Wanting out and the fear of Disconnection.

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

I am so lucky to have gotten out with my significant other. It was never in question, at least to her. I did not know that. I still work for a scamatologist, a good guy but he is under pressure from ethics since he is trying to make his way up the bridge. As a result, I had to meet with an MAA and maneuver my way through those wickets. Never a dull moment!!
.

Quite impressive that you passed an MAA investigation! Such persons have blink-less and deeply-darkly penetrating tone 40 eyes and electronic lie detectors! Additionally, MAAs personally possess advanced and unreasonable ethical standards that one can only find up-lines---where perfectly pure and ethical OTs are expertly managing the affairs of homo sapiens on this planet.

I was always mystified why all of Scientology's MAAs end up blowing! I had a huge win once when I clay demo'd it and realized that their personal ethics standards are so majestically high that it's not actually a "blow" from overts when they suddenly leave---it's that there are so many low-toned, out-ethics beings in the org that they are forced to disconnect from them.

Ron states in an audio lecture that theta should always "cut an entheta line", so this explains both MAA's not showing up at morning muster as well as Ron's emergency measures to hide in a Bluebird motorhome just before disconnecting from this planet.


.
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
.


.


Quite impressive that you passed an MAA investigation! Such persons have blink-less and deeply-darkly penetrating tone 40 eyes and electronic lie detectors! Additionally, MAAs personally possess advanced and unreasonable ethical standards that one can only find up-lines---where perfectly pure and ethical OTs are expertly managing the affairs of homo sapiens on this planet.

I was always mystified why all of Scientology's MAAs end up blowing! I had a huge win once when I clay demo'd it and realized that their personal ethics standards are so majestically high that it's not actually a "blow" from overts when they suddenly leave---it's that there are so many low-toned, out-ethics beings in the org that they are forced to disconnect from them.

Ron states in an audio lecture that theta should always "cut an entheta line", so this explains both MAA's not showing up at morning muster as well as Ron's emergency measures to hide in a Bluebird motorhome just before disconnecting from this planet.


.
I only made it by virtue of the org being closed due to Covid!! Otherwise, I would have had to dive sideways somehow and not hold the cans and have an official interview. Social distancing an ethics interview, done with masks and all the trimmings!!

I still haven't asked the friends that were receiving auditing at that time, "Was your auditing done with Muzzled TR's? Muzzled due to the mask??"
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
I only made it by virtue of the org being closed due to Covid!! Otherwise, I would have had to dive sideways somehow and not hold the cans and have an official interview. Social distancing an ethics interview, done with masks and all the trimmings!!

I still haven't asked the friends that were receiving auditing at that time, "Was your auditing done with Muzzled TR's? Muzzled due to the mask??"
.

Just remember, the covid virus only attacks the Ideal Org (and Ideal OTs inside) when they are winning.

After reading your success story of using acceptable truths and shore stories tech on the MAA, I got inspired. I just left an ethics interview at the org and they put me on the cans and asked some really shocking questions---as if they already knew all my suppressive thoughts about Dr. Hubbard and Dr. Miscavige!!!

Using your tech, I was somehow able to pass the meter check without any telltale reads, dirty needles or rock slams.

I'm not entirely sure how I made it go right, but it may have had something to do with the fact that I was holding the cans while wearing rubber surgical gloves.

.
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
.

Just remember, the covid virus only attacks the Ideal Org (and Ideal OTs inside) when they are winning.

After reading your success story of using acceptable truths and shore stories tech on the MAA, I got inspired. I just left an ethics interview at the org and they put me on the cans and asked some really shocking questions---as if they already knew all my suppressive thoughts about Dr. Hubbard and Dr. Miscavige!!!

Using your tech, I was somehow able to pass the meter check without any telltale reads, dirty needles or rock slams.

I'm not entirely sure how I made it go right, but it may have had something to do with the fact that I was holding the cans while wearing rubber surgical gloves.

.
I am now recalling the odd sense of talking to SP's when I first started posting on the board. I haven't been declared, and it seems that whole action has slowed up apparently over the years.

Maybe they got tired of people posting their ridiculous SP Declares all over the interwebs???

Just another unlearning exercise that one has to do on their own, flushing out their head gear of the deeply implanted trickery of the fat man from Tilden. It's actually a relief to know there isn't such a thing as an SP, really. Just people that WOKE THE FUCK UP about the scam.

Actually I'm in good standing, other than not being broke, not being under the thumb of an MAA and not being seduced by the carrot of OT powers that don't exist!!!
 

Bill

Well-known member
Welcome! You are definitely doing the correct thing.

Remember: The Church has no power over you. You don't have to do anything the Church says -- and that includes letting them know anything about your thoughts and decisions. Ignore them, lie to them, whatever ... they have zero power over you.

Except, of course, the power to make others disconnect from you. I've mentioned this before and I don't want to seem like I'm promoting my site but Scientologists: How to Stay “Under the Radar” contains my attempt to help people in your situation. It contains ideas from when I was under the radar and other's workable techniques.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
- - - If you have close friends who are Scientologists, you are being surveilled just like Winston Smith in Orwell's book "1984". At any moment you might well be reported to the "thought police" by means of a Knowledge Report.
And if one of your friends or acquaintances gets caught reading a heretical message board or book, they'll possibly "roll over" on you and blame you for being a "bad influence," as a way to lessen their own penalty. Snitching and helping locate a "real SP" would be a mitigating factor during the "penalty and sentencing phase." Always is. Don't ask me how I know all this. :coolwink:

Think Sammy "The Bull" Gravano ratting out his mob pals for a lighter sentence.
I only made it by virtue of the org being closed due to Covid!!
Hell, "Covid fear" could possibly be a good excuse for four or five years. Just tell them you've been so traumatized by the Covid threat that you just don't go anywhere anymore . . . ever, except home and work. Also fear of touching all surfaces, especially metal.

I'd sure give it a try. :coolwink:

"Covid" Agoraphobia (I made up this variation of a known anxiety)​
Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder, a fear and avoidance of places outside your house,​
where you might feel panic, entrapment, helplessness, or embarrassment.​
 
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Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
Hell, "Covid fear" could possibly be a good excuse for four or five years. Just tell them you've been so traumatized by the Covid threat that you just don't go anywhere anymore . . . ever, except home and work. Also fear of touching all surfaces, especially metal.

I'd sure give it a try. :coolwink:

"Covid" Agoraphobia (I made up this variation of a known anxiety)​
Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder, a fear and avoidance of places outside your house,​
where you might feel panic, entrapment, helplessness, or embarrassment.​
Hmmmm... just gotta keep that up until I retire!!! I totally could!!!!
 

Olifay

Member
Hey everyone. First of all thanks to you all. Like I said, feels good to be able to say all this and feel welcome, and most of all understood.
Hmmmm... just gotta keep that up until I retire!!! I totally could!!!!
I once was sent to an org’s FSC as a reg, so on the ATC did the Hard Sales course, don’t remember the exact name. I personally would use that fear to sell you auditing. Dianetics and Scientology are the only way to cure that irrational fear. Will that be cash or credit? Mkthx.

At the beginning of this year I had decided I would give a new life a shot. Problem was once again, I counted on my family to help me start up again. I got a job with a Scientologist as an IT I/T(I had lightly programmed in the past). After 10 years of kitchen work (all in posts with a fair amount of leadership, as one can expect from an ex-so), I felt this was a step up. Bzzzzzt. My new boss tells me two weeks in, on first pay that he’s thought this awesome way to help my eternity! He would take some of my pay to put on my freeloader debt. This became the first instance of me telling one of them to buzz off. Then, I started looking, because I had to find a reason for all the insanity we live through as SO kids. So, as you know I got here.

GOOD NEWS! I’m signing my lease on an apartment today. Only two other people know right now. And you guys. Once I’m in my own place, I will have to get on some serious planning. I will take all the advice and comments you have given me, as help.

The hard part is to come. I don’t want to be silent about it and hide and strategize around it in my relationships anymore. That means, if not anytime soon, eventually, something will happen. I don’t feel for my parents much. Not sad about it either. Indifferent, they were never around much. But I know it will destroy them, being presented with the choice. And if it comes to it, I wish for them to keep to their beliefs. They do good because of it. Andit would be a shame for them to lose this. Sorry, I’m kinda laying out a lot. If anything, thanks for allowing me to. It feels good to talk.

olifay (need a new one... I’ll think of something)

p.s.Do you think one of Them actually has the time to try to look up who we are? I mean forums are not that frequented right? Because if they do, message to you: “Maybe this is why you are not clearing the planet yet. Go do something useful with your time. Mkthx, DisgruntledFay”
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
Hey everyone. First of all thanks to you all. Like I said, feels good to be able to say all this and feel welcome, and most of all understood.


I once was sent to an org’s FSC as a reg, so on the ATC did the Hard Sales course, don’t remember the exact name. I personally would use that fear to sell you auditing. Dianetics and Scientology are the only way to cure that irrational fear. Will that be cash or credit? Mkthx.

At the beginning of this year I had decided I would give a new life a shot. Problem was once again, I counted on my family to help me start up again. I got a job with a Scientologist as an IT I/T(I had lightly programmed in the past). After 10 years of kitchen work (all in posts with a fair amount of leadership, as one can expect from an ex-so), I felt this was a step up. Bzzzzzt. My new boss tells me two weeks in, on first pay that he’s thought this awesome way to help my eternity! He would take some of my pay to put on my freeloader debt. This became the first instance of me telling one of them to buzz off. Then, I started looking, because I had to find a reason for all the insanity we live through as SO kids. So, as you know I got here.

GOOD NEWS! I’m signing my lease on an apartment today. Only two other people know right now. And you guys. Once I’m in my own place, I will have to get on some serious planning. I will take all the advice and comments you have given me, as help.

The hard part is to come. I don’t want to be silent about it and hide and strategize around it in my relationships anymore. That means, if not anytime soon, eventually, something will happen. I don’t feel for my parents much. Not sad about it either. Indifferent, they were never around much. But I know it will destroy them, being presented with the choice. And if it comes to it, I wish for them to keep to their beliefs. They do good because of it. Andit would be a shame for them to lose this. Sorry, I’m kinda laying out a lot. If anything, thanks for allowing me to. It feels good to talk.

olifay (need a new one... I’ll think of something)

p.s.Do you think one of Them actually has the time to try to look up who we are? I mean forums are not that frequented right? Because if they do, message to you: “Maybe this is why you are not clearing the planet yet. Go do something useful with your time. Mkthx, DisgruntledFay”
Fantastic on the lease!!! One more step towards your REAL freedom!!!

Thanks for sharing with us, we like the good news of someone freeing themselves of the beast!

Ugh, and I do know Hard Sell. Blah blah blah Hard Sell means caring enough about the person to get him through his stops and barriers and get the service that will rehabilitate him blah blah blah. Oh, and there is that other one about advanced courses "if the captain doesn't understand Hard Sell", whatever.

I can't rightly say that anyone can look anyone up here.
 

onceuponatime

Well-known member
Fantastic news and great work.

I'm not trying to scare you or anything but you should know that osa monitors these forums. I'm absolutely sure of that.

If you're trying to stay utr I would be careful about posting too much identifiable info. I know you plan on being honest with people and coming out to them. But it's a matter of you coming out to them on your timeline vs being forced to do it when you maybe aren't totally prepared.

Again, not trying to scare you at all, personally I don't think osa has any real power. Just something to keep in mind. I'm sure you'd rather be the one to come out to your family rather than them being called in by an maa.
 

Karen#1

Well-known member
A warm welcome to you:rose:

I can very much relate.
As the cult got darker and darker, I lived in this condition of wanting out but fully aware of the consequences.
My son was Sea Org and I knew if I left and spoke out that would be the end of any relationship with him.
Because the cult is vengeful and retaliatory and there is payback for leaving the flock and joining other like minded folk.

Eventually I came right out. They got my son and disconnection followed. He died at 27 years old, orphaned with his father
in their famous SP hole and a mother who was declared SP.

This cult is a destruction of family cult. It is their speciality.

Sending you lots of good wishes and support.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
The vital first steps are

1) Getting your own living space from which you cannot be kicked out of, if the Org is upset with you.
2) Get a job which the Org cannot pressure your employer to fire you from

Once those are accomplished, things get much easier.

As long as they think they CAN make your life miserable, then they will attempt to control you. Cut the strings which allow them to treat you as their puppet. Once they understand that they have no "leverage" on you, then they will be less likely to do things that might piss you off.

One last vital thing: have a stable way for your old family and friends to contact you if they are forced to disconnect, but then later need somebody to help THEM when they decide to leave themselves. Have several stable contact methods, and make sure they know about them.
 

Bill

Well-known member
Hey everyone. First of all thanks to you all. Like I said, feels good to be able to say all this and feel welcome, and most of all understood.


I once was sent to an org’s FSC as a reg, so on the ATC did the Hard Sales course, don’t remember the exact name. I personally would use that fear to sell you auditing. Dianetics and Scientology are the only way to cure that irrational fear. Will that be cash or credit? Mkthx.

At the beginning of this year I had decided I would give a new life a shot. Problem was once again, I counted on my family to help me start up again. I got a job with a Scientologist as an IT I/T(I had lightly programmed in the past). After 10 years of kitchen work (all in posts with a fair amount of leadership, as one can expect from an ex-so), I felt this was a step up. Bzzzzzt. My new boss tells me two weeks in, on first pay that he’s thought this awesome way to help my eternity! He would take some of my pay to put on my freeloader debt. This became the first instance of me telling one of them to buzz off. Then, I started looking, because I had to find a reason for all the insanity we live through as SO kids. So, as you know I got here.

GOOD NEWS! I’m signing my lease on an apartment today. Only two other people know right now. And you guys. Once I’m in my own place, I will have to get on some serious planning. I will take all the advice and comments you have given me, as help.

The hard part is to come. I don’t want to be silent about it and hide and strategize around it in my relationships anymore. That means, if not anytime soon, eventually, something will happen. I don’t feel for my parents much. Not sad about it either. Indifferent, they were never around much. But I know it will destroy them, being presented with the choice. And if it comes to it, I wish for them to keep to their beliefs. They do good because of it. Andit would be a shame for them to lose this. Sorry, I’m kinda laying out a lot. If anything, thanks for allowing me to. It feels good to talk.

olifay (need a new one... I’ll think of something)

p.s.Do you think one of Them actually has the time to try to look up who we are? I mean forums are not that frequented right? Because if they do, message to you: “Maybe this is why you are not clearing the planet yet. Go do something useful with your time. Mkthx, DisgruntledFay”
On disconnection, the important thing for you to remember is that you never have to disconnect from anyone. I'm sure this has been said before but, if someone disconnects from you, say "I will never disconnect from you" to them.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Hi. I have been thinking and hoping I would have the balls to do this eventually, so here I am. I am a second-generation Scientologist, currently approaching or starting my 30s (keeping it vague :p). I joined the SO and subsequently left three times. First, at the cadet org at 8, leaving the base at 13. Then, 16 until 18, and finally my one year stint at 20. Needless to say, I was not very on-purpose!
I would be glad to go into further details of this part of my life in later posts if there is interest. The purpose of my current post is, I need advice or at least a verbal kick in the butt.
Even though I did leave the Sea Org and have not really been at an Org since, my close family is comprised only of true, passionate believers. It kept my chained to the thought patterns and basic beliefs a long time. I had never, until very recently, even dared look up anything online. I heard about the shows, but you tend to keep that to yourself and try to not get further in, for fear of being found.
Then, I started reading Mike and Tony’s blog. I have always hated what happened with my life, the lack of choice I had, and always kept it to myself. I also justified this by telling myself I was probably the exception, not the rule. I had seen other young SO go in, and stay in and to this day they seem very happy. My siblings are SO members, almost 30 yrs strong each. And so, reading the stories of others who went though similar, or worse situations, it clicked. This place was hell. And I now saw it was designed to be.
So, I am now renting a room from one of those Scientologist family members, reading all this stuff I am not supposed to. And I am at a point where I don’t know if I can go through leaving for real, as I know I need to, so I can start making a real me.
I know that just posting this has its risks. If I was to finally tell my family what I truly thought, they would have to make a choice. And it would destroy my parents. And it’s hard. But I don’t think I can just “get past it” and go on quietly, as if they had done nothing wrong. Please, AITA for forcing this choice on them, knowingly?

Sorry, this is a long post, and I wrote it as I was thinking, so maybe a little incoherent? I don’t write much.

TL.DR: Is it okay to knowingly destroy your own family because of this group’s policies?

Thanks. A person wanting to leave.
(How hard is clicking that post thread button)
The only thing you need to do is stop communicating about scientology. Find new interests and talk about that, just get on with your life and don't worry about it.

You just need to slowly walk away, it will take some time, and you don't need to say anything, just sort of move on, step by step.

You can do it, as others have done, and you don't need to be a hero about it.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
Hi. I have been thinking and hoping I would have the balls to do this eventually, so here I am. I am a second-generation Scientologist, currently approaching or starting my 30s (keeping it vague :p). I joined the SO and subsequently left three times. First, at the cadet org at 8, leaving the base at 13. Then, 16 until 18, and finally my one year stint at 20. Needless to say, I was not very on-purpose!
I would be glad to go into further details of this part of my life in later posts if there is interest. The purpose of my current post is, I need advice or at least a verbal kick in the butt.
Even though I did leave the Sea Org and have not really been at an Org since, my close family is comprised only of true, passionate believers. It kept my chained to the thought patterns and basic beliefs a long time. I had never, until very recently, even dared look up anything online. I heard about the shows, but you tend to keep that to yourself and try to not get further in, for fear of being found.
Then, I started reading Mike and Tony’s blog. I have always hated what happened with my life, the lack of choice I had, and always kept it to myself. I also justified this by telling myself I was probably the exception, not the rule. I had seen other young SO go in, and stay in and to this day they seem very happy. My siblings are SO members, almost 30 yrs strong each. And so, reading the stories of others who went though similar, or worse situations, it clicked. This place was hell. And I now saw it was designed to be.
So, I am now renting a room from one of those Scientologist family members, reading all this stuff I am not supposed to. And I am at a point where I don’t know if I can go through leaving for real, as I know I need to, so I can start making a real me.
I know that just posting this has its risks. If I was to finally tell my family what I truly thought, they would have to make a choice. And it would destroy my parents. And it’s hard. But I don’t think I can just “get past it” and go on quietly, as if they had done nothing wrong. Please, AITA for forcing this choice on them, knowingly?

Sorry, this is a long post, and I wrote it as I was thinking, so maybe a little incoherent? I don’t write much.

TL.DR: Is it okay to knowingly destroy your own family because of this group’s policies?

Thanks. A person wanting to leave.
(How hard is clicking that post thread button)

Hi Olifay and welcome to ESMBR.

:welcome2::welcome2::welcome2:

Congratulations ... you have already taken the most important steps to freedom by joining us and signing up for your own apartment ... the rest will now fall into place gradually at whatever pace you choose.

I suggest that you think carefully about the stress it could put on you if you decide to try and stay 'under the radar' for the convenience of other cult members (including your parents). It may sound heartless but your peace of mind should be the absolute priority now and there is no peace of mind when living a constant pretence, nobody should have to do that. I freed myself totally (after many years UTR) and the relief was instant ... two losses were fairly instant too but it was the right thing to do (for me) and forced me to rethink family relationships and the value I had attached to them but were clearly not reciprocated when push came to shove.

I couldn't have cared less about any synthetic cult 'friends' disconnecting from me ... I was truly happy to see the arse-end of the lot of them possibly because I knew they were fair-weather friends all along as all most cult members are, it's part of the culture.

You don't owe anyone anything with regards to the cult and nobody can make you rush to decide how you want to now live your life.

I hope whichever way you choose to go works out well for you and it sounds to me as if it will.

Your life ... your rules, your pace.

;)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Hi Olifay and welcome to ESMBR.

:welcome2::welcome2::welcome2:

Congratulations ... you have already taken the most important steps to freedom by joining us and signing up for your own apartment ... the rest will now fall into place gradually at whatever pace you choose.

I suggest that you think carefully about the stress it could put on you if you decide to try and stay 'under the radar' for the convenience of other cult members (including your parents). It may sound heartless but your peace of mind should be the absolute priority now and there is no peace of mind when living a constant pretence, nobody should have to do that. I freed myself totally (after many years UTR) and the relief was instant ... two losses were fairly instant too but it was the right thing to do (for me) and forced me to rethink family relationships and the value I had attached to them but were clearly not reciprocated when push came to shove.

I couldn't have cared less about any synthetic cult 'friends' disconnecting from me ... I was truly happy to see the arse-end of the lot of them possibly because I knew they were fair-weather friends all along as all most cult members are, it's part of the culture.

You don't owe anyone anything with regards to the cult and nobody can make you rush to decide how you want to now live your life.

I hope whichever way you choose to go works out well for you and it sounds to me as if it will.

Your life ... your rules, your pace.

;)
.

That was some truly outstanding advice!

It occurred to me while reading it (and having experienced it when leaving) that Scientology wants everyone else to play strictly by the rules! However, they continuously lie and cheat.

There is another dimension too. Scientology is at war with everyone. They are battling the psychs, the media, the squirrels, the SPs, the writers, the documentarians, the investigative journalists, the debunkers, the ex-Scientologists, the indie scientologists, the victims of the physical and psychological assaults that sued and/or went to the police, the former high profile celebrities/execs who now are whistleblowers and anyone who has a little bit of cash or credit that Scientology can steal.

War!

If you try to play nice with them, they still aren't nice. They are relentless until you succumb and agree with them and until you---obey!

That's why it's so smart what you said: "Your life ... your rules, your pace."

And that's why it's advisable to forfeit the pointless losing game of trying to make Scientologists happy or placate them. They are never satisfied until you are under their complete toxic control. If you try to please them, and actually clear the planet, you'll nonetheless be severely reprimanded for betraying and sabotaging Ron because you didn't make it go right to also salvage this sector.

I don't have a good opinion of Scientologists. LOL!

:hattip:

.
 
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Whattodo

Member
Hi Olifay,

What points or experiences made you feel that things just didn't seem right?

Scientology always claims to be the fastest growing religion but did you see the lack of numbers in orgs and question this?
 

Olifay

Member
Hi Olifay,

What points or experiences made you feel that things just didn't seem right?

Scientology always claims to be the fastest growing religion but did you see the lack of numbers in orgs and question this?
To be honest, I’m certain I was never that high on the koolaid. I was mostly admin, and barely did any auditing. Other than brief random talks with parents, I wasn’t aware of PT going ons. My last Scientologist boss telling me HE would take my money from my pay to pay my not-a-debt-debt was my turn to the dark side. Then as I’ve been living with Scientologists, I have overheard weekly events and whatnot, recently telling them they had a target of 500k for the next two weeks, not sure which of whatever scams it was for. Then I realized, these public are placing their financial well being at risk for an Idea Org that they must know they cannot staff. And I realized for the first time that it’s not gonna get anywhere. And it’s sad for them.
Thanks for everyone else’s advice. As soon as I get into my new place, I’ll let them know I want nothing to do with it. And when they try to handle me, then I’ll know they won’t understand, so I’ll make a move then, maybe get me some goldenrod to frame :p
Going to work, have a beautiful day everyone .
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
On disconnection, the important thing for you to remember is that you never have to disconnect from anyone. I'm sure this has been said before but, if someone disconnects from you, say "I will never disconnect from you" to them.
Or, alternately, say (for actual loved ones, rather than fair-weather friends):
"I understand that you need to disconnect in order to remain in good standing with Scientology.
If you ever want to reconnect, I will be here for you always".
 
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Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I freed myself totally (after many years UTR) and the relief was instant ... two losses were fairly instant too but it was the right thing to do (for me) and forced me to rethink family relationships and the value I had attached to them but were clearly not reciprocated when push came to shove.
An appropriate viewpoint, from another thread:

 
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