Hi, how did you get rid of your auditing addiction?

[Type4_PTS]

I think you’re awesome, truly. I like your posts.

But I don’t much like AI interfaces. They gobble up energy and water and some of them take work away from artists.

This is just a 2-minute video, not the one I was looking for, but it touches a bit on the energy issue, how to create data centers that don't take any energy from the grid.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Trigger warning, LOL.
"Appeal to authority fallacy" . . . a claim is asserted as true because an authority figure
supports it, even though the authority has no stats and results in real life to back him up.

Psychology and psychiatry . . . two fake sciences?

Our federal government spends billions funding them, holding them up, and they produce
little or nothing as our entire culture and society goes downhill.

You keep bringing up that DSM-V book, as if these questionable
talk therapies actually can cure anyone. Have they ever cured
any one person of anything ever? Really cured?

Woody Allen has claimed to have spent over 20 years in psychoanalysis, and it’s been​

a recurring theme in his films and interviews. In a 2015 interview with NPR, he said:​

Hubbard claimed that his "science" could permanently erase a person's neuroses or insanities.
Make the insane sane, he's quoted as claiming. Permanently delete or vanish mental stresses,
phobias, obsessions, compulsions, and much more.

​

I was shocked as hell when I went to Flag and met a bunch of OT7s who had the same issues and problem​

after 5-10-20 years in auditing that they came into scientology with originally. Many were very embarrassing​

and pretty serious . . . like serial cheating on their spouse, prostitutes, blatant financial crimes. Even worse.​

Do any of these mainstream therapies actually work to deliver a permanent fix for people or are
they just a bunch of talk -- therapist and client -- behind closed doors. Can any of them actually
create a permanent and meaningful change? Can a psychologist CURE ANYTHING at all?

I'm very curious. I've never seen one cure in my entire life. I've been around and see a lot.

For example, can modern therapy take a black Chicago street thug and murderer and cure him?
Or are all these therapies essentially semi-frauds or activities that produce little noticeable change
or some minor change with high degree of relapse? What is the state of the art nowadays?

Does a mental "science" actually exist or not today?

I talked to an older semi-retired wealthy psychiatrist (key word is wealthy) in my neighborhood.
Asked him if he did "talk therapy" anymore. He answered back: "We don't do that anymore. They
want us to use drugs nowadays." Seems like this is the trend now, according to him.

He deals with military veterans (PTSD) part-time as a gesture. I guess he's unable to "cure" them,
so he just puts them on drugs permanently.

If either of these practices -- psychology and psychiatry -- could cure anything, why don't they cure
all the criminals in our prisons, all the terrorists roaming our streets, all the thugs in the slums, all
the homeless people living on the streets. Any of these would be good social betterment projects.

Truth is they can't cure anything or they would. I just don't see it.

Fake news. Fake sciences.

View attachment 28264​

I think there IS some truth in your post. That said, psychologists and psychiatrists don't all operate in the same way or use the same methods, and some of them do help people. And some of their methods are science-based based but psychiatrists have been influenced way too much by the pharmaceutical industry IMO.

I know people who have been cured of PTSD, or at least reduced their symptoms by 95% or more, and that is by more than one method. The University of South Florida researched a method called ART (Accelerated Resolution Therapy), and they reversed some people's PTSD in as little as an hour. Gary Craig, the engineer who developed EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique), worked with multiple Vietnam veterans who had been going to regular therapy for over ten years and still had severe PTSD. It was, at worst, mild after working with them for a weekend. That isn't typical, but I do know practitioners trained by Dawson Church who certify people for Clinical EFT do help people with PTSD. Their top trainer had complex PTSD herself and reversed it. There have been over 200 peer-reviewed studies for the method, and it's beginning to go mainstream now with the APA and AMA beginning to give continuing education credits, and it's used in some hospitals (including the Cleveland Clinic) and by the VA. I used it 15 or 20 years ago, just as a beginner, and reversed symptoms by 95% or more to two pretty severe allergies (oak tree pollen and cats). I read a book and did the procedure on myself for less than two hours total. I went from having breathing problems if in a home for two hours if they had a couple of cats to with 8 cats!

This is IMO one of the best threads on the original ESMB (Glenda's story). A psychologist saved her life:
Sallydannce's Story

Sallydannce's Story

The following personal counseling testimony on the effects and resolution of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder was sent to me by an exScn. Due to the intimate nature of the sessions, this person wishes to remain completely anonymous on the forum. I request that discussion of this be limited to...

forum.exscn.net

 

[ILove2Lurk]

I think there IS some truth in your post.

My post was in response to silly, silly comments like this on the thread.

That the DSM-5 is the one and only Holy Bible and you, ESMB member, your life experience doesn't count.

ChatGPT is not an accredited peer-reviewed medical science publication.

To the best of my knowledge, nobody posting in these forums has the academic training, certifications, clinical experience, and peer-reviewed journal publication portfolio to make any meaningful claims that any given practice or behavior is an "addiction".

The American Psychiatric Association does not (at this time) recognize an addiction to any kind of talk therapy as actually existing. They are the experts in this field, not the text processing robot.

Absolutely silly!!! "Appeal to a fake authority fallacy."

American Psychiatric Association are charlatans, expensive frauds, IMO.

This message board exists so we who have walked that "closely taped path" can share
our feeling about it. If it's addiction for a person, then it's addiction for that person.

 

[Type4_PTS]

My post was in response to silly, silly comments like this on the thread.

That the DSM-5 is the one and only Holy Bible and you, ESMB member, your life experience doesn't count.




Absolutely silly!!! "Appeal to a fake authority fallacy."

American Psychiatric Association are charlatans, expensive frauds, IMO.

This message board exists so we who have walked that "closely taped path" can share
our feeling about it. If it's addiction for a person, then it's addiction for that person.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you about the American Psychiatric Association. As far as individual psychiatrists, there are IMO some good ones; they're not all the same. Dr. Daniel Amen is a great one. I know people who have gone to one of his clinics and have been helped. Then, there are so many others who your neighbor, the semi-retired psychiatrist, described.

Years back, I was dating a woman who was on psych drugs. She experienced lots of trauma as a child, and she had some serious issues. One day, she had an appointment to see the psychiatrist to get her psych drugs adjusted, and I accompanied her to the appointment. She told him about some unwanted side effects she was experiencing from what she had been taking, and he made some substitutions. But other than that, there was zero conversation about how she was doing in life, and zero compassion or empathy from this guy. I was stunned by what I saw that day.


I've had this YouTube video open in a window for a couple of weeks now, but haven't watched it yet. But this woman doesn't seem to be a fan of psychiatrists.


Here’s Why You Should Never Go to a Psychiatrist

 

[ILove2Lurk]

I've had this YouTube video open in a window for a couple of weeks now, but haven't watched it yet.

It's short (13 min) and it's good. Scary.

The long-form (2 hrs 20 min) not worthwhile. Depressing story.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

* ChatGPT is not an accredited peer-reviewed medical science publication.​

* To the best of my knowledge, nobody posting in these forums has the academic training, certifications, clinical experience, and peer-reviewed journal publication portfolio to make any meaningful claims that any given practice or behavior is an "addiction".​

* The American Psychiatric Association does not (at this time) recognize an addiction to any kind of talk therapy as actually existing. They are the experts in this field, not the text processing robot.​

Absolutely silly!!! "Appeal to a fake authority fallacy." This message board exists so we who have walked that "closely taped path" can share our feeling about it. If it's addiction for a person, then it's addiction for that person.

Outstanding post.

Reading your perfectly logical, common-sense conclusion brought to mind some other oddities. . .

Although everyone (even Scientology "Indies") have the right to believe in whatever they want to believe in,

* If "ChatGPT is not an accredited peer-reviewed medical science publication" then how would a Scientologist or Indie Scientologist rely on, believe in or trust Hubbard's unaccredited, non-peer-reviewed, unscientific publications and wildly irrational claims? Especially since they have been brutally debunked for 75 years by both scientists and certified medical professionals.​

​

* If "nobody posting in these forums has the academic training, certifications, clinical experience, and peer-reviewed journal publication portfolio to make any meaningful claims that any given practice or behavior is an "addiction" then how would any Scientologist or Indie Scientologist have the academic training, certification, clinical experience and peer-reviewed journal publication portfolio to make any meaningful claims that any given practice or behavior is NOT an addiction?​

​

* If "The American Psychiatric Association does not (at this time) recognize an addiction to any kind of talk therapy as actually existing. They are the experts in this field..." then how can a Scientologist or Indie Scientologist swear by and promote Hubbard's talk therapy that charges obscene professional rates by the hour (i.e. it's a business) that the American Psychiatric Association does not recognize or certify as a legitimate talk therapy, especially considering that "they (psychiatrists) are the experts in this field".​

Scientology is very very very, um--odd, ain't it? LOL

.

 

[TheSneakster]

then how can a Scientologist or Indie Scientologist swear by and promote Hubbard's talk therapy

In all the years I've been on social media, I have never done that. I'm pretty sure you know that perfectly well, too.

Yes, I'll debate what is or is not contained in the subject and what Hubbard actually did or did not say.

But go back as far as you like, even to 1993 and the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup and you will never find even one communication from me touting Scientology as the one and only path to Man's Salvation, glorifying the wonders of Scientology "Bridge", telling people to do the OT Levels, or directing anyone to take training or auditing services even from Indies or Freezoners ("promoting").

I'm sure you'll figure out a way to make me wrong for that, too.

 

[I M Dex]

Addiction to therapy is a recognized condition. These references aside, I've encountered a small number of clients who were using the sessions mainly to try to validate the conditions they were presenting themselves as having, basically from some perceived need and desire to be recognized as the identity they had embraced. Those clients didn't have any substantial positive changes, as that wasn't what they were there for. I discouraged them from continuing after a little while, suggesting they try someone else for sessions or make some other change, pointing out that they continued to complain of the same conditions in every session, and so this wasn't working.

Can Therapy Be Addictive? : The Power and Terror of Termination

How the termination phase of treatment is handled (or mishandled) by the therapist can determine success or failure. When is therapy over? Who decides? And on what basis? What happens when psychotherapy goes on either too briefly or too long?

www.psychologytoday.com

The Darker Side of Therapy - Ten Ways to Deal with Dependency

There is a dark side to therapy that nobody wants to talk about; even therapists, especially therapists. Its a

psychcentral.com

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

In all the years I've been on social media, I have never done that. I'm pretty sure you know that perfectly well, too.

Yes, I'll debate what is or is not contained in the subject and what Hubbard actually did or did not say.

But go back as far as you like, even to 1993 and the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup and you will never find even one communication from me touting Scientology as the one and only path to Man's Salvation, glorifying the wonders of Scientology "Bridge", telling people to do the OT Levels, or directing anyone to take training or auditing services even from Indies or Freezoners ("promoting").

I'm sure you'll figure out a way to make me wrong for that, too.

Sure, I understand what you are saying, but the word "PROMOTE" does include your announcing in every post you make that you are an "INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST". Nothing wrong with that if you like people knowing that, but that's a form of promotion, no?

Since this isn't a courtroom trial and you made very sure (in the signature section of every one of your posts) to brief people on the fact that you are "not a trained or qualified lawyer", I'll say this. What I am posting is not evidence in a trial. It's opinion. Same as you post opinions. So I don't see where any "sworn testimony" or "cross examination" or "perjurious impeachment of each word" of each opinion is hardly necessary.

ps: I never said that you tout Scn as man's salvation, et al. I merely referenced that you promote that you are an INDIE scientologist. By posting that many thousands of times I would assume that you want people to know that and have a favorable opinion of Indie Scientology. In any case, enjoy your Indie-ness, nobody really cares what parts of Hubbard's hoax you find helpful. Go for it if you like it.

Also, I am not a trained or qualified OT.

..

 

[Hatshepsut]

Yeah, I tend to agree with you about the American Psychiatric Association. As far as individual psychiatrists, there are IMO some good ones; they're not all the same. Dr. Daniel Amen is a great one. I know people who have gone to one of his clinics and have been helped. Then, there are so many others who your neighbor, the semi-retired psychiatrist, described.

Years back, I was dating a woman who was on psych drugs. She experienced lots of trauma as a child, and she had some serious issues. One day, she had an appointment to see the psychiatrist to get her psych drugs adjusted, and I accompanied her to the appointment. She told him about some unwanted side effects she was experiencing from what she had been taking, and he made some substitutions. But other than that, there was zero conversation about how she was doing in life, and zero compassion or empathy from this guy. I was stunned by what I saw that day.


I've had this YouTube video open in a window for a couple of weeks now, but haven't watched it yet. But this woman doesn't seem to be a fan of psychiatrists.


Here’s Why You Should Never Go to a Psychiatrist

Regarding the video:
I'd been given levothyroxine after surgery to drain a fluid filled cyst leaning on my thyroid gland. The doctor who was THE specialist in the field, said I'd be on it for life. The meds come from Singapore and the quality each time is variable. I hated it and he stated i'd be on it for the rest of my life. Even trying to secretly cold turkey myself off the beginner, does left me in a coma. Big brain fog. slurred words, sleeping 2 days at a time with one BM per week. It was a nightmare watching my hair fall out upon my pillow.

There had been no such disease in my family and in my gut I knew it was bacterial. It had spread from an ignored painful strep-feeling abscess back of my tonsil, making a fluid-filled cyst pushing into the back of the thyroid gland. I did not need invasive surgery on my thyroid. But my specialist was the big 'it' doctor for this. The manufacturers overseas for the thyroid drugs are not monitored closely any more. This has lead to so many patients' sudden decline, that many specialists prescribe the name brand ONLY in hermetically foil-sealed bottles, rather than have suicide or cardiac or mental instability. After 30 yrs I'm up to almost the highest dose, with the vagus nerve causing convulsion and unstoppable retching if I forget one dose. I've no other meds other than to reduce heart rate caused by the first.

During a brief stay at the hospital, a psychiatrist mentioned they could do an invasive procedure into the brain at Cleveland Clinic to see if there was an abnormal growth stimulating the pituitary. I was out of my gourd exterior climbing the walls like Spiderman with adrenals pumping and unbelievable heart rate. The atlernative was a semi coma where I could have the drug get out of my body. The overworked heart could stop and I said no. No to probing down into the pituitary also. I'm reminded of the girl in The Exorcist who got tested.

After a raging fit with doctors I no longer trusted, they adamantly prescribed medium strength Seroquel. Just 2 pills later, I was a zombie and called CCHR to come get me out. I threatened to sue, saying I never took drugs and they were polluting my body against my will and 'religious beliefs'. The psych informed me 'we can still do that surgery, but you might not want that as there can be mistakes'.

Never agree to take meds when told 'You will be on this for LIFE'. Question it. If not the exact same quality of ingredients each and every time, you have ups and downs. No admission from pharmacies of sub standard lot of pills thru some change to cheaper mfg. Had to pay out of pocket and order from Canada to get the 'active' ingredient that was suddenly dead from Walgreens. Dr Phil just did a show on the inept handling of temperature and light sensitive heart meds stolen and resold to U.S. pharmacies after expiration date.

counterfeit medication



The thyroid works with the hypothalmus and pituitary loop. An imbalance of the hormones this group of glands creates can make you feel bipolar. An unstable 'batch' created in china which does NOT keep its half life or duration once in the body, can do the same. Too much can cause paranoia and hypersensitivity to light and sound which is agonizing. No one should have to take a drug for the rest of his life because some doctor says so, when nothing has previously been wrong, ever.

 

[I M Dex]

My late son Geoffrey was prescribed levoxyl after his initial cancer surgery, which involved removing most of his thyroid, as a child. He did ok with a generic form, but I became acquainted with some people for whose children the generic form didn't work, so "generic" is not always "identical".

 

[Hatshepsut]

To value or not to value those top secret levels. Speaking frankly, these ex big wigs are no longer addicted

 

[Dankmeme]

Rather a broad generalisation here, to lump psychology and psychiatry into a single 'thing' and dismiss both.

I think you'd need to study psychology before you can dismiss it as a "fake science"... and if you studied it, you'd understand that it's at work all around you, in education, interface design, marketing, policing...

The internal workings of the human mind will always attract charlatans (L Ron Hubbard was just one) becuase you can speculate about the internal workings of the human mind for a lifetime and nobody can directly disprove your claims... but if I needed counselling, I'm sure it'd be safer to get it from a licensed medical professional than a faux 'religion' like the Scientology UFO Cult or the Cheapzone 'mini me' Hubbard apologists.

 

[Type4_PTS]

My post was in response to silly, silly comments like this on the thread.

That the DSM-5 is the one and only Holy Bible and you, ESMB member, your life experience doesn't count.




Absolutely silly!!! "Appeal to a fake authority fallacy."

American Psychiatric Association are charlatans, expensive frauds, IMO.

This message board exists so we who have walked that "closely taped path" can share
our feeling about it. If it's addiction for a person, then it's addiction for that person.

I'll be interested to see how psychiatrists respond to this.

SSRI Shockwave: New Study Ties Antidepressants to Faster Cognitive Decline, Fractures, and Early Death

New evidence links antidepressants to faster dementia progression, fractures, and mortality—raising urgent questions about misdiagnosis and medical harm.

sayerji.substack.com

 

[I M Dex]

In my experience and observation, the critical factor is the practitioner, more than the generic principles and techniques of any given therapy. And by that I mean the practitioner's natural feel and passion for the work. Even with as flawed and misdirecting a paradigm as Scientology, many of us had experienced one or two practitioners who did something special for us, and the same for any other means. Hubbard's claiming that "with in-tech training, anyone can be a good auditor" was the furthest thing from the truth, and I'm sure I'm not alone in having seen that approach comedic and/or tragic proportions. Just as in any other therapeutic approach, some people are clearly in the wrong line of work, and some are kind of magical.

 

[I M Dex]

In my experience and observation, the critical factor is the practitioner, more than the generic principles and techniques of any given therapy. And by that I mean the practitioner's natural feel and passion for the work. Even with as flawed and misdirecting a paradigm as Scientology, many of us had experienced one or two practitioners who did something special for us, and the same for any other means. Hubbard's claiming that "with in-tech training, anyone can be a good auditor" was the furthest thing from the truth, and I'm sure I'm not alone in having seen that approach comedic and/or tragic proportions. Just as in any other therapeutic approach, some people are clearly in the wrong line of work, and some are kind of magical.

Sorry for the typo, should be "I'm sure I'm not alone in having seen that approach result in fiascos of comedic and/or tragic proportions." I ran out of my supply of squirrel aftermarket anti-BT keyboard spray, I just put in a "subscribe and save" order on Amazon. You can't be too careful.

 

[Type4_PTS]

American Psychiatric Association are charlatans, expensive frauds, IMO.

This message board exists so we who have walked that "closely taped path" can share
our feeling about it. If it's addiction for a person, then it's addiction for that person.

Given some discussion in this thread about psych meds, I'm leaving this here. It is an interview with Mikhaila Peterson, Jordan Peterson's daughter. She provides a health update on her father (who is still in very bad shape), and also discusses severe injuries they both suffered coming off (or being on) psych drugs.