The Scientologirl Independent Scientology YouTube channel associated with the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains

NotsoNutsoNow

Active member
I was talking to someone back a few years ago, that was one foot in and one foot out. We spoke and he mentioned "being right" about something and he was always thinking and looking for ways something was right in regards to the cult, and I said "oh yes, that's confirmation bias!" and he agreed. He was talking with an EO a few weeks later and mentioned the term confirmation bias, and the EO screamed "That's a psych term!"

I used to think that we could haul all the psych terminology to the dump because it was false.

I now know for a fact, most of what I was taught in scientology was false, and should be hauled to the dump.
If you were on equal footing as people are in this forum you could have retorted, "You have Rondroid bias.". (Rondroid - a Cult of $cientology masochist who primarily operates through his or her somatic mind.)
 

NotsoNutsoNow

Active member
Gentle reminder... This thread is in the Freezone, Indy, and other flavors of Scientology section.

There are people who were members of the CofS for a long time, some having also been in the Sea Org, who have never experienced being involved with non CofS variants where auditing, etc. occurs.

Whatever one might think of the non CofS variants, they are not the same as the CofS.

Have seen comments, now and then, directed at non CofS people, that seem to be directed at the CofS, which is odd, as these are people who have chosen not to be part of the CofS.

Often this is a phase.

For example...

March 1984 SP Declare of Jon Atack for organizing splinter groups and squirreling:

A $cientology cultist is a $cientologist cultist whatever guise.

Dianetic$ and $cientology ruin lives, I for one, will endeavour to put a stop to the evilness and destructiveness.

If you read the above it says, 'Ex Scientologist Message Board Redux', not 'Ex Church of Scientology $cientologists' Message Board Redux' or 'Independent Scientologist Message Board Redux'.
 
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Veda

Well-known member
I think it is a bit rich inferring I am being harmful, intending to drive people away, Gaslighting and wrong.

My approach to the Dianetic$ scam and its add-on sham, $cientology, is to enlighten readers quickly.

Elaborating, rather than enduring the pain, for instance, Permanent Traumatic Stress Disorder (my terminology), many ex-cultists have endured, my information cuts to the chase, enabling readers to know exactly where the devious and dishonest Cult of $cientology cultists are coming from, for example, Kate Ceberano and her husband, Lee Rogers, outright lying at 3:55:

Kate Ceberano Denies OT3 Alien Xenu For Scientology On Kerri Ann And Invalidates Jason Beghe (
),

which infers Jason Beghe and many others are liars.

I also consider the namby-pamby approach favoured by some is falling in line with the Cult of $cientology's wicked agenda.

When Christians talk about Christianity they generally refer to two fundamentals, The Immaculate Birth and Jesus dying on the cross for our sins, not the volumes of material that fills seminaries.

The entire '(Pre-)O.T. volume' is available free for everyone who has Internet access. I just provided the link. And, much of the OT VIII. (whatever version) material is also free to view, so I’m hardly going over novice readers’ heads or providing 'shock value' nor am willing to promote a ‘hidden data’ line.

When referencing material from the (Pre-)O.T. volume I used the APA referencing style rather than Harvard referencing style.

Hint: You don't have to read the whole volume, just put in search facility 'body thetan/s' and 'bt/s'.
You may also like to read: Essays On Scientology (Pre-) OT III Scientologys “Secret” Course Rewritten For Beginners Jon Atack, in particular:

‘According to Scientology theory, we are all multiple personalities made up of hundreds of compacted extraterrestrial entities.

Hope this helps.

PS: Don’t think of this as a pink sheet - it's just informative, friendly advice.
I think it is a bit rich inferring I am being harmful, intending to drive people away, Gaslighting and wrong.

My approach to the Dianetic$ scam and its add-on sham, $cientology, is to enlighten readers quickly.

Elaborating, rather than enduring the pain, for instance, Permanent Traumatic Stress Disorder (my terminology), many ex-cultists have endured, my information cuts to the chase, enabling readers to know exactly where the devious and dishonest Cult of $cientology cultists are coming from, for example, Kate Ceberano and her husband, Lee Rogers, outright lying at 3:55:

Kate Ceberano Denies OT3 Alien Xenu For Scientology On Kerri Ann And Invalidates Jason Beghe (
),

which infers Jason Beghe and many others are liars.

I also consider the namby-pamby approach favoured by some is falling in line with the Cult of $cientology's wicked agenda.

When Christians talk about Christianity they generally refer to two fundamentals, The Immaculate Birth and Jesus dying on the cross for our sins, not the volumes of material that fills seminaries.

The entire '(Pre-)O.T. volume' is available free for everyone who has Internet access. I just provided the link. And, much of the OT VIII. (whatever version) material is also free to view, so I’m hardly going over novice readers’ heads or providing 'shock value' nor am willing to promote a ‘hidden data’ line.

When referencing material from the (Pre-)O.T. volume I used the APA referencing style rather than Harvard referencing style.

Hint: You don't have to read the whole volume, just put in search facility 'body thetan/s' and 'bt/s'.
You may also like to read: Essays On Scientology (Pre-) OT III Scientologys “Secret” Course Rewritten For Beginners Jon Atack, in particular:

‘According to Scientology theory, we are all multiple personalities made up of hundreds of compacted extraterrestrial entities.

Hope this helps.

PS: Don’t think of this as a pink sheet - it's just informative, friendly advice.
If you read again what I wrote, you'll see I thanked you for posting a link to "Volume 14."

Yes, I know Hubbard stated that people were composites, and did so as early as 1952 in his What to Audit book. At the time, it wasn't presented as a problem. After Hubbard's upsets of 1966 (Rhodesia), it became a big problem (OT 3), and after 1977 (FBI raids) it became a bigger problem (NOTs).

All I'm requesting is a specific reference.

Was it one of the NED for OTs Series? Can you give the number?

Does that include locking four-year-old deaf-mute children in chain lockers?
I think you're misunderstanding me.
 

NotsoNutsoNow

Active member
Thanks for everyone's reply.

Here we have people from different backgrounds all having different realities - it seems some think the entirety of Scientology is a scam, others think some stuff works, and then very few on here believe it does work (the Scientologists, indy or not). I've always been a skeptic of things. I laugh at psychics and I cringe at mediums, I probably shouldn't given I'm a Scientologist but I'm not there yet. I'm well aware that Scientology has questionable things in it, but coming from someone who was always a meek little mouse to someone who is (in her own estimation) kicking ass in life for the first time, there is nothing I'd rather do. Where Scientology goes wrong, I believe, is where group ethics are enforced. I think many of you have unfortunately been under much of that. If one takes out group ethics from Scientology, and is instead self-determined individualism instead of other-determined collectivism, that's where people flourish. Unfortunately I do think LRH broke his Normal Condition formula on "Don't change anything." It started with What's true for you is true, and ended with things like Fair-game and forced disconnection, even though he revoked both of these eventually.

As I said in one of my videos, when you have the pressure of wanting to help the entirety of mankind, it seems speed and force might have been the only solution immediately available to LRH. It doesn't take away from the fact that he spent roughly 30 years working on Scientology, that people do get better regardless of opinions (I am proof of that and I'd appreciate no one invalidating me on it) and Scientology is the better option out of the psych industry and many other impractical religions combined. These are all things true for me, and I'd still encourage you to find things that are true for you, regardless if we're in disagreement or not.
Scientology disconnection, a reminder


Bernie Headley (1952-2019) did not see his daughter Stephanie in his final 5,667 days.
Valerie Haney has not seen her mother Lynne in 2,213 days.
Katrina Reyes has not seen her mother Yelena in 2,717 days
Sylvia Wagner DeWall has not seen her brother Randy in 2,237 days.
Brian Sheen has not seen his grandson Leo in 1,257 days.
Geoff Levin has not seen his son Collin and daughter Savannah in 1,148 days.
Christie Collbran has not seen her mother Liz King in 4,455 days.
Clarissa Adams has not seen her parents Walter and Irmin Huber in 2,323 days.
Carol Nyburg has not seen her daughter Nancy in 3,097 days.
Jamie Sorrentini Lugli has not seen her father Irving in 3,901 days.
Quailynn McDaniel has not seen her brother Sean in 3,217 days.
Dylan Gill has not seen his father Russell in 11,783 days.
Melissa Paris has not seen her father Jean-Francois in 7,702 days.
Valeska Paris has not seen her brother Raphael in 3,870 days.
Mirriam Francis has not seen her brother Ben in 3,451 days.
Claudio and Renata Lugli have not seen their son Flavio in 3,712 days.
Sara Goldberg has not seen her daughter Ashley in 2,750 days.
Lori Hodgson has not seen her son Jeremy and daughter Jessica in 2,463 days.
Marie Bilheimer has not seen her mother June in 1,988 days.
Julian Wain has not seen his brother Joseph or mother Susan in 343 days.
Charley Updegrove has not seen his son Toby in 1,518 days.
Joe Reaiche has not seen his daughter Alanna Masterson in 6,069 days
Derek Bloch has not seen his father Darren in 3,218 days.
Cindy Plahuta has not seen her daughter Kara in 3,538 days.
Roger Weller has not seen his daughter Alyssa in 8,393 days.
Claire Headley has not seen her mother Gen in 3,512 days.
Ramana Dienes-Browning has not seen her mother Jancis in 1,868 days.
Mike Rinder has not seen his son Benjamin and daughter Taryn in 6,171 days.
Brian Sheen has not seen his daughter Spring in 2,277 days.
Skip Young has not seen his daughters Megan and Alexis in 2,679 days.
Mary Kahn has not seen her son Sammy in 2,551 days.
Lois Reisdorf has not seen her son Craig in 2,134 days.
Phil and Willie Jones have not seen their son Mike and daughter Emily in 2,629 days.
Mary Jane Barry has not seen her daughter Samantha in 2,883 days.
Kate Bornstein has not seen her daughter Jessica in 13,992 days.


(Ref: The Underground Bunker Tony Ortega On Scientology Scientology Spying On Anonymous: Leaked From The Files Of A Church Private Eye (Scientology spying on Anonymous: Leaked from the files of a church private eye | The Underground Bunker).)

El Con did not end Fair Game and disconnection!!!!


——————–
 

NotsoNutsoNow

Active member
If Scientologists could only eliminate all the bad parts of Scientology (Clearing, OT, Xenu, Ethics, lying about supernatural powers, et al) they'd actually have something quite practical and useful.

Clay.

It's an extremely workable technology if you are trying to watch something on TV and one of the kids keeps talking and fussing. You just give it to them to play with. If that doesn't get them quiet fast, Ron has other small children technology---like throwing them in a standard chain locker for days.

.
And, let's not forget as they got older he had the poor blighters lowered in the Saint Hill well in solitary confinement, overboarded, confined to the Rehabilitation (Reprogramming) Project Force and locked-up as part of the Introspection Rundown. With friends like that who needs enemies?
 

Veda

Well-known member
A $cientology cultist is a $cientologist cultist whatever guise.

Dianetic$ and $cientology ruin lives, I for one, will endeavour to put a stop to the evilness and destructiveness.

If you read the above it says, 'Ex Scientologist Message Board Redux', not 'Ex Church of Scientology $cientologists' Message Board Redux' or 'Independent Scientologist Message Board'.
Unlike us, who actually became involved with Scientology Inc., Scientologirl rejected Scientology Inc. - apparently from the get-go - and is satisfying her curiosity by studying and auditing outside of, and away from, and in defiance of, Scientology Inc.

I've tried to show her that, around the time that the subject become "confidential," it becomes L. Ron Hubbard's personal fun house mirror maze.

The message to her, essentially, is "A little Scientology can sometimes be a good thing. A lot of Scientology seldom is."

I'm trying not to be like this guy.

 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
Emphasis mine.

Thanks for everyone's reply.

Here we have people from different backgrounds all having different realities - it seems some think the entirety of Scientology is a scam, others think some stuff works, and then very few on here believe it does work (the Scientologists, indy or not). I've always been a skeptic of things. I laugh at psychics and I cringe at mediums, I probably shouldn't given I'm a Scientologist but I'm not there yet. I'm well aware that Scientology has questionable things in it, but coming from someone who was always a meek little mouse to someone who is (in her own estimation) kicking ass in life for the first time, there is nothing I'd rather do. Where Scientology goes wrong, I believe, is where group ethics are enforced. I think many of you have unfortunately been under much of that. If one takes out group ethics from Scientology, and is instead self-determined individualism instead of other-determined collectivism, that's where people flourish. Unfortunately I do think LRH broke his Normal Condition formula on "Don't change anything." It started with What's true for you is true, and ended with things like Fair-game and forced disconnection, even though he revoked both of these eventually.

As I said in one of my videos, when you have the pressure of wanting to help the entirety of mankind, it seems speed and force might have been the only solution immediately available to LRH. It doesn't take away from the fact that he spent roughly 30 years working on Scientology, that people do get better regardless of opinions (I am proof of that and I'd appreciate no one invalidating me on it) and Scientology is the better option out of the psych industry and many other impractical religions combined. These are all things true for me, and I'd still encourage you to find things that are true for you, regardless if we're in disagreement or not.

Re your bolded line above:

He certainly did not.

You have no idea what you're talking about if you actually believe that. Fair game and disconnection were never revoked. If it appears to have lessened over the last 13 or so years it's probably due to so much factual information about hubbard and his cult being exposed by ex-scientologists. The cofs may be trying to appear to be a warm and cuddly cult instead of the pack of complete clipboard clutching arseholes in sailor suits that they are and always will be.


:eyeroll:
 

NotsoNutsoNow

Active member
If you read again what I wrote, you'll see I thanked you for posting a link to "Volume 14."

Yes, I know Hubbard stated that people were composites, and did so as early as 1952 in his What to Audit book. At the time, it wasn't presented as a problem. After Hubbard's upsets of 1966 (Rhodesia), it became a big problem (OT 3), and after 1977 (FBI raids) it became a bigger problem (NOTs).

All I'm requesting is a specific reference.

Was it one of the NED for OTs Series? Can you give the number?



I think you're misunderstanding me.
I accept that you thanked me for providing a link to the O.T. volume but that was amongst much evaluation and invalidation, which continued in your latest posting where you claim I misunderstand you.

I am not here to debate I am forwarding an agenda to help wipe out the Dianetic$ scam and its add-on sham, $cientology.

Almost every El Con issue, whether spoken or written, provided examples of him dramatizing his evil purposes-destructive intentions, service facsimiles (which is a type of evil purpose-destructive intention), justifications, natterings, bullbaitings, put-downs and psychological projections.

'OT 5 is Audited New Era Dianetics for OTs, or Audited NOTs for short. On NOTs you learn that everything is made up of BTs. EVERYTHING. Your toes, your thoughts, your love for your daughter, the moon, your fork, your shoes, your teeth, your bones, your molecules - literally everything - is made up of BTs.

You have an auditor with you for Audited NOTs. Your auditor tells you to locate another BT and ask it, "What are you?" You do this silently, and the BT then answers your question, silently, of course. As I said before, it can answer literally anything. It might say, "your third fingernail on your left hand," or it might say, "your refrigerator," "the light bulb," "the anger you're feeling toward your mother," anything. The rug, the window pane, the North Star, a Kleenex. Remember, what's true for the preclear, or pc, is what is true, and now the pc is the BT. You never invalidate the pc.

You get the BT to keep answering the question, "What are you?" until the auditor can tell by meter read that the BT has given you the right answer. Then you are told to ask the BT another question, "Who are you?" When the BT answers, "I'm me!" it causes the needle on the E-meter to fall dramatically and the BT blows.'

(Ref: Stacy Brooks' Perspective on Auditing (Mental therapy) (http://perry.users.ezlink.com/CoS/Theology/stacy.htm).)
 

NotsoNutsoNow

Active member
Unlike us, who actually became involved with Scientology Inc., Scientologirl rejected Scientology Inc. - apparently from the get-go - and is satisfying her curiosity by studying and auditing outside of, and away from, and in defiance of, Scientology Inc.

I've tried to show her that, around the time that the subject become "confidential," it becomes L. Ron Hubbard's personal fun house mirror maze.

The message to her, essentially, is "A little Scientology can sometimes be a good thing. A lot of Scientology seldom is."

I'm trying not to be like this guy.

A person does not need any Dianetic$ and $cientology whatsoever!

Whatever good in those two can be found elsewhere for free.

And, the reason why there is 'good' in Dianetic$ and $cientology is El Con plagiarised and collated the material from others.

Dianetic$, and its morphing, $cientology, was El Con's 'personal fun house mirror maze' from the beginning. Read what many thousands of people have written about him - this time with open eyes.

El Con was a f***ing evil intentioned nutjob and a covertly hostile, criminal, conman from the beginning.

Once again, you're covertly hostile inferences were dictated not read.
 
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NotsoNutsoNow

Active member
Unlike us, who actually became involved with Scientology Inc., Scientologirl rejected Scientology Inc. - apparently from the get-go - and is satisfying her curiosity by studying and auditing outside of, and away from, and in defiance of, Scientology Inc.

I've tried to show her that, around the time that the subject become "confidential," it becomes L. Ron Hubbard's personal fun house mirror maze.

The message to her, essentially, is "A little Scientology can sometimes be a good thing. A lot of Scientology seldom is."

I'm trying not to be like this guy.

Try this on for size, Uncle Tom:
HCOB 26 September 1978 Issue I WORD CLEARING AND INFORMATION FOR PRE-OTs ON NED FOR OTs and HCOB 1 November 1978 Issue II “NED FOR OTs” – CHECKLIST.
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
Never mind. I was going to write something and in the midst of thinking about it and typing, I started writing about anchoring bias and conservatism bias. Lucky for us all that I bailed. That wasn't taught in the Data Series, I'm afraid.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
And, let's not forget as they got older he had the poor blighters lowered in the Saint Hill well in solitary confinement, overboarded, confined to the Rehabilitation (Reprogramming) Project Force and locked-up as part of the Introspection Rundown. With friends like that who needs enemies?
.
Lowered in the well?! I never heard that one before. More details si vous plait! LOL

Reminds me of other OT resourcefulness, like the old "Advanced Org" in Los Angeles where they did not have the opportunity apply the over-boarding tech. Instead they ingeniously ordered Class VIII students who made an auditing error out into the parking lot where they hosed them down.

Keep in mind that this was at a time Hubbard had already created the Student Hat Course and delivered all those long taped lectures about the 100% workable "Study Tech" that provided both the cause and the cure for auditors making mistakes. Thus there were two (2) "equal and opposite pieces of tech" (see Hubbard Law of Commotion) to correct flubby auditors. MU tech and Water Tech.

I have long considered that Scientology missed an enormous opportunity to streamline and accelerate auditor training by updating the course room handling of MUs. For example, when giving one's twin a star-rate checkout and asking for the definition of a word, if the student gives a wrong definition or com lags, a squirt gun could immediately be deployed to squirt them. Dr. Hubbard didn't specify but to ensure the word is thoroughly cleared a SuperSoaker would be ideally used to thoroughly soak them.

ACADEMY WORD CLEARER


.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

.
A person does not need any Dianetic$ and $cientology whatsoever!

True!

However, there is one (1) lone exception:

A Scientologist needs Dianetics and Scientology.

REASON: An imaginary problem requires an imaginary tech to erase it.

EXAMPLES: Pre-natal Engrams, 75m year old BTs, Quadrillion year old Implants, et al.

.
 

Veda

Well-known member


Try this on for size, Uncle Tom:
HCOB 26 September 1978 Issue I WORD CLEARING AND INFORMATION FOR PRE-OTs ON NED FOR OTs and HCOB 1 November 1978 Issue II “NED FOR OTs” – CHECKLIST.
Thanks.

Our conversation is becoming silly.

I was familiar, long ago, with all of this. About 0.1 % of it is interesting, and the rest is obsessive paranoia and imaginary spider swatting.

As crazy as it is, nowhere does it state that, ultimately, deep down, there is no individual, and that a person is, inherently, constituted by Body Thetans.

That said, once a person has ingrained the habit of finding Body Thetans (and similar) in every nook and cranny, and does so, for many months, and often many years, it can be difficult not to continue finding them, despite having "completed" NOTs.

There was a period during the latter 1950s when Hubbard was telling Scientologists that there are not other thetans in the body, only some facsimiles of other thetans. Some people regard this as Hubbard's sane period, before he became a full fledged implanter in the 1960s.

This becomes complicated when it's recognized that Hubbard, in 1952, was telling Scientologists that they had been subjected to an incident that he called The Joiner, where, before the physical universe, beings were joined together. Even then, Hubbard told the Scientologists that the one that is senior, and smarter, etc. is you. (This was actually a dig or swipe at Don Purcell but that's another story.)

Hubbard was testing many of the games he would play on the heads of Scientologists and, then, seemed to take a time out from some of the heavier games during the rest of the 1950s, before bringing it back with gusto in the 1960s, and adding the final touch in 1978.

None of this achieved the advertised end result.

None of the people who have spent years on NOTs have become super beings.

The (1960s) Clearing Course was supposed to remove the final barrier to OT, and then OT 3 was supposed to remove the final barrier, and then NOTs was supposed to remove the final barrier, and then, in 1980, Hubbard decided it was malevolent meddling entities outside the physical universe that were preventing people from achieving OT, but that particular "discovery" never reached fruition.

Probably our main disagreement, or difference, is the attitude towards those who are doing what we were doing at one time. In this case, with someone who is not even a member of Scientology Inc. as we once were.

Link to YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN thread
 

Veda

Well-known member
Scientology disconnection, a reminder


Bernie Headley (1952-2019) did not see his daughter Stephanie in his final 5,667 days.
Valerie Haney has not seen her mother Lynne in 2,213 days.
Katrina Reyes has not seen her mother Yelena in 2,717 days
Sylvia Wagner DeWall has not seen her brother Randy in 2,237 days.
Brian Sheen has not seen his grandson Leo in 1,257 days.
Geoff Levin has not seen his son Collin and daughter Savannah in 1,148 days.
Christie Collbran has not seen her mother Liz King in 4,455 days.
Clarissa Adams has not seen her parents Walter and Irmin Huber in 2,323 days.
Carol Nyburg has not seen her daughter Nancy in 3,097 days.
Jamie Sorrentini Lugli has not seen her father Irving in 3,901 days.
Quailynn McDaniel has not seen her brother Sean in 3,217 days.
Dylan Gill has not seen his father Russell in 11,783 days.
Melissa Paris has not seen her father Jean-Francois in 7,702 days.
Valeska Paris has not seen her brother Raphael in 3,870 days.
Mirriam Francis has not seen her brother Ben in 3,451 days.
Claudio and Renata Lugli have not seen their son Flavio in 3,712 days.
Sara Goldberg has not seen her daughter Ashley in 2,750 days.
Lori Hodgson has not seen her son Jeremy and daughter Jessica in 2,463 days.
Marie Bilheimer has not seen her mother June in 1,988 days.
Julian Wain has not seen his brother Joseph or mother Susan in 343 days.
Charley Updegrove has not seen his son Toby in 1,518 days.
Joe Reaiche has not seen his daughter Alanna Masterson in 6,069 days
Derek Bloch has not seen his father Darren in 3,218 days.
Cindy Plahuta has not seen her daughter Kara in 3,538 days.
Roger Weller has not seen his daughter Alyssa in 8,393 days.
Claire Headley has not seen her mother Gen in 3,512 days.
Ramana Dienes-Browning has not seen her mother Jancis in 1,868 days.
Mike Rinder has not seen his son Benjamin and daughter Taryn in 6,171 days.
Brian Sheen has not seen his daughter Spring in 2,277 days.
Skip Young has not seen his daughters Megan and Alexis in 2,679 days.
Mary Kahn has not seen her son Sammy in 2,551 days.
Lois Reisdorf has not seen her son Craig in 2,134 days.
Phil and Willie Jones have not seen their son Mike and daughter Emily in 2,629 days.
Mary Jane Barry has not seen her daughter Samantha in 2,883 days.
Kate Bornstein has not seen her daughter Jessica in 13,992 days.


(Ref: The Underground Bunker Tony Ortega On Scientology Scientology Spying On Anonymous: Leaked From The Files Of A Church Private Eye (Scientology spying on Anonymous: Leaked from the files of a church private eye | The Underground Bunker).)

El Con did not end Fair Game and disconnection!!!!


——————–
The response to your post would be that Hubbard ended both but Miscavige brought them back.

That's why showing that Fair Game and Disconnection were occurring throughout the 1970s, when Miscavige was still sucking on lollipops, is the more effective argument.
 

NotsoNutsoNow

Active member
.
Lowered in the well?! I never heard that one before. More details si vous plait! LOL

Reminds me of other OT resourcefulness, like the old "Advanced Org" in Los Angeles where they did not have the opportunity apply the over-boarding tech. Instead they ingeniously ordered Class VIII students who made an auditing error out into the parking lot where they hosed them down.

Keep in mind that this was at a time Hubbard had already created the Student Hat Course and delivered all those long taped lectures about the 100% workable "Study Tech" that provided both the cause and the cure for auditors making mistakes. Thus there were two (2) "equal and opposite pieces of tech" (see Hubbard Law of Commotion) to correct flubby auditors. MU tech and Water Tech.

I have long considered that Scientology missed an enormous opportunity to streamline and accelerate auditor training by updating the course room handling of MUs. For example, when giving one's twin a star-rate checkout and asking for the definition of a word, if the student gives a wrong definition or com lags, a squirt gun could immediately be deployed to squirt them. Dr. Hubbard didn't specify but to ensure the word is thoroughly cleared a SuperSoaker would be ideally used to thoroughly soak them.

ACADEMY WORD CLEARER


.




Thanks.

Our conversation is becoming silly.

I was familiar, long ago, with all of this. About 0.1 % of it is interesting, and the rest is obsessive paranoia and imaginary spider swatting.

As crazy as it is, nowhere does it state that, ultimately, deep down, there is no individual, and that a person is, inherently, constituted by Body Thetans.

That said, once a person has ingrained the habit of finding Body Thetans (and similar) in every nook and cranny, and does so, for many months, and often many years, it can be difficult not to continue finding them, despite having "completed" NOTs.

There was a period during the latter 1950s when Hubbard was telling Scientologists that there are not other thetans in the body, only some facsimiles of other thetans. Some people regard this as Hubbard's sane period, before he became a full fledged implanter in the 1960s.

This becomes complicated when it's recognized that Hubbard, in 1952, was telling Scientologists that they had been subjected to an incident that he called The Joiner, where, before the physical universe, beings were joined together. Even then, Hubbard told the Scientologists that the one that is senior, and smarter, etc. is you. (This was actually a dig or swipe at Don Purcell but that's another story.)

Hubbard was testing many of the games he would play on the heads of Scientologists and, then, seemed to take a time out from some of the heavier games during the rest of the 1950s, before bringing it back with gusto in the 1960s, and adding the final touch in 1978.

None of this achieved the advertised end result.

None of the people who have spent years on NOTs have become super beings.

The (1960s) Clearing Course was supposed to remove the final barrier to OT, and then OT 3 was supposed to remove the final barrier, and then NOTs was supposed to remove the final barrier, and then, in 1980, Hubbard decided it was malevolent meddling entities outside the physical universe that were preventing people from achieving OT, but that particular "discovery" never reached fruition.

Probably our main disagreement, or difference, is the attitude towards those who are doing what we were doing at one time. In this case, with someone who is not even a member of Scientology Inc. as we once were.

Link to YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN thread
You wrote:

'As crazy as it is, nowhere does it state that, ultimately, deep down, there is no individual, and that a person is, inherently, constituted by Body Thetans.'

I gave you four references. If you don't want to accept them that's your prerogative - but now it's time to move on.

However, I would prefer you stop dramatizing service facsimiles with me, evaluating and invalidating me, and trying to side-track the issues like some Marcab Race Track Driver with atomic bombs, you're acting like 'silly' El Con.

By the way, regarding service facsimiles, El Con didn't even get the definition right.

Everything he touched he got wrong - including the flows - there are not one, three, four, seven or eight flows - I count twenty-five – which is one of the reasons Patients couldn’t be cracked - but another or others may come up with more.

From what you have written it's clear you're still a pro-Cult of $cientology cultist, especially for the period from 1952 to the mid-1960s, 'El Con's anti-Dianetic$ era', justifying his warped and wicked endeavours, covertly flying the evil filth's flag.

However, any Dianetic$ and $cientology is a bad mix under any guise - one drop of sewage in fine wine and it becomes sewerage.

With respect to the 'final barrier' - Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health was just one of the dozens of El Con 'final barriers' - so-called El Con discoveries, developments and 'newbies' that were going to fix mankind for good - except for suppressive persons, the overboarded and any four-year-old deaf-mute paper munchers - in El Con's words cocksucking cunts, which is rather ironical and hypocritical of Ol' Yella, as he claimed he was Cecil John Rhodes, founder of Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, who was a renowned homosexual, in a past life.

El Con was an evil intentioned prick from the start, way back before 1952, where the schizophrenic criminal conman was covertly hostilely trying to muck up people's minds. Go back and read the many recounts of his life from renowned and well-researched non-Cult of $cientology cultists and sources.

Perhaps you should also join a pro-Cult of $cientology site and abandon this one.

That's it!!!!
 

NotsoNutsoNow

Active member
The response to your post would be that Hubbard ended both but Miscavige brought them back.

That's why showing that Fair Game and Disconnection were occurring throughout the 1970s, when Miscavige was still sucking on lollipops, is the more effective argument.
El Con never stopped fair gaming and disconnecting - witness John McMaster - the world's first real Clear - which occurred during El Con's watch and post the so-called cancellation of El Con's Fair Game policy.

Your opening statement is absolute bullshit.

And, like El Con you're a condescending bullshit artist.

El Con was evil!!!!

I am no longer going to dignify your narrow-minded, biased, factually incorrect contributions with a reply, and I would prefer you don't comment on my contributions.

That's it!!!!
 

Veda

Well-known member
:scratch:


You wrote:

'As crazy as it is, nowhere does it state that, ultimately, deep down, there is no individual, and that a person is, inherently, constituted by Body Thetans.'

I gave you four references. If you don't want to accept them that's your prerogative - but now it's time to move on.
The references don't support your claim.

Look at the top of the screen. This part of the Message Board addresses "Freezone, Indy, and other flavors of Scientology." Two functions that the "Freezone, Indy, and other flavors of Scientology" serve is to provide an alternative to Scientology Inc., which invites people to leave Scientology Inc., and also provides an alternative for those who are curious about Scientology, to satisfy their curiosity, without becoming entangled with Scientology Inc.

For many people the participation in the "Freezone, Indy, and other flavors of Scientology" is a temporary, transitional thing.

Telling a person that 100% of what he or she considers to be true, is false, may feel good, but it's usually not effective.

And by all means, do move on.


El Con never stopped fair gaming and disconnecting - witness John McMaster - the world's first real Clear - which occurred during El Con's watch and post the so-called cancellation of El Con's Fair Game policy.

Your opening statement is absolute bullshit.

-snip-
That's the response that most "Freezone, Indy, and other flavors of Scientology" people would give you.

Look around. You're in that section of the Message Board.

Please move on.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
Thanks for everyone's reply.

Here we have people from different backgrounds all having different realities - it seems some think the entirety of Scientology is a scam, others think some stuff works, and then very few on here believe it does work (the Scientologists, indy or not). I've always been a skeptic of things. I laugh at psychics and I cringe at mediums, I probably shouldn't given I'm a Scientologist but I'm not there yet. I'm well aware that Scientology has questionable things in it, but coming from someone who was always a meek little mouse to someone who is (in her own estimation) kicking ass in life for the first time, there is nothing I'd rather do. Where Scientology goes wrong, I believe, is where group ethics are enforced. I think many of you have unfortunately been under much of that. If one takes out group ethics from Scientology, and is instead self-determined individualism instead of other-determined collectivism, that's where people flourish. Unfortunately I do think LRH broke his Normal Condition formula on "Don't change anything." It started with What's true for you is true, and ended with things like Fair-game and forced disconnection, even though he revoked both of these eventually.

As I said in one of my videos, when you have the pressure of wanting to help the entirety of mankind, it seems speed and force might have been the only solution immediately available to LRH. It doesn't take away from the fact that he spent roughly 30 years working on Scientology, that people do get better regardless of opinions (I am proof of that and I'd appreciate no one invalidating me on it) and Scientology is the better option out of the psych industry and many other impractical religions combined. These are all things true for me, and I'd still encourage you to find things that are true for you, regardless if we're in disagreement or not.

Have you not heard? The WOKE brigade have taken over scientology's hallucinatory life coaching role, they're the latest cult 'encouraging' us all to think their way by attempting to cancel everything in sight.

I'm afraid your advice, suggestions and 'encouragement' are surplus to current requirement.

You, tubs hubbard and every scientologist still hanging onto the tehk have been thoroughly bypassed by a mob of howling, screeching reprobates.

Gotta laugh.

:eyeroll:
 

freethinker

Controversial
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