The Scientologirl Independent Scientology YouTube channel associated with the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains

[freethinker]

I'll preface this with there are a lot of things Hubbard took from other people and called his own. There are many things in this world from other sources that have workability. Workability does not mean repeatability or always a desired result. It only means you will get a result, not that it will be a desired result.

there are some really toxic individuals here.

Is this because they don't think like you do or that they found Scientology didn't work for them?
If you had met any of the people here outside this forum and topic and never discussed Scientology, would you still think they were toxic?
What does toxic mean to you? Something someone says that doesn't agree with you? You're going to run into that in more places than here and over many different things.

because we spend time here you think that is toxic, but if we agreed with you would it still be toxic? Would we still need to get away from here? Is no arguing and just agreeing with everything the best state and condition one can achieve? Is arguing always toxic? Is happiness measured by the amount you don't argue?

What if people don't argue with you but also don't agree with you? Are they better off clamming up and wearing a smile or are you better off because you don't really have to engage with people and there fore not be infected with toxicity?

Someday you may not have your theetie weetie vibe going on and you will confront someone about it and, shit, you will have to argue.

LRH actually DID cancel fair game and DC, DM brought it back.

There is no way you could possibly know that. However there is plenty of evidence people were fair gamed after he cancelled it as you say so what happened there? Can you answer that or is it they must have been toxic?

Honestly, do none of you find that the conditions work in your life? Is SP tech just a myth? That would be funny considering when I personally chose to DC from two very toxic people, my life transformed, and they had those SP traits. I have done almost 60 OCAs for people and they have been highly accurate, is that BS too? What about the dynamics, does categorising parts of life not simplify life for you all? What about auditing, you don’t think those cognitions you had which cleared up past incidents were real to you? Or something as simple as how a balance of mass and significance helps us in learning? I can mention hundreds more examples of the tech that I found incredible value in and yes, even going clear has stabilised me where I was once pretty reactive.

I have seen people use aspects of the conditions and things got better but i can't say it was because they followed a condition. Also, I have seen people use the conditions to their detriment confusion and disaster but Scientology has that covered, it's always because they have an MU, it's never the formula.

But here is an experiment for you, next time you have an affluence, do the affluence formula and let me know how it comes out.

To those who do have some theta left here: Have you asked yourself truly what you’re doing on a toxic place like this all the time?

The only thing toxic around here for me is Harold. He belongs to a new cult. Otherwise here is just fine. I may get into an argument here and there but that's just part of everyone trying to be OT.

 

[Irayam]

The only thing toxic around here for me is Harold.

And me? Why not me? Why only @Harold#1 ?

 

[Harold#1]

And me? Why not me? Why only @Harold#1 ?

I'm #1 toxic poster to @freethinker !!!

 

[freethinker]

And me? Why not me? Why only @Harold#1 ?

You don't bother me as much because you don't post article after article of someone else's opinion, you express your own.
Harold hides behind propaganda pieces, you, much less so. Harold trolls incessantly. You actually take a moment to think on the subject, Harold just searches for some article on the subject which projects his opinion.

In fact, Harold carries that over to conversation where he just repeats back what you said. Harold has no original thoughts. It's much like dealing wit an immature child.

 

[freethinker]

I'm #1 toxic poster to @freethinker !!!

I think quite a few others would have something to say about that. Actually, IO may just turn you off as your content is ridiculous.

 

[freethinker]

Wow, the board cleaned up nicely.

 

[Irayam]

You don't bother me as much because you don't post article after article of someone else's opinion, you express your own.
Harold hides behind propaganda pieces, you, much less so. Harold trolls incessantly. You actually take a moment to think on the subject, Harold just searches for some article on the subject which projects his opinion.

In fact, Harold carries that over to conversation where he just repeats back what you said. Harold has no original thoughts. It's much like dealing wit an immature child.

Yet @Harold#1 brings links which I don't often do.

 

[freethinker]

Yet @Harold#1 brings links which I don't often do.

His links are to opinion pieces written by people who have bias but little facts. Mostly NY Times, Washington Times, LA Times, The New Yorker. Not links of value.

 

[Irayam]

His links are to opinion pieces written by people who have bias but little facts. Mostly NY Times, Washington Times, LA Times, The New Yorker. Not links of value.

I see. This is your opinion.

 

[freethinker]

I see. This is your opinion.

The facts are on the board. Show me the posts where he doesn't do just what I said. I'll give you a couple of days.

 

[Harold#1]

His links are to opinion pieces written by people who have bias but little facts. Mostly NY Times, Washington Times, LA Times, The New Yorker. Not links of value.

Mostly Washington Post, rarely Washington Times.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

I come here every day hoping to read that, at last, justice has banned $cientology. Including its slightly less toxic by-products, the various squirrel groups.

-snip-

I've revised my post so as not to ask any questions.

William Burroughs was proposing this fifty years ago:

"Let's set up a center where these techniques [including auditing techniques] can be pooled, and challenge anyone to come out and share what they have. Let's explore inner space. Your inner space belongs to you."

Burroughs had completed the Clearing Course in 1968 and departed the Advanced Org, and politely declined the invitation to do the OT levels. Instinctively he knew something was wrong, yet his public statements on Scientology, soon after that, even though he had left, sounded very much like a Scientologist being protective of Scientology.

Here he is, while still IN Scientology

Published in 1971

His views gradually changed over a span of years.

Yet he was never of favor of banning "squirrel" groups.

Speaking of "squirrel" groups, the California Association of Dianetic Auditors, which has come under attack by corporate Scientology, was and is a "squirrel" group.

And a former member of Scientology privately auditing a friend, each to satisfy their curiosity, would be "squirreling."

It may be wise to think twice before going merrily banning "squirreling."

 

[Bill]

Mostly Washington Post, rarely Washington Times.

@freethinker, @Harold#1: Can you please take your little, fussy arguments back over to the Politics threads? Thanks.

 

[freethinker]

@freethinker, @Harold#1: Can you please take your little, fussy arguments back over to the Politics threads? Thanks.

I shut him off. He doesn't hold normal conversations anyway and I won't miss his posts. In fact he doesn't have conversations at all.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

As you go forward from here, remember this:

Virtually all of us ex-Scientologists here were exactly like you at one time. We believed in the promises of Scientology: Release, Clear and the incredible OT levels. We were exactly like you. We believed in the promises of Hubbard. We knew this was the most incredible technology, ever. Every single bit of it worked!

Anyone who disputed this was evil. Everyone who claimed unworkability was evil. We defended the tech against all challenges!

Just like you.

Time passed and while sessions ended with an "F/N" and we temporarily felt great... we never made it to the promised gains: Release, Clear and OT. Many of us made it to the OT levels. Still no promised miracles.

Remember this. We were exactly like you are now. We supported and defended Hubbard and the tech. For years.

Remember this in a few months or years when you get a bit more experience. You will understand, I promise.

.

Thanks for that judiciously balanced assessment of the pathways one travels within Scientology!

The truth of who Dr. Hubbard actually is and what his miracle tech actually does (and doesn't do) will inexorably leak out to all who seek truth.

After reading your post, I considered the pathway that Scientologists imagine themselves to be on which ascends to ever-greater spiritual heights (theta heaven). Hubbard called it a "Bridge to Total Freedom". And the pathway that Scientologists imagine others (DBs & SPs) are on, which descends to ever greater spiritual depths (MEST hell). From this, a fascinating graphic began to form in my mind of TWO (2) bridges going in opposite directions.

In fact, there are many more than two Bridges in ScientologyWorld. That's by intent, and they all go in different directions. Hubbard designed it that way to keep his marks and slaves deceived, dizzy & disoriented—making them far more credulous and compliant.

Scientology's stairways to Heaven and Hell. It's not as dark,
depressing & deceptive as it looks---just take a routing form!

​

As to your statement, "Remember this in a few months or years when you get a bit more experience. You will understand, I promise"—in one's quest to understand why it takes Scientologists so long to figure out the hoax, the noted philosopher Don Hubbard (cv, below) discovered this useful axiom:

"The knowing-how-to-know people are always the last to know."
- L. Don Hubbard​

.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

As you go forward from here, remember this:

Virtually all of us ex-Scientologists here were exactly like you at one time. We believed in the promises of Scientology: Release, Clear and the incredible OT levels. We were exactly like you. We believed in the promises of Hubbard. We knew this was the most incredible technology, ever. Every single bit of it worked!

Anyone who disputed this was evil. Everyone who claimed unworkability was evil. We defended the tech against all challenges!

Just like you.

Time passed and while sessions ended with an "F/N" and we temporarily felt great... we never made it to the promised gains: Release, Clear and OT. Many of us made it to the OT levels. Still no promised miracles.

Remember this. We were exactly like you are now. We supported and defended Hubbard and the tech. For years.

Remember this in a few months or years when you get a bit more experience. You will understand, I promise.

I agree with 95% of your post Bill but we were not all like her ... she is one of those fairly rare (thank gawd) people who has chosen to take on an imagined aura, an inclination to lecture, an urge to educate the world, to show us how to be our 'best selves' ... how to live our 'best lives' one video at a time ... by accepting hubbard the horrible as our guru, for the second time around, and then getting spiteful when she comes up against any opposition.

Most of us managed to avoid going down that road ... our egos were probably not big enough.



As we all know there are many people (usually from minorities) doing that these days ... and I'm sick of the very sight and sound of the lot of em!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I agree with 95% of your post Bill but we were not all like her ... she is one of those fairly rare (thank gawd) people who has chosen to take on an imagined aura, an inclination to lecture, an urge to educate the world, to show us how to be our 'best selves' ... how to live our 'best lives' one video at a time ... by accepting hubbard the horrible as our guru, for the second time around, and then getting spiteful when she comes up against any opposition.

Most of us managed to avoid going down that road ... our egos were probably not big enough.



As we all know there are many people (usually from minorities) doing that these days ... and I'm sick of the very sight and sound of the lot of em!

The ultra-woke from spiritual (and political) cults are all on a mission to awaken the wicked---the DBs, PTSes & SPs of the world.

They so badly want to save you, so you can be like them! So, pick up a club and join them, won't you? Then you can maraud around the internet seeking people who disagree with them so you can both beat down those who dare to disagree (with Dr. Hubbard) so they fall into a comatose (but actually very woke) state! LOL.

Scientologists on the prowl are not actually looking to save souls but, instead, to recruit new gang members into their high-toned hoax.

ITYIWT, you did this to yourself. Don't you know by disagreeing that you enturbulated this planet and now need to be handled?! LOL

​

 

[Veda]

It's puzzling to me that most here, having been members of the cult, some for many years, have so little empathy for another person who is, essentially, much as they were.

While it's necessary to occasionally present information that may be uncomfortable for the person, would not a rational attitude be, mostly, one of patience and (as much as possible) tolerance, with the primary desire being to help?

And I know many, in their own way, are trying to help.

Yet, too often, the intent seems to be to drive away people who most need our help, because they have some disagreement with us at this time.

This seems odd to me.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

It's puzzling to me that most here, having been members of the cult, some for many years, have so little empathy for another person who is, essentially, much as they were.

While it's necessary to occasionally present information that may be uncomfortable for the person, would not a rational attitude be, mostly, one of patience and (as much as possible) tolerance, with the primary desire being to help?

And I know many, in their own way, are trying to help.

Yet, too often, the intent seems to be to drive away people who most need our help, because they have some agreement with us at this time.

This seems odd to me.

Ah well, perhaps we are here for very different reasons Veda ... I gave up trying to save both planets and people a long time ago. Every individual lives as they choose to live as far as I am concerned and unless they ask for advice I refrain for offering any ... if I were here trying to save people from themselves I may as well have remained in the cult.

I will just add that I draw a definite line between wannabe gurus and people who are just member's of the cult ... the former need a good slap, the latter are often lovely people who are (as you say) much as we once were.

 

[Irayam]

The facts are on the board. Show me the posts where he doesn't do just what I said. I'll give you a couple of days.

I was actually talking about your opinion on the validity of @Harold#1’s information sources (Mostly NY Times, Washington Times, LA Times, The New Yorker).
I only know the names of these newspapers and not their reputations. But for you, the mere fact that they are classic sources of information must be a problem, I think.