Auditing effectiveness...Does it really work?

[No One]

@Mao
It's a double bind. The ultimate catch 22.

If your gains are not permanent (and they will not be, guaranteed) YOU are the SP or are PTS and will have to handle / recruit or disconnect from the person(s) telling you it's bad, a cult, etc..

It's NEVER from the lack of efficacy of the technology or process. (so it's written).

It works on EVERYONE the SAME, except for those it doesn't, and it's their fault that it doesn't, it is YOUR fault that it doesn't. You can't talk about it, however, or compare because that is also against the rules.

If you try it, good luck to you. Do not try it. I would RUN as fast and as far away as possible; close, lock and bar the doors and windows. Put caulking and sealing foam in the cracks.

Oh yea, last thing.. the ONE thing (Abuse) I wanted to have addressed when I started (as a child) was NEVER addressed. (It didn't read on their E-meter so it wasn't taken up - classic bait and switch).

P.S. I have Anxiety and Fibro along with some other challenges.

I 100% believe that many of my current problems were CAUSED BY and came from the stress of working as a staff member and sea org member in the 'Church'.

I have been out for more than a decade and I am still fucked up. Better off but fucked up.

-No One

 

[He-man]

All I am saying is I find it interesting that someone posted a question on this board regarding Dianetics, you said what you said in #10 above, and started a thread on the board ostensibly selling your services.

It happened on the old board as well. Whenever someone would post some interest, a free zooner would appear, it was like walking around in Pokemon world!

A part of me believes it's predatory. Another part of me think that, they themselves at least, think that they are genuinely trying to help.

Thanks for calling it out.

 

[freethinker]

I've seen improvements that at least seemed to be permanent, and in my days as a Scientology/Dianetics auditor, I'd often felt frustration seeing "PC's" repeatedly start their sessions complaining about the same sort of issues showing up to be "keyed out" with rudiments, rather then being the subject taken up for the session ("keep them moving 'up' the grade chart"). But that "fabled high", I believe, is the gimmick that kept people coming back for more. I think that as a sensation it can be as addictive as any other means of attaining a "high", and Hubbard cleverly had us all falsely equating that sensation with meaningful spiritual progress, despite little or no change in our day to day lives. One of my favorite expressions, and, I think a truer measure" "If you think you're enlightened, try spending some time around your family".

Why not skip the rudiments and ask them if they want to have a session on it? Why is it always assumed that something has to be gotten out of the way before you audit. The man or woman is there sitting in the chair, it should be obvious they showed up to get something handled. If rudiments takes the pressure off but inhibits auditing then what good are rudiments? Isn't auditing supposed to address these things? Seems to me that rudiments as you described it sets up an inauditable PC because now he as no attention on the problems he has. Seems bass ackwards. maybe rudementas should be flown after a session to make sure nothing was left unhandled from the session, which would make more sense. maybe something is unflat or auditing stirred something else.

Of course I saying this like the stuff actually worked but it doesn't really produce results. It's like coffee in the morning to get you going but you need more later unless you drink it for the taste like I do.

 

[freethinker]

You can 't overlook the reality that people will lie to themselves about their wins. You can get along pretty well sometimes l lieing to others but when you lie to yourself about Scn you have crossed the Rubicon.

I guess they just need more auditing. Can you say non confront.

This is a major factor in Scientology. Not winning is frowned upon so people keep it to themselves when they are not getting what they thought they should. They doubly keep it under wraps because they know they will be sent to the registrar which has become the real source of their problems. Scientologists refuse to admit they are losing until they hit the bottom.

 

[PirateAndBum]

All I'm saying is that you paint the picture that you find self-serving, to justify your own bias. And you are dead wrong. I haven't started any thread, here, at least so far. I replied on an existing thread posted by someone else. I'm not even an advocate of Scientology or Dianetics, just giving what is for me a fair assessment. I have as much right as anyone else here to share my opinion, whether you like it or not. As I said, I joined the board in response to a posting of my video and some kind words said about me. You could have private messaged me and we could have had a dialog easily enough if you were asking instead of asserting, but you wanted to put on a show to "take me down". I'm proud of my work, I have nothing to apologize for, and if you take offense at something being posted that might interest people in my services, why don't you take it up with the person who posted my video when I wasn't a member.

It happened on the old board as well. Whenever someone would post some interest, a free zooner would appear, it was like walking around in Pokemon world!

A part of me believes it's predatory. Another part of me think that, they themselves at least, think that they are genuinely trying to help.

Thanks for calling it out.

Dex is welcome here. I didn't see him trying to sell his services. He's entitled to his views as is everyone else.

As to the OP, if you are interested in alternative stuff then you'd be better off trying someone like Dex than going to a scientologist. Stay very far away from co$, they are not interested in healing people.

I would recommend you seek professional mental health services.

 

[Pseudonym]

Dex is welcome here. I didn't see him trying to sell his services. He's entitled to his views as is everyone else.

As to the OP, if you are interested in alternative stuff then you'd be better off trying someone like Dex than going to a scientologist. Stay very far away from co$, they are not interested in healing people.

I would recommend you seek professional mental health services.

College educated licensed mental health professional therapists are the best option for seeking helpful guiding therapy. Scientology and dianetics and idenics and knowledgism and trom and the free zone are rubbish.

 

[He-man]

Dex is welcome here. I didn't see him trying to sell his services. He's entitled to his views as is everyone else.

I agree with you 100% that Dex is entitled to his opinion, as is anyone...

...and there are better ways, but if you really want to experience it, you're better of with one of the better independent ("freezone") practitioners, not connected to the "Church" of Scientology. Look for one who isn't raging against other practitioners, and isn't too pushy, or unrealistic in what they expect of you in return. Also, there are a good number of folks, like myself, who evolved beyond their Scientology experience, and have something safer and better to offer. Use your search engine and shop around

...but if that isn't "trying to sell his service", or as I like to put it, predatory stalking and promoting yourself as a mental health practitioner when you're really only into the mambo jumbo but not the time and effort to go to University, I don't know what is.

 

[Dex G]

I agree with you 100% that Dex is entitled to his opinion, as is anyone...



...but if that isn't "trying to sell his service", or as I like to put it, predatory stalking and promoting yourself as a mental health practitioner when you're really only into the mambo jumbo but not the time and effort to go to University, I don't know what is.

I take exception to such nasty, moronic, irresponsible character assassination. You don't know the first thing about me. I take great pride and pleasure in making a positive difference in people's lives, and this has always been my path and my passion. Having watched my son take his last breath and die of cancer has given me an appreciation of the pain people go through, and inspired me to redouble my efforts to help people to find relief from their own traumas. I have helped war veterans to recover from PTSD, I have helped people to recover from horrific childhoods, from abuse in Scientology, from various living nightmares, and I take great satisfaction and pride in what I do. I routinely hear from those I've worked with, that years after our sessions, they're still enjoying the changes I've helped them to make in their lives.
Your willfully ignorant cheap shot tells nothing substantial about me, but speaks volumes about the way you enjoy being. If anyone is acting like a predator here its you. Stalk and troll me all you want, but I will hold you accountable.

 

[Dotey OT]

This is a major factor in Scientology. Not winning is frowned upon so people keep it to themselves when they are not getting what they thought they should. They doubly keep it under wraps because they know they will be sent to the registrar which has become the real source of their problems. Scientologists refuse to admit they are losing until they hit the bottom.

Very true. I remember being "gung ho" but having to come up with something to say on a success story. I did a Flag only rundown, Profession Intensive. At the end, I was asked to write a success and I was "meh". Made to go back in and get off O/W's. Then changed up the questions a little and revisited the RD. In the end, had to make up a win in order to NOT go back in and do ruds again.

Funny thing about those "wins", I knew people that bragged about their wins, like "look at me and what I got out of this" sort of stuff. Was a bit strained back then, now I SEE THE LIGHT!!!

 

[Dex G]

What was always funny to me was all the "success stories" that expressed nothing more than "I finally finished this level"

 

[He-man]

I take exception to such nasty, moronic, irresponsible character assassination. You don't know the first thing about me. I take great pride and pleasure in making a positive difference in people's lives, and this has always been my path and my passion. Having watched my son take his last breath and die of cancer has given me an appreciation of the pain people go through, and inspired me to redouble my efforts to help people to find relief from their own traumas. I have helped war veterans to recover from PTSD, I have helped people to recover from horrific childhoods, from abuse in Scientology, from various living nightmares, and I take great satisfaction and pride in what I do. I routinely hear from those I've worked with, that years after our sessions, they're still enjoying the changes I've helped them to make in their lives.
Your willfully ignorant cheap shot tells nothing substantial about me, but speaks volumes about the way you enjoy being. If anyone is acting like a predator here its you. Stalk and troll me all you want, but I will hold you accountable.

That's OK Dex, hold me accountable, I don't mind. I'm so sorry to hear about your son.

I don't know you privately if that is what you mean, but I have watched some of your videos(as far as I could and had interest) and remember you from back on the old forum. Hi!

Wanting to help people, and dealing in Scientology(or whatever it's supposed to have been evolved to for you) is something I can understand, but really, it does put you in the same basket as LRH or whoever else there is trying to sell themselves off as a "great helper of society".

For me that is you trying to do things you're not qualified to do. Promoting yourself in that way, here, is something I consider to be predatory. Now I do understand if you take offense, I would too I guess, if someone called me on that, but it is what it is, no point calling a bush a snake and all that Jazz.

You did write that,

Also, there are a good number of folks, like myself, who evolved beyond their Scientology experience, and have something safer and better to offer. Use your search engine and shop around

So my direct question is, did you go to University/College like the rest of the mender benders who have a licence to practice? Can you point me in the general direction of your dissertation? Is it published?

Do you see my point?

Maybe I'm wrong and you do have a license to practice, what do I know, I haven't heard much of you the last five years, but I kinda think you'd say something to that effect if you had, no?

Kind regards
He-man

 

[Dex G]

That's OK Dex, hold me accountable, I don't mind. I'm so sorry to hear about your son.

I don't know you privately if that is what you mean, but I have watched some of your videos(as far as I could and had interest) and remember you from back on the old forum. Hi!

Wanting to help people, and dealing in Scientology(or whatever it's supposed to have been evolved to for you) is something I can understand, but really, it does put you in the same basket as LRH or whoever else there is trying to sell themselves off as a "great helper of society".

For me that is you trying to do things you're not qualified to do. Promoting yourself in that way, here, is something I consider to be predatory. Now I do understand if you take offense, I would too I guess, if someone called me on that, but it is what it is, no point calling a bush a snake and all that Jazz.

You did write that, So my direct question is, did you go to University/College like the rest of the mender benders who have a licence to practice? Can you point me in the general direction of your dissertation? Is it published?

Do you see my point?

Maybe I'm wrong and you do have a license to practice, what do I know, I haven't heard much of you the last five years, but I kinda think you'd say something to that effect if you had, no?

Kind regards
He-man

I do appreciate your response, but you overstep. And you're taking what I said the wrong way. I advised that this person do their own search; I pointedly did not suggest that they select me. And there are millions of counselors, life coaches, etc, who, like me, have no university accreditations, and some of us, me included, are doing very good work. And of course, there are many university accredited therapists who are incompetent, so your criteria, while satisfactory for you, is far from fair in generically evaluating every practitioner. I'm actually very, very good, not that you or anyone in particular has to take my word for that, but I don't take having participants trusting in me lightly. I have to feel good about what I'm doing, and be good at it, and I do, and am.

 

[He-man]

I do appreciate your response, but you overstep. And you're taking what I said the wrong way. I advised that this person do their own search; I pointedly did not suggest that they select me. And there are millions of counselors, life coaches, etc, who, like me, have no university accreditations, and some of us, me included, are doing very good work. And of course, there are many university accredited therapists who are incompetent, so your criteria, while satisfactory for you, is far from fair in generically evaluating every practitioner. I'm actually very, very good, not that you or anyone in particular has to take my word for that, but I don't take having participants trusting in me lightly. I have to feel good about what I'm doing, and be good at it, and I do, and am.

I don't belive that I do overstep Dex.

For instance, I do consider it to be very classic in all forms of "Scientology" to be putting the responsibility of the choice into the the person "you advised", merely giving the information of those...

Also, there are a good number of folks, like myself, who evolved beyond their Scientology experience, and have something safer and better to offer. Use your search engine and shop around

... That is a promotional piece. We both know you are savvy enough not to promote yourself directly. Preempting doesn't change it. The whole "They pulled it in" argument is comic in a sense.

Auditing isn't coaching, nor is it counseling, we both know that.

My criteria is fare more fair then what you are selling, pieces of made up psycho therapy from one of the greatest con men who lived during the previous century. Call it therapy, call it what you want, If you're promoting Scientology, Dexter home brew version, please don't. Please accept that there is another dimension to this story and that is that there are victims of Scientology and its so called "tech". Promoting that "tech" here, is predatory.

 

[Pseudonym]

In my experience, it tends to be "hit or miss", some benefits, some disappointments, you have to maintain your own perspective, not submit to peer pressure and indoctrinations; the moment you feel any degree of fear of being treated badly for being out of step with the system, it's time to distance yourself to see the big picture. It doesn't live up to the hype in general, and contrary to the indoctrination, that's because it isn't perfect, and it isn't your fault. Most of us who have invested much time, energy and money into it eventually felt used and lied to, and were, which is not to say that there weren't any beneficial things. I can't endorse walking into the organization, and there are better ways, but if you really want to experience it, you're better of with one of the better independent ("freezone") practitioners, not connected to the "Church" of Scientology. Look for one who isn't raging against other practitioners, and isn't too pushy, or unrealistic in what they expect of you in return. Also, there are a good number of folks, like myself, who evolved beyond their Scientology experience, and have something safer and better to offer. Use your search engine and shop around

If you have evolved beyond scientology why are you recommending the free zone to a total stranger on the internet? In case the OP isn't aware the free zone is ksw scientologist hubbardites still caught up in hubbard's cult. Do you think pointing a stranger you know nothing about in that direction is a morally responsible decision?

Do you have any verifiable qualifications in the mental health field so people can do their due diligence?

 

[Dex G]

I don't belive that I do overstep Dex.

For instance, I do consider it to be very classic in all forms of "Scientology" to be putting the responsibility of the choice into the the person "you advised", merely giving the information of those... ... That is a promotional piece. We both know you are savvy enough not to promote yourself directly. Preempting doesn't change it. The whole "They pulled it in" argument is comic in a sense.

Auditing isn't coaching, nor is it counseling, we both know that.

My criteria is fare more fair then what you are selling, pieces of made up psycho therapy from one of the greatest con men who lived during the previous century. Call it therapy, call it what you want, If you're promoting Scientology, Dexter home brew version, please don't. Please accept that there is another dimension to this story and that is that there are victims of Scientology and its so called "tech". Promoting that "tech" here, is predatory.

I'm not a Scientologist. I don't do Scientology. Had you looked at any of my videos made over the past few years, or even what's been posted in this forum, you might know that. Nor is it "Scientology home brew", and I'll appreciate your not referring to my practice that way. As a matter of fact, I will be making another live TV appearance tomorrow, focused on my criticism of Scientology; I'd provide the information on how to watch the program, but you likely would only seize on the opportunity to brand that as "self-promotion".
I haven't the slightest idea of what you mean by "they pulled it in" in relation to anything I've said. Clarify?
And as to your saying " That is a promotional piece. We both know you are savvy enough not to promote yourself directly. Preempting doesn't change it.", I have to call bullshit on that. 100% false accusation. Period. You demonstrate your bias in saying that.

 

[He-man]

I'm not a Scientologist. I don't do Scientology. Had you looked at any of my videos made over the past few years, or even what's been posted in this forum, you might know that. Nor is it "Scientology home brew", and I'll appreciate your not referring to my practice that way. As a matter of fact, I will be making another live TV appearance tomorrow, focused on my criticism of Scientology; I'd provide the information on how to watch the program, but you likely would only seize on the opportunity to brand that as "self-promotion".
I haven't the slightest idea of what you mean by "they pulled it in" in relation to anything I've said. Clarify?
And as to your saying " That is a promotional piece. We both know you are savvy enough not to promote yourself directly. Preempting doesn't change it.", I have to call bullshit on that. 100% false accusation. Period. You demonstrate your bias in saying that.

Ok, so I went back and read your webbie. I think you're a way better writer then LRH, I'll give you that. Way easier to understand and way more contemporary then valences, engrams, secondaries etc. For me it's still Scientology though I understand why you don't want to be associated with that name. It seems to me that you're re branding auditing as you see fit. Anyways, I'm not going to spend 30 minutes on your how&why video, if someone else has watched it I'd be most grateful for a brief on it.

Releasing the powerful compressed energy of a moment of shock brings about magnificent relief, and this is reliably accomplished through application of the aptly named Moment of Shock Release Technique. It results in a true and joyful spiritual liberation that is not attainable through any other known means.

 

[Dex G]

Ok, so I went back and read your webbie. I think you're a way better writer then LRH, I'll give you that. Way easier to understand and way more contemporary then valences, engrams, secondaries etc. For me it's still Scientology though I understand why you don't want to be associated with that name. It seems to me that you're re branding auditing as you see fit. Anyways, I'm not going to spend 30 minutes on your how&why video, if someone else has watched it I'd be most grateful for a brief on it.

Thanks for the compliment, but in my view I'm correcting the misleading teachings of Scientology; from what I've observed, Hubbard would often take good information from others, and twist it for his own purposes. As in the one practice-related video that I did post in this forum, "PTS Tech" and Truth, a bit of the Trickery of "Standard" Scientology.

 

[Dex G]

If you have evolved beyond scientology why are you recommending the free zone to a total stranger on the internet? In case the OP isn't aware the free zone is ksw scientologist hubbardites still caught up in hubbard's cult. Do you think pointing a stranger you know nothing about in that direction is a morally responsible decision?

Do you have any verifiable qualifications in the mental health field so people can do their due diligence?

Sometimes people want what they want, and as at least a few others in this forum also feel, not everything in Scientology is without value. So if someone wants to explore Scientology, I recommend what I consider to be the safest path. I personally don't regret the time I spent in Scientology; everything we've experienced is part of what brought us to where we are now, and it was part of my (and most others' here) path. I do have some people close to me who experienced full on the horrors of abuse in the Sea Org, disconnection, etc, and so if someone is inclined to experience Scientology, at least they'll be a damn sight better off finding it outside of the "Church".

 

[Pseudonym]

If you have evolved beyond scientology why are you recommending the free zone to a total stranger on the internet? In case the OP isn't aware the free zone is ksw scientologist hubbardites still caught up in hubbard's cult. Do you think pointing a stranger you know nothing about in that direction is a morally responsible decision?

Do you have any verifiable qualifications in the mental health field so people can do their due diligence?

Sometimes people want what they want, and as at least a few others in this forum also feel, not everything in Scientology is without value. So if someone wants to explore Scientology, I recommend what I consider to be the safest path. I personally don't regret the time I spent in Scientology; everything we've experienced is part of what brought us to where we are now, and it was part of my (and most others' here) path. I do have some people close to me who experienced full on the horrors of abuse in the Sea Org, disconnection, etc, and so if someone is inclined to experience Scientology, at least they'll be a damn sight better off finding it outside of the "Church".

In other words you have no verifiable qualifications to practice mental health services (you avoided answering that question altogether) and have no moral qualms referring a person to scientology. That tells me all I need to know about you.

 

[cleared cannibal]

This is a major factor in Scientology. Not winning is frowned upon so people keep it to themselves when they are not getting what they thought they should. They doubly keep it under wraps because they know they will be sent to the registrar which has become the real source of their problems. Scientologists refuse to admit they are losing until they hit the bottom.

This is not confined to Scn . There is a lot of this in going along with the crowd in most everything. Scn has just taken advantage of it and raised it by orders of magnitude.