I M Dex
Well-known member
You successfully processed the attitude you had (superficially understood in Scientology as a "service fac") that held that condition in place.
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Looking for auditing, favourably from open-minded squirrel
- Thread starter p0wer
- Start date
Interesting!
The final EP was from a distant past life where I used my high energy level and power in such a destructive manner that it ended up in a traumatic experience when I got confronted with the range of the damage. The release was quite intense.
I find it interesting how each attempt surfaced heavier events and releases, as if it was removing shell by shell. So why not repeating this process as long as getting releases as it's unlikely that all related events can release at once. Or is there anything I overlook?
HelluvaHoax!
Well-known member
..
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I was recently running wholetrack overts using my Self Analysis perceptic wheel and bumped into a similar incident where I used my high energy level and OT powers to destroy all the planets in the universe.
I am now trying to take full responsibility for that by doing lower ethics conditions for murdering all beings in an intergalactic genocide and wondering what would be an amends project of comparable magnitude. When I used to be in the COS I would have simply gone into the local org and done 2-3 hours of filing in the Central Files area. But as an ethical Indie Scientologist, I want to be sure to "exchange in abundance!"
Any thoughts on what kind of amends project would be appropriate?
..
.
I was recently running wholetrack overts using my Self Analysis perceptic wheel and bumped into a similar incident where I used my high energy level and OT powers to destroy all the planets in the universe.
I am now trying to take full responsibility for that by doing lower ethics conditions for murdering all beings in an intergalactic genocide and wondering what would be an amends project of comparable magnitude. When I used to be in the COS I would have simply gone into the local org and done 2-3 hours of filing in the Central Files area. But as an ethical Indie Scientologist, I want to be sure to "exchange in abundance!"
Any thoughts on what kind of amends project would be appropriate?
..
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I M Dex
Well-known member
That's actually how power processing works. Hubbard falsely declared that it can only be run once, so that rather than continue to reap the benefits, customers would be pushed onward to the more money-making "OT level" services. John Mcmaster spearheaded the development of power processing, and explained this in lectures he gave after leaving the "Church", although even his understanding wasn't 100% correct. Power can actually be run dozens of times, each time unearthing new meaningful material. But like doctors who are trained to believe in and prescribe questionable medications whether or not they actually apply well to the individual's condition, in Scientology, auditors are trained to believe in and stick to Hubbard's self-serving decrees. I used to run power on clients dozens of times, each to very good changes, until I came to parse what the actual working mechanics of the technique are, and simplified it.
I find most "Scientology" techniques, aside from not being originated by Hubbard, despite his claims, to be of little value most of the time for most people. Among other reasons, they are too specifically addressing Hubbard's own projections, based on his own filters, of "everybody's case", i.e., his case. So it's pretty much hit or miss most of the way, but power processing, albeit not the purest form as it is configurated in Scientology, is different, because it allows you to have emerge whatever is relevant for you, and so the results are usually truly impactful. I say "usually", because I've had clients who "ran" it in the "Church" without the commands being really understood, by auditors who were very rote, because the truth is, despite Hubbard's propaganda, real spiritual healers cannot be manufactured through training. Either you have that passion or you don't.
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Reyne Mayer
Pansexual Revolutionary
i would suggest considering that what you experienced may have been about as much about context -- being repeatedly asked a question while in a state of 'reverie' -- as content, the question itself.
among the concerns i have about auditing, are that LRH was unscientific and sloppy in developing it, and seemingly deliberately mis-attributed some if not much of what was going on -- such as not acknowledging how much questions, particularly when asked of someone in a suggestible state like reverie, can be leading or even a form of 'evaluating' for the subject.
however it seems from what i can tell that some of the best auditors are just natural therapists who'd do well and help people with almost any modality. and those who have gone back to 'book one' style auditing without a meter seem like they're probably perceptive enough, and have enough experience, to have dialed back and tried to eliminate LRH's (and his largely uncredited collaborators') mistakes, and get back to the essentials of what has some value.
I M Dex
Well-known member
Or more precisely, "Hubbard's entirely uncredited collaborators", according to Hubbard's "Keeping Scientology Working":
"In all the years I have been engaged in research I have kept my comm lines wide open
for research data. I once had the idea that a group could evolve truth. A third of a century has
thoroughly disabused me of that idea. Willing as I was to accept suggestions and data, only a
handful of suggestions (less than twenty) had long-run value and none were major or basic;
and when I did accept major or basic suggestions and used them, we went astray and I repen-
ted and eventually had to “eat crow”."
No lie was too big for L Ron Hubbard.
And I would argue the phrase "Hubbard's collaborators"; more like "the sources of what Hubbard plagiarized".
pineapple
能说的名字不真的名字
ELIZA - Wikipedia
pineapple
能说的名字不真的名字
Now that you said that, it sounds a lot like Power Process 6. (Based only on reading; I never did Power.)
[excerpt]
The Conditions Process commands are:
1. Tell me an existing condition.
2. Tell me how you handled it.
Process EP: The Conditions Process is ended when the Preclear has a revivification of the Engram in which he or she is stuck on the Time-track. It is preceded at times by anaten (feeling groggy, sleepy) or a Secondary (incident with loss and misemotion) or both.
Notice that Power Pr. 4-6 each have a specific EP, not just F/N, VGIs and some random cognition. The Auditor may have to 'Fish for the cognition' if something apparently happened but is not expressed by PC. Auditor basically uses TR-4. He can use questions as 'Did anything occur?', 'What is happening' but would never go into what he is looking for. The PC has to say it on his own.
..snip..
What the Auditor should be looking for is a revivification of this back track incident. At some point the PC, who was completely in session, will briefly relive this ONE incident. It will become more real and present than present time and you have got it! You have enabled the PC to find and As-is the incident he was stuck in. And that's the EP you are looking for.
[end excerpt]
Reyne Mayer
Pansexual Revolutionary
those are the classic characteristics of an (implanted) false memory -- just saying, i don't fully understand the context here and just how that might apply. but things like 'Fish for the cognition' sound to me like they run the risk of the operator subtly suggesting or prompting the subject.
but i would suggest being really careful with this stuff -- much more so than LRH was or taught people to be (or not to be).
implanting false memories and then having those cause someone to change personality or take action based on them is pretty much brainwashing, isn't it?
What Experts Wish You Knew about False Memories
oh, and i'll add in what might be getting known as one of my signature challenges: if you believe at all in psychic and telepathic phenomenon -- which should be OT powers, right -- then isn't there the huge problem that the operator/auditor could (or even should be able to) transmit images, thoughts, and even commands to the PC non-verbally?
I M Dex
Well-known member
Yes, the conditions process. Much of Hubbard's description, as given above, is incorrect and misleading. It's based on the mechanics of 1951 effort processing, which nobody I know of has ever recognized or pointed out. "Get the effort/get the counter-effort", reworded as "the condition/how you handled it". More often than not, there is no discernable "revivification", and it isn't really about being "stuck" in any particular "incident". It's more a matter of, as more and more of the feeling ("charge") is restored to consciousness, eventually the scale tips completely at some point, it all gives way to being spiritually digested. What's being processed is what matters, the feeling ("charge") that has manifested through every moment that comes to mind during the process. Unlike the usual "earlier similar" pattern of Scientology/Dianetics processes, power processing allows the natural flow of moments of manifestation of that feeling, without forcing the attention always earlier, and so moments earlier or later arise through exactly how the individual's mind releases these. John Mcmaster called it "cycling on the track"; I'd call it "not getting in the way of the person's spiritual compass to commandeer control".
And there's no need for using an e-meter. The meter is a somewhat reliable one-dimensional crutch for noticing what's happening with the participant, and to the degree that the processor needs that, they are not very present and connected with the client. Which can happen when someone who isn't a natural for this kind of work finds themself in the position of being an "auditor" and has to do the best they can with the instructions they've been given.
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pineapple
能说的名字不真的名字
I'd say the auditor and the pc work together on the false memories. Auditor sees a big blowdown or an F/N and a marked change in the pc's aspect, like the pc is maybe going "Whoa ...." and says "What's happening?" or "Did something occur there?" The PC has been around long enough to know the auditor -- who he thinks knows more than he does -- sees something. He "knows" all aberration supposedly comes from engrams, so he subconsciously cobbles together some wild past track incident.
I ran past track in Dns and I never consciously made anything up. I knew it might be dub-in but I didn't care 'cause LRH says it ultimately doesn't matter. But today I don't believe any of those incidents were real.
This wasn't in session, but doing TR-0 on the Comm Course. I saw the face of the person I was doing TR's with changing rapidly, like a "cascade of faces." I thought these were all the identities she'd been during her previous lives, and she was deliberately making me see this, to let me know that scn really worked! She was an OT and a highly-trained auditor, and those people really impressed me then. At the time, I was convinced! (I'd been reading Carlos Castenada, and doing lots of LSD until a few weeks before.)
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Besides amends, how do we know we will not become destructive again when we regain this immense amount of power? Are there any processes for this? I think as soon as we learned dealing with such power in a positive way the "recovery" will be much faster, so is it possible that this is what amends are really for, learning and getting habit of using energy levels for positive ways rather than in a sense of karma?
Dotey OT
Re-Membered
You are correct.
IMHO, it maybe should be FISH FOR ANY COGNITION may be truer. Given an opportunity, one comes up with something.
Then it's the same thing, FISH FOR ANY SUCCESS STORY. Given an opportunity, one comes up with something. You could probably "AUDIT OUT" scientology by counseling a person on all their success stories.
Dotey OT
Re-Membered
I ran past track in dn, 3 l's, fprd. I too now do not believe the incidents I ran were real, I somehow created them. I believe people have evidence of the fabrications possible from their minds. They are called dreams.
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I M Dex
Well-known member
I believe that some "whole track" that arises in processing, when it doesn't exhibit the qualities, material and characteristics of Hubbard's "space opera" descriptions and scenarios, or any other "this is what you should expect to find" subtle implanting, can be factual, but I also think that "dreaming" is a good word for what frequently comes up. I think that one of the common functions and mechanics of dreams is to try to sort out and process what has been "too much" to experience when or as it actually has happened, to creatively reconfigure it into some somewhat comprehensible form, albeit imaginary. And I believe the same process frequently takes place through what arises as being "whole track", or "BT's" in Scientology processing; it's our own way of trying to find a way to assimilate what has been overwhelming to us. And it can be of some value, in terms of providing a degree of the relief sought. But this tends to be ephemeral or only successful to a degree, because it's not a reliable means of fully processing the feelings involved, which is what it's all really about. Concocting and investing oneself in scenarios to "explain" one's pain and fear can be somewhat satisfying in providing some sense of relief, but it doesn't allow for fully processing strong feelings.
mimsey borogrove
Well-known member
I think some past life incidents I ran were real, most others were dub in. I feel the same way about running bts. Mimsey
Dotey OT
Re-Membered
I meant to say they were NOT REAL. Sorry, I sometimes get out typed by my spell check and formerly fat fingers!!!!
pineapple
能说的名字不真的名字
I often found myself FISHING FOR OVERTS when writing up my overts (something I must have done god knows how many times). I didn't completely make things up, but I'd take things I didn't really think were overts and TURN THEM INTO OVERTS -- sort of look at them from a different angle and try to see them as overts. I'd ask myself, "How could that have been an overt?"
I won't say I convinced myself these FAUXVERTS really were overts, but at least I came up with a few pages of stuff, enough for a respectable write-up, enough to say I'd fulfilled the requirement.
pineapple
能说的名字不真的名字
There are of course other types of overts besides the above-mentioned FAUXVERTS:
NOVERTS -- Things that can't be converted into overts, and thus aren't even fauxverts; they just aren't.
DOUGHVERTS -- Overts involving money, very common in scn.
PO'VERTS -- A subset of DOUGHVERTS: insisting one is too poor to donate, refusing to buy a revised copy of an LRH book one already has several copies of, buy a second e-meter, etc.
HOVERTS -- Engaging in prostitution while pretending to body-route, in an attempt to supplement one's non-existent staff pay; again a type of DOUGHVERT.
BLOWVERTS -- Overts that are followed by an actual blow, i.e. leaving. Usually a BLOWVERT results from a history of continuous DOUGHVERTS. Once one has sunk to HOVERTS, the BLOWVERT is not far behind.
NOVERTS -- Things that can't be converted into overts, and thus aren't even fauxverts; they just aren't.
DOUGHVERTS -- Overts involving money, very common in scn.
PO'VERTS -- A subset of DOUGHVERTS: insisting one is too poor to donate, refusing to buy a revised copy of an LRH book one already has several copies of, buy a second e-meter, etc.
HOVERTS -- Engaging in prostitution while pretending to body-route, in an attempt to supplement one's non-existent staff pay; again a type of DOUGHVERT.
BLOWVERTS -- Overts that are followed by an actual blow, i.e. leaving. Usually a BLOWVERT results from a history of continuous DOUGHVERTS. Once one has sunk to HOVERTS, the BLOWVERT is not far behind.
Hello P0wer,
Helena alerted me to your post and I have now read the thread. If you have sent me an e-mail, I have not received it - I moved house a while ago and still haven't fully sorted out everything
I have been auditing over Skype for many years now, I believe it is the future. I suggest you send me a contact request on Skype to hbeer541 and we see if we can find some common ground
Best, Heidrun
Helena alerted me to your post and I have now read the thread. If you have sent me an e-mail, I have not received it - I moved house a while ago and still haven't fully sorted out everything
I have been auditing over Skype for many years now, I believe it is the future. I suggest you send me a contact request on Skype to hbeer541 and we see if we can find some common ground
Best, Heidrun
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