OT VIII "Confidential" Student Briefing

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
In theory, perhaps a good way to really entrap someone would be to strip them of identities, ostensibly to "free them" of identities that are not their true selves. They might like the though of being "truly myself", or something like that. The plug in something that you want them to be, if you think you know a way to do that. I think that he did.

Whether that really works or not, many a bright person has paid a lot of money to do that.

Say what you want. Know one here truly knows this answer, tech trained or not. Some smart people here, but I haven't seen the key to the vault yet. Unless someone wants to direct me somewhere else?
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
In many cases, IMO, these pictures were simply imagination. That an e-meter may have responded, IMO, means very little, although the e-meter responding, typically, would impress Scientologists greatly.
Loved the entire posting.

I feel that the meter can respond to imagination. There's an HCOB that at some point in
a person's ascendancy, the meter begins to respond to a person's postulates, that is,
willed thoughts or images. I think at clear. So be it.

That said, I've always thought that a person's imagination is the most powerful and
unlimited capability of the mind. Some having more imaginative skills than others
obviously. One's imagination in nearly infinitely endless (until one gets writer's block
again). Perhaps, the most wonderful near-magical capability a person has.

One could conclude that the whole subject of Scientology is one of drilling, improving
and working with the imagination. In fact, Hubbard's creative processing might have an
earlier antecedent in the 1890's in a therapy called guided imagination.

I could easily conclude that any gains I got through auditing -- and I did get what seemed
at the time some dramatic benefits -- could be due to drilling my imagination and
creative visualization skills. This is just something I've speculated about in hindsight.
Have to give some credit where credit is due.

But all those outcomes should have only taken a few months or years, not decades.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal of One
...
IMO, you need a few more years to get your bearings to recover fully from your Scientology experience.
Oh boy, here we go again; first you change my words and their context, then resort to a "helpful advice" ad hominem in order to belittle the man rather than addressing the message. :clapping:
 

Panda Termint

Cabal of One
....
I could easily conclude that any gains I got through auditing -- and I did get what seemed
at the time some dramatic benefits -- could be due to drilling my imagination and
creative visualization skills. This is just something I've speculated about in hindsight.
Have to give some credit where credit is due.
....
I have, more or less, reached the same conclusion. (y)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Loved the entire posting.

I feel that the meter can respond to imagination. There's an HCOB that at some point in
a person's ascendancy, the meter begins to respond to a person's postulates, that is,
willed thoughts or images. I think at clear. So be it.

That said, I've always thought that a person's imagination is the most powerful and
unlimited capability of the mind. Some having more imaginative skills than others
obviously. One's imagination in nearly infinitely endless (until one gets writer's block
again). Perhaps, the most wonderful near-magical capability a person has.

One could conclude that the whole subject of Scientology is one of drilling, improving
and working with the imagination. In fact, Hubbard's creative processing might have an
earlier antecedent in the 1890's in a therapy called guided imagination.

I could easily conclude that any gains I got through auditing -- and I did get what seemed. At the time some dramatic benefits -- could be due to drilling my imagination and
creative visualization skills. This is just something I've speculated about in hindsight.
Have to give some credit where credit is due.

But all those outcomes should have only taken a few months or years, not decades.

So true.

In my experience, the CREATIVE PROCESS exactly parallels, replicates and produces precisely the same END PHENOMENA as the end of any session of level.

Same!

VGIS. COGNITION. FLOATING NEEDLE. EUPHORIC "RELEASE"

They are identical with one exception. The Creative Process is a totally free and all you can eat. In the cult of Scientology, you pay ungodly fortunes, it's still all you can eat---but YOU are the entree.

.
 

Veda

Well-known member
So true.

In my experience, the CREATIVE PROCESS exactly parallels, replicates and produces precisely the same END PHENOMENA as the end of any session of level.

Same!

VGIS. COGNITION. FLOATING NEEDLE. EUPHORIC "RELEASE"

They are identical with one exception. The Creative Process is a totally free and all you can eat. In the cult of Scientology, you pay ungodly fortunes, it's still all you can eat---but YOU are the entree.

.

 

Caroline

clerk #2
So true.

In my experience, the CREATIVE PROCESS exactly parallels, replicates and produces precisely the same END PHENOMENA as the end of any session of level.

Same!

VGIS. COGNITION. FLOATING NEEDLE. EUPHORIC "RELEASE"

They are identical with one exception. The Creative Process is a totally free and all you can eat. In the cult of Scientology, you pay ungodly fortunes, it's still all you can eat---but YOU are the entree.
I think there's a danger of inducing or producing a sort of False Memory Syndrome. In fact I think Scientologists standardly suffer from this condition.

Here Hubbard directs auditors to get pcs (including children) to run imaginary incidents.

L. Ron Hubbard said:
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 16 JANUARY 1975

Remimeo
Dn & Ex Dn C/Ses
IV and VI C/Ses
Class VIII C/S


PAST LIFE REMEDIES
There are many remedies and considerable tech developed over the years on the subject of pcs unable to go earlier than this life. There was no full coverage bulletin which gave the full story on this.

The earliest was getting the pc to locate and run imaginary incidents. This is fully covered in Science of Survival, especially Book Two, Chapter Nine, “Imaginary Incidents”. The auditor clears the idea of imaginary incidents and running them, then persuades the pc to run them without forcing him.

Delusion tends to run off but the real incidents move into view as well. These imaginary incidents can be run R3R narrative or done as part of R3R procedure and running usual items and somatics. It can be incorporated into the AESPs run on the Past Life Remedy as part of the action of grooving in the pc.

One of the early Dianetic Remedies was simply “What Attitudes would make one unwilling to go Earlier than this life?” R3R Triple exhaust the list then do Emotions Sensations and Pains separately.

Where the pc is afraid of going earlier or seeing the pictures, AESPs that would make you not want to look at earlier lives can be listed separately and run. Often the pc won’t go backtrack because he’s a druggie.

What has happened here is that he restimulated past lives with drugs, got into frightening pictures that he didn’t understand and now backs off from ANY bank content except drugs. That is handled with a full Drug R/D, including a full battery of Objectives and all reading items run including “no interest” items. The standard approach on any pc is to get a full Drug R/D done first.

Another reason could be the pc is in recent shock of having died. Such a case is overburdened and is destimulated with general auditing and then gets a Past Life Remedy if he hasn’t gone backtrack. You could even do a Prior Assessment to this life. The subject of invalidation of past lives and people talking about them out of session or claiming to be famous people invalidates past lives for a pc and is actually related to suppression and PTS phenomena. If you suspect this you could ask “Has anyone been talking to you about past lives or famous people?” From this question possible suppression in the environment can be located and used in a PTS R/D, HCO B 9 Dec 71R, Revised 21 Oct 74.

CHILDREN

Children are usually very burdened cases and can be hard to C/S on Dianetics as it hits this life only which will leave the pc wide open to key-in and at the age of 20 be found all keyed in “with all grades run”.

I find they are jammed into fiction stories, education, books and movies and run these like Engrams. These children speak of “remembering” all the time. They say they can’t go backtrack “because they don’t remember”. They don’t seem to take it from pictures. Contrary to psychology theories and popular belief I find children in very rough case shape, nervous, frightened, griefy, etc. They get stuck in the books and movies they see.

I have handled this in various ways. The easiest way to unburden cases is by Objectives (contact processes) and Recall (ARC S/W, Self Analysis). That is a general approach. You can list for mental image pictures pc has seen in life in movies or books then get the AESPs of the best reading one and R3R triple or quad. Unwanted feelings, attitudes, emotions, sensations and pains as a child can also be listed and run to unburden the case.

A direct approach is to ask “What book or movie were you particularly interested in?” You’ll usually find that the person had a stuck picture on it. Then ask “Did you ever have anything to do with that sort of thing?” Then they go into it because you’re asking for an E/S. You could then run out the earlier incident R3R triple or quad and you’d be away.

Where the pc is stuck in upsetting incidents from movies or books you can list for “Bad incidents you’ve seen or read about”, take the best reading one and R3R its reading AESPs. Be sure to accept stories, TV, movies or books as these are fully valid to run.

REVIEW

A Scientology Review action that can be done is to assess Auditors Auditing Past Lives Dianetics Scientology Time Preclears and Erasure. Then prepcheck in order of reads, reassess and prepcheck. This is a valuable action to do before ARC S/W triple and often by itself will handle those unable to go past track.

A further Scientology approach would be to assess the Past, Memory Pictures, Past Lives and prepcheck in order of reads. Then L & N “Who or what would have no future?” then L & N “Who or what would it have been awful to have been?” These items can be checked and used in a PTS R/D or can have their intentions listed and run as part of Ex Dn handling.

SUMMARY

The technology on past lives is important for a C/S to know, especially the Dianetics C/S.

The subject usually resolves with a Drug R/D and general auditing but when it doesn’t you have these remedies to use.

Use them well.

L. RON HUBBARD
Founder
Technical Bulletins Volume 8 (1976 ed., pp. 388-389)

So we start out running imaginery incidents and gradiently get set up for OT 3.
 

cakemaker

Well-known member
If you're so impressed with the OT levels why haven't you done them?

One of the first things I did after resigning my membership in the organization, a long long time ago, was find a 'pc" and audit him from ARC S/W, to Dianetics, to Lower Grades, to Clearing, and onto the OT levels. I wanted to see what auditing others was like outside the organization, without all the red tape.

This has been covered elsewhere. You can look it up if you want to.

If you're so enamored with Scientology processing, then do it. Get an e-meter, and get some training, find a "pc" and audit.
I don't think I've read your experience auditing someone after you left. I'd love to read it.
Link? or under what could I search for it.
Thanks.
 

Caroline

clerk #2
I've got one too. It wasn't exactly after I left, and it wasn't exactly prior to getting in. And it wasn't exactly someone else. It was me.

I had been trying to route out of the SO (1983) and finally the MAA gave up on me and told me if I persisted with the routing form, I'd be declared anyway. So I just walked out.

I was pretty "enturbulated," sick, stressed, facing an SP declare, etc. I thought I might as well give myself a session. I knew the NOTs correction list by heart by that time. So I locked myself in my bathroom, set up the meter and started assessing the list. Sure enough, I had BTs with Out Int.

So I did a yeoman's job of it and got my session EP. Then I tore up the session worksheets into tiny little shreds and flushed them down the toilet. By the time I completed that, everyone was enturbulated again. End of story.

Not quite. Later, when I got "recovered" I had to get off my non standard solo-auditing overt. The charge on the Overt was a BTs though, so everything turned out okay.
 
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Helena Handbasket

Well-known member
Ah, yes, the infamous Antichrist bulletin. The first page of the original OT VIII course (not counting KSW).

What I want to know, does anyone have the rest of the original OT VIII course pack?

Helena
 

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
I've seen the recap summaries on the net. Folks just made a list of the steps they did and shared their info after leaving the C of S. I don't think any actual Course Pack is to be found though.
 
O

Out Ethics

Guest
Hey, I was not at the "Ron is so OT he killed himself!" event. However, we all shared that "CAMO" moment; and not because the cult leaders camouflaged the truth. . .

But, because to the only tech to rise above the cult is to "Cringe And Move On.

Not to be entirely negative, I have to admit that I did gain an exciting new ability in Scientology--total cause over acronyms!

.
“Cringe and move on! “. I love it!
 

Veda

Well-known member


"Advanced Course" Scientologists were briefly told about the sinister "Controllers" outside the "MEST" universe,
for which there was no remedy offered, and, as a result, became "PTS";
then that upsetting confidential HCOB disappeared.


I don't think I've read your experience auditing someone after you left. I'd love to read it.
Link? or under what could I search for it.
Thanks.
There's no single comprehensive description of that period, just an over all summation, and various scattered, more detailed, accounts which are part of other conversations. The conversations involved the "OT" levels, "exteriorization," the "state of Clear," various Scientology procedures, "off beat": or "squirrel" auditing such as handling the "ARC break" with one's "higher Self," etc., and auditing generally.

Posts like this recent one come up searching for terms like "listing," "help," but the terms are too general: Kicked The Cult In 2012. Still Decompressing And Finding MY Way. but I'll keep searching.
 
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freethinker

Controversial
Question from a non-OT. Where does the first idea about identities come on "the bridge"? In normal life I have never met someone who thinks they are Cleopatra or Napoleon or whatever, yet it is fairly common in scientology. I even had a family member who was convinced they had been Beethoven. It seems that identities becomes a more imortant subject the more you do. So it follows, to me, that Hubbard's views have something to do with that.
It seems to me that if you were the one you claimed to be in the past then you would have all their abilities. Someone who claimed to be Beethoven should be able to play one of his musical pieces.
 

Caroline

clerk #2
Question from a non-OT. Where does the first idea about identities come on "the bridge"? In normal life I have never met someone who thinks they are Cleopatra or Napoleon or whatever, yet it is fairly common in scientology. I even had a family member who was convinced they had been Beethoven. It seems that identities becomes a more imortant subject the more you do. So it follows, to me, that Hubbard's views have something to do with that.
According to Hubbard, identities relate to other terms including valences, parasitic circuits and demons.

NOTs Indoctrination material:

L. Ron Hubbard said:
IDENTITY: See English Dictionary and Tech Dictionary under “valence” and “beingness”. It is that by which a thetan identifies himself.

MISCONCEPTION: (See English Dictionary) and Axiom 38. The basic misconceptions are of identity, time, place, form and event; e.g. a misconception of place would be a thetan thinking something that happened in one place, happened in another place. A misconception of event would be a thetan thinking something happened to him, which didn’t happen to him or happened to someone else (Flow 2 or 3).

MISOWNERSHIP: A basic misconception of one thetan making the mistake of thinking another thetan’s picture or incident or mock-up is his own.

MISIDENTIFICATION: A basic misconception of one thetan thinking he is another thetan. It’s a mistake in identity. Thetan “A” thinks it is thetan “B”. Or one thetan thinks he is more than one thetan, etc.

HCOB September 26, 1978 NED for OTs Series 4 C O N F I D E N T I A L WORD CLEARING AND INFORMATION FOR PRE-OTs ON NED FOR OTs; Attachment #1
From the Tech Dictionary:
L. Ron Hubbard said:
BASIC PERSONALITY, 1 . a person’s own identity. (FOT, p. 31) 2. the basic personality, the file clerk, the core of “I” which wants to be in command of the organism, the most fundamental desires of the personality, may be considered synonymous for our purposes. (DMSMH, p. 394) 3 . the individual himself. (DMSMH, p. 394) Abbr. B.P. (BP).
Hubbard talked about these terms in Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health (1950):

L. Ron Hubbard said:
We have all seen somebody make a blunder and then give forth an explanation of just why that blunder had been made. This is justified thought. The blunder was made, unless out of education or viewpoint, by an engram. The analytical mind then had to justify the blunder to make sure that the body was right and that its computations were right.

Now there are two other conditions which can be caused by engrams. One is dramatization and the other is valence.
L. Ron Hubbard said:
A dianetic demon is a parasitic circuit. It has an action in the mind which approximates another entity than self. And it is derived entirely from words contained in engrams.
Book One Dianetics auditing is an introductory service on THE BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM SCIENTOLOGY CLASSIFICATION GRADATION AND AWARENESS CHART OF LEVELS AND CERTIFICATES and is a "route onto the Bridge."
 
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Veda

Well-known member
It seems to me that if you were the one you claimed to be in the past then you would have all their abilities. Someone who claimed to be Beethoven should be able to play one of his musical pieces.
Not if you think like a Scientologist and believe that virtually everything on Earth is a dramatization of R6 implants, including Beethoven's music.

Also, Beethoven would have had a different brain, different entities, different "BTs" etc.

Plus, per Scientology, a human is a composite that is so overwhelmed, and infested, with degraded beings ("BTs"), that one's identity is comprised of the identity of those degraded beings, and, without those degraded beings ("BTs") one has virtually no past, and no memory before this life time.

Funny how that works out. Hubbard gets to be Arp Kola who invented music; he gets to be all sorts of colorful "whole track" characters, but the poor Advanced Course Scientologists pay large amounts of money and have their minds laundered, rinsed, and re-rinsed, only to find out they ain't been nobody.

Worse, they're supposed to be delighted about it, and are.

And for good measure, after having spent years attached to an e-meter on a daily basis, they're solidly cemented into their bodies and have zero OT abilities.

And yet they write glowing "Success Stories."
 

pineapple

Well-known member
It seems to me that if you were the one you claimed to be in the past then you would have all their abilities. Someone who claimed to be Beethoven should be able to play one of his musical pieces.
Actually alot of musical ability is just training your body to make the necessary motions. This is why musicians spend hours practicing everyday. Someone who had a different body that had not been trained like this wouldn't be able to play.

(I'm not defending anyone's claim they were Beethoven in a previous life. I believe such a person is deluded. Just saying musical ability is largely the result of practice, i.e. training of the physical body. A different body wouldn't have musical ability acquired by an earlier body.)
 

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
\
According to Hubbard, identities relate to other terms including valences, parasitic circuits and demons.

NOTs Indoctrination material:

snipped
I later took the term, "identity" to include 'condition of beng' or the situation one found himself in. Like, 'full of fraught and peril' would be WHAT the being was or the situation he identified with. This worked for me on the main Power Process. The question being Tell Me an existing condition. I had it run as What Condition have you encountered. This was back in 87. It was the game valence or identity your current one was still solving.

NOTS often elicits this type answer from BTs in response to the identity query:

A man of steel
Forever waiting
The envy of the world.
Shafted
Your jealous in-laws
Dinosaur eggs

The idea of IDENTITY had morphed into the condition of being or state of existence one is completely identified with.

I guess I had imagined OT VIII to be running some tree of life, with self at top, creatively emanating theta and forgetting it in successive domains. Nope.
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In doing a Dynamic assessment, one asked for what would represent that dynamic. These are identity/ parts of that game, Including valences, persons, ideas or the inanimate...... and then HELP is run. Often you're naming 'allies,' so you blow things that are coincident in identity with you.
 
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D

Deleted member 51

Guest
Actually alot of musical ability is just training your body to make the necessary motions. This is why musicians spend hours practicing everyday. Someone who had a different body that had not been trained like this wouldn't be able to play.

(I'm not defending anyone's claim they were Beethoven in a previous life. I believe such a person is deluded. Just saying musical ability is largely the result of practice, i.e. training of the physical body. A different body wouldn't have musical ability acquired by an earlier body.)

It's an interesting concept, the whole "body memory" thing.

I guess if you believe in BTs and spirits and the Genetic Entity as separate, individual spirits, then any credit due for body memory causing terrific musical ability would have to go to the GE. :LOL: The thetan was just there for the ride and sucking the ability out of the GE.

But I don't believe in that separation or any complete separation quite like that. What fascinates me is the concept that DNA can have "on" and "off" survival characteristics. There is so much we have to learn there, but the concept that someone could have been threatened to play piano well or die, then died that way (turning off some DNA to turn on others like high heart rate, focus, fast hand motions, etc. to make that possible) and then give birth to children or great-grandchildren who had the same DNA turned on (natural ability) really gets my brain thinking. :hmm:
 
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