation.

View attachment 24860

Sorry but I disagree. Had Miscavige been a different kind of person, he would have noticed that many of the people who jumped ship in the 1980s and even before were firm believers in the Tech and were simply unhappy with the spiralling prices and how the CofS was run, and he could have endeavoured to fix that.

Somewhere along these lines;

https://www.freezoneearth.org/pilot/reformer.html#reform

That way he could have kept the organisation going in roughly its same form and it wouldn't have shrunk to the rump it is now.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Sorry but I disagree. Had Miscavige been a different kind of person, he would have noticed that many of the people who jumped ship in the 1980s and even before were firm believers in the Tech and were simply unhappy with the spiralling prices and how the CofS was run, and he could have endeavoured to fix that.

Somewhere along these lines;

https://www.freezoneearth.org/pilot/reformer.html#reform

That way he could have kept the organisation going in roughly its same form and it wouldn't have shrunk to the rump it is now.

I think these points would be the bare minimum changes . without these interventions the whole thing should simply end. I don't have any belief left in the tech but at least the worst of the suppression should stop, if people want to remain in, that's their choice, but those that do want to remain on staff should have some form of life and the freedom to walk away any time they want.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Sorry but I disagree. Had Miscavige been a different kind of person, he would have noticed that many of the people who jumped ship in the 1980s and even before were firm believers in the Tech and were simply unhappy with the spiralling prices and how the CofS was run, and he could have endeavoured to fix that.

i appreciate that it can be seen that way. if DM had been a different person in that respect it might have worked -- but then if he wasn't who he was then the Broekers might have been left in control, caretakers of an organization in decline without clear leadership and doomed to dwindle precipitously (which was the sort of fate of a lot of other, similar groups of the era suffered).

i tend to think, again based in good part on digging through the history, that anything done to try to fix one problem, would have caused other problems -- that's how things have always worked, going back to those price increases, which were an attempt to keep income up as recruiting faltered, which in turn was partly caused by harsh ethics and introduction of the sea org disaffecting people and leading to people jumping ship, and which were then done to try to fix earlier problems....

and regardless, even if things were held together better until the '90s, there'd have been problems from just more firm believers making it to OT8 and realizing there was no further to go and they hadn't gotten what they expected -- or even committing suicide and dying of cancer -- plus recruiting dying up as scn aged badly and other societal trends like the internet doomed it. even if you can come up with a scenario that might have had the CoS 50% larger in the '90s, i can think of some plausible scenarios that could have resulted in them being no larger than they are today -- including for example that a larger membership would have spun off a larger, more energetic and power indie movement that would then have been more of a threat to the mother church.

i tend to think DM's focus on disconnection and cash extraction have been sort of deviously brilliant, leaving the CoS still punching above its weight and practically the last standing of '50s-60s cults.

also, what would have happened if LRH was still alive at 111? he wouldn't even be the world's oldest man. since he oversaw the beginning of the move to totalitarian control and money grabs, might he have done pretty much what DM has ended up doing? or would having him continue to be in charge after he'd run out of ideas and when there was no one else to blame (or whose return in reincarnated glory to hope for), have been worse and lead to a quicker demise?

 

[I M Dex]

Sorry but I disagree. Had Miscavige been a different kind of person, he would have noticed that many of the people who jumped ship in the 1980s and even before were firm believers in the Tech and were simply unhappy with the spiralling prices and how the CofS was run, and he could have endeavoured to fix that.

Somewhere along these lines;

https://www.freezoneearth.org/pilot/reformer.html#reform

That way he could have kept the organisation going in roughly its same form and it wouldn't have shrunk to the rump it is now.

This would never fly with the old guard, who believe in Hubbard's infallibility, KSW and define Scientology by everything he issued. It might serve as a basis for newer recruits, but it still would involve violating or cancelling KSW. Whether it be "tech", "admin" or "ethics", the basis of Scientology indoctrination and dogma is to be faithful to the words of Hubbard. But it certainly would do much to make Scientology somewhat less of a cancer, somewhat more palatable and somewhat less dangerous and disturbing.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

i appreciate that it can be seen that way. if DM had been a different person in that respect it might have worked -- but then if he wasn't who he was then the Broekers might have been left in control, caretakers of an organization in decline without clear leadership and doomed to dwindle precipitously (which was the sort of fate of a lot of other, similar groups of the era suffered).

i tend to think, again based in good part on digging through the history, that anything done to try to fix one problem, would have caused other problems -- that's how things have always worked, going back to those price increases, which were an attempt to keep income up as recruiting faltered, which in turn was partly caused by harsh ethics and introduction of the sea org disaffecting people and leading to people jumping ship, and which were then done to try to fix earlier problems....

and regardless, even if things were held together better until the '90s, there'd have been problems from just more firm believers making it to OT8 and realizing there was no further to go and they hadn't gotten what they expected -- or even committing suicide and dying of cancer -- plus recruiting dying up as scn aged badly and other societal trends like the internet doomed it. even if you can come up with a scenario that might have had the CoS 50% larger in the '90s, i can think of some plausible scenarios that could have resulted in them being no larger than they are today -- including for example that a larger membership would have spun off a larger, more energetic and power indie movement that would then have been more of a threat to the mother church.

i tend to think DM's focus on disconnection and cash extraction have been sort of deviously brilliant, leaving the CoS still punching above its weight and practically the last standing of '50s-60s cults.

also, what would have happened if LRH was still alive at 111? he wouldn't even be the world's oldest man. since he oversaw the beginning of the move to totalitarian control and money grabs, might he have done pretty much what DM has ended up doing? or would having him continue to be in charge after he'd run out of ideas and when there was no one else to blame (or whose return in reincarnated glory to hope for), have been worse and lead to a quicker demise?

Some fair points in the above especially about how solving problems creates newer problems, but I don't agree that the CofS is "punching above its weight." They hardly get any new recruits now and are despised almost everywhere in the human potential movement. On any metric apart from the financial one they are a complete disaster, and even on the financial one the money that doesn't get spent on Ideal Org white elephant buildings mostly gets funnelled into the pockets of Miscavige and the lawyers acting for him. A success story it isn't.

As for other cults, I've said before that the Rajneeshis were luckier than Scientology in that they were completely smashed by the US government after the Rajneeshpuram incident (where they tried to fix an election in Oregon and gave 750 people food poisoning - they were very lucky no one was killed).

The result was that what you now have left is basically one big independent Osho movement - therapists taking what they can of Osho's ideas and using them as they think best. That never happened with Scientology.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

This would never fly with the old guard, who believe in Hubbard's infallibility, KSW and define Scientology by everything he issued. It might serve as a basis for newer recruits, but it still would involve violating or cancelling KSW. Whether it be "tech", "admin" or "ethics", the basis of Scientology indoctrination and dogma is to be faithful to the words of Hubbard. But it certainly would do much to make Scientology somewhat less of a cancer, somewhat more palatable and somewhat less dangerous and disturbing.

Good points, you're probably right (and La La Lou Lou too).

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Some fair points in the above especially about how solving problems creates newer problems, but how is the CofS "punching above its weight"? They hardly get any new recruits now and are despised almost everywhere in the human potential movement. On any metric apart from the financial one they are a complete disaster.

i'm thinking particularly in terms of PR, and legal/political power -- and of course the size of the war chest they've accumulataed. but not in terms of things that really matter in the end, no.

i happened to have known some Rajneeshis at one point when i lived in an area where there was some of just about everything counter-cultural, but don't have a good sense of how they are doing comparatively. i don't see much about them these days, and it looks like they have 3 to 4 dozen groups in the US, only about half with even street addresses given, so my guess is that a like a lot of other groups of that era (including Eckankar) they are down to small bands of mostly old timers.

OSHO places to meditate

A complete list of Osho Information Centers. It is easy to meditate alone - how else? - but it can be more fun to enjoy the experience with others.

www.osho.com

but i know they are apparently one of those curious cases where they're surprising big in India.

and i haven't run across them in therapy. is there really more of that, than there are say people like Dex, or TIR practitioners?

 

[Pooks]

There are lots of old Scios that have been there for 30,40,50 years. Most will be aware of this policy that implies that to close or combine an org is way more suppressive than beating the crap out of anyone. Int management altering the tech or policy is what made me start questioning the cult. As a full-fledged brainwashed idiot, I was a follower of LRH tech, and shit like this would cause cognitive dissonance in me. Enough of them and the internet turned into a life-changing experience

 

[I M Dex]

i'm thinking particularly in terms of PR, and legal/political power -- and of course the size of the war chest they've accumulataed. but not in terms of things that really matter in the end, no.

i happened to have known some Rajneeshis at one point when i lived in an area where there was some of just about everything counter-cultural, but don't have a good sense of how they are doing comparatively. i don't see much about them these days, and it looks like they have 3 to 4 dozen groups in the US, only about half with even street addresses given, so my guess is that a like a lot of other groups of that era (including Eckankar) they are down to small bands of mostly old timers.

OSHO places to meditate

A complete list of Osho Information Centers. It is easy to meditate alone - how else? - but it can be more fun to enjoy the experience with others.

www.osho.com

but i know they are apparently one of those curious cases where they're surprising big in India.

and i haven't run across them in therapy. is there really more of that, than there are say people like Dex, or TIR practitioners?

I don't know that there are "people like Dex", or what you mean by that; for me, Scientology was for me an evolutionary stepping stone on a path I was on to begin with, which in that sense I am grateful for, albeit I have progressed to recognize the basic and less basic flaws in the principles and practices, and what I do now would seem counter-intuitive to an indoctrinated Scientologist. As with my LSD experiences so long ago, I gained valuable perception and recognition that I wouldn't want to give back, but I wouldn't recommend for someone to take that trip today. I've been supporting myself full time with my own developed "therapeutic spiritual counseling" techniques and practice for 13 or 14 years now. I've trained about a dozen people, and I'm not sure if any of them have developed a full time practice. And in accordance with my approach, I've encouraged and supported their doing things their own way, once they've absorbed my mentoring, and finding their own voice, which I believe will serve them best, rather than considering what I provide to be carved in stone. I don't think its right to use this site to promote, but anyone can Google my name to find my website.
As to TIR practitioners, my educated guess is that there are something like 100 active people, if that. And I don't know that anyone has made it their main or sole vocation.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

There are lots of old Scios that have been there for 30,40,50 years. Most will be aware of this policy that implies that to close or combine an org is way more suppressive than beating the crap out of anyone. Int management altering the tech or policy is what made me start questioning the cult. As a full-fledged brainwashed idiot, I was a follower of LRH tech, and shit like this would cause cognitive dissonance in me. Enough of them and the internet turned into a life-changing experience

thanks for chiming in at that.

i know that at the one org i knew the most about, there were a bunch of old timers -- but not very active, showing up mostly for a couple of big events a year to socialize.

are the active members -- or staff -- aware of such things, and actually thinking about them? i tend to suspect that those still heavily involved at this point, either don't know or have pushed thoughts about such things completely out of their minds, particularly when it comes to something comparatively minor like combining at Class V org (DM explicitly called Paris that) with a CC (which he avoided categorizing, perhaps carefully tiptoeing around it).

oh, and some org still act as if the CC is a separate org -- sort of like the difference between day and foundation, that is also getting quietly collapsed some places. Nashville still even apparently tries to have it both ways:

 

[Reyne Mayer]

I don't know that there are "people like Dex", or what you mean by that

dammit, Dex, can't you stay in the pigeonhole i put you in?!

anyway, sorry, as i was typing that it was in the back of my mind that i probably should have been more clear. i was thinking something along the lines of as Cat's Squirrel put it, 'therapists taking what they can of [whoever's] ideas and using them as they think best'. not specifically auditing or whatever, but incorporating or evolving some of it -- however you want to put it, and of course that's going to vary both in how people do it and in how they describe it.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

i'm thinking particularly in terms of PR, and legal/political power -- and of course the size of the war chest they've accumulataed. but not in terms of things that really matter in the end, no.

i happened to have known some Rajneeshis at one point when i lived in an area where there was some of just about everything counter-cultural, but don't have a good sense of how they are doing comparatively. i don't see much about them these days, and it looks like they have 3 to 4 dozen groups in the US, only about half with even street addresses given, so my guess is that a like a lot of other groups of that era (including Eckankar) they are down to small bands of mostly old timers.

OSHO places to meditate

A complete list of Osho Information Centers. It is easy to meditate alone - how else? - but it can be more fun to enjoy the experience with others.

www.osho.com

but i know they are apparently one of those curious cases where they're surprising big in India.

and i haven't run across them in therapy. is there really more of that, than there are say people like Dex, or TIR practitioners?

Here's the UK list. I assume there's one for the US as well;

https://oshoinuk.com/therapists/

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

I don't know that there are "people like Dex", or what you mean by that; for me, Scientology was for me an evolutionary stepping stone on a path I was on to begin with, which in that sense I am grateful for, albeit I have progressed to recognize the basic and less basic flaws in the principles and practices, and what I do now would seem counter-intuitive to an indoctrinated Scientologist. As with my LSD experiences so long ago, I gained valuable perception and recognition that I wouldn't want to give back, but I wouldn't recommend for someone to take that trip today. I've been supporting myself full time with my own developed "therapeutic spiritual counseling" techniques and practice for 13 or 14 years now. I've trained about a dozen people, and I'm not sure if any of them have developed a full time practice. And in accordance with my approach, I've encouraged and supported their doing things their own way, once they've absorbed my mentoring, and finding their own voice, which I believe will serve them best, rather than considering what I provide to be carved in stone. I don't think its right to use this site to promote, but anyone can Google my name to find my website.
As to TIR practitioners, my educated guess is that there are something like 100 active people, if that. And I don't know that anyone has made it their main or sole vocation.

Here's the listing for the US. There are probably somewhere over 100 in total worldwide, but not a lot more;

TIR Practitioners in United States

ONLINE SESSIONS AVAILABLE NOW Meeting the need for effective help in stressful times Look for this icon to find a practitioner who is doing online sessions It is highly recommended that if possi…

www.tira.org

and for Europe. There seem to be a lot in Slovakia for some reason.

TIR Practitioners in Europe & The Middle East

ONLINE SESSIONS AVAILABLE NOW Meeting the need for effective help in stressful times Look for this icon to find a practitioner who is doing online sessions Certified TIR Facilitator Listings It …

www.tira.org

 

[I M Dex]

dammit, Dex, can't you stay in the pigeonhole i put you in?!

anyway, sorry, as i was typing that it was in the back of my mind that i probably should have been more clear. i was thinking something along the lines of as Cat's Squirrel put it, 'therapists taking what they can of [whoever's] ideas and using them as they think best'. not specifically auditing or whatever, but incorporating or evolving some of it -- however you want to put it, and of course that's going to vary both in how people do it and in how they describe it.

I just wanted to ensure that the world could breathe a sigh of relief, knowing they are safe from the prospect of "people like Dex".

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...i think Capt. Davey has actually done pretty well with a mid-century UFO cult -- what other, similar, group from that era is doing any better? he inherited an organization whose recruiting heyday was over, whose ideas and writings were hopelessly dated and increasingly discredited, plus the continual introduction of 'latest, greatest' things that were implicitly fixes for what had not worked as promised previously and which had kept things going all along, had been explicitly denied to him.

Outstanding perspective! I only have one micro tweak I'd like to offer regarding the term "UFO cult".

FIFY​

IFO cult​

Because, to be quite fair, Dr. Hubbard went to extraordinary measures to Identify those flying objects. They are, in fact, painstakingly detailed within COS scripture!

The Identified Flying Objects were clearly
revealed to be intergalactic DC-8s!

Many hundreds of millions of flights were arranged to transport the
unproductive & worthless members of that 75M year old civilization
to Earth--which served during that time as a Rehabilitation Project Force.
The busted beings were then given a 2nd chance to reform and get their ethics
in. During that era, LRH had not yet discovered the modern science of rehabilitation
(e.g. chain lockers, overboards, double-wide trailer prisons known as "the hole",
inward facing barbed wire to prevent escape, blow drills, et al) and thus
they used existing technology--such as throwing people in volanoes
and blowing them up with H-Bombs after which they had
to endure watching 36 days of cinematic implants (during
which they were forced to stand, applaud and cheer
every time a soaring graph appeared on screen)


...​