Scientologirl - New Independent Scientologist

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Would you, then, have listened?
.

Yes, why wouldn't I listen? When I eventually stumbled on the facts surrounding Hubbard's hoax, I secured my parachute and leapt out of Ron's intergalactic rocketship.

The point is that it does take a little time to accept the new facts, but so what? That doesn't mean that the facts should be withheld just because it disturbs the cultic reverie spell that Scientologists keep themselves in.

Facts are good. The more the merrier!

Despite what Scientology teaches, FACTS are the way to happiness.

Facts. Splurge on it. LOL.

.
 

Mockingbird

Well-known member
KDC posted this question in The Outer Banks and I now would be prepared to use the time machine and talk to myself either before I joined Scientology or before I spent about two and a half months in Scientology and decided to buy in whole hog.

I would have told myself to stick with my family and talk to Jon Atack about the truth about Scientology. I would have read his articles on hypnosis and the occult in Scientology.

I would look at the information on critical thinking and the scientific method I have learned since leaving Scientology and realize that Scientology is a pseudoscience and fraud. I would look at the information on human predators and cultic relationships and realize that Scientology fits perfectly.

I would give myself a list of people who have good information on these topics, starting with Jon Atack and I would give myself first some basic things then progress to entire books on these subjects and explain to myself how things like rhetoric, propaganda analysis, logical fallacies and cognitive biases relate to Scientology and how I can use them beyond Scientology.

I would try to take everything I have learned over the last six years and break it down to the absolute most important parts in a digestible sized group of tiny bits and have them progress to bigger and bigger parts. Hopefully the small articles and videos I start with will make me curious enough to read the books.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
Would you, then, have listened?

Does that matter Veda?

You may be assuming that we are all here graciously (and condescendingly) awaiting indies or cofs scientologists to appear so we can 'handle them' out of scientology, possibly with a bit of gentle (ie manipulative!) love bombing ... I can't speak for everyone else but I can assure you that I am not.

:no:
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
I'd say exactly what I say to Scientologists and Indies here on this forum.
Would you, then, have listened?
For me, I was shocked, terrified that I had wasted my life, and in disbelief
at first.

But I phoned and emailed a bunch of blown upper level CSes and RTC-types
and did my own investigations of sorts, finally confirming the truth I didn't
want to hear. Someone had to have planted the first "seeds of doubt" though.

That's why I've made all my humorous and sometimes over-the-top shoops. Maybe
they'll inspire someone to look into things a bit more before they go bankrupt
or lose their spouse. Both happened to me, but that was a long time ago and I had
enough time to recover, recoup and rebuild my life. It's never easy though.


Sample shoops for new lurkers:
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
For me, I was shocked, terrified that I had wasted my life, and in disbelief
at first.

But I phoned and emailed a bunch of blown upper level CSes and RTC-types
and did my own investigations of sorts, finally confirming the truth I didn't
want to hear. Someone had to have planted the first "seeds of doubt" though.

That's why I've made all my humorous and sometimes over-the-top shoops. Maybe
they'll inspire someone to look into things a bit more before they go bankrupt
or lose their spouse. Both happened to me, but that was a long time ago and I had
enough time to recover, recoup and rebuild my life. It's never easy though.


Sample shoops for new lurkers:
When I think of scientology and everything I learned from it, I now this I was slimed.

 

Veda

Well-known member
For me, I was shocked, terrified that I had wasted my life, and in disbelief
at first.

But I phoned and emailed a bunch of blown upper level CSes and RTC-types
and did my own investigations of sorts, finally confirming the truth I didn't
want to hear. Someone had to have planted the first "seeds of doubt" though.

That's why I've made all my humorous and sometimes over-the-top shoops. Maybe
they'll inspire someone to look into things a bit more before they go bankrupt
or lose their spouse. Both happened to me, but that was a long time ago and I had
enough time to recover, recoup and rebuild my life. It's never easy though.


Sample shoops for new lurkers:
I enjoy your shoops very much and also H.H.'s satirical posts.

They are therapeutic.
 

Mockingbird

Well-known member
Would you, then, have listened?
The ex Scientologist who goes by the alias Veda at the Ex Scientologist Message Board and Ex Scientologist Message Board 2 ((ESMB and ESMB2) asked what would you tell yourself.

He was asking ex Scientologists this question, and I obviously was in Scientology for twenty five years and would want to get the younger version of me to avoid Scientology absolutely as much as possible.

Here is a description:



"ID called "VEDA" posted an interesting question on ESMB R



If it were possible to travel back in time, and you, could have talked with you [insert date when you were first becoming involved with Scientology] what would you have said? What questions would you have asked knowing what you know now...



Would the you - then - have listened to the you now?"




I would have told myself to stick with my family and talk to Jon Atack about the truth about Scientology. I would have read his articles on hypnosis and the occult in Scientology.



I would look at the information on critical thinking and the scientific method I have learned since leaving Scientology and realize that Scientology is a pseudoscience and fraud. I would look at the information on human predators and cultic relationships and realize that Scientology fits perfectly.



I would give myself a list of people who have good information on these topics, starting with Jon Atack and I would give myself first some basic things then progress to entire books on these subjects and explain to myself how things like rhetoric, propaganda analysis, logical fallacies and cognitive biases relate to Scientology and how I can use them beyond Scientology.



I would try to take everything I have learned over the last six years and break it down to the absolute most important parts in a digestible sized group of tiny bits and have them progress to bigger and bigger parts. Hopefully the small articles and videos I start with will make me curious enough to read the books.



I think it is useful to actually look at what helped, why and how.



There is no guarantee that anything that would help me (potentially) is the exact right fit for any particular person.



I would probably start with The Total Freedom Trap article by Jon Atack.



That is not extremely long and hits lots of important points on things like what judges have said about Scientology, the hypnosis Hubbard incorporated in Scientology covertly, Hubbard's misadventures and plagiarism involving the occult and his intention to make money off of Scientology.



I would probably go to the article Never Believe a Hypnotist by Jon Atack and the articles I used for my own post on hypnosis so I could get a rudimentary introduction to the subject. I would also include a collection of YouTube videos I have seen on hypnosis to help me understand the basic ideas in the subject. The list of videos on hypnosis is in the blog post Burning Down Hell - How Commands Are Hidden, Varied And Repeated To Control You As Hypnotic Implants.



I would share the collection of quotes called Twenty Things Judges Have Said About Scientology, because that many people describing Scientology in those terms might have been good enough of a warning by itself to get me to stay away from Scientology.



I have to emphasize that my objective in this hypothetical time travel scenario is to keep myself from joining Scientology or believing in Scientology, not necessarily to educate myself and transplant everything I know now to past me.



So, I would be far more concerned with being effective and rapidly getting myself to reject Scientology, so I would try for the shortest path to that outcome, not the most extensive.

If I (past me) learned everything I (current me) know outside of my personal experience then great but if I learn just enough to know I want nothing to do with Scientology then my primary objective would be achieved.



I would try to get my objective by using articles and short YouTube videos at first because the chance that I (or most people) would actually finish short free articles and short free videos is much, much higher than the chance that I would finish a stack of books or even a few or one book.



It's just human nature. I might have trouble finding a book or trouble getting a lot of hours free with enough sleep to absorb what I read or get bored with a book and set it down too early.



So, I would try to get the topics of plagiarized ideas from hypnosis (and a very, very basic understanding of hypnosis) in Scientology and Hubbard's extensive knowledge of hypnosis and the same thing regarding the occult conveyed.



I would try to get across the crimes Hubbard and the Guardian's Office committed across, including operation snow white and I would try to get across the cruelty and lack of compassion that Hubbard put into Scientology administration and ethics tech across.



I would try to expose the fact that Hubbard really wanted fame, money and power by going over the games maker tape (Philadelphia Doctorate Course tape 39) in which Hubbard described how he created Scientology to secretly enslave people, the Skipper letter to show that he was only out for himself and the affirmations to show that he was sincerely committed to the occult or desired it to be true and tried to enslave people via hypnosis and was profoundly self-centered and narcissistic.



I have a lot of blog posts that address these issues and think that they are effective at debunking Scientology for some people who have never been in Scientology and for some who have been in Scientology. Some people who have been in Scientology have read some of my posts then let me know that after reading them they have rejected Scientology. A few have done some Scientology courses, for example, then read my posts on Scientology indoctrination and told me they were on the fence regarding going back and decided to not go back ever after reading these posts. Obviously no one way is guaranteed to work with everyone. I think the less that someone has been indoctrinated in Scientology and bought into it the easier it is , on average, to warn them effectively and to disabuse them of any idea that Scientology is good or debunk any belief in Scientology as something positive. I would include a lot of quotes on the racism and religious discrimination of Hubbard because that alone might be enough to get me to run the other way.



I will list some of the posts that have the information I would give to "young me" to warn myself off. I hope this is of some use to someone. Now to just find that time travel device...



Thought Reform/Influence

Insidious Enslavement : Study Technology

Scientology Was Ron Hubbard's Private Game


Plagiarism In Scientology - Likely Sources

Possible origins for Dianetics and Scientology


Scientology Doctrine and the Words of Ronald Hubbard

A Psychiatric View With Comments On The Admissions...

Ron Hubbard On Psychology

HCO BULLETIN OF 17 MARCH 1969 POLITICS


Scientology and Responsibility


Why Lying And Murder Are Justified In Scientology ...

Why Lying And Murder Are Justified In Scientology ...


Why Lying And Murder Are Justified In Scientology ...


Scientology Racism - Can The Cult Deny It ?
Suggested Reading Scientology RACISM
Scientology Antisemitism "Jewish Bankers" conspira...


Scientology's fight for apartheid The secret histo...
Scientology Racism can the Church Deny It ? Again


References to Study

Jon Atack - Scientology Expert

Scientology as Described by Experts - Jon Atack

"Never believe a hypnotist"

Hana Eltringham Whitfield talk

Lermanet.com's Great Finds Regarding Scientology

George Orwell: Two Essential Short Articles For Ev...

From Science-fiction to Fiction-science

The Anderson Report - Scientology and Hypnosis Rep...


Twenty Things Judges Have Said About Scientology

Hypnosis and Covert Persuasion

Basic Introduction to Hypnosis in Scientology

Burning Down Hell - How Commands Are Hidden , Vari...

The Critical Factor

Scientology Assists and Objectives as Hypnosis

Hubbard on Hypnosis
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
DM and LRH cuts my lawn.

I miss chuck from ESMB.

 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.
Does that matter Veda? You may be assuming that we are all here graciously (and condescendingly) awaiting indies or cofs scientologists to appear so we can 'handle them' out of scientology, possibly with a bit of gentle (ie manipulative!) love bombing ... I can't speak for everyone else but I can assure you that I am not.

:no:

You, m'am, need to brush up on your TR-LB.

Be sure to send your video up lines to RTC for a final pass.

You know, I trust, that the the beings up-lines are quite ideal and they are totally handling this planet and mankind---so you'd best just flow power to them and do whatever they order you to do.

And don't dismiss the Indies so easily. They can help you by giving you references to standard LRH policies and tech so that you can become total cause like them. You should be grateful that such advanced beings come down here on this planet to help us MEST beings!

.
 

Dotey OT

Quite Disaffected
This thread is very interesting to me now, really! All kinds of interesting things going on here, especially to someone like me. I may not be the baby in the house of the out of scamatology family, but I am still certainly jail bait lol! I appreciate the conversations that are occurring here.

So I am talking to my friend that is still IN scamatology yesterday. We live in different parts of the country, he's doing two jobs so that he can afford everything that he is trying to do. This is the guy I started the "I'm Out" conversation with back in January, that thought about writing me up, but decided that he didn't write up family members that were no longer interested, so he wouldn't write me up.

You see, he is trying to recover me to a certain extent.

He is a died in the wool cultie, but I think I can get him out still. He is also a good guy. We had a mutual respect for each other because we helped others out in spite of what it costs ourselves, so we developed a strong friendship. We had the friendship that you develop while being in the cult and in those ridiculous conditions, if you know what I mean LOL!!

Talking about what pieces of tek are good and aren't doesn't look like it would work, not that I'm trying to use that. Talking about what pieces of tek we liked and didn't like as Ex-Scn is a bit of a powder keg in and of itself. This has caused me to really turn myself inside out and take a look at it.

Take the subject of conditions. My friend went so far as to start reading "success" books, Stephen Covey, etc. He didn't do it as a way of validating the works of El-con in this area, he was looking for more data in this area that he has struggled with since being IN. He complains of always finding himself in a danger condition, and wants to stop it. My contention is that the conditions do punish the statistical representation of what danger looks like, in spite of being a common occurrence. I don't know if others have that opinion, or an even better one.

At any rate, I am in this ongoing thing with my old friend. I spite of all all still think he is a good guy, and he thinks I am a good guy. Separated only by the efforts to create a trap.
 

Veda

Well-known member
This thread is very interesting to me now, really! All kinds of interesting things going on here, especially to someone like me. I may not be the baby in the house of the out of scamatology family, but I am still certainly jail bait lol! I appreciate the conversations that are occurring here.

So I am talking to my friend that is still IN scamatology yesterday. We live in different parts of the country, he's doing two jobs so that he can afford everything that he is trying to do. This is the guy I started the "I'm Out" conversation with back in January, that thought about writing me up, but decided that he didn't write up family members that were no longer interested, so he wouldn't write me up.

You see, he is trying to recover me to a certain extent.

He is a died in the wool cultie, but I think I can get him out still. He is also a good guy. We had a mutual respect for each other because we helped others out in spite of what it costs ourselves, so we developed a strong friendship. We had the friendship that you develop while being in the cult and in those ridiculous conditions, if you know what I mean LOL!!

Talking about what pieces of tek are good and aren't doesn't look like it would work, not that I'm trying to use that. Talking about what pieces of tek we liked and didn't like as Ex-Scn is a bit of a powder keg in and of itself. This has caused me to really turn myself inside out and take a look at it.

Take the subject of conditions. My friend went so far as to start reading "success" books, Stephen Covey, etc. He didn't do it as a way of validating the works of El-con in this area, he was looking for more data in this area that he has struggled with since being IN. He complains of always finding himself in a danger condition, and wants to stop it. My contention is that the conditions do punish the statistical representation of what danger looks like, in spite of being a common occurrence. I don't know if others have that opinion, or an even better one.

At any rate, I am in this ongoing thing with my old friend. I spite of all all still think he is a good guy, and he thinks I am a good guy. Separated only by the efforts to create a trap.
The ex Scientologist who goes by the alias Veda at the Ex Scientologist Message Board and Ex Scientologist Message Board 2 ((ESMB and ESMB2) asked what would you tell yourself.

He was asking ex Scientologists this question, and I obviously was in Scientology for twenty five years and would want to get the younger version of me to avoid Scientology absolutely as much as possible.

Here is a description:



"ID called "VEDA" posted an interesting question on ESMB R



If it were possible to travel back in time, and you, could have talked with you [insert date when you were first becoming involved with Scientology] what would you have said? What questions would you have asked knowing what you know now...



Would the you - then - have listened to the you now?"




I would have told myself to stick with my family and talk to Jon Atack about the truth about Scientology. I would have read his articles on hypnosis and the occult in Scientology.



I would look at the information on critical thinking and the scientific method I have learned since leaving Scientology and realize that Scientology is a pseudoscience and fraud. I would look at the information on human predators and cultic relationships and realize that Scientology fits perfectly.



I would give myself a list of people who have good information on these topics, starting with Jon Atack and I would give myself first some basic things then progress to entire books on these subjects and explain to myself how things like rhetoric, propaganda analysis, logical fallacies and cognitive biases relate to Scientology and how I can use them beyond Scientology.



I would try to take everything I have learned over the last six years and break it down to the absolute most important parts in a digestible sized group of tiny bits and have them progress to bigger and bigger parts. Hopefully the small articles and videos I start with will make me curious enough to read the books.



I think it is useful to actually look at what helped, why and how.



There is no guarantee that anything that would help me (potentially) is the exact right fit for any particular person.



I would probably start with The Total Freedom Trap article by Jon Atack.



That is not extremely long and hits lots of important points on things like what judges have said about Scientology, the hypnosis Hubbard incorporated in Scientology covertly, Hubbard's misadventures and plagiarism involving the occult and his intention to make money off of Scientology.



I would probably go to the article Never Believe a Hypnotist by Jon Atack and the articles I used for my own post on hypnosis so I could get a rudimentary introduction to the subject. I would also include a collection of YouTube videos I have seen on hypnosis to help me understand the basic ideas in the subject. The list of videos on hypnosis is in the blog post Burning Down Hell - How Commands Are Hidden, Varied And Repeated To Control You As Hypnotic Implants.



I would share the collection of quotes called Twenty Things Judges Have Said About Scientology, because that many people describing Scientology in those terms might have been good enough of a warning by itself to get me to stay away from Scientology.



I have to emphasize that my objective in this hypothetical time travel scenario is to keep myself from joining Scientology or believing in Scientology, not necessarily to educate myself and transplant everything I know now to past me.



So, I would be far more concerned with being effective and rapidly getting myself to reject Scientology, so I would try for the shortest path to that outcome, not the most extensive.

If I (past me) learned everything I (current me) know outside of my personal experience then great but if I learn just enough to know I want nothing to do with Scientology then my primary objective would be achieved.



I would try to get my objective by using articles and short YouTube videos at first because the chance that I (or most people) would actually finish short free articles and short free videos is much, much higher than the chance that I would finish a stack of books or even a few or one book.



It's just human nature. I might have trouble finding a book or trouble getting a lot of hours free with enough sleep to absorb what I read or get bored with a book and set it down too early.



So, I would try to get the topics of plagiarized ideas from hypnosis (and a very, very basic understanding of hypnosis) in Scientology and Hubbard's extensive knowledge of hypnosis and the same thing regarding the occult conveyed.



I would try to get across the crimes Hubbard and the Guardian's Office committed across, including operation snow white and I would try to get across the cruelty and lack of compassion that Hubbard put into Scientology administration and ethics tech across.



I would try to expose the fact that Hubbard really wanted fame, money and power by going over the games maker tape (Philadelphia Doctorate Course tape 39) in which Hubbard described how he created Scientology to secretly enslave people, the Skipper letter to show that he was only out for himself and the affirmations to show that he was sincerely committed to the occult or desired it to be true and tried to enslave people via hypnosis and was profoundly self-centered and narcissistic.



I have a lot of blog posts that address these issues and think that they are effective at debunking Scientology for some people who have never been in Scientology and for some who have been in Scientology. Some people who have been in Scientology have read some of my posts then let me know that after reading them they have rejected Scientology. A few have done some Scientology courses, for example, then read my posts on Scientology indoctrination and told me they were on the fence regarding going back and decided to not go back ever after reading these posts. Obviously no one way is guaranteed to work with everyone. I think the less that someone has been indoctrinated in Scientology and bought into it the easier it is , on average, to warn them effectively and to disabuse them of any idea that Scientology is good or debunk any belief in Scientology as something positive. I would include a lot of quotes on the racism and religious discrimination of Hubbard because that alone might be enough to get me to run the other way.



I will list some of the posts that have the information I would give to "young me" to warn myself off. I hope this is of some use to someone. Now to just find that time travel device...



Thought Reform/Influence

Insidious Enslavement : Study Technology

Scientology Was Ron Hubbard's Private Game


Plagiarism In Scientology - Likely Sources

Possible origins for Dianetics and Scientology


Scientology Doctrine and the Words of Ronald Hubbard

A Psychiatric View With Comments On The Admissions...

Ron Hubbard On Psychology

HCO BULLETIN OF 17 MARCH 1969 POLITICS


Scientology and Responsibility


Why Lying And Murder Are Justified In Scientology ...

Why Lying And Murder Are Justified In Scientology ...


Why Lying And Murder Are Justified In Scientology ...


Scientology Racism - Can The Cult Deny It ?
Suggested Reading Scientology RACISM
Scientology Antisemitism "Jewish Bankers" conspira...


Scientology's fight for apartheid The secret histo...
Scientology Racism can the Church Deny It ? Again


References to Study

Jon Atack - Scientology Expert

Scientology as Described by Experts - Jon Atack

"Never believe a hypnotist"

Hana Eltringham Whitfield talk

Lermanet.com's Great Finds Regarding Scientology

George Orwell: Two Essential Short Articles For Ev...

From Science-fiction to Fiction-science

The Anderson Report - Scientology and Hypnosis Rep...


Twenty Things Judges Have Said About Scientology

Hypnosis and Covert Persuasion

Basic Introduction to Hypnosis in Scientology

Burning Down Hell - How Commands Are Hidden , Vari...

The Critical Factor

Scientology Assists and Objectives as Hypnosis

Hubbard on Hypnosis
Very good information, but it neglects the not all negative, in and of itself, window dressing part of Scientology, that is used to lure.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
This thread is very interesting to me now, really! All kinds of interesting things going on here, especially to someone like me. I may not be the baby in the house of the out of scamatology family, but I am still certainly jail bait lol! I appreciate the conversations that are occurring here.

So I am talking to my friend that is still IN scamatology yesterday. We live in different parts of the country, he's doing two jobs so that he can afford everything that he is trying to do. This is the guy I started the "I'm Out" conversation with back in January, that thought about writing me up, but decided that he didn't write up family members that were no longer interested, so he wouldn't write me up.

You see, he is trying to recover me to a certain extent.

He is a died in the wool cultie, but I think I can get him out still. He is also a good guy. We had a mutual respect for each other because we helped others out in spite of what it costs ourselves, so we developed a strong friendship. We had the friendship that you develop while being in the cult and in those ridiculous conditions, if you know what I mean LOL!!

Talking about what pieces of tek are good and aren't doesn't look like it would work, not that I'm trying to use that. Talking about what pieces of tek we liked and didn't like as Ex-Scn is a bit of a powder keg in and of itself. This has caused me to really turn myself inside out and take a look at it.

Take the subject of conditions. My friend went so far as to start reading "success" books, Stephen Covey, etc. He didn't do it as a way of validating the works of El-con in this area, he was looking for more data in this area that he has struggled with since being IN. He complains of always finding himself in a danger condition, and wants to stop it. My contention is that the conditions do punish the statistical representation of what danger looks like, in spite of being a common occurrence. I don't know if others have that opinion, or an even better one.

At any rate, I am in this ongoing thing with my old friend. I spite of all all still think he is a good guy, and he thinks I am a good guy. Separated only by the efforts to create a trap.
when I read up about Aristotle 3 types of friendship. That opened me eyes on what a true friend is. We all have true friends.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
I had invested myself so deeply in the scam that I didn't really have friends outside of it. I realized this somewhere in the twilight of my "stint", but being in the cult didn't allow for developing many friendships, didn't it?
yah, I can see that. I had developed friends in elementary school, high school and college. Still in touch with some of them, this before scientology.

Being born in and knowing or developing friendship while in, well, that would certainly be a different story. And grays in between.
 
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