Wanting out and the fear of Disconnection.

Karakorum

Well-known member
Hey everyone. First of all thanks to you all. Like I said, feels good to be able to say all this and feel welcome, and most of all understood.


I once was sent to an org’s FSC as a reg, so on the ATC did the Hard Sales course, don’t remember the exact name. I personally would use that fear to sell you auditing. Dianetics and Scientology are the only way to cure that irrational fear. Will that be cash or credit? Mkthx.

At the beginning of this year I had decided I would give a new life a shot. Problem was once again, I counted on my family to help me start up again. I got a job with a Scientologist as an IT I/T(I had lightly programmed in the past). After 10 years of kitchen work (all in posts with a fair amount of leadership, as one can expect from an ex-so), I felt this was a step up. Bzzzzzt. My new boss tells me two weeks in, on first pay that he’s thought this awesome way to help my eternity! He would take some of my pay to put on my freeloader debt. This became the first instance of me telling one of them to buzz off. Then, I started looking, because I had to find a reason for all the insanity we live through as SO kids. So, as you know I got here.

GOOD NEWS! I’m signing my lease on an apartment today. Only two other people know right now. And you guys. Once I’m in my own place, I will have to get on some serious planning. I will take all the advice and comments you have given me, as help.

The hard part is to come. I don’t want to be silent about it and hide and strategize around it in my relationships anymore. That means, if not anytime soon, eventually, something will happen. I don’t feel for my parents much. Not sad about it either. Indifferent, they were never around much. But I know it will destroy them, being presented with the choice. And if it comes to it, I wish for them to keep to their beliefs. They do good because of it. Andit would be a shame for them to lose this. Sorry, I’m kinda laying out a lot. If anything, thanks for allowing me to. It feels good to talk.

olifay (need a new one... I’ll think of something)

p.s.Do you think one of Them actually has the time to try to look up who we are? I mean forums are not that frequented right? Because if they do, message to you: “Maybe this is why you are not clearing the planet yet. Go do something useful with your time. Mkthx, DisgruntledFay”
Hi and welcome to the forums.

Leaving scn behind is a big decision for every second-gen, especially if this is what you knew all your life. Trust me - I've walked that road, left the SO over a decade ago myself.

Disconnection is something that needs to be taken into account. For me it was very easy, but that is not the same for everyone. You need to weigh the pros and cons and make that decision on your own. My opinion is that the freedom of mind that you get is worth it.

Keep looking for a job and do not fall into desperation if you can't find anything decent instantly (especially now with the covid19 slowdown). The church loves to scare people by telling them that they will never make it big outside of scn, that they will end up washing dishes for the rest of their lives... don't you believe it! That's one of the biggest lies of them all.

Anyone with experience of tough work on staff or especially in the SO will be appreciated in the corporate world. When Nate Rich was kicked out of scn, he went homeless for a time - now he is a CTO (Chief Technical Officer) in a major software industry corporation. I myself have a lower management job with a financial institution for a few years now.

There is life after scn, there is financial success after scn. You can go places, you can get a degree or learn a new trade. I can tell you from experience - all of that is possible. If you are not afraid of hard work and have your wits about you (I'm sure you do since you have management experience in the SO), the the world is wide open.

TL: DR version: I won't advise you on the family/disconnection. But as far as employment/career goes - make the jump, you have what it takes to make it big.

To be honest, I’m certain I was never that high on the koolaid. I was mostly admin, and barely did any auditing. Other than brief random talks with parents, I wasn’t aware of PT going ons.
Same as it was with me. I think this mindset is pretty frequent amongst us 2nd gen peeps.
 
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Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
Welcome. You now know the secret of Scientology that you weren't supposed to know. You are now an SP. You now know more about Scientology than all the Scientologists in good standing put together. You now know that the world is full of silly, awful, frauds and that Scientology is one such fraud. You will probably spend a lot of time and energy thinking about your experience in this cult. That seems to be normal. Most ex-cult members spend an awful lot of time trying to figure it all out.
 

The Oracle

Not the same Oracle from a decade ago
The vital first steps are

1) Getting your own living space from which you cannot be kicked out of, if the Org is upset with you.
2) Get a job which the Org cannot pressure your employer to fire you from

Once those are accomplished, things get much easier.

As long as they think they CAN make your life miserable, then they will attempt to control you. Cut the strings which allow them to treat you as their puppet. Once they understand that they have no "leverage" on you, then they will be less likely to do things that might piss you off.

One last vital thing: have a stable way for your old family and friends to contact you if they are forced to disconnect, but then later need somebody to help THEM when they decide to leave themselves. Have several stable contact methods, and make sure they know about them.
In other words, remove all Scientology snares, hooks and traps from yourself.
You can simply distance yourself from the crazy cult members. Be pleasant and helpful but never let a Scientologist help you including parents and family
It’s dangerous for your well being because it is their nature to want something back FOR the cult
Freedom is waiting
It is awesome to be out not fearing the mind control tactics they use on each other
 
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Riddick

I clap to no man
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TrevAnon

Big list researcher
Welcome out!

I was never in and didn't and don't have family in so I'll let the others give advice.

I just glanced through the thread. Have not seen a link to the Aftermath foundation though:


(You might wonder why I'm here in the first place. Fact is, there are lots of never ins who are abhorred by the cult and do what they can to help. In my case, I have worked for years on, amongst other projects, the big list, see link below.)
 
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Riddick

I clap to no man
Welcome out!

I was never in and didn't and don't have family in so I'll let the others give advice.

I just glanced through the thread. Have not seen a link to the Aftermath foundation though:


(You might wonder why I'm here in the first place. Fact is, there are lots of never ins who are abhorred by the cult and do what they can to help. In my case, I have worked for years on, amongst other projects, the big list, see link below.)
you are a unsung hero TrevAnon.

When I first started to research the internet, I landed on the big list of those that have left. In my mind, at the time, why would anybody leave dianetrics or scientology. I searched the list that people I know or heard of.

The question became why would highly trained auditors or management leave?

I pieced it together you might say. Or connected dots.

You anons are great!
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
you are a unsung hero TrevAnon.

When I first started to research the internet, I landed on the big list of those that have left. In my mind, at the time, why would anybody leave dianetrics or scientology. I searched the list that people I know or heard of.

The question became why would highly trained auditors or management leave?

I pieced it together you might say. Or connected dots.

You anons are great!
Agreed.

The big list was one of the first places that I grazed as a newby to being out. I scanned the list looking for names that I knew. When I saw that I knew quite a few people that were out, I knew I was right to be looking. I had the same question about why the list contained so many "big names", these folks had been execs, many were auditors, many had been in a long time.

From the site:

"The purpose of this list is to give courage to others who are still in to finally leave, or those who have already left to speak out. Also, perhaps those that are still in may recognize a name they may have known before, especially senior and important members, and are unaware they have left. The extensiveness of this list demonstrates that there is a significant problem with organized Scientology, and counters all the claims by their Office of Special Affairs (OSA) in the media that so-called "disgruntled ex-members" or "defrocked apostates" are only a "small group", a "tiny clique of expelled former staffers" or a "handful" in number. "

Well Done Trevanon!!!
 

Olifay

Member
Hey everyone. Sorry if I don’t post much, work keeping me busy and prepping to move in a week. New start.
As a bit of info, work has never been a problem for me in the past 10 years. Start as a dishwasher, we are bound to move up, and so I did. I did kitchen work for 10 years, and happily left that field. After the bit with the Scientologist IT job, I was broken. I never thought I could find something else than kitchen work, and I was sick of it. But I did! I work the shipping dept. in a small metal cutting shop. No experience, no resume going in. Went from starting at 18/hr the first day to getting a 5$ pay raise on the first pay. But I also focused too much on work, enslaved myself to it as I was used to.
I am checking the big list at the moment. Will get back to you all later. Thanks again to everyone.
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
@Olifoli try to avoid posting details on where you work, etc, as it makes you easier to identify. Avoid telling Scientologists where you work now, to reduce their ability to harass you at work. (One time, many years ago, org wanted me in for a sec check, so they called up work a bunch of times to harass me into coming in). The org WILL call up every Scientologist connected to you to get info on how to get to you.

When you move, do not give Scientologists your new home address, for similar reasons. A small Post Office box is not that expensive.

 
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TrevAnon

Big list researcher
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Riddick

I clap to no man
To give credit where it is due: I didn't start the list, that was WWP-user RightOn approx. 11 years ago. Nor was or am I the only one working on it. Just one of the researchers.

Of course I am happy to read it serves its purposes. :)

This link tells the story: Spotlight on "The Big List:" The Master List of Ex-COS Members Speaking Out – Reasoned.Life
the big list:


There are some people on the list that are not mentioned, and those are very early people involved with hubbard in the 1950's/1960's, who left and cut tries with Hubbard you might say.

Those are John Galusha, John Campbell, Dr Winter, Parsons, Robert Heinlein, Nibs (l Ron Hubbard, Jr), etc.

I tried to explain in one of my treads on ex scientology message board, aka Gib.

It's hard to piece together.

Here is somebody who spoke out.

 

Riddick

I clap to no man
the big list:


There are some people on the list that are not mentioned, and those are very early people involved with hubbard in the 1950's/1960's, who left and cut tries with Hubbard you might say.

Those are John Galusha, John Campbell, Dr Winter, Parsons, Robert Heinlein, Nibs (l Ron Hubbard, Jr), etc.

I tried to explain in one of my treads on ex scientology message board, aka Gib.

It's hard to piece together.

Here is somebody who spoke out.

Here is the son of L Ron Hubbard who died,

was he clear and OT who could ascend the Bridge to Total Freedom?

I think not.

He knew everything that was going on and tried to explain it.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Here is the son of L Ron Hubbard who died,

was he clear and OT who could ascend the Bridge to Total Freedom?

I think not.

He knew everything that was going on and tried to explain it.
I'd bet dollars to donuts back when that interview was done by L ron Hubbard, Jr,

they should have really listened to what he said and put a stop to it.

Now Clearwater is in a mess,

 

TrevAnon

Big list researcher
Those are John Galusha, John Campbell, Dr Winter, Parsons, Robert Heinlein, Nibs (l Ron Hubbard, Jr), etc.
John Galusha and Ronald DeWolf - aka Nibs, L. Ron Hubbard Jnr - are both already on. Go to the big list page and use CTRL-F to find them

I don't know who you mean by Dr. Winter? For people to be on we need first and last name. Do you mean this guy?


I don't think he was ever in, meaning he was a believer? I get your point here though:

If by Parsons you mean Jack: AFAICT Hubbard stole his then-girlfriend and fled with his savings, after which Hubbard wrote Dianetics. I don't think Jack was ever a follower.
Jack Parsons (rocket engineer) - Wikipedia

I'm sure Robert Heinlein and Hubbard knew each other but I also think they were just collaegues, both writers..

 
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Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
I'm sure Robert Heinlein and Hubbard knew each other but I also think they were just collaegues, as in both writers..
Heinlein and Hubbard were friends.


 

The Oracle

Not the same Oracle from a decade ago
I don't have any scientology friends, I only have new friends, ex scientology friends, and friends from High School and college.

Scientologists are friends only to the degree that you useful for stats, money contributions, etc., keeping the show on the road as Hubbard said, Mankinds Greatest Friend. LOL

Honestly, Ex Scientologists have to do a lot of work in order to be valuable as a friend. The implants run deep. I did not make friends with Scientologists because they were nice to you until they got their stat. Then they showed they did not care. I have attempted at being friends with a few ex Scientologists, but the keep using the tech and justifying their wins. They also called me to vent about the pain they experienced but cut me off if I tried to vent. That has been my experience.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Honestly, Ex Scientologists have to do a lot of work in order to be valuable as a friend. The implants run deep. I did not make friends with Scientologists because they were nice to you until they got their stat. Then they showed they did not care. I have attempted at being friends with a few ex Scientologists, but the keep using the tech and justifying their wins. They also called me to vent about the pain they experienced but cut me off if I tried to vent. That has been my experience.
sounds like indie scientologists, not people who realized there are no clears or OT's.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Heinlein and Hubbard were friends.


Tony doesn't quite get it right, but close enough.

There are two sets of files to read on the Heinlein website. I only posted about it several times, but nobody really followed thru except one person but still not enough. Caroline has posted about it.

There are the letters between Heinlein and Hubbard, and between Heinlein and Campbell. The ones between Heinlein and Campbell are much better in realizing what was happening at the the time pre dianetic launch. Once again nobody on ESMB paid the 2 bucks to read the letters except maybe Face.

I even sent the letters to Chris Shelton, never got a response back nor even a thank you, nothing against him or anything like that.

I think I posted about it all on my Dean Wilbur tread. What people don't realize is that these letters are hidden since they will not come up in a google search because you have to pay for the letters that Heinlein kept and once paying for them, receive them in a email for download. But, people are chicken shit because of security and stupid scientology OSA.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Tony doesn't quite get it right, but close enough.

There are two sets of files to read on the Heinlein website. I only posted about it several times, but nobody really followed thru except one person but still not enough. Caroline has posted about it.

There are the letters between Heinlein and Hubbard, and between Heinlein and Campbell. The ones between Heinlein and Campbell are much better in realizing what was happening at the the time pre dianetic launch. Once again nobody on ESMB paid the 2 bucks to read the letters except maybe Face.

I even sent the letters to Chris Shelton, never got a response back nor even a thank you, nothing against him or anything like that.

I think I posted about it all on my Dean Wilbur tread. What people don't realize is that these letters are hidden since they will not come up in a google search because you have to pay for the letters that Heinlein kept and once paying for them, receive them in a email for download. But, people are chicken shit because of security and stupid scientology OSA.
I found my post on ESMB,


I finished Nevala-Lee's book a couple days ago, and liked it a lot. There's some stuff in there about the earliest days of dianetics that I hadn't seen before. For example, when Astounding editor John W.Campbell proved resistant to hypnosis (which was the original dianetic technique*), Hubbard had him take phenobarbital and scopolamine. Campbell hated the effect and refused to do it again, so Hubbard rigged up a strobe-like device using mirrors, a candle, and a phonograph turntable, which was highly effective.

Nevala-Lee cites letters written by Campbell as source for the above.

I recommend the book if you're interested in the early days of dianetics, or the "golden age" of science fiction.

* Don Rogers also talks about hypnosis in early dianetics.
https://tonyortega.org/2018/05/08/w...-letters-of-key-hubbard-ally-donald-h-rogers/
Click to expand...
haven't read his book. But I doubt he was aware of the Campell/Heinlien letters which one one can read but are not available thru google search. You have to register and pay for them to read them letters.

Campbell was Hubbard's first auditor to train. And Campbell admitted to Heinlein Hubbard had it all wrong.

Here are the letters to read:

http://heinleinarchives.net/upload/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=893

Here is my post back in the day when I researched:

Dean Wilbur Rhetoric Hubbard dianetics sicientology

"
I don't know if anybody has read the links I provided above regarding Le Bon's works. :confused2:
I surely hope people do other than me and Face.
Nor do I know if folks here have read the Heinlein letters between Hubbard and Robert Heinlein. I surely hope folks do.
BUT, since the Heinlein letters between Hubbard give an insight, I thought to check out the John Campbell letters between himself and Heinlein.
Here's the link on the file:
http://heinleinarchives.net/upload/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=893
It costs two bucks to get it.
In reading that file of letters today between Campbell & Heinlein, you'll eyes will be even more opened. And I hope somebody with a better brain than me will read those letters between Campbell & Heinlein. While the Heinlein letters to Hubbard are important, these letters back and forth between Heinlein & Campbell are even more important, much more so. Just about every letter is about dianetics and more insightful. Campbell is a talking festival.
snip"

"
Gib, Dec 5, 2018
#12
 
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