the CLEAR

[ExMyself]

Hi all,
i left Scientology 1 year or so ago, during protrs and i remember people saying how amazing was being clear and reach that point. I remember someone told me that it took 5 years for her to go clear because there is a specific EP and she was not getting it. I am now courious, as i am remembering my scientology journey with everything that is going on with the speed runs, and i wonder: do you know what is the EXACT EP for going clear? and why it has to be exactly that? and if you are Clear, did someone told you the EP or you really found out after paying a lot of money? is it true what ppl inside the church used to say that it was the best experience ever? if it was similar to the pro trs for me would have been hell!!!
let's discuss
and thanks for the welcome - i am happy i have found a space!

 

[Type4_PTS]

Nobody obtained the attributes of a Clear as Hubbard described it in DMSMH, and the definition of Clear kept changing after that. Within this post on the original ESMB (which is in archive-only mode) is a post from David Mayo about this. He wrote it in 1989, 6 years after he left his post of Senior C/S International, and was no longer in the CoS.

Clear: some background

IMO, essentially, Hubbard's basic behavior didn't change from the very beginning. Hubbard hiding out in Queens, New York, in 1973: __________ Hubbard's mistress from 1951 was interviewed by BBC television for the late 1990s 'Secret Lives' Program, and told of seeing Hubbard in 1951...

forum.exscn.net

Here is an excerpt from that post:



It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were "clear" at a certain point, and that they therefore had no reactive mind. However, this assertion is a lie, and a very destructive one, one that denies case gain to a great many people and provides a too-convenient rabbit button for pc's, auditors and C/S's who are having trouble with the pc's case. The claim that case and ethics problems can be caused by being clear was:

1. Absurd on the face of it.
2. A declaration of open rabbitting season.

Trying to define "clear" is difficult because it is being done over a lie. We either have to restore the meaning of clear to its original absolute meaning (which means that there aren't any clears in existence), or we have to say that what people have attested to as clear is actually only a state of release or reduction.

We can say that the purpose of auditing is to clear aberrations and that if all aberrations were cleared, a "state of clear" would be attained. The concept of "clear" is useful as an ultimate goal, like the goal of perfect happiness or of perfect anything. It is a direction in which to continue to progress. It is not an attainable state (at least given our present level of technology).

 

[pineapple]

Hi, @ExMyself, welcome aboard. I left scn in 1981, 45 years ago this year. (Wow!) I attested Dn Clear in 1979. The HCOB that said it was possible to go clear on Dns came out in '78 and there was a huge frenzy of attests in the wake of that. At the time there was definitely a specific cognition you had to have to attest, unless you were a 'Natural Clear', which meant you never had a reactive mind to begin with. For the naturals, specific meter phenomena were required. (I suspect the same cog is required today, though I doubt they accept 'natural clears' anymore.) I truly believed I was clear, and yeah it was great, for about 2 weeks. Then I began to realize that nothing had really changed, though I still believed I was clear. It took me many years to figure out what had happened. I now believe clear was just a delusion. I convinced myself I was clear to handle the cognitive dissonance I experienced when I saw so many other people attesting, many of whom I found it impossible to accept as clear. Some of these supposed clears showed nothing like the insight or ability I'd associated with clear up until then.

Nobody fed me the clear cog. Hubbard drops many hints about it, beginning in the early 50s. (Not in DMSMH or the other early books, though.) My understanding came from reading.

There was much discussion about clear and the clear cog on our old site, forum.exscn.net. If you want more I suggest you go there and search for 'state of clear', 'clear cognition', or similar wording. I hope this helps.

 

[Hatshepsut]

I think there are many situations where one remarkably reboots into caseless-ness. They happen whether or not Scientology ever existed. Some of the remarkable testimonials come from people on the edge of being annihilated. They suddenly pull out into a state of raw awareness. Not entrenched deeply in any identity. Why this happens, I don't know. Many an author telling the stories of soldiers on the field, or people left for dead after a trauma, has described this resurgence of pure unbridled, expansion of awareness.

 

[ExMyself]

Hi, @ExMyself, welcome aboard. I left scn in 1981, 45 years ago this year. (Wow!) I attested Dn Clear in 1979. The HCOB that said it was possible to go clear on Dns came out in '78 and there was a huge frenzy of attests in the wake of that. At the time there was definitely a specific cognition you had to have to attest, unless you were a 'Natural Clear', which meant you never had a reactive mind to begin with. For the naturals, specific meter phenomena were required. (I suspect the same cog is required today, though I doubt they accept 'natural clears' anymore.) I truly believed I was clear, and yeah it was great, for about 2 weeks. Then I began to realize that nothing had really changed, though I still believed I was clear. It took me many years to figure out what had happened. I now believe clear was just a delusion. I convinced myself I was clear to handle the cognitive dissonance I experienced when I saw so many other people attesting, many of whom I found it impossible to accept as clear. Some of these supposed clears showed nothing like the insight or ability I'd associated with clear up until then.

Nobody fed me the clear cog. Hubbard drops many hints about it, beginning in the early 50s. (Not in DMSMH or the other early books, though.) My understanding came from reading.

There was much discussion about clear and the clear cog on our old site, forum.exscn.net. If you want more I suggest you go there and search for 'state of clear', 'clear cognition', or similar wording. I hope this helps.

thanks for sharing the name of the old site and for share your experience. this is vert interesting. I wonder if for Scientology one can go clear anytime - the person just need to say the magic words / concept and they are clear

 

[ExMyself]

another follow up question is: can you go clear anytime? just saying the right word? would Scientology allow this to happen or not because they want your money to do all the courses?

 

[pineapple]

Hubbard specified that you couldn't go clear on 'other practices'. I don't have the exact quote handy, but he says somewhere that 'one doesn't go clear on Voodoo or garbage-eating', or something like that; it has to be on Dns or Scn. On the other hand, he said there were 'a very, very, very few' people who were 'Natural Clears', who never had a reactive mind in the first place! I think Hubbard meant himself and a few of the other great minds of history that he used to acknowledge at the beginning of his books: Aristotle, Pythagoras, Newton, etc. But in the late 70s clear frenzy, many, many people attested to Natural Clear. (From what I hear, all of these were later told they weren't really clear.) Did Hubbard anticipate this flood of Naturals, after he said there were 'very, very, very few'? I don't know.

No, it wasn't a matter of 'just saying a word'. You had to have the cog, and have it as a result of Dns and Scn. Or be a Natural. The attests were just to 'validate' the state you'd attained.

There was definitely a financial motive here. Hubbard created a big bottle neck in the lower grade chart at the Dn Drug RD, when he declared in 1972 that all reading drug items had to be run, regardless of pc interest. This resulted in DRDs of several hundred hours which it took a lot of time to get pc's through. When Hubbard said that you could go clear on Dns, he was trying to get pc's through this faster and onto the more expensive upper levels. (After the Dn Clear HCOB in '78, it became illegal to run any more Dns on someone who was Clear. Previous to that it was OK, and even encouraged if the pc or pre-OT had somatics.)

May I ask, @ExMyself, how long were you in scn?

 

[Type4_PTS]

Hubbard specified that you couldn't go clear on 'other practices'. I don't have the exact quote handy, but he says somewhere that 'one doesn't go clear on Voodoo or garbage-eating', or something like that; it has to be on Dns or Scn. On the other hand, he said there were 'a very, very, very few' people who were 'Natural Clears', who never had a reactive mind in the first place!

He probably wrote it multiple times. Here is an instance of that:

 

[ExMyself]

Hubbard specified that you couldn't go clear on 'other practices'. I don't have the exact quote handy, but he says somewhere that 'one doesn't go clear on Voodoo or garbage-eating', or something like that; it has to be on Dns or Scn. On the other hand, he said there were 'a very, very, very few' people who were 'Natural Clears', who never had a reactive mind in the first place! I think Hubbard meant himself and a few of the other great minds of history that he used to acknowledge at the beginning of his books: Aristotle, Pythagoras, Newton, etc. But in the late 70s clear frenzy, many, many people attested to Natural Clear. (From what I hear, all of these were later told they weren't really clear.) Did Hubbard anticipate this flood of Naturals, after he said there were 'very, very, very few'? I don't know.

No, it wasn't a matter of 'just saying a word'. You had to have the cog, and have it as a result of Dns and Scn. Or be a Natural. The attests were just to 'validate' the state you'd attained.

There was definitely a financial motive here. Hubbard created a big bottle neck in the lower grade chart at the Dn Drug RD, when he declared in 1972 that all reading drug items had to be run, regardless of pc interest. This resulted in DRDs of several hundred hours which it took a lot of time to get pc's through. When Hubbard said that you could go clear on Dns, he was trying to get pc's through this faster and onto the more expensive upper levels. (After the Dn Clear HCOB in '78, it became illegal to run any more Dns on someone who was Clear. Previous to that it was OK, and even encouraged if the pc or pre-OT had somatics.)

May I ask, @ExMyself, how long were you in scn?

i meant if you can you go clear anytime during your scientology courses, e.g., doing grads 0 or 1 and boom, you say the words and they say: ok you are doing grade 0 but you got the cog and so you are clear!

thanks for the explanation!!!

I was in scn for almost 2 years, i left during pro trs! and did only srd and nothing after

 

[Ed8]

There is no state of "clear". There are various states of release, expansion of awareness, return of abilities, and others. But "clear"? No such critter.

 

[onceuponatime]

i meant if you can you go clear anytime during your scientology courses, e.g., doing grads 0 or 1 and boom, you say the words and they say: ok you are doing grade 0 but you got the cog and so you are clear!

thanks for the explanation!!!

I was in scn for almost 2 years, i left during pro trs! and did only srd and nothing after

Has to be NED.

No such thing as natural or past life clears these days, they got rid of that "loophole" a long time ago.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

I like Pilot's definition "able to confront the force in mental image pictures", because from then on you cease being in a games condition with your own mind. The trouble is, I don't know how well it lines up with reality or if anyone's actually attained it.

 

[ExMyself]

Has to be NED.

No such thing as natural or past life clears these days, they got rid of that "loophole" a long time ago.

so if someone says the magic words/sentence during one of the grades auditing session, they just ignore it? that is so odd and clearly it doesn't make sense to an outside eye, but I guess is all around money and do all the steps up to NED so you pay for it

 

[onceuponatime]

so if someone says the magic words/sentence during one of the grades auditing session, they just ignore it? that is so odd and clearly it doesn't make sense to an outside eye, but I guess is all around money and do all the steps up to NED so you pay for it

That's what I've heard, that it has to be NED. I think there are some references talking about it? The only place "clears" are made is on NED or the Clearing Course.

 

[I M Dex]

The "natural clear" attests sprang from one sentence in an HCOB, "Technically there are a few thetans who have never been anything but clear", which gave license to anyone and everyone who felt or wanted to feel special to attest. The most amusing rationale to me was "That's why I couldn't run Dianetics, I was already clear" (as if it was a given that any unindoctrinated person should "run" on Hubbard's Dianetics"). The whole dogma was built around the theory that all a person's chronic undesirable feelings, attitudes, habits and sensations sprang from one all-inclusive self-contained "reactive mind"; there is no such thing. And anyone having a huge spiritual release, permanent or transient, through any means could feel for that moment like they were free and clear of it all. A Scientologist would be eager to take that as having "made it" to being "clear". And after having attested, be prone to private, suppressed feelings of being uniquely "defective" when experiencing all the "bank" feelings and attitudes that "clears" aren't supposed to have. And that secret dread that it's either that or all of this doesn't really work and isn't true then persists, even through refusal to internally acknowledge it (denial), as one goes through the "it must be my OT case", and "It's not me, it's my "body thetans", unless and until that house of cards of denial collapses, and then there can be the relief of not feeling one has to put so much effort into suppressing their own feelings and can let it be ok to rejoin the rest of humanity outside the cult.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Couple past posts from me:
~

I knew a person who got declared as Clear, then Un-Clear, four times, doing repeats​

of their lower bridges each time to get to Clear again. Like three to four trips through​

the lower bridge. A financial and mental calamity.​

​

At one point, about 70% of people on Solo Nots were told they weren't Clear and​

were forced to redo their bridges. Flag auditors -- which were mandatory at that point​

-- turned out to be super expensive for a lower bridge run-through.​

~

Here's a shocking anecdote I remember really clearly.​

​

I was newly in but was auditor trained all the way, so I had already experienced some things. I knew this man who​

was a lot older than me -- 55 or so at the time. A little hefty and definitely a blue collar kinda guy. He had his whole​

family in and active. One day I see him walking up my driveway. He looked chalky, sorta grey complexion, oddly​

sweating, rings around the eyes, and definitely not looking well by my standards.​

​

He said he had some news to tell me. I thought he was gonna tell me he had just survived a heart attack and was​

on the mend. But, no. He told me he had just attested to "dianetic clear." I was shocked as hell but didn't show it. I​

congratulated him, of course. That episode and a few others I won't mention caused me to have a "dark night of the​

soul" and I stopped auditing others after that. The whole early "dianetic clear" thing was a total mess, I concluded.​

~

 

[I M Dex]

At one point, about 70% of people on Solo Nots were told they weren't Clear and​

were forced to redo their bridges. Flag auditors -- which were mandatory at that point​

-- turned out to be super expensive for a lower bridge run-through.​

Wow, I had no idea they were so brazen as to do that with 70% of those people, and without explaining it by blaming some high-level tech czar as being "the SP". Hard to grok that much of them would do the Sisyphus thing and start over again from the bottom, rather than walk away.

~

Here's a shocking anecdote I remember really clearly.​

​

I was newly in but was auditor trained all the way, so I had already experienced some things. I knew this man who​

was a lot older than me -- 55 or so at the time. A little hefty and definitely a blue collar kinda guy. He had his whole​

family in and active. One day I see him walking up my driveway. He looked chalky, sorta grey complexion, oddly​

sweating, rings around the eyes, and definitely not looking well by my standards.​

​

He said he had some news to tell me. I thought he was gonna tell me he had just survived a heart attack and was​

on the mend. But, no. He told me he had just attested to "dianetic clear." I was shocked as hell but didn't show it. I​

congratulated him, of course. That episode and a few others I won't mention caused me to have a "dark night of the​

soul" and I stopped auditing others after that. The whole early "dianetic clear" thing was a total mess, I concluded.​

~

How could somebody be "newly in but was auditor trained all the way"? Is that not contradictory?

 

[Ed8]

Couple past posts from me:
~

I knew a person who got declared as Clear, then Un-Clear, four times, doing repeats​

of their lower bridges each time to get to Clear again. Like three to four trips through​

the lower bridge. A financial and mental calamity.​

​

At one point, about 70% of people on Solo Nots were told they weren't Clear and​

were forced to redo their bridges. Flag auditors -- which were mandatory at that point​

-- turned out to be super expensive for a lower bridge run-through.​

~

Here's a shocking anecdote I remember really clearly.​

​

I was newly in but was auditor trained all the way, so I had already experienced some things. I knew this man who​

was a lot older than me -- 55 or so at the time. A little hefty and definitely a blue collar kinda guy. He had his whole​

family in and active. One day I see him walking up my driveway. He looked chalky, sorta grey complexion, oddly​

sweating, rings around the eyes, and definitely not looking well by my standards.​

​

He said he had some news to tell me. I thought he was gonna tell me he had just survived a heart attack and was​

on the mend. But, no. He told me he had just attested to "dianetic clear." I was shocked as hell but didn't show it. I​

congratulated him, of course. That episode and a few others I won't mention caused me to have a "dark night of the​

soul" and I stopped auditing others after that. The whole early "dianetic clear" thing was a total mess, I concluded.​

~

I saw a so-called "dianetic clear" have a series of unfortunate accidents (broken kitchenware, nonfunctioning electronics, slight physical injuries) immediately after attesting to "dianetic clear". The only event which was not in my opinion damaging was when she lost her clear bracelet down a drain in her house. Yay, ha ha! Gosh, ya think she was given a false indication? It appears to me that her higher self (high awareness thetan) objected and acted to put an end to the nonsense via her own local dark beingness. Sorry if that previous sentence is awkward; I'm avoiding using specialized terminology on this forum.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

How could somebody be "newly in but was auditor trained all the way"?

First year or two in made it all the way to Class 4/5 auditor.
Plenty of experience in the chair. Had the money to train full time.

 

[I M Dex]

First year or two in made it all the way to Class 4/5 auditor.
Plenty of experience in the chair. Had the money to train full time.

Oh ok, to me "newly in" suggests 6 months or less. Where, which org?