OT VIII "Confidential" Student Briefing

Veda

Well-known member
I'm come across many who don't believe it was actually Hubbard's voice on RJ 38 and/or 39. But came across this as well (on Marty's blog from 2013).

In the bottom quote from Mike Rinder he's responding to "RD" who doesn't believe that it is LRH's voice.

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There's a complication.

That's January 2013. (Dates can be important.)

Rinder changed.

DEC 2012 was in phase one

March 2014 was in phase two

Not sure when Rinder shifted from phase one to phase two, but the above quote is only a month from phase one and is probably in phase one.

This post from ESMB1 will clarify:

The Two Mikes and three Martys https://exscn.net/forum/threads/rathbun-saw-the-light-then-was-crushed.50516/#post-1220272 thread
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Wow. Maybe it was him.

If it is, that really surprises me.

I still have serious doubts as to whether it was him. Back when listening to RJ 39 (when I was still in) something seemed way off and some alarm bells went off in my head.

Others who listened to way more LRH recordings than I ever did felt the same.

Back on that 2011 thread from ESMB I linked to above, DulloldFart wrote:

paul's comment.PNG

I vaguely recall that discussion to which he refers, but haven't been able to locate it as yet.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
There's a complication.

That's January 2013. (Dates can be important.)

Rinder changed.

DEC 2012 was in phase one

March 2014 was in phase two

Not sure when Rinder shifted from phase one to phase two, but the above quote is only a month from phase one and is probably in phase one.

This post from ESMB1 will clarify:

The Two Mikes and three Martys https://exscn.net/forum/threads/rathbun-saw-the-light-then-was-crushed.50516/#post-1220272 thread

I'm easily confused.

Does this mean that Rinder said earlier it was LRH, but now he may be saying something different?
 

Veda

Well-known member
I'm easily confused.

Does this mean that Rinder said earlier it was LRH, but now he may be saying something different?
It means that Mike Rinder in December 2012 stated the opposite of what he stated in March 2014, on a number of different topics.

If anyone cares what Mike Rinder thinks about this topic then there are two paths: Consult the record of his blog or any other public communications to see if he changed his mind, or ask him about it now.
 

Caroline

clerk #2
Quotes from The Expert Witness by Jesse Prince:

Book Review by Terri Gillham Gamboa
[...]
A few of the key subjects revealed here:
[...]
► The fraud and scam of OT 8, a level one reaches only after spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in the “church”

Prince, Jesse. The Expert Witness: My Life at the Top of Scientology . Prince Publishing. Kindle Edition.

The release of the new OT 8 was scheduled to happen on the Scientology cruise ship, the Freewinds. I declined the invitation to go to the Freewinds with David Miscavige and Ray Mithoff. David was being coy with me in that he wouldn’t let me see the information that Ray had compiled and called new OT 8. Since I was still on OT 7, I didn’t quite qualify. Of course, the hypocrisy is David was even less prepared than me because he was at a much lower level. That didn’t seem to matter. David said it would be a relatively small event in that there were not very many people within Scientology who qualified for the service. He said we would put it out there, and Scientology organizations could begin to collect money for the service. Dave and Ray took off for the Freewinds Ship to release New OT 8. After a few days they returned. Dave seemed pretty upset when he got back, and I could tell things did not go as planned. Within a few days, I caught up with Ray Mithoff and asked him about the OT 8 release. Ray said the event was a complete disaster, and the new OT 8 materials were not well received.
[...]
Ray Mithoff chose not to act like an idiot when I asked to see what was so objectionable about these new super-secret materials they had released to qualified public on the Freewinds cruise ship. I discovered that the version of OT 8 they had released had a special super-secret post-mortem message from L Ron concerning certain prophecies from the Book of Revelations in the Christian Bible.
The document that was compiled from notes and research documentation is, in fact, the only document I have ever seen within Scientology that accurately reflects L Ron’s state of mind and his intention for Scientology. Without further ado I will read and translate the message from that document now.
The document identifies itself as a student briefing. L Ron begins by informing the reader as follows; by the time you read this I will no longer be occupying the body or have the identity you have known as L Ron Hubbard.
Next, L Ron gets down to business and tells them that the following story has been withheld for reasons which will soon be obvious, but he had to wait until more people were ensnared in the Scientology OT levels.
He goes on to disclose yet again that his identity, L Ron Hubbard was, in fact, the reincarnated Buddha whose actual name is Metteya. However, L Ron must’ve had some of the Indian god Shiva in him as well to achieve that multi-character effect. While he claimed to be Metteya, he also claims he was busy doing the Antichrist role as explained in the Christian Bible, book of Revelations.
L Ron declares that he assumed these multiple identities in order to fulfill a prophesy. As L Ron documented the wonders and glory of himself, he took a moment to gossip about Jesus Christ of all people. There’s no way to make this up so I’ll just paraphrase what L Ron had to say.
No doubt you are familiar with the Revelations section of the Bible, L. Ron continued, where various events are predicted, including a brief period of time in which the arch-enemy of Christ, referred to as the Antichrist, will reign, and his opinions will have sway. This antichrist represents the forces of Lucifer, the light bearer or light bringer. Lucifer being a mythical representation of the forces of enlightenment and the Galactic Confederacy. My mission could be said to fulfill the biblical promise represented by this brief Antichrist time.
L Ron goes on to tell us some personal details about Jesus Christ himself. L Ron said Jesus was not the saintly figure he has been made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men, he was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love, understanding and other typical Space Opera public relations.
I remember sitting in Ray’s office reading over this document and wondering why he had allowed this to see the light of day. When this information was given to Scientologists that had been carefully prepared to receive the information, things did not go as expected. I can only go by what Ray told me in that one couple after having read the blasphemy of Jesus demanded a refund of their monies, and they left the Freewinds looking for an exorcist.
Ray reported that OT 8 was not very well received by the public at all, and it would need a total rework. This is what L Ron left us to work with, and this is how it was being received.
[...]
I remember thinking about the disaster that was OT 8 – incomprehensible nonsense. If OT 8 was any example of the unreleased secret levels L Ron had left behind for us to sell to Scientology staff and public then I needed to start running for my life, but I couldn’t make myself move.
Prince, Jesse. The Expert Witness: My Life at the Top of Scientology . Prince Publishing. Kindle Edition.
 

Caroline

clerk #2
Can't think of any Scientologists who'd be upset at Jesus Christ be blasphemed, but probably most would be upset to hear that evil beings outside the MEST universe are making it impossible for them to become OT.
Good point.

I think it would also be understandably upsetting for most Scientologists to learn the whole truth about what the "officers of the Church" did to further Hubbard's OT 8 lies and fraud. These "officers" who know the truth should reveal it fully.
 

cakemaker

Well-known member
This talk about OT VIII reminds me of this blurb from
HCOB 24 JAN 1977 TECH CORRECTION ROUNDUP,

X: ADVANCED GRADES

For a number of years people have wondered when OT VIII would be released.

Well, to tell you the honest truth, OT VIII has been in existence all those several
years, and to it has been added a very large number of OT grades. None of them have
been issued. Notes for all these grades are in existence.

What I have been waiting for is 2 or 3 months of free time to go over these
materials and write them up and make them available through Advanced Organizations.

Now I will make a bargain with you. If you get all the tech straightened out and
the orgs and flaps and emergencies off my lines and get your training in and your Word
Clearing in and everything flying and this civilization even more thoroughly pointed in a
civilized direction, you will buy me those 3 months’ worth of time so I will be able to
afford the time to write up all these Advanced Levels I have researched. Do your job
well and buy me these three months.

Is it a bargain?

LRH:act.lf.nt L. RON HUBBARD

Copyright © 1977 Founder
by L. Ron Hubbard
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Has anyone to date ventured a theory or even a wild guess as to why WHOLETRACK AMNESIA is "handled" by OT VIII---considering that the OT (on OT VIII) is merely doing a few hours of light recall of a handful of THIS LIFETIME auditing sessions where the pre-OT thought he WAS or WAS NOT a particular BT? How does this handle amnesia? The pre-OT handles tens of thousands of BTs from OT III thru OT VII, and they blew with an FN-----so why is this causing "wholetrack amnesia"? LOL

Consider this. The Pre-OT has lived for quadrillions of years, most of which he has been a degraded being, having been subjected to implants, GPMs, electronic engrams, exploding Xenu volcanos, et al.

Now, in the past several years (while the pre-OT was getting Scientology auditing) he ran some incidents. Let's estimate that the guy had a total of 300 hours of auditing. Maybe 20% of that (60 hours) was focused on running something "earlier similar" to a previous lifetime or otherwise bumping into some "wholetrack identity" of his/her previous lives.

You with me so far? Okay, then---of that 60 hours, perhaps 10% of those hours were moments IN SESSION that he/she might have thought the earlier identity (from the track) was his own esperience. That would translate to approximately 6 hours where he was "misidentifying himself" with a being he recalled during a session .
ERGO:​
- - - In 6 hours, this lifetime, while in session he/she mistakenly said/thought he was the supposed person in the supposed wholetrack incident he/she was supposedly erasing. This is why he has amnesia.​
- - - 6 hours of this-lifetime auditing vs. hundreds of quadrillions of years of engrams and implants; that's why he has amnesia, right?​
- - - When he changes his mind about the imaginary wholetrack incidents (during OT VIII) he blows wholetrack amnesia. To wit, he/she cognites: "WOW, when I was at Flag in 1986 and ran an earlier similar arc break and thought I was the person who blew up the entire galaxy, it was actually a plumber named Andy Wilson that blew it up! OMG, amazing!" Now the pre-OT no longer has wholetrack amnesia, right? Because he learned that Andy Wilson blew up the galaxy, so that is what prevented him from remembering hundreds of quadrillions of years.​
- - - Therefore, "Andy Wilson blew it up!" is the "TRUTH REVEALED" in OT VIII.​

EXPLANATION: When the pre-OT thinks HE/SHE blew up the galaxy, it makes him forget hundreds of quadrillions of years. But when he remembers that Andy Wilson blew up the galaxy, his amnesia blows.

EXPLANATION OF THE EXPLANATION: It's Scientology---it doesn't have to make sense.

.
 
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Caroline

clerk #2
HCOB 5 May 1980 Confidential Student Briefing was filed in Fishman. From Prof. Dave Tourtetzky's site:

Source of Fishman Documents
These documents are part of the record of the civil case Church of Scientology International v. Fishman and Geertz. Case no. CV 91-6426 HLH (Tx), U.S. District Court, Central District of California.
For over a year, the Church failed in its attempts to have the file sealed. It finally succeeded on August 15, 1995, after a staffer for the Washington Post obtained a copy from the court.
Until recently, copies of these documents could be obtained for 50 cents per page from the address below. Here is a convenient order form that will be useful once the records are unsealed again. Warning: personal checks are not accepted. You can use a business check, a cashier's check, or a postal money order.
Correspondence Clerk
Federal Courthouse
Central District of California
312 North Spring Street, Room G-8
Los Angeles, CA 90012-4724
(213) 894-3533 (for info re civil cases: press 5)
Electronic copies of Fishman's declaration, exhibits, OT materials, and change of venue filings were posted to alt.religion.scientology on August 2, 1995 by Arnie Lerma.
The Church's response to Lerma's post was to threaten legal action, and then to raid his house and carry off his computer. Lerma recently sent a petition to Judge Hupp asking for official permission to post the Fishman declaration on the internet.
Electronic copies of the affidavits by various other persons filed in conjunction with the case are made available courtesy of Jeff Jacobsen ([email protected]), whose sources appear to be:
  • FACTNet (Fight Against Coercive Tactics Network, Inc.) FACTNet is a nonprofit computer bulletin board and electronic lending library. BBS 303 530-1942, Office 303 473-0111, Fax 303 530-2950. 601 16th. St. Golden, CO. U.S.A.
    • Arnie Lerma
    • Homer Wilson Smith
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/court.html
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
REF: OT VIII - Reposted from the old ESMB archive:


In a bizarrely paradoxical cult moment. . .

The knowing-how-to-know people don't know that the bridge to total knowingness is a hoax and that the end phenomenon of the highest level is not-knowing. Cult marks actually attest to this on OT VIII:


"I NOW KNOW WHO I AM NOT AND I AM INTERESTED TO FIND OUT WHO I AM"​

THE BAD NEWS: The ideal scene atop the bridge is full OT (OBLIVIOUS THETAN).

The good news is that it's a win! The cult copywriters used a clever rhetorical gimmick to convert a person attesting to being CLUELESS into a big win and a big cognition! Even if you don't know, it's still knowingness, as follows:


"I NOW KNOW WHO I AM NOT AND I AM INTERESTED TO FIND OUT WHO I AM"
Wow! I just realized that I don't have any clue who I am! Amazing! And it only cost me 40 years and $1,000,000.

PRO-TIP: When you know, it's a huge win! When you don't know it's also a huge win! Now, do you finally understand why Ron can truthfully claim that: "Scientology is the only game in the universe were everyone wins!" LOL

.
 
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Hatshepsut

Well-known member
HelluvaHoax said
in a bizarrely paradoxical cult moment. . .

The knowing-how-to-know people don't know that the bridge to total knowingness is a hoax and that the end phenomenon of the highest level is not-knowing. Cult marks actually attest to this on OT VIII:
:cool:
I felt the level must be about decisions to Not Know. From a Zen perspective, you are either operating from a condition of mind or "no mind".

Harry Palmer has gone TAO with the AVATAR procedures. His first process was a discreation process for any identities or conditions of being. So, in a way, I guess he left Scientology in Elmira, N.Y. to set up his own version of OT VIII.....way back in the 80s.
Cheaper to handle subjects like those in OT VIII at Star's Edge..... only 2 hrs from Flag. :sneaky:

Section III – The Rundowns - The Avatar Course Oceania
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

OT VIII MADE SIMPLE - - WITHOUT THE CULTSPEAK RHETORICAL GIMMICKS

Let's remove all the abstractions from Scientology's highest level, OT VIII, and reduce it to plain English. Kindly recall that the OT VIII completion attests to:

"I now know who I am not, and I am interested to find out who I am."

To best understand OT VIII, we can simply change "THE BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM" to "THE BRIDGE TO TOTAL KNOWING".

At the bottom of the Bridge, the DB wog knows nothing and at the top they should know everything, right? However, if we exactly replicate the WOG to OT VIII trajectory, we get this as the End Phenomena that the OT VIII attests to:

"I now know that I don't know, and I am interested to find out something I do know"

When Scientology Clears the planet, other professionals will happily adopt the same "ideal scene" EPs.

examples:

- - Someone graduates "Car Mechanics University" by attesting to: "I now know that I don't know how to fix a car, but I am interested to find out."
- - Someone graduates "Medical School" by attesting to: "I now know that I don't know how to diagnose and treat a patient, but I am curious to find out more about that."
- - Someone graduates aviation school (and obtains a commerical pilot's license) by attesting to: "I now know that I don't know how to fly a commercial airplane, but it sounds cool to start transporting hundreds of passengers now--because I can always look into what all these cockpit control knobs, switches and levers are later. Hey don't worry so much, I am kinda interested in learning some more about how to avoid crashing and killing everyone."

CONCLUSION: The "EP" of every level in Scientology has nothing whatsoever to do with attaining any new "ability". The EP of every action in Scientology is simply "FEELING GOOD ABOUT IT". This explains why Scientologists can attest to anything at all and even yell with euphoric delight after making lavish donations to a hoax that later bankrupts them. Hey, what's not to like, they felt good about it!

.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
HelluvaHoax said


:cool:
I felt the level must be about decisions to Not Know. From a Zen perspective, you are either operating from a condition of mind or "no mind".
While on the Bridge to Total Freedom I advanced up to the state of "NOT KNOW".

Later I advanced up the Zen Bridge to a state of "NO MIND"

More recently, I advanced to the state of "NEVER MIND", where I rose above caring about states.

That last spiritual attainment is nearly perfect, except that they don't send you a completion certificate.

:hattip:

.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
More recently, I advanced to the state of "NEVER MIND", where I rose above caring about states.

That last spiritual attainment is nearly perfect, except that they don't send you a completion certificate.
"We think you've got it, the real EP!
Here's your official medallion."

HH2.jpg
:coolwink:
If I can write a slightly evaluative postscript . . . you seem to have
had a heavy weight lifted off of you in the past couple weeks :whistle:
and your creative juices are flowing at full song again. :evillaugh:
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
--snipped---
ESMB VIII (SPOILER REVEALED):​
If I can write a slightly evaluative postscript . . . you seem to have​
had a heavy weight lifted off of you in the past couple weeks :whistle:
and your creative juices are flowing at full song again. :evillaugh:

LOL!

Yeah, I had to slow down on the previous race track when they booby trapped it with atom bombs. LOL


.

"They had turbine-generated cars that went about 275 miles an hour. They ran with a high whine. I notice they've just now invented the motor again. And they had tracks that were booby-trapped with atom bombs, and they had side bypasses. The tracks were mined, and the grandstands were leaded-paned."​

.
 
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PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
HH ya seem to have something against "feeling good about it". If'n I want to spend $600,000 and feel good about it that's my freakin' right. I assert this with all my theta might.. I might even change my mind too. So don't even think you can make fun of it.

I never got to spend $600K, I feel so ripped off. Damn it.
 

freethinker

Controversial



________________________


This is a six year old video.
The person gave all her money to Scientology,
did OT 8,

and then joined staff.

________________________

The "EP' of New OT 8, succinctly put: "I don't know who I am."

__________________















She didn't write that. She was so happy that everyone else was there so she didn't have to feel like a fool all alone, she was in the company of fools who have the spaciest space you ever spaced out on. She was diesing up there and I sensed she wanted to go off script a few times. Those were the times she looked at her notes. I wonder if she is still in, I doubt it.
 
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