Scientologie 1934

[pineapple]

funny and annoying is it when you yawn, and you get told "you have an mu"
And notice this example of how, even when we reject and oppose the dogma and indoctrination of Scientology, we don't realize how much the impressions yet remain ingrained (You're use of the term "Dev-t") We think we're all the way out, but who really knows if we ever fully get there, or how long that will take.

The lingo is still useful when I'm talking to others who understand it. With "Dev-T" I knew what I was doing. I glossed it for those who might not understand, but I don't think there's a non-scio equivalent that expresses the same meaning so concisely.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Some newer members here may not know about this bit of history. As I recall . . .

Post-Scientology, David Mayo believed that parts of Scientology could be recast as a therapy
without all the complexity and harmful stuff of the COS. He took the basic techniques of New
Era Dianetics and reworked them into something named Traumatic Incident Reduction (TIR),
which is described in the book introducing Metapsychology (1995) by Frank Gerbode. They
gave a nod to Freud and his earlier work in the similar vein.

So, Mayo believed a beneficial talk therapy could be developed. That said, Metapsychology
and TIR did not exactly set the world on fire. I have the book, but have to admit I haven't read
it. Just browsed through it a few times. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I bought Beyond Trauma and Intro to Metapsychology. Robert Moore did a lot of TIR in my area.

The Core Curriculum goes really deep and even has a way of handling GPMs and Service Facsimiles. Was surprised Gerbode got away with such a close copy of the Bridge. They blended right into the age where insurance would validate Post Traumatic Stress cases.

You can tell by the links in the left column that the Gerbode team rebranded the tech.

About Applied Metapsychology International (AMI)

Applied Metapsychology International (AMI) (first called the Institute for Research in Metapsychology), was founded by Frank A. Gerbode, MD in 1984 for the purpose of developing, researching, and d…

www.appliedmetapsychology.org

 

[I M Dex]

I bought Beyond Trauma and Intro to Metapsychology. Robert Moore did a lot of TIR in my area.

The Core Curriculum goes really deep and even has a way of handling GPMs and Service Facsimiles. Was surprised Gerbode got away with such a close copy of the Bridge. They blended right into the age where insurance would validate Post Traumatic Stress cases.

I've never evaluated it, but David Mayo and Sarge struck a deal with the CoS, agreeing that it was ok to publish, contingent on omitting Scn terms and references. Why the CoS agreed, I can't say, other than there must have been angle, because altruism isn't in their lexicon.

 

[I M Dex]

The lingo is still useful when I'm talking to others who understand it. With "Dev-T" I knew what I was doing. I glossed it for those who might not understand, but I don't think there's a non-scio equivalent that expresses the same meaning so concisely.

I've heard other people say that. But how about "waste of time"

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Was surprised Gerbode got away with such a close copy of the Bridge.

maybe it's because the 'bridge' is itself so much a copy of other things, there was no defense against it being used?

I've never evaluated it, but David Mayo and Sarge struck a deal with the CoS, agreeing that it was ok to publish, contingent on omitting Scn terms and references. Why the CoS agreed, I can't say, other than there must have been angle, because altruism isn't in their lexicon.

i bet that a good piece of it was that the CoS knew (or was told by its lawyers) that if it got to court, all the arguments and evidence over how LRH plagiarized earlier things -- and how much was contributed by others, not him -- would have been ugly if not devastating.

 

[KKS]

Everything is stolen Lafayette Ronald Hubbard was born in 1911, so enough time to pick some catch frases up.

 

[I M Dex]

maybe it's because the 'bridge' is itself so much a copy of other things, there was no defense against it being used?



i bet that a good piece of it was that the CoS knew (or was told by its lawyers) that if it got to court, all the arguments and evidence over how LRH plagiarized earlier things -- and how much was contributed by others, not him -- would have been ugly if not devastating.

That makes sense, wanting to perpetuate the "LRH is source" myth.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Everything is stolen Lafayette Ronald Hubbard was born in 1911, so enough time to pick some catch frases up.

He stole that body too.

 

[KKS]

He stole that body too.

He did and wrecked it, that body was fine before he picked it up. not that I am a prize but I just turned 50 and can run up and down stairs no problem.

 

[I M Dex]

He did and wrecked it, that body was fine before he picked it up. not that I am a prize but I just turned 50 and can run up and down stairs no problem.

This reminds me- my son has twice done the 30-mile Spartan Race event. I did a Spartan Race event with him once, but not the 30-mile event. I've told him, "Hey, I could run 30 miles, just not all in the same month"

 

[KKS]

Oh my, I have it even worse, My Dad won national gold in a speedwalking event in his age category of 70 to 75 not long ago, but recently he won another gold national medal in his new age caterory age 75 to 80 in speedwalking.

This reminds me- my son has twice done the 30-mile Spartan Race event. I did a Spartan Race event with him once, but not the 30-mile event. I've told him, "Hey, I could run 30 miles, but not all in the same month"

 

[I M Dex]

Oh my, I have it even worse, My Dad won national gold in a speedwalking event in his age category of 70 to 75 not long ago, but recently he won another gold national medal in his new age caterory age 75 to 80 in speedwalking.

Nice! I'll be 70 next year, and I still play a very competitive game of basketball twice a week with a group that is largely roughly 25 years younger than me. Dominated in the final game of last night

 

[KKS]

Nice! I'll be 70 next year, and I still play a very competitive game of basketball twice a week with a group that is largely roughly 25 years younger than me. Dominated in the final game of last night

I can still mount some stairs LOL. But that aside I am very good on a bicycle, you know the ones in The Netherlands

 

[Hatshepsut]

I'm finally replying here Chess. I meandered some.

Chess wrote

I happen to agree with Filbert in certain things. I've audited many PCs and had a heap done on myself. Something always seemed to be missing in Scientology and I see it in many other religions, doctrines etc too and that is the upper Dynamics Filbert talks/writes about. Hubbard took Scientology only as far as the lower 7. His axioms, scales etc, are all part and parcel to the lower 7 of this MESTy universe which we presently reside. This puts the upper dynamics in contention with the lower ones and effectively nullifies the true spiritual attributes of the being themselves. The upper ones are, 9 Aesthetics, 10 Ethics (both copyrighted by Hubbard but he didn't "look" further) 11 Decency, 12 Truth, 13 Awareness, 14 Individuality, 15 Coexistence & 16 Theta that is not being.

I have the original printed Excalibur Revisited. Filbert revised it a few years ago and changed the order of the chapters. Some chapters are much abbreviated or left out but it reads more easily online. I had a friend who wanted to run The Last Ditch and the Human Loop. I didn't want the introspection. Filbert got to a point where TAO was everything. Why bother with auditing the past after that. The mind can be tossed out as you don't need it. . It's full of lies anyhow.

Were you ever audited by Geoff Filbert?

Those mysterious upper dynamics,9th to 11th, got lip service in the magazines back in the early 80s. Then no exact levels were given to help you get there.

To me that tells me each person has one foot in this physical universe and one foot outside of it, unless they invalidate the upper dynamics, ie themselves and fall into the soup.

I believe we do have one foot in, and one foot out of this universe. And the whole of our being isn't really submerged here either.

The upper Dynamics are not part of this universe. They are spiritual urges senior to the lower ones.
That is my present take on things. When I audited people, lots of lower bridge ones, I liked to validate them, handle what they wanted handled and started disregarding some of Hubbard's dogmatic dribble, introverting rudiments, sec checks etc and failing to adhere to code of audit the PC in front of you. The PCs loved it, it got me in trouble, but lead me to walking out of Scientology Churches forever. They are spiritual poison the way they practice.
Whatever floats your boat I reckon but keep those upper urges intact.

A lot of people got into trouble for auditing the PC in front of them. In the end, that was the problem with the AAC too. Old timers from Saint Hill wanted to keep the rote standard tech. C/Ses started to be creative, with handled items noted from the clients' sessions. I mean, Lol, if you recall, the 'standard' repair list items called off for reads, weren't even things the PC understood. The PC didn't have any knowledge about the Clearing Course platens..... or wrong Conditions among staffers.

I love the Alan Walter Knowledgism stuff. He went straight for the God level. And teams of Gods!
The Paradigm Matrix book, Gods in Disguise, and the Holistic Futures workbook, are all dog-eared, but still get used in this house. His Presence drills surprised many with their effectiveness. Alan Walter said an auditor has to first notice Who or What is sitting in front of him: A God?, a spirit, an identity, a mind, or human body?.....etc. Each type identity is distinctly solving their own kind of problem. And that's how you audit the PC in front of you and the case in front of you. On the Bridge you ignored this and simply did the next level. I'm with you on that point.

 

[Chess]

I'm finally replying here Chess. I meandered some.



I have the original printed Excalibur Revisited. Filbert revised it a few years ago and changed the order of the chapters. Some chapters are much abbreviated or left out but it reads more easily online. I had a friend who wanted to run The Last Ditch and the Human Loop. I didn't want the introspection. Filbert got to a point where TAO was everything. Why bother with auditing the past after that. The mind can be tossed out as you don't need it. . It's full of lies anyhow.

Were you ever audited by Geoff Filbert?

Those mysterious upper dynamics,9th to 11th, got lip service in the magazines back in the early 80s. Then no exact levels were given to help you get there.



I believe we do have one foot in, and one foot out of this universe. And the whole of our being isn't really submerged here either.


A lot of people got into trouble for auditing the PC in front of them. In the end, that was the problem with the AAC too. Old timers from Saint Hill wanted to keep the rote standard tech. C/Ses started to be creative, with handled items noted from the clients' sessions. I mean, Lol, if you recall, the 'standard' repair list items called off for reads, weren't even things the PC understood. The PC didn't have any knowledge about the Clearing Course platens..... or wrong Conditions among staffers.

I love the Alan Walter Knowledgism stuff. He went straight for the God level. And teams of Gods!
The Paradigm Matrix book, Gods in Disguise, and the Holistic Futures workbook, are all dog-eared, but still get used in this house. His Presence drills was surprised many with their effectiveness. Alan Walter said an auditor has to first notice Who or What is sitting in front of him: A God?, a spirit, and identity, a mind, or human body .....etc. Each thing is distinctly solving their own kind of problem. And that's how you audit the PC in front of you and the case in front of you. On the Bridge you ignored this and simply did the next level. I'm with you on that point.

[/QUOTE]
No, never met the man. I don't adhere to set routines very well, yet most of my younger life was full of discipline and set routines, even a decade on staff - guess I finally flattened that process. I find all things are in a constant flux of change, some fast but most creepily slow and it's more of a valuable skill just being in the present. I have long since thrown nearly all authorities under the bus. I trust my instincts to the degree I will try things on myself. I know when my case runs with something. Still kicking! Some (not all) of Filbert's stuff I find works for me and introduces new things out of the old or introduces some as a surprise. I respect his motives for writing such a book, he didn't do it for money or fame that's for sure. However, I put no person on a pedestal, everyone has shortcomings.
I guess the one torment with Scientology I do have is when I walked out of the org (middle finger erect) after a decade of giving it my all, the students, public (we had those things in my day) and 1/2 the staff signed & sent me a big A4 sized card pleading for me to reconsider and come back. Of my original platoon in the army, discharge in the early 80s I know of only 2 remaining. Both are like hermits.
Oh, thanks for the list of books. Some lite reading in the sun... might venture a look one day if the urge comes along.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Chess
No, never met the man. I don't adhere to set routines very well, yet most of my younger life was full of discipline and set routines, even a decade on staff - guess I finally flattened that process. I find all things are in a constant flux of change, some fast but most creepily slow and it's more of a valuable skill just being in the present. I have long since thrown nearly all authorities under the bus. I trust my instincts to the degree I will try things on myself. I know when my case runs with something. Still kicking! Some (not all) of Filbert's stuff I find works for me and introduces new things out of the old or introduces some as a surprise. I respect his motives for writing such a book, he didn't do it for money or fame that's for sure. However, I put no person on a pedestal, everyone has shortcomings.
I guess the one torment with Scientology I do have is when I walked out of the org (middle finger erect) after a decade of giving it my all, the students, public (we had those things in my day) and 1/2 the staff signed & sent me a big A4 sized card pleading for me to reconsider and come back. Of my original platoon in the army, discharge in the early 80s I know of only 2 remaining. Both are like hermits.
Oh, thanks for the list of books. Some lite reading in the sun... might venture a look one day if the urge comes along.

I was in the private message box when I should've been paying attention in live time.

Excal Rev 2016 Full Final.pdf

Yes, it is funny how some processing tools work and other just don't hit the mark, even within the same sets and grade level. I think it's because we're more or less oriented in a certain way by the masses we're sandwiched between. One thing won't let you have another thing, until it's out of the way. I have this thing with Alan Walter's material where I never get it at first. It hits me out of the blue...weeks later, Then, I get the aha moment. Lolol. I'm dense that way, and it's gotta filter down through a bit . But, it will eventually get there.

Your army buddies weren't in the diving squad were they, Chess? I'd be guessing that becoming a hermit is the result of injuries, trauma or addictions?

You do feel alone and isolated when you don't have the same shared experiences with anyone. You just don't fit in there anymore once something horrific happens.

Running R3R, I would hit upon some occluded atrocity committed while a soldier. My whole body would lock up with the memory. I'd try to freeze the motion while inside the killing machine; (phalanx) way back in some ancient Greek wars. No vias, like planes or tanks or drones. Kinda had the notion I'd be born female, so I'd never be in that situation again.

A decade on staff is a long time. My husband wore out after 3 years. No money, no hope, no future, no more wife. Everyone loved him. Handled public. Division 6. It's nice to have people you work with and for, want badly for you to stay. It feels almost like a mini-death to give up an all engrossing position.....and not have another immediately there. At least for me.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

A lot of people got into trouble for auditing the PC in front of them. In the end, that was the problem with the AAC too. Old timers from Saint Hill wanted to keep the rote standard tech. C/Ses started to be creative, with handled items noted from the clients' sessions.

that to me is the one thing that really 'works' if anything in scn, from my perspective with some training in therapy -- when a therapist actually listens to the client, which is the key to all modalities. i run across stories of people really liking particular auditors, and it sounds like it was because they were listened to -- probably by people with natural empathetic listening abilities, who used those and did what they did more in spite of Hubbard's structure than because of it.

the idea of a therapy that is rote and based on things like lists, is unworkable. but besides being overly structured, Hubbard's methodology is actually rather directive, such as assuming that past life memories exist and all people should have them -- and then using subtly leading techniques under hypnotic 'reverie' to extract them, that will pretty much always fall into the trap of eliciting imagined false memories instead, such as happened in the Bridey Murphy case, or the infamous cases of allegations of satanic ritual abuse in preschools.

 

[Chess]

I was in the private message box when I should've been paying attention in live time.

Excal Rev 2016 Full Final.pdf

Yes, it is funny how some processing tools work and other just don't hit the mark, even within the same sets and grade. I think it's because we're more or less oriented in a certain way by the masses we're sandwiched between. One thing won't let you have another thing, until it's out of the way. I have this thing with Alan Walter's material where I never get it at first It hits me awkwardly.....until weeks late, I get the aha moment. Lolol. I'm dense that way, and it's gotta filter down through a bit . But, it will eventually get there.

Your army buddies weren't in the diving squad were they, Chess? I'd be guessing that becoming a hermit is the result of injuries, trauma or addictions?

You do feel alone and isolated when you don't have the same shared experiences with anyone. You just don't fit in there anymore once something horrific happens.

Running R3R, I would hit upon some occluded atrocity committed while a soldier. My whole body would lock up with the memory. I'd try to freeze the motion while inside the killing machine; (phalanx) way back in some ancient Greek wars. No vias, like planes or tanks or drones. Kinda had the notion I'd be born female, so I'd never be in that situation again.

A decade on staff is a long time. My husband wore out after 3 years. No money, no hope, no future, no more wife. Everyone loved him. Handled public. Division 6. It's nice to have people you work with and for, want badly for you to stay. It feels almost like a mini-death to give up an all engrossing position.....and not have another immediately there. At least for me.

What I really like about Filbert is the lower bridge auditing he proposes and the importance of the grades done properly, especially the Drug Rdn and the way it's run, not the same as the Cof$ does it. Even when it's over the PC can add to it as they come up with more items later on. Was thinking about writing a short dissertation on what I reckon of it, maybe?? I was sup when the co-audit came out on it and had to do the auditing steps in the academy - if I wasn't busy enough. Another of Master Squirrel Miscavige's dull ideas. Even Hubbard said it was to be done in the HGC.
No, those army buddies were senior NCOs and just faded into oblivion after retirement, especially with alcohol. As beings they just seemed to shut up shop spiritually. NFI (not f..king interested), was their response about talking about their experiences. I was the last diver in the regiment, there were only ever 3 of us, then 2. Diving sort of faded out after I left. I did the occasional bit of police assistance back then. They were always short staffed. I really salute those guys, unsung heros, dirty and dangerous work. Didn't appreciate being called out at all hours though. More than once I've dived hungover. Mainly searching for bodies or suspected bodies of missing people.
Comm lags are good aren't they? That's what I have resorted to convincing myself of.
Yeah, soldiering is a case creator and a half. It really helps if your auditor understands the life. Atrocities indeed, hard or damn near impossible to erase some of them.

 

[I M Dex]

that to me is the one thing that really 'works' if anything in scn, from my perspective with some training in therapy -- when a therapist actually listens to the client, which is the key to all modalities. i run across stories of people really liking particular auditors, and it sounds like it was because they were listened to -- probably by people with natural empathetic listening abilities, who used those and did what they did more in spite of Hubbard's structure than because of it.

the idea of a therapy that is rote and based on things like lists, is unworkable. but besides being overly structured, Hubbard's methodology is actually rather directive, such as assuming that past life memories exist and all people should have them -- and then using subtly leading techniques under hypnotic 'reverie' to extract them, that will pretty much always fall into the trap of eliciting imagined false memories instead, such as happened in the Bridey Murphy case, or the infamous cases of allegations of satanic ritual abuse in preschools.

In one ore of many classic examples of talking out of both sides of his mouth, Hubbard, who emphasized "audit the PC in front of you" dictated a pro forma "bridge" standard sequence of processes based on his projection of "everybody's case needs the same steps in the same sequence", outlawing and branding "squirrel" any variation that might better suit the individual, because in truth, Hubbard was always about perfecting the image of "person to person, 'the bank' is the same". In truth, there is no "bank" containing and isolating the lump of 'all case'; that is merely his rebranded borrowed concept of "the unconscious mind", which was nothing more than a theory of psychology, and nobody ever fully achieved the stated "EP's" of the standardized "lower grades", or anything else on "the bridge", for that matter.

But other than that, Dianetics and Scientology were "a discovery as important as the wheel and fire".

 

[pineapple]

I've heard other people say that. But how about "waste of time"

"Dev-T" saves you one whole syllable.