Opening new independent org

Bill

Well-known member
You need to get a tech dictionary. If you've looked at the amended definition I believe it says One that no longer has their own reactive mind. If you've done any upper levels you might understand that definition. And then there's the Gremlins. For those of you That got on lines after 76 you missed the boat.
That is another thing I don't miss about talking with trained Scientologists: That condescending tone when talking to the "lesser beings". The idea that the trained person has all the answers and if only you were as trained, you would understand as well.

"Clear" has always been defined as "no longer has a Reactive Mind". That isn't new. The problem Hubbard had, and the church since he died, is that the full description in DMSMH of Clear (The chapter "Clear") has never been attained, by anyone -- and has never been cancelled. No amount of "upper levels" makes any difference. People who "attain Clear" don't have ANY of the amazing benefits promised in DMSMH.

Definitions don't change that. Early OT levels didn't change that. Later OT levels didn't change that. No amount of belief changes that.
 

Veda

Well-known member
-snip-

For those of you That got on lines after 76 you missed the boat.
76? Let's see, IIRC, prices started rising monthly. Hubbard fled from Florida, and began secretly residing in Washington DC, overseeing the restarting of the covert operation to have author Paulette Cooper imprisoned or institutionalized - renamed Op Freakout. The Jokers and Degraders Bulletin of February 1977 had not yet been issued; nor had the LSD Zombie Bulletin and its Sweat program. The Children's RPF began in 1976, but that couldn't be it. And Hubbard's cloak and dagger activities had not yet backfired on him.

Were you referring to the belief, held by some, that Hubbard was replaced with a doppelganger in early 1973?

Otherwise, what happened in '76?
 

ISNOINews

Independent Scientology and Nation of Islam news
The new Ron's Org in Cancun, Mexico now has a website:


Proyecto de Cancun inicio


* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * *.*

As part of the activities of the Ron's Org network of Max and Erica Hauri, Ron's Org in Buenos Aires has the project of establishing a group of Ron's Org in that city.

From October 1 to November 15, in the city of Cancun, Mexico, we will give basic courses, auditor and OTs, as well as auditing for all levels up to Clear.

For information contact whatsapp or telegram: +5491168136916 or email [email protected] .

[SNIP]

last update 2021-07-07

* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * *.*


Introductory Video:




/
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

Originally posted by Bob Hinson
You need to get a tech dictionary.
.
That is another thing I don't miss about talking with trained Scientologists: That condescending tone when talking to the "lesser beings". The idea that the trained person has all the answers and if only you were as trained, you would understand as well.
Next to "on this planet", I have mentioned often that one of the "TOP 10 SELF-REHABILITATING CLICHES" used by Scientologists to bolster their downwardl spiraling certainty is:

"YOU NEED TO (- fill in the blank - )!"

If the Scientologist/Indie is particularly perturbed with another's DB behavior, they would necessarily add an intensifier, resulting in: "You really need to (---)!"

I can recall many times a Scientologist said that to me decades after I had left the cult. Once I randomly bumped into a famous Flag OT (public) on the street. After saying hello they jumped right into "You really need to get back to Flag because (fantastic lie du jour)!"

Another time I was at a dinner party and saw some Scientologist I knew a couple decades earlier from meeting them at Flag. After dinner they approached me and asked when I was going back to Flag, soon followed thereafter by the following gem: "You really need to get back on the level because OT VII handles everything".

Everything.

I hate to be grim, but a year or two later I heard or read that this individual had died of cancer.

But, the level handles everything.

SUMMARY: The only thing worse than the lying of L. Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige, is the lying of FSMs/Regges. The only thing worse than the lying of FSMs/Regges is the lying that Scientologists do to themselves.

.
 
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Bill

Well-known member
You need to get a tech dictionary. If you've looked at the amended definition I believe it says One that no longer has their own reactive mind. If you've done any upper levels you might understand that definition. And then there's the Gremlins. For those of you That got on lines after 76 you missed the boat.
I do understand the problem that Scientology "tech trained" people have. Here you have spent so much effort, time, money to carefully understand the Scientology tech. The commands, the right way to give the commands, the e-meter, the reads, the C/Ses, on and on. I know. I was trained. The level of precision and amount of detail is daunting. It is a massive commitment -- but the reward was worth it!

Then you find out that you've mastered all this for a technology that, pretty much, doesn't really do anything. What it does accomplish, at best, is temporary and not very important. You have gone from the "top 1% of the top 1%" down to the level of someone who has mastered "phrenology" or "divination".

I understand. It is a very, very difficult reality to process.
 

Veda

Well-known member
-snip-

Then you find out that you've mastered all this for a technology that, pretty much, doesn't really do anything.

-snip-
There's a discipline - and even a kind beauty - of the (as originally defined) basic "technology" of auditing.

And argument can be made that the bare basics of it is worthy of preservation and further investigation.
 

Bill

Well-known member
There's a discipline - and even a kind beauty - of the (as originally defined) basic "technology" of auditing.

And argument can be made that the bare basics of it is worthy of preservation and further investigation.
Yeah... I'm sure the same could be said about divination or phrenology. They require quite a skill and, I'm sure, have their own kind of beauty. But spending years and years studying those is wasted time.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Yeah... I'm sure the same could be said about divination or phrenology. They require quite a skill and, I'm sure, have their own kind of beauty. But spending years and years studying those is wasted time.
I know people who tried traditional psychoanalysis, and regarded (Introductory) Scientology as far superior.

It's not as advertised, but there is something there.

Some progress was made in the subject of practical psychology.

This (progress) sticks some Independent Scientologists to the subject, not realizing ( or denying) that the subject was booby-trapped by its founder.
 

Bill

Well-known member
I know people who tried traditional psychoanalysis, and regarded (Introductory) Scientology as far superior.

It's not as advertised, but there is something there.

Some progress was made in the subject of practical psychology.

This (progress) sticks some Independent Scientologists to the subject, not realizing ( or denying) that the subject was booby-trapped by its founder.
To tell the truth, I loved the Pro TRs Course and gained some interesting skills. I'm not sure how useful those are in the real world.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
To tell the truth, I loved the Pro TRs Course and gained some interesting skills. I'm not sure how useful those are in the real world.
.
I also really liked the TRs, experiencing those in the first two days I first walked into a Scientology center and completed the COMMUNICATION COURSE.

It's a very worthwhile investment of a few hours if someone doesn't already know how to look at someone when speaking, speak clearly, let people know when you heard them, get questions answered and to diplomatically deal with conversational distractions.

Scientology then trains their TRs graduates to use those skills to defraud others.

I guess the "good parts" of Scientology are much like the development of nuclear power. It can be used for good or for great evil. Scientology was always, and remains, completely oblivious and indifferent to the difference.


.
 

Helena Handbasket

Active member
... "Clear" has always been defined as "no longer has a Reactive Mind". That isn't new. The problem Hubbard had, and the church since he died, is that the full description in DMSMH of Clear (The chapter "Clear") has never been attained, by anyone -- and has never been cancelled. No amount of "upper levels" makes any difference. People who "attain Clear" don't have ANY of the amazing benefits promised in DMSMH. ...
Hubbard has always oversold his methods, promising benefits that don't materialize. He did this to flood new people into the orgs and missions, making one excuse after another as to why it didn't work. (A favorite excuse of those asked to demonstrate OT powers is, "I don't do party tricks".)

A major reason why the tech doesn't work is pushback by the enemy -- I don't know what they call themselves, but I call them the SPRIG. Alterations of tech, planting double-crossers in high places in the C of S, and the killing off of anybody who does make it. And they flood the world with radio frequencies in the 430 MHz range, which blocks psychic abilities.

In DMSMH it is asserted that the reactive mind is the sole source of mental aberration. I beg to differ with that. A review of the tech reveals about 10 different sources of aberration, not the least of which is the service facsimile -- which by definition, is "generated by the preclear, not the bank" [reactive mind]. So not everything comes from the reactive mind.

I define the reactive mind as sort of a "mental flypaper" that engrams (engrams are thoughts) stick to. It is possible to eliminate the reactive mind, after which you can still have engrams, but they are not as "sticky" -- often they can be removed by inspection. I consider my reactive mind gone; but big, fat, hairy deal, I still have plenty of problems (one of which I'll be posting about in a few minutes).

Add to the above is the fact that Hubbard made it "all about himself". If I had my druthers, I would adopt a more ensemble approach -- recognizing that many people can and have made contributions to the tech, such as the Pilot. I even explored various non-processing approaches.

So I have not accomplished all I want to in the field of the mind. But I soldier on, anyway.

Helena
 

Bill

Well-known member
<snip>
A major reason why the tech doesn't work is pushback by the enemy -- I don't know what they call themselves, but I call them the SPRIG. Alterations of tech, planting double-crossers in high places in the C of S, and the killing off of anybody who does make it. And they flood the world with radio frequencies in the 430 MHz range, which blocks psychic abilities.
<snip>
Helena
:dizzy::hysterical: :duh:
 

mimsey borogrove

Well-known member
There are worthwhile parts of Scientology, but are generally overlooked by the rabid Hubbard derangement syndrome (HDS) sufferers. A really good course was the Key to Life for instance, however the follow up course wasn't. Hubbard was smart to promote the whole concept of study tech, (which he ripped off) but turned into into a micromanaging nightmare. This is an example of less is more. Looking up words demos or drawings, using it in sentences is a good idea but he took it to extremes.

Some of the lower level auditing worked well enough - but instead of leaving it as a light touch, he turned in into expanded grades with 3 or 4 flows and I think it lost it's workability.

As I learn about how to acquire a language, instead of learn it, a big part of it is not hammering it to death, because the brains ability to recall /assimilate declines as interest wanes. The mind needs new input to absorb. Hammering 15 flows of the 7th help process on an expanded grade is going to turn into drudgery.

Hubbard, though, tripping over his know best ego, put tooo much salt in the soup.

Mimsey
 

lotus

Pfizer DNA biotech frog
When will people come out if their fantasies and realize the pseodo OT levels are a dramatization of a paranoid deluded man who wrote sci fi and re market it as OT levels. Seriously, take a few hours, read history of man, and this is it.
Wake up... This life is the only 9ne you have and this ego mind of you will never survive your death. When you die, by our thoughts die. This is it.

The best you can make out of being mortal is to meditate, do tai chi, yoga, whatever you wish to grow acceptance and courage to face your end coming.

😏
 

The_Fixer

Well-known member
That is another thing I don't miss about talking with trained Scientologists: That condescending tone when talking to the "lesser beings". The idea that the trained person has all the answers and if only you were as trained, you would understand as well.

"Clear" has always been defined as "no longer has a Reactive Mind". That isn't new. The problem Hubbard had, and the church since he died, is that the full description in DMSMH of Clear (The chapter "Clear") has never been attained, by anyone -- and has never been cancelled. No amount of "upper levels" makes any difference. People who "attain Clear" don't have ANY of the amazing benefits promised in DMSMH.

Definitions don't change that. Early OT levels didn't change that. Later OT levels didn't change that. No amount of belief changes that.
The Church has a very Reactive Mind.

Just try saying or doing something they don't like and watch the reaction! :D
 

Veda

Well-known member
The one "win" that Scientology produces consistently and reliably is the wonderful and creative excuses and "reasons why" it never ever produces the promised gains.

"No OT abilities" has become a problem for Scientology, especially after seventy years. Scientology's way of "handling" this problem makes a list of excuses, beginning with:

"What? Did you say you don't have OT abilities?" Well, I do and other Scientologists do. There's something wrong with you."

"Scientology works! You need to re-do your Bridge. You falsely attested to everything."

How many of the OT 8 suicides have received that "handling" is anyone's guess.

Then there's the changing of the meaning of OT, from the definition Hubbard gave it at the entrance of Scientology. Which eventually became a revised meaning. This is a watered down meaning, just as the meaning for Clear was watered down.

Registrars do this. "Oh, you thought OT meant that?" Then the substitute meaning for OT is given.

And that could be almost anything including having the OT ability of purchasing a higher donor status.

With outside of Scientology Inc. (Independent ) Scientology, there was recently a discussion of the "handling," of the problem of no OT abilities, by the wife of the fellow who runs the Dror Center in Israel. The "handling" was to characterize OTs who might demonstrate their abilities (of which there appear to be none) as "clowns."

Another "handling" is to say that a certain number of people must become OT 8 (free Of Body Thetan case) and, then, all "New" OT 8s will, suddenly, become OTs with OT abilities. This is, essentially, the hundredth monkey idea, only, in this case, its requires some undetermined number of thousands, or even millions. This is complicated by no one actually having truly completed NOTs, since, per Hubbard's account, the universe, and particularly Earth, is crawling with BTs, clusters, fleas, targs, and other similar icky stuff.

Underlying all of this is the reason for doing Scientology, which is to have done Scientology. And, in the present tense, to be doing Scientology.

Exemplifying this is this book's title:


Perhaps the reason most contemporary Scientologists are happy never attaining Hubbard's very tangible definition of OT is that they know that Scientology "Bridge" is about significance.

While the Organization focuses on making money, collecting blackmail, and asserting and maintaining dominion over thoughts and loyalties, the mass of Scientologists are content to dwell in a bubble of Scientological significance: literally, it gives their lives meaning.

Not unlike this fellow who became a Space Ranger while watching Captain Video on his TV in Brooklyn in the 1950s. He worked in the sewer during the day but, to some extent, he was Space Ranger there too. And it made life tolerable.



This is not to say that everything upon which Scientology has stamped its name is automatically nonsense. That's what Scientology would like us to say, so it can produce one thing that isn't nonsense.

We're more sophisticated than that. :cool:

But the parts of Scientology that are not nonsense are not sufficient to motivate someone to hand over his mind to be washed, rinsed, and washed again.

The trade off was that one would submit temporarily in exchange for OT.

In his 1972 book, Naked Scientology, beat author William Burroughs attempted to explain why he endured Scientology's control and invasions of privacy for as long as he did:

"Like an anthropologist who has, after unspeakable indignities, penetrated a savage tribe, I was determined to hang on to get the big medicine."

Turns out the big medicine wasn't there. Scientology had no actual, tangible, state of OT to sell.

But it has plenty of significance and, apparently, that was enough to make some people happy.

*​

As for Freewheeling in the OT 3 sense, there's no indication that Hubbard "free wheeled."

During early 1967, in Las Palmas, he moped in bed for three weeks, surrounded by bottles of drugs.

Virginia Downsborough fed him soup, and he talked about how he was never married to Sara, (erased) wife number two.

Old timer, Alan Water, had to do "repair auditing" on what Virginia had experienced. She was crushed by what she had witnessed.

Russell Miller's Barefaced Messiah, features, in chapter 16, the account.

The excuse for Hubbard's early 1967 emotional breakdown (after the humiliation of Rhodesia) was that he "took the plunge" into "The wall of Fire."

The excuses never stop.
 

Ed8

Active member
I do understand the problem that Scientology "tech trained" people have. Here you have spent so much effort, time, money to carefully understand the Scientology tech. The commands, the right way to give the commands, the e-meter, the reads, the C/Ses, on and on. I know. I was trained. The level of precision and amount of detail is daunting. It is a massive commitment -- but the reward was worth it!

Then you find out that you've mastered all this for a technology that, pretty much, doesn't really do anything. What it does accomplish, at best, is temporary and not very important. You have gone from the "top 1% of the top 1%" down to the level of someone who has mastered "phrenology" or "divination".

I understand. It is a very, very difficult reality to process.
Hee hee, I am actually an excellent diviner. It's a skill that requires both knowledge and control of your own mind. Divination must be done with no a priori expectations, and a mind completely empty of thoughts. That latter requires experience at basic meditation.
 
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