We do need to accommodate as much as possible to scientologists leaving. I know some will stay, but some will go. What a perfect time to discover what you've known all along.
Do you think people are starting to believe that Davey isn't delivering the "OMG amazing growth" that he claims he does?I get to talk with current scientologists quite a bit. There doesn't seem to be a current story to explain away the lack of people. Usually there is something, SMP starting up, new releases, etc. There isn't really a popular story that is the explanation for the lack of people. Of course, there is the covid, etc., but no real hope coming around the corner that keeps the flock motivated. At least none that I have heard of.
Doubtful. It won't be his fault.Do you think people are starting to believe that Davey isn't delivering the "OMG amazing growth" that he claims he does?
I wonder what people think nowadays. I am getting out of touch, in spite of seeing face to face many currently in. Quite a few going to flag for services. You would think that the failure of the ideal org evolution would be utterly apparent. You would think that most would believe that they were sold a bill of goods in regards to SMP. You would think many things. It's obviously failing.Do you think people are starting to believe that Davey isn't delivering the "OMG amazing growth" that he claims he does?
What made you curious and start looking it up on the Internet? Were there contradictions you saw after a while in Scientology that raised questions?I used to see binders with all kinds of letters from mayors and others offering keys to the city and PR crap like that. Then the IAS traveling circus would come to town with speakers talking about things like Criminon. It did sound pretty good. I didn’t find out that the cult wasn’t growing til I started reading stuff on the internet.
I actually didn’t have a clue of what I might see there. I was curious then found the websites etc really eye opening.What made you curious and start looking it up on the Internet? Were there contradictions you saw after a while in Scientology that raised questions?
They have all sorts of binders etc. designed to handle bpr and make the church look good. I think osa puts them together.I used to see binders with all kinds of letters from mayors and others offering keys to the city and PR crap like that. Then the IAS traveling circus would come to town with speakers talking about things like Criminon. It did sound pretty good. I didn’t find out that the cult wasn’t growing til I started reading stuff on the internet.
You cannot believe how bad it really was. What we put up with. I saw so many financial failures, and on the other hand successes. Some would bankrupt, others would kick ass. But it would not matter. Hardly anyone ever gives up on a reg cycle nowadays. It takes a lot. I should know.I simply can't imagine how anyone could put up with what must be constant non-stop regging.....
AND....regging for nothing...no courses.....no auditing.... But for a Building. Completely "out exchange..."
How in the heck can those still in put up with that?
How can they close their eyes to that?
I would like to indicate you didn't waste your time, you learned something. That can be better than being a member of the Fantastic Four. If you still like yourself after all that, then you didn't lose.Leaving is a complicated process mentally.
I, too, got some good things out of Scientology and it was a huge learning event, good and bad, in my life.
After the initial, very good results (for me) at the bottom of the Bridge, I realized that similar results did not happen further up.
I did my OT levels, became highly trained but kept realizing that there was an undercurrent of madness in the materials.
I started looking more and more, reading "forbidden" materials and realized that my perceptions of dishonesty and lies was correct.
There is no such thing as Clear or OT.
The whole enterprise is a reflection of Hubbard's insanity and he had the ability to take over your thinking and decision process and convince you that things existed that really didn't.
I left. And I was right.
Don't know why you wrote that in dog Latin, but a nice piece of work..
I like this thread.
If I had to offer one harmless little piece of advice to Scientologists who are flirting with the idea committing the "crime" of looking around the internet, it would be this.
BY HUBBARD'S OWN WORDS, SCIENTOLOGISTS SHOULD DEVOTE THEIR ENTIRE LIVES TO ACHIEVING "TOTAL FREEDOM": SO, YOU ARE A SCIENTOLOGIST. AND THEREFORE YOU HAVE INVESTED TIME AND MONEY TO MOVE ALONG THAT BRIDGE IN THE DIRECTION OF TOTAL FREEDOM. THUS, YOU HAVE ALREADY AQUIRED FOR YOURSELF SOME (NOT ALL) OF THAT TOTAL FREEDOM, RIGHT? OKAY, YOU EXCHANGED FOR & EARNED THAT FREEDOM, RIGHT? SO, WHY DON'T YOU USE SOME OF YOUR TOTAL FREEDOM BY FEELING "FREE" TO LOOK AT WHATEVER YOU WANT ON THE INTERNET? ISN'T FREEDOM SOMETHING YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO USE? IMAGINE EARNING DOLLARS AND HAVING THE FEELING THAT IT WAS A CRIME TO SPEND THEM. HERE IS THE TRUTH. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON THE INTERNET OR ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD THAT IT IS NOT OKAY TO LOOK AT. IF ANYONE HAS CONVINCED YOU THAT YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO LOOK, THEY ARE TRYING TO TELL YOU THAT TOTAL FREEDOM IS NOT TOTAL. AND THEY ARE INFORMING YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT FREE TO USE TO USE YOUR FREEDOM. IT EITHER IS OR IS AIN'T FREEDOM. YOU EITHER ARE FREE TO LOOK AT ANYTHING OR YOU AREN'T. SO HAVE SOME FUN AND LOOK AT EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN MOON & STARS. PEOPLE WHO WANT YOU TO BE AFRAID TO LOOK ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. IF EVEN LITTLE KIDS & BABIES FEEL FREE TO LOOK AT WHATEVER THEY WANT----YOU CAN TOO!
This is the only Harold post I will likely ever like.In the photo LRH is checking out a Honeywell Pentax, Spotmatic II camera with at least one Takumar lens and other accessories. The photo is said to be taken in 1972 or 1973 in the room LRH was renting in New York.
From Tony Ortega:
"Jim Dincalci has continued to be a valuable resource. We talk to him on occasion, and he provided Russell Miller with key information for his great biography of Hubbard, Bare-Faced Messiah. And it’s interesting to see him here, talking in particular about what it was like to live with Hubbard while the man was hiding out in Queens, New York from December 1972 to October 1973 while the yacht Apollo was in drydock back in Lisbon.
Dincalci gave up medical school to join Scientology, and ended up serving as Hubbard’s assistant medical officer on the Apollo as Hubbard ran Scientology from the ship in the Mediterranean, Atlantic, and Caribbean.
He relates a couple of Hubbard’s medical situations — and how it surprised him that the “enlightened being” who was master of “mass, energy, space, and time” needed painkillers and other medicines.
Like others, Dincalci found himself being screamed at by Hubbard, and he said that the man had a serious lack of self-esteem and assumed that everyone else was out to attack him.
Dincalci describes the December 1972 arrival in New York, which is also described in Miller’s Bare-Faced Messiah. Hubbard was stopped in customs with about $100,000 in various currencies. In the book, Dincalci explained that a customs agent who recognized Hubbard was a fan of his fiction and let him enter the country with the money.
Hubbard had been convicted of fraud in France, and while French agents were looking for him in Morocco and Portugal, he hid out with Dincalci and a bodyguard in Queens, spending most of his time watching television. (He hadn’t been in the US in about 14 years, and he was fascinated by how much had changed between 1959 and 1973.)
Dincalci says on a typical day, Hubbard would tell stories from his past lives, or told tall tales from his war years. And there was the fun canard that his pre-Dianetics manuscript, “Excalibur,” had been stolen by the Russians. Dincalci seems to get a kick out of that one.
The most important thing Hubbard got done during his months in Queens was writing up the plan for the Snow White Program, which he finished in April. Within a few years, his “Guardian’s Office,” following those instructions, would be well into the single largest infiltration of the US federal government in this country’s history.
But Dincalci says that Hubbard was depressed, and paranoid, and he never exhibited the traits of being “Clear.” Hubbard admitted to him that he’d never been exteriorized — out of his body, the hallmark of an upper-level Scientologist — during the nine years they knew each other.
He also describes Hubbard’s 1974 motorcycle accident in the Canary Islands after returning to the ship. Hubbard cracked a couple of ribs, and other witnesses, like Kima Douglas, his nurse, say Hubbard was never the same after that.
Give it a look and let us know what other details you find interesting…"
More from Tony Ortega:
"Levin had become well known to Scientologists in 1968 when he and his band People! — made up of all Scientologists — had a hit record, “I Love You.” In 1969, the group joined the Sea Org after getting a handwritten note from Hubbard approving the idea. “We were the first entertainers in the Sea Org,” Robbie tells us. In the mid-1970s, Levin traded music for his burgeoning clothing business, and by 1980, he had quietly left the church when Kima came to stay with him.
She told him that in 1975 Hubbard had suffered a pulmonary embolism in Curaçao and had been taken to a hospital, and then was very sick again at La Quinta, California in 1977 but he made her promise not to call an ambulance. Dincalci and Kima had been caring for him for years, but neither of them had medical degrees. So she called in a physician who was a Scientologist, Gene Denk, who would treat Hubbard for the rest of his life.
Levin says Kima told him that Denk gave Hubbard several pads of blank prescriptions that he’d pre-signed. “Hubbard was self-prescribing drugs for himself. A lot were oral, but some were by needle,” Levin says Kima told him. “Kima was afraid to talk about it because they were declaring people,” he says, referring to Scientology’s version of excommunication, “declaring” someone a “suppressive person.” She told Levin that Hubbard was dying. “He was so wacked out because of all the drugs. He’s going to die soon, and guess who’s going to take the fall,” she told him.
Dincalci says that’s what he saw, too.
“Yes, Denk pre-signed the pads,” he says. “I would write them up and go get them.”
Dincalci says that during the Gerry Armstrong litigation in 1983, he was deposed by church attorneys, who asked him about the allegation. “I said, ‘I still have those pads from Denk,’ and then the deposition was over. They didn’t want to hear anymore,” he says.