Not Gay Scientology

La La Lou Lou

Well-known member
I'm with you. Regarding male homosexuality there's a possibility that one cause, if not THE cause, could be a congenital birth defect.

The video is cued up and watch it until 20:00.


Simon LeVay is the researcher and is gay, himself.

Here's some more to about 32:19 - it's already cued up from the start point.


As far as gay being "case" that is exactly what Scientology would view it as. I don't know of any or if anyone has had that addressed and/or changed or altered their orientation as a result.
Looking at a society rather than individuals. It takes all sorts to make a society, we can't all be Alphas. It could just be that some people are gay. All Species have gayness. It cold be an evolutionary thing. Spare males not that interested in fathering with Alpha females, and fighting to be Alpha males have a role to play in society.
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Well-known member
You can google "Michael Pattinson scientology" and click to heart's content.

On the Surviving Scientology Facebook page (only if you've got a strong stomach and a Facebook account to log into):

Rex Fowler Story
In 1975 Micheal Pattinson had already been a Scientologist for several years, in Europe, where he had already run into some of the seamy aspects of this group. Yet he expected that once he got to Clearwater, Florida, the “Mecca” of auditing perfection that it would all be worthwhile. It was always the “next course” that promised the substantial gains. He felt, like so many others, that if he could just tough things out the rewards would be huge, huge and eternal. But what did he find in this Promised Land of Scientology? He found the land of Hubbard a confused mass of adolescent totalitarianism that resembled a grade “B” movie about George Orwell’s book, “1984.” Here are some selections of Pattinson’s statement about his time in Scientology, It is well worth the time to read it.
Oh, and by the way, if you are gay don’t go to Scientology. You would be better off putting all of your money in the gutter and lighting a match to it. It won’t help you and Scientology is as much against being gay as extreme Baptist churches are.
I was appalled at the brutality of existence as a “Sea Org member” at Flag. I saw a heck of a lot, knew most of the senior people personally, observed the “bustings”, the tirades of psychotic hate, the heartless smashing of devoted staff members into subjugated silent robots when Ron sent them to the hotel basement purgatory called the “R.P.F”., the forced submission of kind but un-flawless people, the hideously dirty and crowded berthing, the punishments of rice-and-beans diet for lowered production stats,…and Flag was NOT what it was advertised to be, either “The Friendliest Place in the Whole World” (excuse me while I run to throw up), or “The Mecca of Technical Perfection” (I saw virtually NOTHING “perfect” at Flag) at about $800 an hour for Flag auditing. The glossy facade hides a roaches nest of false promises, hidden costs, imperfect delivery, hidden distress, poverty of staff, public with vast upsets and broken dreams.
. . . One of the most shocking but frequent occurrences was a staff member suddenly being marched off by gestapo-like uniformed people and taken to the basement where they were forced to live in squalor and humiliation. They were not allowed to speak to any one who was not in the “Rehabilitation Project Force” (RPF), had to wear dark blue overalls, run EVERYWHERE, clean the grounds of the hotel for most of their day, and study 5 hrs a day too.
Being gay was not ever my choice or intention but it is not something that Scientology will ever “handle” however much one spends (I spent close to a half million dollars in Scientology, and I still want my money back!). Scientology considers being gay as an “aberration” that needs to be erased. However, they don’t erase it and are in actual practice anti-gay (as I and others got sent to “ethics” correction for such behavior). They did, however, accept hundreds of thousands of “Gay dollars” from me in full for a service they never delivered in full.Being gay may be something we don’t understand yet but it exists in millions of people and, even when humans who misapply their own religious beliefs and spit hate out at gays, God loves me just the way I am.

To read the rest of Micheal Pattison’s story go here: http://exscn.net/content/view/75/101/
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Looking at a society rather than individuals. It takes all sorts to make a society, we can't all be Alphas. It could just be that some people are gay. All Species have gayness. It cold be an evolutionary thing. Spare males not that interested in fathering with Alpha females, and fighting to be Alpha males have a role to play in society.
Perhaps.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
In 1975 Micheal Pattinson had already been a Scientologist for several years, in Europe, where he had already run into some of the seamy aspects of this group. Yet he expected that once he got to Clearwater, Florida, the “Mecca” of auditing perfection that it would all be worthwhile. It was always the “next course” that promised the substantial gains. He felt, like so many others, that if he could just tough things out the rewards would be huge, huge and eternal. But what did he find in this Promised Land of Scientology? He found the land of Hubbard a confused mass of adolescent totalitarianism that resembled a grade “B” movie about George Orwell’s book, “1984.” Here are some selections of Pattinson’s statement about his time in Scientology, It is well worth the time to read it.
Oh, and by the way, if you are gay don’t go to Scientology. You would be better off putting all of your money in the gutter and lighting a match to it. It won’t help you and Scientology is as much against being gay as extreme Baptist churches are.
I was appalled at the brutality of existence as a “Sea Org member” at Flag. I saw a heck of a lot, knew most of the senior people personally, observed the “bustings”, the tirades of psychotic hate, the heartless smashing of devoted staff members into subjugated silent robots when Ron sent them to the hotel basement purgatory called the “R.P.F”., the forced submission of kind but un-flawless people, the hideously dirty and crowded berthing, the punishments of rice-and-beans diet for lowered production stats,…and Flag was NOT what it was advertised to be, either “The Friendliest Place in the Whole World” (excuse me while I run to throw up), or “The Mecca of Technical Perfection” (I saw virtually NOTHING “perfect” at Flag) at about $800 an hour for Flag auditing. The glossy facade hides a roaches nest of false promises, hidden costs, imperfect delivery, hidden distress, poverty of staff, public with vast upsets and broken dreams.
. . . One of the most shocking but frequent occurrences was a staff member suddenly being marched off by gestapo-like uniformed people and taken to the basement where they were forced to live in squalor and humiliation. They were not allowed to speak to any one who was not in the “Rehabilitation Project Force” (RPF), had to wear dark blue overalls, run EVERYWHERE, clean the grounds of the hotel for most of their day, and study 5 hrs a day too.
Being gay was not ever my choice or intention but it is not something that Scientology will ever “handle” however much one spends (I spent close to a half million dollars in Scientology, and I still want my money back!). Scientology considers being gay as an “aberration” that needs to be erased. However, they don’t erase it and are in actual practice anti-gay (as I and others got sent to “ethics” correction for such behavior). They did, however, accept hundreds of thousands of “Gay dollars” from me in full for a service they never delivered in full.Being gay may be something we don’t understand yet but it exists in millions of people and, even when humans who misapply their own religious beliefs and spit hate out at gays, God loves me just the way I am.

To read the rest of Micheal Pattison’s story go here: http://exscn.net/content/view/75/101/
I would say this would be the expected and usual experience for anyone gay.
 

Lee #28

Well-known member
There was a guy I saw at AOLA several times....back in the late 80's early 90's.

I never talked to him....but thought he might be on OTV....

He was always dressed in light or white pants....and pastel colored shirts. He carried a "man purse."

I figured he was gay.... Felt kinda sorry for him....
 
D

Deleted member 51

Guest
I write this because I have seen what the cult does to try to take the gay out of a person.

Any ex C/S'es here or auditors here with stories?
How about from a former Dir I&R/ MAA of AOLA?

In the 80s, those that were gay were given an R-factor by the C/S that they could not engage in homosexual activities while getting auditing because it was low-toned. They were sent to me or the Public MAA if they violated that.

They were supposed to be given a stern warning or worse.

I never had the heart but tried to be firm. The C/S wasn’t thrilled to send them to me, either, but rules were rules.

In every case, in the interview I found it wasn’t just homosexuality but promiscuity. Promiscuity was a concrete issue with a lot of terrible repercussions, so I focused on that.

In the interviews I learned that the few I saw had been promised that auditing would cure them of homosexual tendencies and they wanted to be sexually normal. In my heart I knew that wouldn’t happen, so I barely talked about that with them. Just the promiscuity. At that time the homosexual social life meant many, many partners. I’ve heard it still does for most.

I only knew one trans who was a COS pre-OT. He had become female and was off auditing apparently forever but no one was allowed to tell her who had recently been him the bad news. We were told to make excuses.

I reached her by mistake doing call-in of prepaid services, no idea of the situation until I spoke to her. She wanted to know why her TA still read as male after the sex change. She was anxious and depressed. I was told by the C/O to call her back, reassure her and tell her to take some time off auditing to recover and I did.

She was very depressed about everything and I thought it was incredibly heartless that they wouldn’t try to help her - with all that money on account, too. She sounded like she regretted the surgery.
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
Does anyone here have any anecdotal stories about how franchise missions were a bit more permissive about homosexual/bisexual staff or public? Just curious.
 

La La Lou Lou

Well-known member
The western model is to look at individuals, starting with Freud trying to work out why every male wasn't trying to be an Alpha. I just think it's the wrong approach. Society is evolving continuously in humans.

For a long time we had an ape type society where there was a strong aggressive, rather nasty head who had many lady apes, then there were the more snivelling Beta males who would constantly try to be the head and take the women folk over. Then there were the Deltas, the ones who didn't want to become Alphas, and some of them were happy to have sex with other Delta males, and some wanted females, and some just were not interested. They all had a role to play in the group or they became outlaws. Outlaws would follow the troop around, let them know if danger was around, maybe have a sneaky quickie when no one was looking even with an Alpha female, and then hide for a bit. In evolutionary terms they all had their place, even the outlaw who kept the genepool fresh, and who warned of danger.

Most humans used to live in a more natural way, then at some point someone decided that every man had a woman waiting for them, their other half, and that the perfect man was waiting for every woman. This simply doesn't work for everyone. It isn't the only way that people live, it is not universal.

Humans have their Alphas, gang leader types, nasty bastards who have an urge to own many women, who treat everyone else with contempt. Alphas tend towards dictatorship, they don't have empathy and they think that anyone else thinking differently from them should be thrown off the cliff edge. Hubbard was such a man.

Homosexuals exist in most animals, they are not going to stop being who they are, and understanding that they are as natural as everyone else, and have a role to play in the wider society is the key to understanding humankind as a whole.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
The western model is to look at individuals, starting with Freud trying to work out why every male wasn't trying to be an Alpha. I just think it's the wrong approach. Society is evolving continuously in humans.

For a long time we had an ape type society where there was a strong aggressive, rather nasty head who had many lady apes, then there were the more snivelling Beta males who would constantly try to be the head and take the women folk over. Then there were the Deltas, the ones who didn't want to become Alphas, and some of them were happy to have sex with other Delta males, and some wanted females, and some just were not interested. They all had a role to play in the group or they became outlaws. Outlaws would follow the troop around, let them know if danger was around, maybe have a sneaky quickie when no one was looking even with an Alpha female, and then hide for a bit. In evolutionary terms they all had their place, even the outlaw who kept the genepool fresh, and who warned of danger.

Most humans used to live in a more natural way, then at some point someone decided that every man had a woman waiting for them, their other half, and that the perfect man was waiting for every woman. This simply doesn't work for everyone. It isn't the only way that people live, it is not universal.

Humans have their Alphas, gang leader types, nasty bastards who have an urge to own many women, who treat everyone else with contempt. Alphas tend towards dictatorship, they don't have empathy and they think that anyone else thinking differently from them should be thrown off the cliff edge. Hubbard was such a man.

Homosexuals exist in most animals, they are not going to stop being who they are, and understanding that they are as natural as everyone else, and have a role to play in the wider society is the key to understanding humankind as a whole.
All conjecture and quite cynical.
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
How about from a former Dir I&R/ MAA of AOLA?

In the 80s, those that were gay were given an R-factor by the C/S that they could not engage in homosexual activities while getting auditing because it was low-toned. They were sent to me or the Public MAA if they violated that.

They were supposed to be given a stern warning or worse.

I never had the heart but tried to be firm. The C/S wasn’t thrilled to send them to me, either, but rules were rules.

In every case, in the interview I found it wasn’t just homosexuality but promiscuity. Promiscuity was a concrete issue with a lot of terrible repercussions, so I focused on that.

In the interviews I learned that the few I saw had been promised that auditing would cure them of homosexual tendencies and they wanted to be sexually normal. In my heart I knew that wouldn’t happen, so I barely talked about that with them. Just the promiscuity. At that time the homosexual social life meant many, many partners. I’ve heard it still does for most.

I only knew one trans who was a COS pre-OT. He had become female and was off auditing apparently forever but no one was allowed to tell her who had recently been him the bad news. We were told to make excuses.

I reached her by mistake doing call-in of prepaid services, no idea of the situation until I spoke to her. She wanted to know why her TA still read as male after the sex change. She was anxious and depressed. I was told by the C/O to call her back, reassure her and tell her to take some time off auditing to recover and I did.

She was very depressed about everything and I thought it was incredibly heartless that they wouldn’t try to help her - with all that money on account, too. She sounded like she regretted the surgery.
...and any MAA's /EO's / I & R type folks????? Sorry I left that out!!

Hey @JustSheila , exactly what I'm talking about. Sounds like the cult's practice of apparently making a person into someone "ethical" rather than having the tek accomplish something that it doesn't.

Not surprisingly the registrar promising that auditing would cure them of their homosexual tendencies, I imagine that is still happening now across the planet, amongst some other empty promises.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
Most humans used to live in a more natural way, then at some point someone decided that every man had a woman waiting for them, their other half, and that the perfect man was waiting for every woman. This simply doesn't work for everyone.
I can agree with that part, homosexuals not being the only people who don't fit that model.
 

La La Lou Lou

Well-known member
...and any MAA's /EO's / I & R type folks????? Sorry I left that out!!

Hey @JustSheila , exactly what I'm talking about. Sounds like the cult's practice of apparently making a person into someone "ethical" rather than having the tek accomplish something that it doesn't.

Not surprisingly the registrar promising that auditing would cure them of their homosexual tendencies, I imagine that is still happening now across the planet, amongst some other empty promises.
In reg training I was always told not to promise anything, only to sort of hint it.
 
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