Auditing effectiveness...Does it really work?

I have seen chronic physical discomforts resolved, and some positive changes of attitude relating to things that had previously been disturbing. Again, in my view, not the most efficient approach, and not always effective, but these can and do happen. Some find it miraculous, some find it completely ineffective; we all need to find out what works best for ourselves individually, in my opinion.

Just for the record, I was a Standard Dianetics/Scientology grades auditor working in a major scientology org, and I can honestly say with my hand on my heart, that in all the years I was around auditing and auditors, apart from the initial 'high' that accompanies the fabled cog-F/N, I cannot remember one case of somebody actually permanently recovering from any chronic physical discomfort or mental trauma, growing a new tooth or throwing away their spectacles from the hundreds of people that we dealt with as a result of their being audited.

What that says about me and how fucking dumb I was to continue my involvement is another matter entirely.
 
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As mentioned by @Type4_PTS, I too used and am still using EFT with great results regarding anxiety.
Also, a general prescription (from doctors) to lessen anxiety, depression and sleep disorders is always related to lifestyle and include daily exercicing which releases the well being hormones and it's fun and free.
Walking in parks, in nature is such a great healer and if combined with mindfulness meditation ( proven anxiety, trauma reducing tool) it brings about major changes in a short time (work on the glandular hormonal axe)
All of those work. Most healing is free. Scientology convinces one they are really fucked up and only Scientology can fix the fucked up ness
Scientology does not work
 
Just for the record, I was a Standard Dianetics/Scientology grades auditor working in a major scientology org, and I can honestly say with my hand on my heart, that in all the years I was around auditing and auditors, apart from the initial 'high' that accompanies the fabled cog-F/N, I cannot remember one case of somebody actually permanently recovering from any chronic physical discomfort or mental trauma from the hundreds of people that we dealt with as a result of their being audited.

What that says about me and how fucking dumb I was to continue my involvement is another matter entirely.
I've seen improvements that at least seemed to be permanent, and in my days as a Scientology/Dianetics auditor, I'd often felt frustration seeing "PC's" repeatedly start their sessions complaining about the same sort of issues showing up to be "keyed out" with rudiments, rather then being the subject taken up for the session ("keep them moving 'up' the grade chart"). But that "fabled high", I believe, is the gimmick that kept people coming back for more. I think that as a sensation it can be as addictive as any other means of attaining a "high", and Hubbard cleverly had us all falsely equating that sensation with meaningful spiritual progress, despite little or no change in our day to day lives. One of my favorite expressions, and, I think a truer measure" "If you think you're enlightened, try spending some time around your family". :)
 
Just for the record, I was a Standard Dianetics/Scientology grades auditor working in a major scientology org, and I can honestly say with my hand on my heart, that in all the years I was around auditing and auditors, apart from the initial 'high' that accompanies the fabled cog-F/N, I cannot remember one case of somebody actually permanently recovering from any chronic physical discomfort or mental trauma from the hundreds of people that we dealt with as a result of their being audited.

What that says about me and how fucking dumb I was to continue my involvement is another matter entirely.
PERMANENT, that is a word, isn't it?? Permanent gains. :wtf:

About the dumb part. I was on staff teaching auditors. Loved the inconsistencies in the "technical" references which we used to train auditors. Do this, don't do that, but in this case do that, but don't do this, understand? :dizzy:

I did pay for a whole bunch of auditing . I think I was dumber, but just my assertion. You have my permission to agree. Just this once:)
 
Hi @MAQ.

My background in very short version: I had loads of dianetics and scientology during my years associated with the group (20 years). Since leaving I have used tapping. and had some excellent therapy with skilled professional therapists/psychologist. Imo I have some capacity to contrast both methods.

A true therapeutic relationship is balanced. Neither party is holding the answers. The power and control about what happens, and when, is fairly level. Discussion is open and transparent. There are no demands to "carry on until...". There are other factors involved in a healthy therapeutic relationship but these points give the general idea. Suggestion: look up what a healthy therapeutic relationship entails and work out for yourself what you would prefer if working with another person in a therapeutic way.

There are many issues surrounding dianetics which in my honest opinion makes it an unhealthy option for someone seeking to deal with mental health discomforts. The issue of non-transparency is a big issue. No one is told at the beginning that by signing up for some "dianetics auditing" that there will endless - and I mean endless - further actions necessary (and heavily insisted upon) to continue one's road to feel better, do well in life, etc., etc. With a healthy therapeutic method one is free to quit at any time, and genuinely walk away. With dianetics (run under the scientology system) this is simply not possible. People can kid themselves that they can, and will, just walk away but know that this is not truly how scientology works.

A healthy healing method does not create a dependency on the therapist or the therapy method. Imo this is very important. I'll try and explain how this worked with both dianetics/scientology and mainstream therapy.

Dianetics is aiming for a goal (they call it clear). Steps are laid out to follow to attain this goal. This has a tendency to hook a person, hold them to the therapy method and create a dependency. With mainstream therapy, or even tapping (which I have really enjoyed using over the years and found very useful during heavy anxiety & panic attacks) this dependency issue is carefully avoided. The therapists I have worked with have always been very careful to not create a need for them to be in my life. They wanted me to become self-sufficient, managing my own inner emotional life and out in the world living life. The difference between that and dianetics/scientology is like night and day. With dianetics you are always being interviewed (by a registrar who does what we called "regging") to sign up for your next lot of auditing or a course.

Having experienced both methods there is no way I would recommend to someone else a system which becomes sort of like a screwed up marriage where you "have to" stay because you are on a committed path. Leaving gets harder and harder as the months, years, pass due to the attachments and loyalties which are invisibly built.

Dianetics: builds an incessant need to stay and have more and more. Strings attached.
Mainstream therapy: supports you with the issues you present with and respects your right to leave and go live your life your way. No strings attached.

Hope this helps or at least gives you some lines of research and points to reflect upon. All the very best. May you find some peace and comfort.
 
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All of those work. Most healing is free. Scientology convinces one they are really fucked up and only Scientology can fix the fucked up ness
Scientology does not work

I concur!

Scientology is the science of peddling.

The approach is based in convincing people ( all human beings) they need to be fixed ( the bridge and all endless processed to nowhere else than bancrupcy and delusion.)

When people have mental health issue they must look for approved competent licensed therapists instead of listening to charlatans peddler who only want your money.

A licensed therapist must released you when goals are reached.
 
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<snip>
A healthy healing method does not create a dependency on the therapist or the therapy method. Imo this is very important. I'll try and explain how this worked with both dianetics/scientology and mainstream therapy.

Dianetics is aiming for a goal (they call it clear). Steps are laid out to follow to attain this goal. This has a tendency to hook a person, hold them to the therapy method and create a dependency.
<snip>

@MAQ

Added to the sentences I snipped from Glenda's post, the "church" of Scientology has no intention for you to walk in, get help to resolve your issues, and then be on your way. Their intention for pretty much everyone who walks through their door is expressed in a policy by Hubbard entitled "Keeping Scientology Working".

"When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe—never permit an “open-minded” approach. If they’re going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they’re aboard, and if they’re aboard, they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us—win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists."
 
.
If it was totally ineffective they couldnt scam people.

Yes.....and No.

NO:
There are many degenerate con games, scams and hoaxes that are obviously totally ineffective, yet substantial numbers of people and/or entire cultures/religions get scammed for years, decades or centuries---before the "BIG LIES" are exposed or lose their mesmeric traction.​

YES:
The better scams incorporate a safeguard which sustains the scam longer than would be thought reasonable or even possible. Hubbard's multi-faceted scamm entitled "THE BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM" (which includes such glorious subsets as "Clear!" and "Operating Thetan!) has a "win" generating component, where the mark sees/experiences some level of "proof" that they are realizing substantial "gains". The key word is "ineffective" (ref : your post, above)​
​
The simplest way of understanding the concept of "innefective" is to focus on the far more important and expository root word, "effective". Without delving into the esoteric abstractions of Scientology's term "case gain", we can use another example to illustrate. Consider for a moment another guru who operated in the financial, not spiritual, realm. Rather than "spiritual case gain", let's substitute "financial gain". And, let's cite a few obvious (linked) examples: Charles Ponzi, Bernie Madoff and Reid Slatkin.​
​
What we can observe is that the PERCEPTION of "gains" is often supported by physical world evidence for greatly varying durations. Ponzi scheme investors actually do get real-world ROI cash distributions and such. It's real. They even report it to the IRS and pay taxes on it! The money really appeared in their bank accounts. It's not just a "perception", it actually happened. Alas, when the movie runs fast forward to the final minutes of the third and final act, those "gains" are revealed in a surprise ending to be liabilities. Think "claw-back" of the ill-gotten gainst by receivers/trustees in later-day bankruptcty court. To wit, "Oh, you thought you MADE money?! No, you actually OWE money!"​
​
Again, the point here is that a high-quality scam always includes a diabolically clever component that seduces the mark into seeing/believing that they are making huge gains. Scientologists have a multi-facted set of lenses that tell them they are "really" getting case gain, and that (therefore) the tech has worked! Mainly, the idea of "wins" is a normal human event, especially in any endeavor where REPETITION and FOCUS are required, which auditing/training inherently contains a vast abundance of (i.e. "number of times over materials equals certainty")

The certainty that Scientologists have that they are having "huge case gains" is a fascinating one indeed, and there are built-in triggers to the fabric of Scientology that ensure their donors receive such "proof of concept" and encouragements to keep their eyes on the prize---and remain blinklessly dedicated in the face of F/Ning foolishness.
​
.​
​
 
Just for the record, I was a Standard Dianetics/Scientology grades auditor working in a major scientology org, and I can honestly say with my hand on my heart, that in all the years I was around auditing and auditors, apart from the initial 'high' that accompanies the fabled cog-F/N, I cannot remember one case of somebody actually permanently recovering from any chronic physical discomfort or mental trauma, growing a new tooth or throwing away their spectacles from the hundreds of people that we dealt with as a result of their being audited.

The seemingly miraculous generation of new physiology is not unknown in medical annals.

After extensive auditing, I myself grew an entire organ that I was missing since birth.

The reactive brain.

Once I had successfully grown that vital organ, I was very thankfully able to start enjoying the tech's ability to erase it.

.
 
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Hi @MAQ.

My background in very short version: I had loads of dianetics and scientology during my years associated with the group (20 years). Since leaving I have used tapping. and had some excellent therapy with skilled professional therapists/psychologist. Imo I have some capacity to contrast both methods.

A true therapeutic relationship is balanced. Neither party is holding the answers. The power and control about what happens, and when, is fairly level. Discussion is open and transparent. There are no demands to "carry on until...". There are other factors involved in a healthy therapeutic relationship but these points give the general idea. Suggestion: look up what a healthy therapeutic relationship entails and work out for yourself what you would prefer if working with another person in a therapeutic way.

There are many issues surrounding dianetics which in my honest opinion makes it an unhealthy option for someone seeking to deal with mental health discomforts. The issue of non-transparency is a big issue. No one is told at the beginning that by signing up for some "dianetics auditing" that there will endless - and I mean endless - further actions necessary (and heavily insisted upon) to continue one's road to feel better, do well in life, etc., etc. With a healthy therapeutic method one is free to quit at any time, and genuinely walk away. With dianetics (run under the scientology system) this is simply not possible. People can kid themselves that they can, and will, just walk away but know that this is not truly how scientology works.

A healthy healing method does not create a dependency on the therapist or the therapy method. Imo this is very important. I'll try and explain how this worked with both dianetics/scientology and mainstream therapy.

Dianetics is aiming for a goal (they call it clear). Steps are laid out to follow to attain this goal. This has a tendency to hook a person, hold them to the therapy method and create a dependency. With mainstream therapy, or even tapping (which I have really enjoyed using over the years and found very useful during heavy anxiety & panic attacks) this dependency issue is carefully avoided. The therapists I have worked with have always been very careful to not create a need for them to be in my life. They wanted me to become self-sufficient, managing my own inner emotional life and out in the world living life. The difference between that and dianetics/scientology is like night and day. With dianetics you are always being interviewed (by a registrar who does what we called "regging") to sign up for your next lot of auditing or a course.

Having experienced both methods there is no way I would recommend to someone else a system which becomes sort of like a screwed up marriage where you "have to" stay because you are on a committed path. Leaving gets harder and harder as the months, years, pass due to the attachments and loyalties which are invisibly built.

Dianetics: builds an incessant need to stay and have more and more. Strings attached.
Mainstream therapy: supports you with the issues you present with and respects your right to leave and go live your life your way. No strings attached.

Hope this helps or at least gives you some lines of research and points to reflect upon. All the very best. May you find some peace and comfort.


This is really good.
 
.


Yes.....and No.

NO:
There are many degenerate con games, scams and hoaxes that are obviously totally ineffective, yet substantial numbers of people and/or entire cultures/religions get scammed for years, decades or centuries---before the "BIG LIES" are exposed or lose their mesmeric traction.​

YES:
The better scams incorporate a safeguard which sustains the scam longer than would be thought reasonable or even possible. Hubbard's multi-faceted scamm entitled "THE BRIDGE TO TOTAL FREEDOM" (which includes such glorious subsets as "Clear!" and "Operating Thetan!) has a "win" generating component, where the mark sees/experiences some level of "proof" that they are realizing substantial "gains". The key word is "ineffective" (ref : your post, above)​
​
The simplest way of understanding the concept of "innefective" is to focus on the far more important and expository root word, "effective". Without delving into the esoteric abstractions of Scientology's term "case gain", we can use another example to illustrate. Consider for a moment another guru who operated in the financial, not spiritual, realm. Rather than "spiritual case gain", let's substitute "financial gain". And, let's cite a few obvious (linked) examples: Charles Ponzi, Bernie Madoff and Reid Slatkin.​
​
What we can observe is that the PERCEPTION of "gains" is often supported by physical world evidence for greatly varying durations. Ponzi scheme investors actually do get real-world ROI cash distributions and such. It's real. They even report it to the IRS and pay taxes on it! The money really appeared in their bank accounts. It's not just a "perception", it actually happened. Alas, when the movie runs fast forward to the final minutes of the third and final act, those "gains" are revealed in a surprise ending to be liabilities. Think "claw-back" of the ill-gotten gainst by receivers/trustees in later-day bankruptcty court. To wit, "Oh, you thought you MADE money?! No, you actually OWE money!"​
​
Again, the point here is that a high-quality scam always includes a diabolically clever component that seduces the mark into seeing/believing that they are making huge gains. Scientologists have a multi-facted set of lenses that tell them they are "really" getting case gain, and that (therefore) the tech has worked! Mainly, the idea of "wins" is a normal human event, especially in any endeavor where REPETITION and FOCUS are required, which auditing/training inherently contains a vast abundance of (i.e. "number of times over materials equals certainty")

The certainty that Scientologists have that they are having "huge case gains" is a fascinating one indeed, and there are built-in triggers to the fabric of Scientology that ensure their donors receive such "proof of concept" and encouragements to keep their eyes on the prize---and remain blinklessly dedicated in the face of F/Ning foolishness.
​
.​
​
You can 't overlook the reality that people will lie to themselves about their wins. You can get along pretty well sometimes l lieing to others but when you lie to yourself about Scn you have crossed the Rubicon.

I guess they just need more auditing. Can you say non confront.
 
You can 't overlook the reality that people will lie to themselves about their wins. You can get along pretty well sometimes l lieing to others but when you lie to yourself about Scn you have crossed the Rubicon.


....when you lie to yourself about Scn you have also crossed the OT Rube-icon.


Collins Dictionary:
rube - noun: 1. Homo Sapien. 2. Wog. 3. Degraded Being. 4. If you refer to someone as a rube, you consider them stupid and uneducated because they come from the countryside MEST universe.​

.
 
Hi!

I am new here and need some information regarding dianetics & its effectiveness in treating mental problems like anxiety, OCD, insomnia, trauma etc. It would really help me to decide whether to go for auditing sessions if you guys could answer the following questions. Feel free to share your all your opinions and experiences with dianetics:

Hi MAQ!

Lots of good stuff has already been said, so I think the only advice I can give you is, when it comes to anxiety, OCD, insomnia, trauma or any other mental health issue, you should always seek the advice of an actual professional, either a psychologist or a psychiatrist.

Scientologist and the "Church of Scientology" is not equipped or trained to deal with any of those issues and never have been.
 
The seemingly miraculous generation of new physiology is not unknown in medical annals.

After extensive auditing, I myself grew an entire organ that I was missing since birth.

The reactive brain.

Once I had successfully grown that vital organ, I was very thankfully able to start enjoying the tech's ability to erase it.

.

I threw the 'growing a new tooth' bit in because I remember Forrest Ackerman mentioning it in respect of dianetic auditing. As if ...
 
I blew scn soon after attesting to "Dianetic Clear" in 1982 because of the price increases. A rough guess is that I had received about 150-200 hours of auditing at that point. Trying to recall what "things" might have been troubling me or of interest to me way back then is impossible, at least for me. That would sort of be reconstructing my "case" if there is such a thing. I suppose if I had all of my auditing folders in front of me I could go through them and recall, "Oh yes, now I remember that was something I handled."

Were there eight, ten or a dozen things which I permanently handled? I don't know.

Spirituality was not part of my thinking back then. Studying "the mind" was my interest and I thought I might make a living as a field auditor. A regular Scientology psychologist would I be. Hang out a shingle and get to work.
 
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You can 't overlook the reality that people will lie to themselves about their wins. You can get along pretty well sometimes l lieing to others but when you lie to yourself about Scn you have crossed the Rubicon.

I guess they just need more auditing. Can you say non confront.
The person HAS to come up with a win or the “session” never ends and money on account runs out.
THAT is a big part of How Scientology operates ( I won’t say WORKS because it does not work. It’s a scam!
 
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