Danny Masterson asks for trial delay because of Rick Caruso's anti-Scientology ads

[HelluvaHoax!]

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Yeah, they hate destroying documents but when it is the "greatest good" they'll destroy documents. Ask Marty Rathbun about that.

Excellent point.

Herald Tribune Link:​

The ex-official and church defector, Marty Rathbun, had for years insisted the church did nothing wrong in handling the case of Lisa McPherson's death on Dec. 5, 1995. But he recently told the St. Petersburg Times the church botched the woman's case from the start. The church dismisses Rathbun as a bitter former member who inflated his importance. The church said he had been demoted in 2003; he left in 2004.​

​

Rathbun said he initially wanted to go to the state attorney's office after the 36-year-old's death, but he instead followed the church's culture to never admit fault. He said he and others removed papers from McPherson's files, including a caretaker's opinion that the situation was out of control and the patient needed a doctor.​

​

"I said, 'Lose 'em,' and walked out of the room," Rathbun told the newspaper.​

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Let's review, shall we?

At first, Rathbun swore "the church did nothing wrong".​

​

Then, he swore he intended to "go to the state attorney's offices"​

​

Then he swore to uphold the cult mandate to "never admit fault".​

​

Later, he decided to "destroy incriminating evidence, destroy more incriminating ​

evidence and make others destroy incriminating evidence".​

With all those ever-shifting deceptions and lies, does anyone actually believe that he was planning to turn states witness and take the evidence to the state attorney's offices?

Rathbun apparently suffers from CCBS. Chronic Cult Bullshit Syndrome. Even after he supposedly left the cult, he continued the same lying, double-lying and double-crossing treachery:

"Hey guys, I left the Church of Scientology!"

"Hey guys, I am delivering the tech up to OT VII now as an Indie!"

"Hey guys, I am now King of the standard KSW Indies, everyone else is a punk!"

"Hey guys, I am now suing the COS and I'll never give up
until I win, but it's never been about the money!"

"Hey guys, I just dropped my lawsuit vs. the COS for no reason!"

"Hey guys, I am now doing dead-agent and hate videos for the COS against their enemies!"

"Hey guys, I got paid a ton of money from the COS for
flipping--but like I said, it's never been about the money!"

---​

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

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That they haven't thrown Masterson under the bus years ago is telling. Maybe Masterson agreed not to write a tell-all book upon his conviction if Scientology provided for his legal defense.

Aside from any legal issues that Scientology may or may not have if the general public became aware that Scientology protects sexual predators, in effect enabling them to go out and continue their predatory behavior this would be the mother of all PR flaps, sending their popularity into lowest-ever territory. Maybe this kind of thing along with the human trafficking and other cases could be enough to even get the feds interested in reviewing their tax exemption. I doubt it but am fine being wrong about that issue.

The scandal doesn't necessarily have to shut the cult down to be considered a monumental achievement towards ending the cult's 72 year crusade of fraud & thuggery.

Anything that makes Scientology and Scientologists radioactively repulsive to sane people is a huge win.

Jeez, I wonder why Scientology never publishes these OT wins in Advance! magazine? Seems like religious discrimination! lol

..

 

[SuperstarNeilC]

 

[ILove2Lurk]

I bet that all of Masterson's folders have long ago been confiscated by OSA and that those folders have long since been shredded "lost". From the perspective of the CoS it is the greatest good to withhold the contents of those folders from the court.

Photo captured one evening outside AOLA.
What the hell is going on here?



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[Karakorum]

That they haven't thrown Masterson under the bus years ago is telling. Maybe Masterson agreed not to write a tell-all book upon his conviction if Scientology provided for his legal defense.

Exactly.

My first thought after I heard about this affair was: "Why didn't scn just declare him and cut all ties at the first sign of trouble?"

Still boggles my mind, but my guess is that he's too well connected and they decided they don't want to send a message to their celebrities: "Hey, we'll cut you loose at the first sign of trouble".

I assume the other part of the answer was just hubris. They thought they would be able to squash this in the bud, silence or pay off everyone.

 

[Karakorum]

In other rulings, the prosecution will be allowed to ask Jane Doe 2 about what happened when she went to Scientology with a previous sexual assault (but not details of the assault itself).

Potentially, this could be massive radioactive black PR for the Co$.
Imagine that this would prove not only that Co$ failed to do the right thing in a high profile celebrity case, but if it turns out they also failed to do the right thing in some previous issue with "unimportant" people? That could be used to prove there was a pervasive pattern of hiding abuse, silencing witnesses and blaming the victims.

Catholich church pedo scandal level black PR.

Masterson says Leah Remini is masterminding the case !

If Remini is 'masterminding' a legal case, then I wouldn't be all that worried in Masterson's shoes. I'd be far, FAR more worried if it was Mike Rinder.

If I was filing a lawsuit against the Co$ or any of their celebrities and I could choose 1 critic to help me, I'd go with Mike Rinder. No brainer decision imho.

 

[onceuponatime]

I'm certainly not an expert on this arcane area of legal privileges, but here's my best guess:

(you posted): "Can't see any sort of Religious Protection as to any Courses or Training....or perhaps any Ethics Handling....or perhaps even " I'm not Auditing you" False Purpose Rundowns....the the Scientology required the Plaintiffs to do and pay for..."​

Keeping in mind that in a Catholic Church the confession is also not an ethics handling, training or metered auditing procedure, it would seem that the simple act of "CONFESSING" is what is protected, not the manner in which the confession is solicited. Ergo, if someone "CONFESSES" in a Scientology Org, it really wouldn't make any difference if they did so in an auditing session, a sec check, an ethics course or as part of an ethics handling. I believe the COS could easily invoke priest-penitent privilege under virtually any scenario where a "Scientology Minister" (or even a Volunteer Minister who has never done the minister's course) is "handling" someone.

(you posted): "Plus.....with all the Lawyers that Danny has had on this case.....each one most likely had Private Eyes...and such that could potentially break down...under the right circumstances..."​

It would be expected that lawyers would invoke a parallel "lawyer/client privilege" and remain silent under any questioning, interrogatories or solicitations for information about Masterson.

I wonder if some of the prosecution's subpoenaed witnesses (who are Scientologists) have been coached by OSA to avoid answering questions by invoking priest-penitent privilege, which sounds so much theta to the jury than repeatedly stonewalling with: "I refuse to answer on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me". LOL

..

This is definitely outside my areas of expertise, but I think there are some major differences between typical priest/penitent privileged info and the way it's practiced by Scientology. My understanding is that with a typical confession there's no record, it's just between the confessor and the priest. Scientology obviously keeps written records of everything (often videos as well) so this is already a pretty big departure, then you also have the fact that the info from sessions can and does get passed on to others, I think this could come back to bite them. PC tells his auditor some overt, auditor writes it down and it's only seen by auditor and C/S, I think this is fine as far as priest/penitent. Auditor then goes and writes a KR to HCO based on what came up, I think you are starting to get in questionable territory, even if he labels it non-actionable or is writing it on someone other than the PC. I also don't think you can just get away with saying every staff member is a priest, if the reg finds out session data that makes it hard to protect the session data as privileged info, in my opinion.

Simply put, my understanding is that there are two factors that keep it privileged, the fact that it is a confession and that it is between the confessor and the priest. The priest then goes and tells someone else what was confessed, all of a sudden that is no longer privileged information. It comes out that tons of people had access to the folders and were looking at "privileged" information, I think it's hard to argue it's privileged information. I also don't think ethics handlings, etc. have the same protection as an auditing session, an ethics program or KR is nothing like a confession.

Of course I'm sure Scientology will say everything is protected and argue they don't have to give up anything, we'll have to see how it plays out. As I said, I'm not an expert, this is just my limited non-legal understanding of things.

I'll add that I think they would be silly to try to destroy evidence at this point. The gaping holes would be obvious and then they'd be in even more trouble. Who knows, maybe the evidence is so damning that they decide it's worth the risk. Dangerous times for Scientology.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

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/
Simply put, my understanding is that there are two factors that keep it privileged, the fact that it is a confession and that it is between the confessor and the priest. The priest then goes and tells someone else what was confessed, all of a sudden that is no longer privileged information.
.

Scientology can handle that! LOL

Because, in Scientology everyone is a minister. Everyone I tell ya!

DEFENSE ATTORNEY
So, you have testified that for 19 years you were the
gardener who maintained the outdoor landscaping at
at the Celebrity Center and you were stationed outside
the building at all times. However you also testified today
that you read Danny Masterson's O/W writeup that was
shown to you by the Ethics Officer. How is it that you were
allowed to see his confessions. You are not a priest are you?

SECURITY GUARD
No.

DEFENSE ATTORNEY
Then you cannot claim priest-penitent privilege can you?

SECURITY GUARD
Yes, I can. Because I am a pastor. Priest-Pastor. Pastor-Minister.
You can look it up in a thesaurus and use it in sentenced.

DEFENSE ATTORNEY
But earlier you testified that you were a minister.

SECURITY GUARD
Minister-Pastor. Pastor-Minister.
You can look it up now and borrow my demo kit.

DEFENSE ATTORNEY
That's all fine and good, but you also testified that you
never completed the Scientology Minister's Course. So
you were never really a minister, right?

SECURITY GUARD
Wrong. There are different kinds of minister in the Church of
Scientology. I was a Volunteer Minister and didn't need to
do any courses. I only had to wear a yellow
raincoat with the initials "VM" on it.


...
​

 

[mimsey borogrove]

Exactly.

My first thought after I heard about this affair was: "Why didn't scn just declare him and cut all ties at the first sign of trouble?"

Still boggles my mind, but my guess is that he's too well connected and they decided they don't want to send a message to their celebrities: "Hey, we'll cut you loose at the first sign of trouble".

I assume the other part of the answer was just hubris. They thought they would be able to squash this in the bud, silence or pay off everyone.

Ahem. I think, he said Nope, didn't rape, F/Ned the sec check questions, and they bought it, hook line and sinker, and went with this OL who no doubt has donoed quite well. I wonder how many new faces there are on the RPF these days?

Oopsie!

Mimsey

 

[onceuponatime]

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Scientology can handle that! LOL

Because, in Scientology everyone is a minister. Everyone I tell ya!

DEFENSE ATTORNEY
So, you have testified that for 19 years you were the
gardener who maintained the outdoor landscaping at
at the Celebrity Center and you were stationed outside
the building at all times. However you also testified today
that you read Danny Masterson's O/W writeup that was
shown to you by the Ethics Officer. How is it that you were
allowed to see his confessions. You are not a priest are you?

SECURITY GUARD
No.

DEFENSE ATTORNEY
Then you cannot claim priest-penitent privilege can you?

SECURITY GUARD
Yes, I can. Because I am a pastor. Priest-Pastor. Pastor-Minister.
You can look it up in a thesaurus and use it in sentenced.

DEFENSE ATTORNEY
But earlier you testified that you were a minister.

SECURITY GUARD
Minister-Pastor. Pastor-Minister.
You can look it up now and borrow my demo kit.

DEFENSE ATTORNEY
That's all fine and good, but you also testified that you
never completed the Scientology Minister's Course. So
you were never really a minister, right?

SECURITY GUARD
Wrong. There are different kinds of minister in the Church of
Scientology. I was a Volunteer Minister and didn't need to
do any courses. I only had to wear a yellow
raincoat with the initials "VM" on it.


...
​

But is that priest to priest communication privileged? I'm not sure. Confessor to priest, that's fine, but when that priest goes on reporting it to others, even other priests, and it gets used in other ways, I'm not so sure.

Ahem. I think, he said Nope, didn't rape, F/Ned the sec check questions, and they bought it, hook line and sinker, and went with this OL who no doubt has donoed quite well. I wonder how many new faces there are on the RPF these days?

Oopsie!

Mimsey

I doubt the fact that he F/Ned a few Sec-Check questions would sway any of the terminals involved in any investigation/cover up. It's obviously not openly spoken about but many of the more experienced terminals have very little faith in the e-meter. He can F/N all he wants, they will just say he's low responsibility and keep asking questions until something gives.

One other thing that has always made me think Scientology knows there's some truth to the claims, DM never did the OT levels, he's been stuck at Clear. I think with all of this stuff they decided he was too high of a risk to let on the OT levels. I'll be very interested to see everything that comes to light during the trial and what is (and isn't) used as evidence.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

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I am fascinated to learn what other WITNESSES the prosecution is planning to call to expose the serial rapes.

I know the celebrity culture in Scientology, audited famous celebrities, VIPs et al. I also know the manic secrecy of Scientology management when there is a scandal and all the iron gates slam down over the windows, doors and portals into the cult. What always comes to mind is phone calls where someone on the other end of the line said to me the often repeated admonition: "This is not something that should be communicated on a phone line".

WHO SAYS THAT KIND OF THING OTHER THAN CRIMINALS, MAFIA & TERRORISTS?​

I'll offer an opinion here that I would bet ANY amount of money on: There is no doubt in my mind that (in addition to Celebrity/OSA staff members) the circle of friends surrounding Masterson has multiple cult celebrities/friends who know exactly what went down. And some of those people know full well about the serial sexual abuse and the coverups—because they willingly participated and facilitated the obstruction of justice.

Now those celebrities, wannabe celebrities and friends have quite a predicament. If they testify truthfully they are labeled a "rat" and declared SP and lose their friends, family and Scientology financial/career network. However, if they lie (and are caught) they can face severe criminal liabilities for perjury--as well as the worst PR event in their life where they are very publicly exposed as a liar who lies to protect rapists. Not good.

I am waiting to find out if there are not a few or even one (1) Scientologist who will come forward and help those rape victims seek justice. I would be shocked if most Scientologists would not do "the greatest good" which would be to protect the COS by any means possible. If asked why they did it, the response would be some blithe spin about how "nobody really knows if he did it other than Danny and the girl" or even "Hey, if they did get raped, it's only a body and all beings have been raped and raped others billions of times on the whole track".

And yes, Scientology is that crazy.

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[Enthetan]

I am seeing other search results where the priest chose martyrdom rather than break his sacred oath to the Catholic Church. In effect, they willingly suffered the sanctions or penalties imposed by the judge for refusal to respond.

You are correct. Canon Law completely forbids it

Code of Canon Law - Book IV - Function of the Church Liber (Cann. 959-997)

Code of Canon Law - Book IV - Function of the Church Liber - IV. De Ecclesiae munere sanctificandi (Cann. 959-997)

www.vatican.va

And this has been recognized by US law for a long time

Breaking Faith – Mark David Hall

Religious liberty is not a trump card that wins every time, but interference with clergy-penitent privilege will do no good and may produce real harm.

lawliberty.org

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BUT (and this is a critical part) this applies when the priest is forbidden to reveal the info to anyone under any circumstances. Not even if the penitent has left the Church. Not even if he is now excommunicated. Not even if the penitent is now an avowed and open enemy of the Church.

The big, gaping, hole in this for Scientology is that they routinely violate their own confidentiality doctrine when it suits them, notably in SP Declare orders, or otherwise when they wish to disaffect people from the target.

I know a woman, offloaded from the Sea Org, whose husband was induced to leave her and remain in the SO, by revealing to him certain items from her past from her session info.

This greatly weakens any assertion of "sacredness" on their part.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I know a woman, offloaded from the Sea Org, whose husband was induced to leave her and remain in the SO, by revealing to him certain items from her past from her session info.

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I am left wondering if it would be a violation of priest-penitent privilege if a Scientology minister auditing John Travolta revealed to John that he is gay. LOL

Will I be losing my eternity for that comment? Just trying to lighten up the party a little, folks, nothing personal about John, I liked the dude when i met him.

..

 

[mimsey borogrove]

But is that priest to priest communication privileged? I'm not sure. Confessor to priest, that's fine, but when that priest goes on reporting it to others, even other priests, and it gets used in other ways, I'm not so sure.

One other thing that has always made me think Scientology knows there's some truth to the claims, DM never did the OT levels, he's been stuck at Clear. I think with all of this stuff they decided he was too high of a risk to let on the OT levels. I'll be very interested to see everything that comes to light during the trial and what is (and isn't) used as evidence.

Stuck at clear? You know he's seen all the ot materials? Been in the OT course room, watches OT reviews on video in the HGC. He has written RTC Auditing advices to OT 7 solo auditors (I have read one of them) I think rather than being stuck, he's believes he's above being audited by any auditor, none have any altitude over him. Other than perhaps being buddies with Tom Cruise, he, much like Hubbard, is the only one. While Hubbard would get audited by others, he would rip any auditor that made a mistake on him. Lucy Malzaric comes to mind, for interpreting a read ( or something like that) and when he tore into MSH after reading an fes by Otto Roos showing R/Ses she found on him.

Mimsey

 

[mimsey borogrove]

"While Hubbard would get audited by others, he would rip any auditor that made a mistake on him. Lucy Malzaric comes to mind, for interpreting a read ( or something like that) and when he tore into MSH after reading an fes by Otto Roos showing R/Ses she found on him."

This is the conundrum with calling Scientology a scam - he believed in the tech till the end ( if Sarge is to be believed.)

Mimsey

 

[Karakorum]

But is that priest to priest communication privileged? I'm not sure. Confessor to priest, that's fine, but when that priest goes on reporting it to others, even other priests, and it gets used in other ways, I'm not so sure.

In the catholic church doctrine, there is mandatory internal escalation of some crimes. I do not know the full list, but murder for sure is one of them. If a dudette confesses to murder to a parish priest, that priest cannot do anything himself when murder is involved, not even absolve sins. He is doctrinaly obliged to go to his bishop, tell him what happened and then the bishop will decide what to do next.
That's still under priest-penitent, even if the bishop further "escalates" the case to the apostolic nuncio, the arch-bishop or whoever else above him in the church hierarchy.

But if said parish priest would just go and tell his fellow parish priest? That'd be a violation of the priest/penitent clause.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Stuck at clear? You know he's seen all the ot materials? Been in the OT course room, watches OT reviews on video in the HGC. He has written RTC Auditing advices to OT 7 solo auditors (I have read one of them) I think rather than being stuck, he's believes he's above being audited by any auditor, none have any altitude over him. Other than perhaps being buddies with Tom Cruise, he, much like Hubbard, is the only one. While Hubbard would get audited by others, he would rip any auditor that made a mistake on him. Lucy Malzaric comes to mind, for interpreting a read ( or something like that) and when he tore into MSH after reading an fes by Otto Roos showing R/Ses she found on him.

Mimsey

Wrong DM. DM = Danny in that post.

 

[mimsey borogrove]

Wrong DM. DM = Danny in that post.

Oy vey. My bad. Mimsey

 

[Karakorum]

DM and DM... Coincidence? I don't think so. It is a conspiracy by the 4th invader force no doubt.

 

[SuperstarNeilC]