The Org Information Center

[Reyne Mayer]

I didn't realize how long they owned some of these buildings, amazing that the whole field hasn't blown. Bought the building 20 years ago and still no Ideal org... Has to make some of them wonder what's going on.

i don't think that any of the US orgs left didn't buy at least their first building 15 or more years ago now -- except for Long Island, Hawaii and Puerto Rico that have never bought buildings. so yeah, i think you have to wonder how members confront that -- or hide from the inconvenient truth.

there are reports that in St. Louis, where the regging was apparently ruinous for some and the ED was taking big FSM cuts, that many members have concluded that the org is hopelessly riddled with SPs, with quite a few picking up and moving to Clearwater.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Boston not being finished is a real mystery. The building they last bought doesn't need much renovation. They have the money from 20 years of idle regging and the sale of the Beacon St property. Perhaps they have been spending all the cash they raised just trying to stay alive?

 

[onceuponatime]

i don't think that any of the US orgs left didn't buy at least their first building 15 or more years ago now -- except for Long Island, Hawaii and Puerto Rico that have never bought buildings. so yeah, i think you have to wonder how members confront that -- or hide from the inconvenient truth.

there are reports that in St. Louis, where the regging was apparently ruinous for some and the ED was taking big FSM cuts, that many members have concluded that the org is hopelessly riddled with SPs, with quite a few picking up and moving to Clearwater.

St Louis seemed like it was doing something but then it collapsed. Members migrating to Flag to get away from SPs is something I believe. Unfortunately the SPs aren't who they think and they will find more of them in CW.

I'm sure most members keep their head buried in the sand and try not to think about how long they've owned the building.

These last orgs are going to be a real problem for them, as we can see with Chicago and Austin.

Boston not being finished is a real mystery. The building they last bought doesn't need much renovation. They have the money from 20 years of idle regging and the sale of the Beacon St property. Perhaps they have been spending all the cash they raised just trying to stay alive?

The money is kept separate, I don't think the local org even has access to it. Management wasting it or spending it somewhere else? That's a possibility.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

I'm sure most members keep their head buried in the sand and try not to think about how long they've owned the building.

in St. Louis they changed plans to just renovating and adding on to the existing building (which they own, after selling off a campus-adjacent historic mansion that had become valuable) so they're quietly trying to sell off the historic building they had bought -- but failing after quite a few years now, presumably due to unrealistic expectations that i'm guessing have to do with imagining they could recover their costs including all the taxes they've paid over the years. that's definitely something members would want to put down the memory hole....

i'm assuming at least expenses including in many cases taxes are coming out of the money raised -- and in some places exceeding what was raised in the year. and we know that in the case of Toronto the org 'donated' the whole amount to some planetary emergency that int management came around regging for, so it's another thing not being managed in the responsible way you might assume. and i would not be surprised if orgs have been dipping into the funds, maybe writing IOUs, for money to keep the lights on and the doors open in the building they are in. to me it's another symptom of very disorganized, dysfunctional and almost aimless management.

 

[onceuponatime]

in St. Louis they changed plans to just renovating and adding on to the existing building (which they own, after selling off a campus-adjacent historic mansion that had become valuable) so they're quietly trying to sell off the historic building they had bought -- but failing after quite a few years now, presumably due to unrealistic expectations that i'm guessing have to do with imagining they could recover their costs including all the taxes they've paid over the years. that's definitely something members would want to put down the memory hole....

i'm assuming at least expenses including in many cases taxes are coming out of the money raised -- and in some places exceeding what was raised in the year. and we know that in the case of Toronto the org 'donated' the whole amount to some planetary emergency that int management came around regging for, so it's another thing not being managed in the responsible way you might assume. and i would not be surprised if orgs have been dipping into the funds, maybe writing IOUs, for money to keep the lights on and the doors open in the building they are in. to me it's another symptom of very disorganized, dysfunctional and almost aimless management.

Oh I have no doubt it isn't being managed responsibly. Org operating expenses is a stretch though, in my opinion. I could see it being used for property taxes, etc. But I'm pretty sure their SOP is to not pay and then appeal/take it to court. Unfortunately I think they're pretty successful at that in the US.

At this point I don't even think funds is their biggest problem, it's staff. In places with high real estate/construction funds might be a bit harder. But now that they are down to the last few they can concentrate on one or two at a time and just get them done. Battle creek can't get battle creek done, but the rest of the US can. At least for the fundraising. Recruiting enough staff though? That's tough, much easier to get donations. That's what I think they're running into.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Org operating expenses is a stretch though, in my opinion. I could see it being used for property taxes, etc. But I'm pretty sure their SOP is to not pay and then appeal/take it to court.

but from an insider account most of the orgs at least in WUS now need handouts (i suspect booked as loans) as often as monthly in order to meet expenses like that; the old way was living on the edge even in relatively good times and i guess assuming that if it came to a crisis point well-off local members or whales could be hit up to pay off the bills (there were reports of that being done in Montreal years ago), but it seems to me that they have declined past the point that the old strategy works (and i keep running across accounts that going back to the '90s if not '80s, orgs did sometimes have to be bailed out anyway). and i think it just makes sense that orgs that used to operate like that, after the member losses of the last decade and then the pandemic, not to mention the "Chase wave" that financed things for a while but went bust and left members broke, have to be starting to slip into effective insolvency.

so it seems to me that old assumptions about things like that can no longer be relied on, and the worst about finances needs to be considered if not assumed.

 

[onceuponatime]

but from an insider account most of the orgs at least in WUS now need handouts (i suspect booked as loans) as often as monthly in order to meet expenses like that; the old way was living on the edge even in relatively good times and i guess assuming that if it came to a crisis point well-off local members or whales could be hit up to pay off the bills (there were reports of that being done in Montreal years ago), but it seems to me that they have declined past the point that the old strategy works (and i keep running across accounts that going back to the '90s if not '80s, orgs did sometimes have to be bailed out anyway). and i think it just makes sense that orgs that used to operate like that, after the member losses of the last decade and then the pandemic, not to mention the "Chase wave" that financed things for a while but went bust and left members broke, have to be starting to slip into effective insolvency.

so it seems to me that old assumptions about things like that can no longer be relied on, and the worst about finances needs to be considered if not assumed.

The handouts orgs get is probably from a different pool of money. If I'm remembering correctly the building funds are pretty locked down. That's the only point I'm making with the building stuff, it isn't a pool of money that the local org or even the cont org can easily access and use as they please. It requires ok from higher up. That said, I wouldn't be shocked if they were using it for bail outs, I could also see this being something that has slipped over the years. Maybe 15 years ago it was unthinkable to use it for a bail out, today? Who knows.

 

[onceuponatime]

I've been hearing more and more about Austin, at this point I'm convinced that Austin will open before Chicago. Austin has 85 staff who are NED CC or above. Their staff might be heavily weighted towards people who have gone up the Grade Chart some degree, but if they have 85 NED CC or above I'm sure they also have a decent amount of lower level staff. This leads me to believe they have over 100 staff, perhaps we'll get one opening in Q1? Probably not, we'd already be hearing about it.

Of course who knows how many of those 85 are real arrivals vs just a piece of paper, but it's still something and hopefully will allow them to open. We're all rooting for you Austin! (mainly to see what happens next and the crash, I also want to see these execs firing!)

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Of course who knows how many of those 85 are real arrivals vs just a piece of paper, but it's still something and hopefully will allow them to open.

at least from what i've seen at Mike Rinder's, there was very little PR at all about Austin until recently, and it's still just a fraction of what is coming out about Chicago as far as announcements of staff recruited, and other things related to the 'opening'.

and i doubt they could have anywhere near 85 people in their current strip mall space:

 

[Reyne Mayer]

well what do you know....

they still could get Chicago in first, though. and given their dysfunctional history i would not hold my breath about this date, either:





pending permit:

 

[onceuponatime]

well what do you know....

they still could get Chicago in first, though. and given their dysfunctional history i would not hold my breath about this date, either:

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pending permit:

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That's some good detective work!

Yeah, we could still get Chicago first but everything I'm hearing says Austin. In a way, the fact that we heard so much about Chicago and relatively little about Austin points to Austin being first. To me it's a sign that Chicago still had a lot to handle while Austin was more or less ready to go.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

That's some good detective work!

Yeah, we could still get Chicago first but everything I'm hearing says Austin. In a way, the fact that we heard so much about Chicago and relatively little about Austin points to Austin being first. To me it's a sign that Chicago still had a lot to handle while Austin was more or less ready to go.

thanks. i've gotten used to looking up tax info and construction history on their abandoned or at least delayed projects, so i know where to find stuff fairly quickly.

from everything i've picked up Austin was one of the tiny and worst off orgs, probably more so than Chicago, so i don't know how they got enough staff first unless it is easier for them to bring people in from California.

 

[onceuponatime]

thanks. i've gotten used to looking up tax info and construction history on their abandoned or at least delayed projects, so i know where to find stuff fairly quickly.

from everything i've picked up Austin was one of the tiny and worst off orgs, probably more so than Chicago, so i don't know how they got enough staff first unless it is easier for them to bring people in from California.

I think it's easier to get people from CW to Austin, maybe from California too. I'm hearing they recruit more from CW than anywhere else these days, makes sense to me from what I know about the shifting of the Scientology population.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

I think it's easier to get people from CW to Austin, maybe from California too. I'm hearing they recruit more from CW than anywhere else these days, makes sense to me from what I know about the shifting of the Scientology population.

i checked for the fun of it, and flight time from CW to Austin is exactly the same as to Chicago - 2hr 40min. driving distance is exactly the same, too.

but i can imagine that Austin might seem like a more attractive place to go. doesn't say much about dedication though, if they're not willing to go where needed, does it? the promo has a point that Chicago has a lot of attractions, i guess i can imagine in CW they may well be following the ideology and propaganda that likes to paint Chicago as virtually a war zone; but the reality is that privileged white people like them could mostly just enjoy the famous amenities of a big city that's continually highly ranked.

it also occurs to me that i'd think Chicago would have an advantage in having a bigger local membership to recruit from, plus NOI -- who are specifically recruiting their own contingent, though then again maybe that itself looks like a downside to those from CW.

 

[Isaac]

having looked at many of the cases, i would say that there is no sign that being stuck with even 6-figure annual tax bills (Philadelphia, and maybe one other at least close) motivates CoS management to do anything -- which seems bizarrely dysfunctional to me (some abandoned buildings must be approaching having cost them more since the purchase, than buying them did -- meanwhile of course the orgs that own them can't afford wages or even toilet paper).

still, a couple of people made the point that taxes should be paid on the property so that at least the city was getting some benefit (and some contribution towards public costs, like sending inspectors out, maybe sidewalk repairs, etc.). and maybe someday will come when the CoS will start to be sensitive to such things, or even do something about it.

It’s called how to get rich using other peoples money, as a tax exempt religious organization hiding behind the religious cloak.
It’s criminal - it’s Scientology 100%

 

[onceuponatime]

i checked for the fun of it, and flight time from CW to Austin is exactly the same as to Chicago - 2hr 40min. driving distance is exactly the same, too.

but i can imagine that Austin might seem like a more attractive place to go. doesn't say much about dedication though, if they're not willing to go where needed, does it? the promo has a point that Chicago has a lot of attractions, i guess i can imagine in CW they may well be following the ideology and propaganda that likes to paint Chicago as virtually a war zone; but the reality is that privileged white people like them could mostly just enjoy the famous amenities of a big city that's continually highly ranked.

it also occurs to me that i'd think Chicago would have an advantage in having a bigger local membership to recruit from, plus NOI -- who are specifically recruiting their own contingent, though then again maybe that itself looks like a downside to those from CW.

I don't think either location has a significant enough local membership to make a difference, but the NOI in Chicago could make a difference. I don't know why they seem to be having so much trouble with Chicago, from the little digging I've done Austin seems like it was much easier to handle.

Yeah, distance wise it isn't that different, but I feel like CW is more similar to Austin than Chicago. I can see Austin being the more attractive place to people who live in CW. Of course it could also be that they started recruiting for Austin in the CW area first, so they snapped up most of the better prospects.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Austin at least thinks they're going to be next -- presumably on the scheduled date of April 15th.

that leaves the question of when Chicago, where there had been much more obvious signs of staff recruiting, will finally open. i'd guess not that much longer, but it still makes DM's claim to open a number of orgs (including 2 foreign ones) in the first quarter a fail.

from Mike Rinder's:

 

[onceuponatime]

Austin at least thinks they're going to be next -- presumably on the scheduled date of April 15th.

that leaves the question of when Chicago, where there had been much more obvious signs of staff recruiting, will finally open. i'd guess not that much longer, but it still makes DM's claim to open a number of orgs (including 2 foreign ones) in the first quarter a fail.

from Mike Rinder's:

Yeah, I saw that a while ago. I'd already been hearing rumors that Chicago was not in fact the next org to open. Seeing that promo piece confirmed things for me (as confirmed as you can get with Scientology, they are notoriously untrustworthy).

Unless they are sneakily opening an org or two today and tomorrow they missed the Q1 mark. Maybe Scientology has a different Q1? They should word-clear "quarter"

 

[Dotey OT]

We talked to a person in the know here in ATL. A person that was on the roster in Atlanta org at the grand opening in April 2016 has now signed on to go to flag and train as a c/s for Chicago org. His five year contact for Atlanta may have run out, we are not sure.

The way that being recruited for a specific post works in the cult is they promise high, like "you are the c/s" before knowing that he would indeed make it through the training, or get ripped off onto another post. It is sort of bait and switch for those in the bubble and oblivious to this tactic. Actually, promising something like that and actually placing him on another post very easily qualifies that lie as "greatest good" and gets a free pass by all involved. Chances are he won't end up as c/s, but they will have him on contract.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

It is sort of bait and switch for those in the bubble and oblivious to this tactic.

can someone who has been on staff for 7 years be so clueless? is it because scn's tactics are so devious, or that those who are left are so gullible like that?

and did the cartoonist Charles Shultz ever work for the CoS, so that he had such insight into staff contracts?

Actually, promising something like that and actually placing him on another post very easily qualifies that lie as "greatest good" and gets a free pass by all involved. Chances are he won't end up as c/s, but they will have him on contract.

and of course they consider their promise to him fungible -- while his to them is inviolable.