OT VIII "Confidential" Student Briefing

[Veda]

Yes, Truth Revealed was a sort of blanket description of what may be attained on the Level. It's a truth rather than the truth. Some people find it quite enlightening and some people are apparenty annoyed and disappointed to discover that they're not who they thought they were.

Tell us the truth that was revealed on OT VIII.

Do you have mental image pictures?

 

[Panda Termint]

I only got as far as OT 5. Did you do OT VIII aboard the Freewinds?

OT 5 also addresses identities the person thinks of as "self."

Yes and yes, I know NOTs also addresses this.
If you consider that, upon embarking on OTVIII, the person really believes and has attested to "no more PT (present time) BTs" then what is being addressed on OTVIII is the person's own misconceptions as to who he/she is. These are identities the person has encountered in auditing or life which he thinks of as himself. In life, for example, some people may read a book or see a movie and think to themselves, "That's me!" They can really believe and begin living out these misconceptions about self. Currently we see a perfect example of this in LRH V2.0.
An identification repeatedly encountered in auditing seems to stick even more thoroughly and becomes a sort of self-created "truth".
The saddest complaints about OTVIII that I've seen stem from people unwilling to let go of the misconception of some precious past identity. I understand that it can be disappointing for someone to discover that he/she is not really some stellar identity reborn or that "my reincarnated husband from 20,000 years ago" is not who she thought he was etc.
If there's a truth revealed on OTVIII it's Neti Neti.

Neti neti - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Through this gradual process [neti neti] he negates the mind and transcends all worldly experiences that are negated till nothing remains but the Self. He attains union with the Absolute by denying the body, name, form, intellect, senses and all limiting adjuncts and discovers what remains, the true "I" alone."

 

[Panda Termint]

Tell us the truth that was revealed on OT VIII.

Do you have mental image pictures?

See my response to Caroline above^^^
I can have them if I so desire. I don't really desire them.

 

[Type4_PTS]

<snip>
The saddest complaints about OTVIII that I've seen stem from people unwilling to let go of the misconception of some precious past identity. I understand that it can be disappointing for someone to discover that he/she is not really some stellar identity reborn or that "my reincarnated husband from 20,000 years ago" is not who she thought he was etc.
If there's a truth revealed on OTVIII it's Neti Neti.

Neti neti - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If this situation comes up while mid-OTVIII on the Freewinds, any idea as to how it is handled?

I get the impression from some things you wrote that for some it was not handled. How did they get off the ship? Did they withhold the fact that they were unhappy with OT VIII?

 

[Veda]

"I know with certainty where I was and who I was in the last 80 trillion years."

L. Ron Hubbard, from the book Mission into Time. Published 1973

 

[Panda Termint]

If this situation comes up while mid-OTVIII on the Freewinds, any idea as to how it is handled?

I get the impression from some things you wrote that for some it was not handled. How did they get off the ship? Did they withhold the fact that they were unhappy with OT VIII?

I'd guess that it was addressed in Qual, like most disagreements concerning Tech matters. The person was probably made to restudy the relevant issues and "corrected" until his reality was adjusted to conform, I imagine. I never heard anyone mention it when I was in scientology but I sure heard all about it once I joined the ex community. I'd guess that they kept their considerations to themselves whilst still-in.

 

[Panda Termint]

"I know with certainty where I was and who I was in the last 80 trillion years."

L. Ron Hubbard, from the book Mission into Time. Published 1973

Lol, if you believe that I heard there's a Bridge for sale!

 

[Veda]

Lol, if you believe that I heard there's a Bridge for sale!

I guess you don't see the irony of your praising OT VIII while laughing at Hubbard.

 

[Caroline]

Yes and yes, I know NOTs also addresses this.
If you consider that, upon embarking on OTVIII, the person really believes and has attested to "no more PT (present time) BTs" then what is being addressed on OTVIII is the person's own misconceptions as to who he/she is. These are identities the person has encountered in auditing or life which he thinks of as himself. In life, for example, some people may read a book or see a movie and think to themselves, "That's me!" They can really believe and begin living out these misconceptions about self. Currently we see a perfect example of this in LRH V2.0.
An identification repeatedly encountered in auditing seems to stick even more thoroughly and becomes a sort of self-created "truth".
The saddest complaints about OTVIII that I've seen stem from people unwilling to let go of the misconception of some precious past identity. I understand that it can be disappointing for someone to discover that he/she is not really some stellar identity reborn or that "my reincarnated husband from 20,000 years ago" is not who she thought he was etc.
If there's a truth revealed on OTVIII it's Neti Neti.

Neti neti - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Through this gradual process [neti neti] he negates the mind and transcends all worldly experiences that are negated till nothing remains but the Self. He attains union with the Absolute by denying the body, name, form, intellect, senses and all limiting adjuncts and discovers what remains, the true "I" alone."

OT 3s attest to no more BTs. Then comes OT 3X, OT 4, OT 5, OT 7...

I think Hubbard might object to having an OT VIII truth compared with Neti Neti. ("Earlier practice.") But he obviously didn't object to his self-promotions and jokes about being the Anti-christ, the Light Bringer, "Prince of Darkness" etc.

The OT VIII document reveals a relevant truth about the profound conflict between Scientology and Christian theology. I'm not a religious expert, but I'm glad that people like George Witek, Maria Pia Gardini, and other OT VIIIs like you have come forward with documents and/or testimony.

 

[Panda Termint]

Lol. Which part of scientology doesn't stem from some earlier practice?
Luckily for me, I have no concerns at all about what Hubbard might or might not object to.

 

[Panda Termint]

I guess you don't see the irony of your praising OT VIII while laughing at Hubbard.

Praising OTVIII? Where exactly did you see me doing that? I'm on record as stating that I wouldn't recommend anyone follow in my footsteps, there are easier (and safer) ways to get there. I'm simply stating the truth as I see it. As Alan Walter once told us, "The truth is what it is, not what you want it to be."

 

[freethinker]

Jeeez, Panda is just barely back and here he is defending himself for what he says. This is just what Scientology does, it divides people and draws lines and it never resolves unless someone leaves the discussion.

 

[Panda Termint]

Jeeez, Panda is just barely back and here he is defending himself for what he says. This is just what Scientology does, it divides people and draws lines and it never resolves unless someone leaves the discussion.

Well, instead of just dogpiling on with Veda's passive-aggressive tone maybe you'll point to where I supposedly "praised OTVIII". This is a discussion, viewpoints vary. Caroline would like the thread to return to the subject at hand; Hubbard's Luciferian WTF? Issue. I'm fine with that.

 

[freethinker]

Well, instead of just dogpiling on with Veda's passive-aggressive tone maybe you'll point to where I supposedly "praised OTVIII". This is a discussion, viewpoints vary. Caroline would like the thread to return to the subject at hand; Hubbard's Luciferian WTF? Issue. I'm fine with that.

I never said you did, and I don't think you did. I just pointed out what the tech does, just by discussing it.

 

[Hatshepsut]

I never understood the deal with 'pictures'. We all have memories. You can get that wheelie thingamajig out from Handbook for Preclears, and a 'file clerk' amazingly provides you any memories related to that topic. ....live streaming.....just keep em coming......these mental associations.

Facsimiles? Mental image pictures from some bank? Crikey, it's what the mind DOES. Mind is a kinda of a field or a shell in itself. It's a composite collection of problems and solutions having a relationship to some game condition or beingness. This planet may be regarded as owning a collevtive mind. The dynamics too?

I remember reading a bulletin in 78 where it dispelled the notion we carried caches of pictures. Rather they were recreated upon certain triggers.

My opinion of the shell BT thing.....
I had that malady for 6 years. It was what seemed a single being. It hadn't
ever been a homo sapiens. It's game was to swallow whole, like a python and 'squeeze'. It did emit electricity and shock me, however it was a person, not just his astral body. Not saying that situation doesn't ever exist. Trying to solo audit yourself while inside a shell BT is futile as you see everything through 'it' and not your own vwpt.

There's been as many 'contaged by contact' BTs in my lifetime
as awakened one's on case . LOL. I
guess I somehow became sticky like that 'glue' mentioned. Maybe we do have an underlying electrically charged base to our G.E..

In 1982 I had these same 7 entities freewheeling. Day and night, endlessly, one of them was running off it's engram to its point of death by the auditor who audited me. I had no upset with this auditor at the time. The images chronically flashed at me came with full somatics. Only 3 had track within a similar time period. Though empathetic, none felt exactly like "me". It's clear that once attached to my space, they found enough similarities to identify 'as me'.

There was common charge that united the 7 together, like mutual victims of a holocaust.

Through our blood, through sex, and through births, I think we pass a lot of hypnotic Beings. We're already within a grouping of cells that may identify as coming from someone senior. I suspect a lof of PTSness could be handled there. Its seldom C/Sed for on NOTs unless it's a blaring outness.

 

[Panda Termint]

I never said you did, and I don't think you did. I just pointed out what the tech does, just by discussing it.

Fair enough. That's always going to happen, IMO. As long as we remain polite with each other, I'm OK with that.

 

[Veda]

Praising OTVIII? Where exactly did you see me doing that? I'm on record as stating that I wouldn't recommend anyone follow in my footsteps, there are easier (and safer) ways to get there. I'm simply stating the truth as I see it. As Alan Walter once told us, "The truth is what it is, not what you want it to be."

I suspect they realize that OT VIII was a big disappointment (though cult brainwashing prevents anyone from saying it and perhaps even from clearly articulating it to themselves).

-snip-

Just so you know, not everyone thinks OT8 was a "big disappointment". I personally know 3 OT8s (all now ex-scientologists) who thought it was pretty damn good. None of them regret having done it.

It's subtle.

It's as though maybe half of those who've done OT 8 - which is such a thorough psychological molestation of one's most intimate being - would go mad, or at least experience profound psychological discomfort, if they were to find fault with the procedure.

 

[Hatshepsut]

It's subtle.

It's as though maybe half of those who've done OT 8 - which is such a thorough psychological molestation of one's most intimate being - would go mad, or at least experience profound psychological discomfort, if they were to find fault with the procedure.

Historically, the goal of OT 8 has been fraught with duress for some.

When one has come down through a chain of beingnesses he can get 'buttered all over the universe'. Trying to pull up your stakes and hit the exit can leave you feeling gnarly, rabid. Messiah or Madman?

Thelemic Mysticism – part 5: Mysticism in Practice – Crossing the Abyss & The Hermit

[ ← Part 4: Mysticism in Practice – The Lover ← ] PART 5: MYSTICISM IN PRACTICE – Crossing the Abyss & The Hermit The Ordeal: The Dark Night of the Soul – The Babe of the Abys…

iao131.com

At a certain point, the Mystic may realize that – despite all the joys and encouragements that Illumination has brought – she is still not completely united with her Beloved. In other words, a sense of distinction, separateness, or duality still remains. The opposition between self and not-self, between ego and non-ego, has not been completely transcended. Upon achieving this insight, the Mystic must re-engage with the Art of meditation with renewed vigor in order to know the Absolute so intimately and completely that there is no duality that can remain. This brings the Mystic to the final “crisis” of the Path: the ordeal of Crossing of the Abyss.

snipped

This Work is the Will of the individual, purified by the Mystic path of imbalance and egotism, invigorated by a reconnection to one’s deepest creative wellspring of power stemming from one’s own Godhead.

 

[Panda Termint]

It's subtle.

It's as though maybe half of those who've done OT 8 - which is such a thorough psychological molestation of one's most intimate being - would go mad, or at least experience profound psychological discomfort, if they were to find fault with the procedure.

Personally, I didn't experience any "psychological molestation" on OTVIII but it's not about me, no matter how much you try to bend the conversation in that direction. The weird fact is: about half of the OTVIIIs I know (and I know a few) did find that Level beneficial (in their own estimation). It's the same as that little survey we did of OTIIIs back in the day on ESMB; about half felt they made gains and the other half didn't. It might be like that Trump or Brexit thing. Different people think different things about many things. So what? Back to the subject of the thread, then?

 

[Hatshepsut]

In a message exchange I had with Trey Lotz last year, he said a lot of people actually felt they had gains on OT VIII. He's of the opinion though that the Fishman doc is some concoction.