Losing my religion - the future of Scientology

guanoloco

As-Wased
For almost forty years, many have known and stated that Hubbard was behind what happened to the Mission Holders.

It was not that different from what had happened to Mission Holders Ray Kemp and Alan Walter some years earlier.

It was a pattern. Because it happened to a lot of Mission Holders at once, and preceded a schism, it was notable, and memorable.

Here's a fairly recent statement from Mike Rinder:

"LRH directed exactly what was to be done at the Mission Holders Conference in SFO following the one in Clearwater. The whole thing was recorded so it could be sent to him. He listened to it, sent Miscavige and others commendations, and ordered that the entire transcript be published."
Just like he ordered everything that Mary Sue and the GO did....and then later claimed he didn't know.

So much for being the 2nd and 3rd Dynamics.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
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If scientology worked it would have millions of members and would be flourishing and prospering. Instead it relies on scamming donations for Ideal Orgs. Why would anyone want to save it?
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ANSWER: Gradients. Saving Scientology comes just before saving the planet and once we do that we can then save this sector. So whadya say, are we going to clean this place up? Okay? Because we're counting on you. Okay? Alright?

PRO TIP: Using some paperclips and used batteries, you should demonstrate how ethical uptone beings need to make it go right to clean up this planet*.




* LINK TO HCOB: "Cleaning Windows with Newspapers & other vital Cleaning Technology"

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Veda

Well-known member
If scientology worked it would have millions of members and would be flourishing and prospering. Instead it relies on scamming donations for Ideal Orgs. Why would anyone want to save it?
Well, the response, from someone like the op, would be something like... SMERSH (or similar evil group) has been attacking Scientology since the beginning, and it's a tremendous accomplishment that Scientology exists at all. Initially, that Dianetics made (previously unreachable) buried memories accessible terrified SMERSH (which uses Pain-Drug Hypnosis), and, then, SMERSH became terrified that Scientology was producing Operating Thetans with its Advanced Courses.

Dianetics uncovering the secrets of the unconscious mind, and Scientology releasing the power of thetans, resulted in SMERSH (CIA, etc., etc.) infiltrating Scientology and, ultimately, installing David Miscavige as the boss, who promptly began "squirreling" the tech, so it would not be workable.

It's likely the op won't fully admit what the op believes, as the op is in "handling" mode.

There's also the expectation that Hubbard will return at some point, and take back the organization from SMERSH, thus the importance of asserting the religion angle, even though that benefits, in the short term, the hijacked SMERSH/Miscavige Scientology organization.

I had hoped that the Op's views might have changed, but it appears not.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
It has come to my attention that we are reaching a crisis point in Scientology. TRs are out of use, SHSBC doesn't seem to be on the training route any more and no upper class auditors are being made. Many of the orgs in the USA are in total disuse and disarray and - since the CoVid shutdown - have been boarded up. Freewinds hasn't moved from the dock in years and likely never will due to urgent maintenance needs.

On top of that, the same assclown who has run it into the ground is at the helm, where he has been for 40 years. He has created an environment in which the entire planet attacks and makes fun of our religion. All other execs are either in the "hole," blown or dead.

Where do we go from here?
People in the CofS who still believe in the tech have got to break away and form independent orgs. It happened in 1982; why not now?

Well, I don't think this will happen now because the indoctrination and conditioning in those who are left in the CofS appears to be too strong. Parishioners are conditioned to believe (and mostly do) that they will sacrifice their "eternity" if they leave, and this seems to be even more true of staff members.

Reform, as Pilot and others wanted in the 90s? The CofS is not going to change whilst Miscavige is in power, because all the symptoms you mention stem from the fact he is in overall control of the CofS and nothing he has done recently indicates that he has any genuine interest in the tech or in using it to help people. He's there to fill his pockets and perhaps for the sensation of power over his minions, and for little or no other reason.

Another, very long shot IMO is a palace revolution where a group of true believers in the tech who have figured out the real score about Miscavige and can see that under him the CofS is going nowhere fast, overthrow him and try to get the organisation back on track and disseminating the tech with a view to clearing the planet. I can't see this happening either, because the CofS's name is mud as the public is concerned (or a complete joke, and that's if they think about it at all).

My view now in 2021 is that it's a lost cause. There are a lot more options now for anyone seeking the things most of us came in to Scn for than there were in 1950, and one is better off taking one of them.
 

Karakorum

Broke ranks over 10 years ago, never looked back
Another, very long shot IMO is a palace revolution where a group of true believers in the tech who have figured out the real score about Miscavige and can see that under him the CofS is going nowhere fast, overthrow him and try to get the organisation back on track and disseminating the tech with a view to clearing the planet. I can't see this happening either, because the CofS's name is mud as the public is concerned (or a complete joke, and that's if they think about it at all).
If there are "loyal officers" who plan to overthrow Xemu Davey, I doubt they will stop just because the Scn name is radioactive in the popular opinion.

But I too doubt a coup will happen, based on my own personal experiences. In the 1.5 years or so just before I defected, I did in fact contemplate exactly such a coup scenario. But I realized I would need to waste 20+ years working for the cult before I would rise to a position where I could implement such a plan.

Having reached out to many people since 2019, I realized I'm hardly the only person who went through this thought process. The people with healthy disdain for Miscavige and sufficient guts to pull it off, have mostly tired of waiting and left the cult.
 
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Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
These threads have a way of getting a little or a lot off track and off subject. It is the nature of human beings I would guess and in that spirit I have decided to add this little story instead of making a separate thread.

When I was first in the cult I had previously read a book on Hypnosis. I think back then that I totally "got" Scientology.

I told my course super at break time that I realized that Scientology is all about the power of suggestion and "conning" yourself to "improve and be a better person". I said that this was not a bad thing and that I totally agree with it if it helps people to be happier. The course super didn't like what I was suggesting and took it for "entheta" abruptly "acknowledged" me and switched the subject. He obviously thought I was saying Scientology was a fraud (it was but I meant it in a good way if you can believe that). I reasoned that the reactive mind was hypothetical and not real from reading Dianetics and thought that it doesn't matter as long as it gets results and makes people feel better. I believe Hubbard wrote Dianetics that way just to set you up anyway, so that it would be easier to accept his nonsense when I think about it now.

I learnt that day that Scientologists really thought that the so called tech was real, that there really was a reactive mind. and that I better get in line.

It strikes me as hilarious that way back when I had a genuine realization (not a "cognition") about Scientology so early on but in spite of that I was hooked on this cult.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
These threads have a way of getting a little or a lot off track and off subject. It is the nature of human beings I would guess and in that spirit I have decided to add this little story instead of making a separate thread.

When I was first in the cult I had previously read a book on Hypnosis. I think back then that I totally "got" Scientology.

I told my course super at break time that I realized that Scientology is all about the power of suggestion and "conning" yourself to "improve and be a better person". I said that this was not a bad thing and that I totally agree with it if it helps people to be happier. The course super didn't like what I was suggesting and took it for "entheta" abruptly "acknowledged" me and switched the subject. He obviously thought I was saying Scientology was a fraud (it was but I meant it in a good way if you can believe that). I reasoned that the reactive mind was hypothetical and not real from reading Dianetics and thought that it doesn't matter as long as it gets results and makes people feel better. I believe Hubbard wrote Dianetics that way just to set you up anyway, so that it would be easier to accept his nonsense when I think about it now.

I learnt that day that Scientologists really thought that the so called tech was real, that there really was a reactive mind. and that I better get in line.

It strikes me as hilarious that way back when I had a genuine realization (not a "cognition") about Scientology so early on but in spite of that I was hooked on this cult.

Good stuff!

But your excellent post reveals another curious conundrum--or even a KSW Koan!


IF THE PC KNOWS THAT THE TECH THAT WORKS
IS ACTUALLY A "PCPC" (PRE-CLEAR PLACEBO CURE),
WILL IT STILL WORK
?

/
 
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Barile

Well-known member
This is a joke thread, right? Yall can't be serious. This is turning into the other forum I watch.... "Survival Forum", where members argue that "the shit has not actually hit the fan", as opposed to "the shit has hit the fan", except they resort to finger pointing, innuendo and quotes about history.
I just pop in once in awhile and point out that half of them work for three letter agencies. They love me.

I'd like to make a serious proposal, to make this a kinder, gentler place to discuss our own personal distortions about reality.

Belief Tags.

Instead of "Well known member" or some other status identifier under our avatar badge, we should have meaningful, easy to grasp
categorical identifiers. Like in most programming languages, a variable has a type, char, int, float, bool, blob... ya know, type identifiers.
There should be an easy to understand scale, ranging from:

"True Believer" to "Kiss my ass". Maybe even color code, for the reading challenged.
Imma make a few suggestions, in no particular order:

True Believer
I Believe, but I have issues
I Believe, I'm just here to change your mind
The Tech was stolen by the CIA, but I still believe
I had wins, but Miscaviage
I had wins, but I'm out of money
All the above, but I just like to debate
Not sure, but I'll keep my options open
I can prove OT abilities, but you would just invalidate me
I still get headaches
They Killed Kenny, you bastards!
Dad, Tom Cruise won't come outa the closet
The real truth comes from the lips of the worst offenders
Nobody Fucks with the Jesus
I'm just collecting names and evidence
I got a blog, so...
Have you tried DMT?
I'll just start my own thing, from what I learned
This aggression will not stand, man
Equal opportunity offender
Kiss my muffinunker ass

This is not intended to be an exhaustive list, because: diversity.
Yall wanna vote?
 

Enthetan

Veteran of the Psychic Wars
It was not that different from what had happened to Mission Holders Ray Kemp and Alan Walter some years earlier.

It was a pattern. Because it happened to a lot of Mission Holders at once, and preceded a schism, it was notable, and memorable.
Hubbard could not tolerate independent opinion leaders (people whose status as opinion leaders was independent of Hubbard) in the Scientology field.
 

Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
Good stuff!

But your excellent post reveals another curious conundrum--or even a KSW Koan!


IF THE PC KNOWS THAT THE WORKABLE
TECH IS ACTUALLY A "PC" (PLACEBO CURE),
WILL IT STILL WORK
?

/
The course super later asked for a refund and left the cult before I did. I still have this urge to remind him how he was an even bigger fanatic than I was but I never saw him again.

At the time I actually agreed that the tech would work even if you knew it was a placebo. It was just a matter of persisting and making yourself let go and "believe", or at least that was how I saw it.

I suppose you could even make a case for a Scientology without all the abusive policies and expensive fees.

On the other hand, Peter Townshend wrote a line in "Tommy" that sums up my feeling these days about Scientology:

"LET'S FORGET YOU BETTER STILL."
 
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HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
I'd like to make a serious proposal, to make this a kinder, gentler place to discuss our own personal distortions about reality.Belief Tags. Instead of "Well known member" or some other status identifier under our avatar badge, we should have meaningful, easy to grasp categorical identifiers. Like in most programming languages, a variable has a type, char, int, float, bool, blob... ya know, type identifiers.There should be an easy to understand scale, ranging from: "True Believer" to "Kiss my ass".
True Believer​
I Believe, but I have issues​
I Believe, I'm just here to change your mind​
The Tech was stolen by the CIA, but I still believe​
I had wins, but Miscavige​
I had wins, but I'm out of money​
All the above, but I just like to debate​
Not sure, but I'll keep my options open​
I can prove OT abilities, but you would just invalidate me​
I still get headaches​
They Killed Kenny, you bastards!​
Dad, Tom Cruise won't come outa the closet​
The real truth comes from the lips of the worst offenders​
Nobody Fucks with the Jesus​
I'm just collecting names and evidence​
I got a blog, so...​
Have you tried DMT?​
I'll just start my own thing, from what I learned​
This aggression will not stand, man
Equal opportunity offender​
Kiss my muffinunker ass​
.
LOL

Using Dr. Hubbard's book SOS (Science of Serious-itas) I have been able to seriously isolate and identify my own personal TONE TAG from the above Gravitas To Glee-vitas Scale, man.



/
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
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At the time I actually agreed that the tech would work even if you knew it was a placebo. It was just a matter of persisting and making yourself let go and "believe", or at least that was how I saw it.
.

That's a fascinating concept!

If true, it would directly prove that SCIentology is in fact SODentology.

To wit, not Science. But instead Suspension Of Disbelief.

Accordingly, we would then have to answer to why "The Most Dedicated Scientologist In The World" award was given to a movie star. Actors are the world's leading experts on producing Suspension Of Disbelief in movie watchers AND personally when "mocking up" believable personas and staying in-character sufficiently to get others to buy tickets, join in and become part of the cosplay.

.
 

Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
I think one of the biggest mistakes Hubbard made was destroying the mission network. Missionaries were mostly normal people with jobs, families and lives and, as such, had an invaluable "outreach" function for Scn.
Yes, but it didn't surprise me as I almost expected it. Hubbard allowed franchises and then found it wasteful that some people would rather spend their money on a franchise service as opposed to an official org. I knew it was just a matter of time before he went back on his word and decided that he wanted it "all".

In a way it was a great thing that he did. He made Scientology even more ugly and turned off even more people. But you knew that already.
 

Barile

Well-known member
.
LOL

Using Dr. Hubbard's book SOS (Science of Serious-itas) I have been able to seriously isolate and identify my own personal TONE TAG from the above Gravitas To Glee-vitas Scale, man.



/
Seems about right. That thread really tied the room together...
 

Veda

Well-known member
Yes, but it didn't surprise me as I almost expected it. Hubbard allowed franchises and then found it wasteful that some people would rather spend their money on a franchise service as opposed to an official org. I knew it was just a matter of time before he went back on his word and decided that he wanted it "all".

In a way it was a great thing that he did. He made Scientology even more ugly and turned off even more people. But you knew that already.
A turning point was the court ordered release of documents which had been seized by federal search warrants, with stories such as this appearing in both North America and Europe. Mission holders read newspapers, or had friends or relatives that read newspapers. Link to 8 February 1980 article.




Many also saw this TV show, and others like it, from 1980.

Mission holders were told by Scientology that Hubbard "didn't know" anything about it, but they were also told that Scientology had actually done nothing wrong.

Hubbard had disappeared. It was a very strange time.

One pattern in Scientology is that Hubbard would seek to exert his influence externally, as he attempted to in 1966 in southern Africa. When he failed at that, he started the Sea Org, and used it to exert increased influence internally, especially on Class IV (now V) Orgs.

With the Guardians Office, Hubbard was exerting influence externally until July 1977, when the FBI raided and, then, two years later, thousands of documents were released for public scrutiny.

Hubbard was now introverted and in hiding, and he was under attack.

Mission holders were prospering and not under attack.

True to the pattern, Hubbard lashed out and exerted his influence internally, looting the missions, whose money and pcs he wanted (remember "Missions are holding onto "Dianetic Clears," etc.)

According to David Mayo, in 1978, Hubbard redefined "Clear" for PR and marketing reasons.

When this was happening, most Mission holders were still in the dark,, and believed Hubbard really "didn't know."

They thought they were resisting the mystery management, not Hubbard.

As time progressed, Mission holders learned more, and Hubbard was recognized as the instigator.
 

Barile

Well-known member
Seems about right. That thread really tied the room together...
.
LOL

Using Dr. Hubbard's book SOS (Science of Serious-itas) I have been able to seriously isolate and identify my own personal TONE TAG from the above Gravitas To Glee-vitas Scale, man.



/
Grats! Donuts in the breakroom.

Certificate of Achievement.jpg
 
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