Scientologirl - New Independent Scientologist

Dotey OT

Fixed Dedicated Glare Now Fixed
I have been walking around wondering what was wrong with me, I always end up feeling like I should just sit back and listen until something gets in my craw. Then I react. I was right about Alonz-hole, way back when. This thread may well be the microcosm of what being out of scientology is.
 

Dark

Well-known member
They should arrive here and lurk for a few years. See if this crowd is for them.
I lurked for four years before I joined up. So did afaceinthecrowd. That's the
way life works. You find your own people. Listen and learn some things first.


The Early Years

The contrast would be going to a message board where classical pianists hang
out and exchange ideas and begin telling them how to play a Chopin Nocturne,
while oneself being a novice at the piano.

Most of us here are already experts in the field of "Ex." One should arrive and
learn a few things.



Simply put. Well put. That's the way the Interwebs work.
Nothing more to be said. Nothing to be confused about. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
i love the hair morphing, but nose piercings ... i just don't get it.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Captain Bill Robertson & Ron's Org - Chris Shelton's answer on this particular indie item

While I like Chris's explanation of Bill Robertson and the Sea Org, what should be noted is earlier John Campbell was Hubbard's first trained auditor on Dianetics. And what should be further noted is Campbell left the Dianetics.

That should raise some red flags and questions.

Just going earlier similar as Hubbard's tech of engram running is supposed to do, just applying it to history of Dianetics and Scientology.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
They should arrive here and lurk for a few years. See if this crowd is for them.
I lurked for four years before I joined up. So did afaceinthecrowd. That's the
way life works. You find your own people. Listen and learn some things first.


The Early Years

The contrast would be going to a message board where classical pianists hang
out and exchange ideas and begin telling them how to play a Chopin Nocturne,
while oneself being a novice at the piano.

Most of us here are already experts in the field of "Ex." One should arrive and
learn a few things.



Simply put. Well put. That's the way the Interwebs work.
Nothing more to be said. Nothing to be confused about. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
yep, A Face in The Crowd tried to explain Hubbard, hence his name on ESMB as A Face in The Crowd:

 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
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@HelluvaHoax!, a shocking analysis and take-down! :omg:
You do know he goes out of his way to avoid reading your posts, don't you? :hmm:
He's even located the secret XenForo forum keystroke that invokes a "double ignore." :LOL:
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"Double ignore?!" Whoa! That must be like Ron's tech where with a really bad SP you have to send them two copies of the same disconnection letter! :giggle:

XenForo is above my pay grade, didn't know about that premium platform and filtering tech before.

I am however authorized to use XenuForo, which helps me magnify safepointing gimmicks and other lame attempts to "handle" whistleblowers who are exposing too much and thereby "harming Scientologists and staff members". LOL.

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TheSneakster

Well-known member
According to the AOGP's own literature, it does offer an OT 8 level, which is a variation of Ron's Orgs OT8 also known as Excalibur.
Veda, I do not intend any disrespect here, but I must question the notion that AOGP is using any OT levels authored by or derived from any of Bill Robertson's publications.

AOGP is affiliated with the "Hubbard Standard Tech Only" (I'm not going to debate what APIS considers this covers) Association of Professional Independent Scientologists (APIS). Using any of Bill Robertson's stuff would get him promptly booted. After diligent search, I can find nothing whatsoever on the web from Jonathon Burke or any other AOGP staff that states or suggests they are using Bill Robertson's "Excalibur" OT VIII.

Would you please post on image of or link to this AOGP OT VIII literature you saw ?
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
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In my 11 plus years on this message board, there has been one SUPER-MYSTERY that certain members are never able to figure out. When an "Indie Scientologist" has a hard time communicating to EX scientologists and they end up "enturbulated" and/or "blowing", some folks immediately start going on a witch hunt to find the WHO that "ran them off the board".

This is what Dr. Hubbard would call a "crashing misunderstood".

You can't get run off the board unless the administrator bans you.

Here is a simple explanation of why the aggrieved feels victimized and why the other "indies" become justice warriors trying to UN-DO the terrible things they believe were done to the dearly departed Indie.

I'll use an example from MIXED MARTIAL ARTS where a legendary wrestler (CM PUNK) decided to go on a several year training regimen to transition from wrestling (where he was a rich superstar athlete) over to mixed martial arts. Not an easy transition but he was an elite athlete and he dedicated himself to the quest.

His first MMA fight would be against a young and new fighter with 2 victories and no defeats, Mickey Gall. Mickey was a very low level MMA fighter ("brown belt") but that compared favorably to CM PUNK's newbie "White Belt", which meant no previous experience or training.

This is what happens. . .


So! CM Punk was blown out, didn't even get in one punch or "offensive move".

He got choked out and fast, it wasn't even close.

If you can read lips, you'll see Mickey Gall triumphantly strut around the ring seconds after Punk tapped out. He is yelling:

WTF DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?!​

That applies to throwing an amateur scientologist--a newbie Indie (or any Indie actually) into the ring with battle-worn, hoax-savvy EX SCIENTOLOGIST mercenaries. Amateurs vs. Pros, pick any sport, business or human enterprise. The ending is always the same.

They have no defense and start gasping for oxygen.

It's so unfair!

INJUSTICE!!

The sheer pathos of it sends the weak of heart into trying to place blame on someone. I know about this because I have been accused by Indies often of "running (NAME) off the website". LOL

What was MICKEY GALL supposed to do? Pretend he didn't know mixed martial arts and pretend that CM PUNK was an incredible ju-jitsu master or boxing phenom?

Personally I welcome all Indies or anyone else to the website. If i get tired of talking to them or if they refuse to answer any questions, I usually just flip to another channel (thread).

Honestly, if a newbie Indie Scientologist comes on a hard-core EX scientology crtics' site, "WTF DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?!"

If a Scientologist "feels invalidated" it's because the entire subject of scientology is invalid. That's Hubbard's fault, the messenger should not be com ev'd for delivering the r-factor, lol.


ps: CM Punk was not a professional wrestler as in GRECO-ROMAN WRESTLING or OLYMPIC WRESTLING. He was a "pro" wrestler in name only, because his brand of "pro" wrestling was the silly fake kind where the matches are scripted and no punches or kicks actually land. It's pure performance art with melodramatic over-acting and cartoony good-vs-evil fictional narratives and clownish costumes. The same trappings that exist in any cult like Scientology.
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ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
If a Scientologist "feels invalidated" it's because the entire subject of scientology is invalid. That's Hubbard's fault, the messenger should not be com ev'd for delivering the r-factor, lol.
Perfect! :clapping:

Whole post was a perfect response. I'm breathless. :coolwink: Someone had to say all that.

Yeah, but some will complain still, "Did he follow the Marquess of Queensberry rules on the thread?"
They're all posted in the rules section. True. I have seen them myself.

As I said earlier, people better lurk around a bit and learn what full contact sport they might
getting into around here. There's some real veteran "killers" hanging around, LOL. :LOL:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Perfect! :clapping:

Whole post was a perfect response. I'm breathless. :coolwink: Someone had to say all that.

Yeah, but some will complain still, "Did he follow the Marquess of Queensberry rules on the thread?"
They're all posted in the rules section. True. I have seen them myself.

As I said earlier, people better lurk around a bit and learn what full contact sport they might
getting into around here. There's some real veteran "killers" hanging around, LOL. :LOL:

From another camera angle: ("What do you THINK would FUCKIN' happen?!!!")

1st ten seconds of video.



.​
 

Veda

Well-known member
Veda, I do not intend any disrespect here, but I must question the notion that AOGP is using any OT levels authored by or derived from any of Bill Robertson's publications.

AOGP is affiliated with the "Hubbard Standard Tech Only" (I'm not going to debate what APIS considers this covers) Association of Professional Independent Scientologists (APIS). Using any of Bill Robertson's stuff would get him promptly booted. After diligent search, I can find nothing whatsoever on the web from Jonathon Burke or any other AOGP staff that states or suggests they are using Bill Robertson's "Excalibur" OT VIII.

Would you please post on image of or link to this AOGP OT VIII literature you saw ?
I'm not going to go searching for it at this time. I didn't bookmark it. But I did read it., and it is being used, in some form or another, by other Independent Scientologists.

Burke did not state that he was using Excalibur, rather he stated that he was using his own modified version of it.

Hubbard lied to Scientologists when he told them there were lots more unreleased OT levels.

What do you suggest Independent Scientology auditors do?


 

Veda

Well-known member
-snip-

If a Scientologist "feels invalidated" it's because the entire subject of scientology is invalid.

-snip-
.
As a totality, yes, it's invalid.

Disassembled, with each piece examined and considered, each piece, in and of itself, is not always invalid.

And this is usually how people find out about the secretive subject of Scientology - one piece at a time.

 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
As a totality, yes, it's invalid.

Disassembled, with each piece examined and considered, each piece, in and of itself, is not always invalid.

And this is usually how people find out about the secretive subject of Scientology - one piece at a time.


Sure, not every piece is always invalid. But, alas, the "valid" parts don't seem to be detachable from the radioactive toxic parts.

I guess one analogy could be going to a Japanese restaurant after hearing that they've got the best sushi in the world. You are curious to go at least one time to find out why customers are paying over $500,000 for one meal.

The chef is a mystical fellow, constantly jabbering about cosmic powers you will get if you eat his special sushi.

So you sell your house and go for dinner.

After waiting hours, you finally get your meal. Keep in mind that there is no menu, because the chef/owner prepares what he thinks you need---you have no say in it.

The waiter lays down your special customized meal. A fish. It is not even filleted or cut or cooked. The waiter hands you sushi-chef knives and says he is not permitted to tell you more because that would be invalidation. He leaves an instruction sheet which warns you to be sure to correctly cut the bad parts of the puffer fish safely off before you eat them because it could harm your health.

You look again at your instruction sheet and it explains the pufferfish has titrodotoxin which is 1200 more poisonous than cynanide, enough in one solitary fish to kill 30 human adults.

Well, that's how I look at Scientology. I know how to remove the poisonous part and you know and many people on ESMB redux know, because they were chef's in training for several decades.

But for anyone else, especially new people, if i was their waiter in the sushi restaurant i would not expect a tip, because such customers usually are rushed into the ambulance and never heard from again.


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Veda

Well-known member
Sure, not every piece is always invalid. But, alas, the "valid" parts don't seem to be detachable from the radioactive toxic parts.

-snip-
But it is detachable, at least for some people.

For example, the Those who "quit fast" thread, to which this is a link, is about people for whom it was detachable.

The schism of the early 1980s, and later breakaways from the Scientology organization, and the earlier breakaways from the 1960s and 1950s, are all examples of how detachable the parts of Scientology are.

When I spent a year auditing people, in the early 1980s, I was free as a bird. I was loosely associated with a break-away group but no one had any authority or control over me. I was definitely not a Scientologist anymore. It would have been silly to call myself one. But, at the time, I was still an "auditor."

And there were others who were just as free.

More to the point, Scientology Inc., uses the "good parts" as camouflage to lure.

Telling someone that a tiny piece of Scientology is bad, when it is not, in and of itself, bad, may be cathartic for the person saying it, but it seldom helps the other person, who is already convinced that the tiny piece of Scientology he's experienced is good.

Fully describing Scientology requires describing the, in and of themselves, non-toxic parts also.
 

Bill

Well-known member
But it is detachable, at least for some people.
<snip>
Fully describing Scientology requires describing the, in and of themselves, non-toxic parts also.
Detachable "good" parts of Scientology: Why?

What do the "good" parts of Hubbard's "tech" do that is unique and useful? I understand "I feel good" is nice -- but it certainly isn't unique and, how useful it is isn't determined. People say "My life is changed!" -- and that's different from everyone else's lives that are changed all the time?

My question, which no one has been able to answer still is: Is there any part of Hubbard's "tech" that has any unique value over all the rest of life's lessons, changes, gains, etc? Why go to all the trouble of sifting out the alleged "good parts" if it isn't unique; if it doesn't provide results unobtainable by many other ways?

And, seriously, no one has answered that.
 

Irayam

Well-known member
Sure, not every piece is always invalid. But, alas, the "valid" parts don't seem to be detachable from the radioactive toxic parts.
Yes, and on top of that the valid pieces come from the restaurant next door to take up the analogy with the sushi restaurant...
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
...My question, which no one has been able to answer still is: Is there any part of Hubbard's "tech" that has any unique value over all the rest of life's lessons, changes, gains, etc? Why go to all the trouble of sifting out the alleged "good parts" if it isn't unique; if it doesn't provide results unobtainable by many other ways? And, seriously, no one has answered that.
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ANSWER: Annually, many people have to be rushed to hospital emergency rooms from poisoning due to eating puffer fish in a sushi restaurant. Each year over 100 people die from the delicacy, which they typically paid over $200 for, when for $2 they could have instead bought a can of tuna fish and lived.

However, not everyone who eats it dies! This is why it's well worth "going to all the trouble of sifting out the alleged good parts" when ordering puffer fish.

CONCLUSION: Everyone can relax and enjoy the extraordinary wins from eating puffer fish and not always dying. Likewise, diners should not get all hung up on the fact that Scientology forces you to sign a waiver of liability contract before you are allowed to enter the drive-thru lane of any of their McPuffers fast-food fast-flow restaurants.

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TheSneakster

Well-known member
I'm not going to go searching for it at this time. I didn't bookmark it. But I did read it., and it is being used, in some form or another, by other Independent Scientologists.

Burke did not state that he was using Excalibur, rather he stated that he was using his own modified version of it.
Veda:

The AOGP Web site list of online courses includes Bill Robertson's Excalibur Course.

I hereby withdraw my above objection. If he is delivering that, then delivering an "OT VIII" course based on an altered Bill Robertson OT VIII is not at all far-fetched.

Thanks for the response.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Detachable "good" parts of Scientology: Why?

What do the "good" parts of Hubbard's "tech" do that is unique and useful? I understand "I feel good" is nice -- but it certainly isn't unique and, how useful it is isn't determined. People say "My life is changed!" -- and that's different from everyone else's lives that are changed all the time?

My question, which no one has been able to answer still is: Is there any part of Hubbard's "tech" that has any unique value over all the rest of life's lessons, changes, gains, etc? Why go to all the trouble of sifting out the alleged "good parts" if it isn't unique; if it doesn't provide results unobtainable by many other ways?

And, seriously, no one has answered that.
.
ANSWER: Annually, many people have to be rushed to hospital emergency rooms from poisoning due to eating puffer fish in a sushi restaurant. Each year over 100 people die from the delicacy, which they typically paid over $200 for, when for $2 they could have instead bought a can of tuna fish and lived.

However, not everyone who eats it dies! This is why it's well worth "going to all the trouble of sifting out the alleged good parts" when ordering puffer fish.

CONCLUSION: Everyone can relax and enjoy the extraordinary wins from eating puffer fish and not always dying. Likewise, diners should not get all hung up on the fact that Scientology forces you to sign a waiver of liability contract before you are allowed to enter the drive-thru lane of any of their McPuffers fast-food fast-flow restaurants.


Through contractual agreements - often obtained through trickery or duress - Scientology seeks to insulate itself from legal and governmental actions.



What would you say to your self, if you had the opportunity to talk to yourself from years ago?

The original YOU NOW TALKING TO YOU THEN thread:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
What would you say if you had the opportunity to talk to yourself (when you were a Scientologist)?
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I'd say exactly what I say to Scientologists and Indies here on this forum.

Reality rocks. That's what it all comes down to sooner or later, the Scientologist is going to eventually discover the truth about the hoax, so why not flip to the last page of the book and just read it aloud to them?

I'd do the same thing if I met a Japanese soldier hiding in the Philippine jungles since 1945, who thought that WW II was still raging. This would admittedly "enturbulate" the Emporer's "loyal officer", one might worry. But I don't care. LOL.

What better way to help chronic cult com-laggers and serial stragglers than to just tell them the truth?

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