Not Gay Scientology

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
Who is the "we" who administered this "survey"?
It is not a survey factually. It is my almost thirty years in, knowing what is going on with pc's and students that come on board the cult train and hit the buzzsaw of "find anything about this person that is his/her ruin, and reg the holy shit out of it."

Find any reason to get the guy C/S'ed for more hours. Perfectly manufactured for this situation is the "gay thing."

The "gay thing" as my gay scientologist friend calls it is acknowledging the fact that you may get clear, but there is no way you are getting onto the OT levels if you are doing anything other than the cisgendered existence.

There are rundowns that I don't hear people talking of anywhere, such as the LX lists. Once you are clear, watch out!! You will be told to do tons of auditing in order to handle the "gay thing."

Who here knows an openly avowed gay scientologist that was accepted onto the OT levels? I don't.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
It is not a survey factually. It is my almost thirty years in, knowing what is going on with pc's and students that come on board the cult train and hit the buzzsaw of "find anything about this person that is his/her ruin, and reg the holy shit out of it."

Find any reason to get the guy C/S'ed for more hours. Perfectly manufactured for this situation is the "gay thing."

The "gay thing" as my gay scientologist friend calls it is acknowledging the fact that you may get clear, but there is no way you are getting onto the OT levels if you are doing anything other than the cisgendered existence.

There are rundowns that I don't hear people talking of anywhere, such as the LX lists. Once you are clear, watch out!! You will be told to do tons of auditing in order to handle the "gay thing."

Who here knows an openly avowed gay scientologist that was accepted onto the OT levels? I don't.
Like I said...I find it hard to believe that an openly gay person would be allowed to attest to Clear.

OT levels? Fegetiboutit!
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
Factually, having something to handle that is not in the strictest of adhering to the writings of ellaraich, such as gayness or another such form of "out ethics," puts a sort of huge "it's ok the reg the fuck out of this guy" caste of "he's doing it to himself" tag on one. He is pulled it in, it's ok to make him pay as much as we think until we let him go.

Sec checking, FPRD, etc., etc. is in and of itself a sort of fair gaming with a lower case F. Being gay is addressed that way to people trying to get up the bridge, and boy do they pay for it.
 

Harold#1

A VERY STABLE SUPER GENIUS!!
Factually, having something to handle that is not in the strictest of adhering to the writings of ellaraich, such as gayness or another such form of "out ethics," puts a sort of huge "it's ok the reg the fuck out of this guy" caste of "he's doing it to himself" tag on one. He is pulled it in, it's ok to make him pay as much as we think until we let him go.

Sec checking, FPRD, etc., etc. is in and of itself a sort of fair gaming with a lower case F. Being gay is addressed that way to people trying to get up the bridge, and boy do they pay for it.
That's apparently what they did to Michael Pattison. He tried to get some of his money back after he paid Scientology to ungay him and go through OT8:

Travolta dragged into bizarre gay lawsuit
Scientology claimed it could make me straight too, charges homosexual

Star/August 18, 1998
By Martin Gould


John Travolta has been dragged into a court battle between a gay artist and the powerful Church of Scientology.

Michael Pattison says he turned to the sect to "cure" his homosexuality after it used 44-year-old Face/Off star Travolta to illustrate how the church could turn gay people straight.

Now Pattison is suing the church and 22 of its members for fraud, claiming he spent 25 years and half a million dollars trying to deal with his own homosexuality-but is still gay.

His lawyer, Graham Berry, tells STAR: "Michael was in a Scientology center in Clearwater, Florida., with Travolta and they used him as an example of someone who could be cured of what they referred to as his 'ruin.'"

"However, after 25 years and $500,000 Michael is still gay."

In a massive 166-page complaint filed in federal court in Los Angeles, Pattison, 49, is seeking millions of dollars in damages from the church, whose members also include Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, Kirstie Alley and Priscilla Presley.

Pattison, a Beverly Hills artist, claims in court papers that he was seduced into joining the church in the early 1970s-around the same time Travolta became a member- because it promised a cure.

He became more convinced of the church's supposed powers when Travolta married his pregnant bride Kelly Preston in 1991. The marriage came after a male porn star had given graphic details of an alleged two-year gay affair with Travolta.

At the time Travolta was romancing co-stars Olivia Newton-John from Grease, Marilu Henner from the Broadway production of the same musical and Debra Winger from Urban Cowboy, the porn actor said, adding that the affair had finished before Travolta started dating Preston.

"That contributed to my continuing belief in the misrepresentations that Scientology processing and courses would 'handle' my own homosexuality," says Pattison in his suit.

Travolta is a staunch defender of Scientology, saying it is a viable religion. "But it is only 50 years old. I'm sure Christianity had some problems too in its first 50 years," he says.

 

La La Lou Lou

Well-known member
Scienlogtoy recruitment is done by finding a ruin, the thing that people find is ruining their life and making them believe that the cult will cure the problem. A ruin is often not what you'd guess, someone with no legs may consider his lack of girl friends as his ruin, a very camp man wearing pink silk dungarees and orange high heels may well think that the thing that's ruining his life is that he gets frightened on a plane. Hubbard wanted orgs to be near areas full of sex shops, prostitutes etc where people have big ruins making it easier to reg, not in posh well adjusted areas full of successful people. Miss Carriage and Tom Cruising have other ideas.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
I write this because I have seen what the cult does to try to take the gay out of a person.

Any ex C/S'es here or auditors here with stories?
From an ethics side of things? Being gay was out-2D, plain and simple.

I'm not gonna go and give names or share anecdotes (I doubt people would want me of all people to talk about these kinds of personal issues, regardless if they are in or out now). But keep in mind, I did specialize in financial and out-2d "crimes". So I did encounter my share of homosexual "accountable units", regardless if the main angle I was investigation was sex or not.

And that's where confirmation bias comes in: If you have someone who was falsifying stats or lying on the e-meter or stealing and then you find out they are also gay, you inevitably reach the hubbardian cognition of: "Well, of course that's why!"
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
The curious LGBTQ+ is brought in by a friend, is introduced through wise, etc. They do some services and do find some good in it, as we all did.
They look around and see people doing some pretty seriously dedicated things being done, like working tons of hours for peanuts. Then as they advance, the are dosed with some of the rhetoric, they attend events and are told falsehoods about the good that is done by the group across the planet. A purification is done, maybe some metered auditing as a life repair, and the facts of this person's life come out. If they are far enough along in having their mind changed into the mind of a scientologist, meaning that being certain that ALL of life's problem can be solved by scientology, then it is suggested to them that "who knows" what will happen in the course of auditing. Then, like anyone else, they are convinced that "something can be done about it" and fully join in.

At that point, the only way onto the OT levels is to deny that they are ok the way that they are. They will then pay dearly.

It really is the story of anyone that enters in and the peril of doing that. In this case, being themselves is used against them, because the lie in scientology is that they are welcome, they aren't actually welcome to be gay in scientology.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
The thing is is that Dianetics and Science of Survival - possibly Modern Thesis and such - are intro books. Many, if not most, of the people who get into Scientology come from these books.

These books are straightforward and upfront that being gay is aberration, reactivity and will be handled by going Clear. These books are upfront about homosexuality being down toned and will be eliminated as such by unburdening the Theta/MEST ratio and bringing the PC up the tone scale.

The only people that won't be aware of or know of this are those who get on through other channels...such as you mentioned WISE.

I think this would be addressed to anyone pretty early in the game if they had questions regarding doing homosexuality. These references would be pointed out to them as something to handle in the reg cycles. Like you said, FPRD.

I've actually seen some pretty amazing things in Scientology in my time in. I wonder if anyone's gay case has been handled?
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
The thing is is that Dianetics and Science of Survival - possibly Modern Thesis and such - are intro books. Many, if not most, of the people who get into Scientology come from these books.

These books are straightforward and upfront that being gay is aberration, reactivity and will be handled by going Clear. These books are upfront about homosexuality being down toned and will be eliminated as such by unburdening the Theta/MEST ratio and bringing the PC up the tone scale.

The only people that won't be aware of or know of this are those who get on through other channels...such as you mentioned WISE.

I think this would be addressed to anyone pretty early in the game if they had questions regarding doing homosexuality. These references would be pointed out to them as something to handle in the reg cycles. Like you said, FPRD.

I've actually seen some pretty amazing things in Scientology in my time in. I wonder if anyone's gay case has been handled?
I was in almost thirty years and did not read dianetics until my year in the cult number seventeen. I came in via wise. I had friends that had come in via dianetics, but the dianetics route was not the major route in as it once was.

You talk as if "case" can be "handled" and that the "gay thing" is "case."

My point has not been that being gay is an aberration and that scientology successfully handles aberration. My point is that there is a lie that scientology accepts being gay, but the truth is that being gay in scientology is not ok. Maybe you are helping me in making my point.
 

La La Lou Lou

Well-known member
I was in almost thirty years and did not read dianetics until my year in the cult number seventeen. I came in via wise. I had friends that had come in via dianetics, but the dianetics route was not the major route in as it once was.

You talk as if "case" can be "handled" and that the "gay thing" is "case."

My point has not been that being gay is an aberration and that scientology successfully handles aberration. My point is that there is a lie that scientology accepts being gay, but the truth is that being gay in scientology is not ok. Maybe you are helping me in making my point.
I have never understood Hubbard's problem with sexuality, let alone homosexuality.

Was he forgetting that 'Thetans' don't have sexuality, psychiatrists invented sexuality in all it's forms and forced thetans to be sexually attracted to bodies through implant centres? A female body is a 'perfect theta trap'.

That means that he and Mary Sue having sex in missionary position in a locked room were just as perverted as any room filled with same sex strangers humping away for hours high on crystal meth.

Hubbard had problems with sexuality in all its forms. He had problems with pregnant mothers masturbating, and found a new way to make those mothers feel even worse about themselves than they did before. He had problems with psychiatrists implanting thetans to want sex, psychiatrists made him want sex, it wasn't his fault, they made him do it. He said that sex was just a third rate sensation, much overrated. He had problems with himself masturbating. He was taught to masturbate, it wasn't his fault. He had problems with sex. He had magick sex with what's his name, Jack something. I bet that wasn't his fault either.

Sex was just something he was victimised into. 'They' made him want to have sex, and he was powerless to fight it.

Just like most men Hubbard was the victim of his trousers and blamed everyone else, and was phobic about Homosexual men.

If I was his C/S I would have had him on hours and hours of auditing on his sexual and homosexual overts.
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
I have never understood Hubbard's problem with sexuality, let alone homosexuality.

Was he forgetting that 'Thetans' don't have sexuality, psychiatrists invented sexuality in all it's forms and forced thetans to be sexually attracted to bodies through implant centres? A female body is a 'perfect theta trap'.

That means that he and Mary Sue having sex in missionary position in a locked room were just as perverted as any room filled with same sex strangers humping away for hours high on crystal meth.

Hubbard had problems with sexuality in all its forms. He had problems with pregnant mothers masturbating, and found a new way to make those mothers feel even worse about themselves than they did before. He had problems with psychiatrists implanting thetans to want sex, psychiatrists made him want sex, it wasn't his fault, they made him do it. He said that sex was just a third rate sensation, much overrated. He had problems with himself masturbating. He was taught to masturbate, it wasn't his fault. He had problems with sex. He had magick sex with what's his name, Jack something. I bet that wasn't his fault either.

Sex was just something he was victimised into. 'They' made him want to have sex, and he was powerless to fight it.

Just like most men Hubbard was the victim of his trousers and blamed everyone else, and was phobic about Homosexual men.

If I was his C/S I would have had him on hours and hours of auditing on his sexual and homosexual overts.
I really hope that I am not phobic about gay men or women. I am writing this because I saw it done, and I thought it was wrong then and definitely think it's wrong now.

I also have great friends that are gay and in scientology. They are so in that any effort made by me to help them see the light is met with them trying to recover me.

I may not be able to save them, but maybe I can save someone else.

I don't know why hubs thought what he did when he wrote the earlier materials, which pointed out so much about sexual practice was usually bad.

Later in scientology, I get the idea that he had an inclination to "pile on" as it were, to mostly normal activities and label them as needing correction. Masturbation is a good example. Here we have something that most everybody does. In scientology masturbation is bad, and undoubtedly the time spent in session "cleaning up" one of all their masturbation badness costs parishioners quite a bit of money. Masturbation is a great income source, and probably certain mental effects come in when having your "overts" run on such a benign thing. I doubt that it is healthy.

Another example to me is getting sick. It happens. It happens to almost everyone. In scientology, it's a great opportunity to really tattoo the PTS/SP data into a person. So you get a cold, but that is turned into a primer on, wait for it, THE ANTI-SOCIAL PERSON, THE ANTI-SCIENTOLOGIST!!! While blowing your nose, you get the super important data that you can't be associated in any form to anyone that does not embrace scientology. You are told that is why you are sick. You leave the PTS handling with new suspicions about everyone, and a new sense of paranoia about your friends and family.
 

Dotey OT

Dis-Membered
I seem to recall some openly gay people going clear not too long ago. I think at the class v level it might be less of a problem these days, at least as far as getting services. I could be rembering this incorrectly though.

Joining staff/so and OT levels are a totally different story.
I do know of clear scientologists that were admittedly gay prior to swearing that they would not practice being gay. Not even a goodnight kiss.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member
I have never understood Hubbard's problem with sexuality, let alone homosexuality.

Was he forgetting that 'Thetans' don't have sexuality, psychiatrists invented sexuality in all it's forms and forced thetans to be sexually attracted to bodies through implant centres? A female body is a 'perfect theta trap'.
Thing is: Hubbard's esoteric principles are based on Crowley, who in turn based his on Blavatsky's Theosophy, who in turn based hers on ancient gnosticism.

The shortest summary of gnosticism I can provide would be: "Humans are purely spiritual beings, but trapped in matter. Matter is evil. Sex is an act of producing a new material body, thus sex is very evil."

I'm not sure if that idea clicked more with Ron as he aged, or did he perhaps in his older years read the source texts and aligned himself more closely with them?

What I'm getting at - Its not like this was just Hubbard's personal mania or something he invented. These notions were already in the intellectual DNA of his esoteric source material. Hubbard never fully de-programmed himself from Crowley's cult.

If I was his C/S I would have had him on hours and hours of auditing on his sexual and homosexual overts.
Why stop with auditing? Hubbard was one giant wasted opportunity for a perfect ethics cycle. Just noting down his evil intentions would give several EOs weeks upon weeks of work.
 
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La La Lou Lou

Well-known member
I do know of clear scientologists that were admittedly gay prior to swearing that they would not practice being gay. Not even a goodnight kiss.
That really is sad, on at least three counts, everyone needs a hug and a peck on the cheeks without feeling guilt. How can you progress so that you can be who you really are if you're not allowed to be who you really are? The road to total freedom, my arse! The road to spinning round and round in ever decreasing circles, and being made wrong about it.

This completely violates the '2D rules policy letter.

It is an example of Hubbard and Miss Carriage acting like the enemy. It's an example of 'must have can't have' which is apparently how the psychiatrists control people. This is how they control people.
 

Karakorum

Well-known member

guanoloco

As-Wased
I was in almost thirty years and did not read dianetics until my year in the cult number seventeen. I came in via wise. I had friends that had come in via dianetics, but the dianetics route was not the major route in as it once was.

You talk as if "case" can be "handled" and that the "gay thing" is "case."

My point has not been that being gay is an aberration and that scientology successfully handles aberration. My point is that there is a lie that scientology accepts being gay, but the truth is that being gay in scientology is not ok. Maybe you are helping me in making my point.

I'm with you. Regarding male homosexuality there's a possibility that one cause, if not THE cause, could be a congenital birth defect.

The video is cued up and watch it until 20:00.


Simon LeVay is the researcher and is gay, himself.

Here's some more to about 32:19 - it's already cued up from the start point.


As far as gay being "case" that is exactly what Scientology would view it as. I don't know of any or if anyone has had that addressed and/or changed or altered their orientation as a result.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
I really hope that I am not phobic about gay men or women. I am writing this because I saw it done, and I thought it was wrong then and definitely think it's wrong now.

I also have great friends that are gay and in scientology. They are so in that any effort made by me to help them see the light is met with them trying to recover me.

I may not be able to save them, but maybe I can save someone else.

I don't know why hubs thought what he did when he wrote the earlier materials, which pointed out so much about sexual practice was usually bad.

Later in scientology, I get the idea that he had an inclination to "pile on" as it were, to mostly normal activities and label them as needing correction. Masturbation is a good example. Here we have something that most everybody does. In scientology masturbation is bad, and undoubtedly the time spent in session "cleaning up" one of all their masturbation badness costs parishioners quite a bit of money. Masturbation is a great income source, and probably certain mental effects come in when having your "overts" run on such a benign thing. I doubt that it is healthy.

Another example to me is getting sick. It happens. It happens to almost everyone. In scientology, it's a great opportunity to really tattoo the PTS/SP data into a person. So you get a cold, but that is turned into a primer on, wait for it, THE ANTI-SOCIAL PERSON, THE ANTI-SCIENTOLOGIST!!! While blowing your nose, you get the super important data that you can't be associated in any form to anyone that does not embrace scientology. You are told that is why you are sick. You leave the PTS handling with new suspicions about everyone, and a new sense of paranoia about your friends and family.
It's Miscavige that's turned masturbation into a "thing". Hubbard is on record stating it's NOT an overt or withhold to be gotten.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Who here knows an openly avowed gay scientologist that was accepted onto the OT levels? I don't.
You can google "Michael Pattinson scientology" and click to heart's content.

On the Surviving Scientology Facebook page (only if you've got a strong stomach and a Facebook account to log into):

Rex Fowler Story
 
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