The Scientology "Management by Statistics" System

[The_Fixer]

my point is not about exactly how scn orgs work, but that that they fail to manage things in ways that would have been best practices in businesses and other organizations by the '50s or '60s, like tracking just how much business (and profit) an activity such as letters out produced (and, how much labor was expended).



i'm guessing 'using CF' in that context would mean phone calls, in contrast to letters out which as i understand it also uses CF. i have probably been lumping the two together.

yes, i'm pretty sure any of it doesn't produce much these days. but i've run across at least one case for example where they got someone back on lines and buying tens of thousands of dollars worth of services; that was more likely the result of a call than a letter, but I can't remember for certain. and Riddick has said that in his day letters out did occasionally produce a bit more business; and it's likely that back in the era of the '50s and '60s they were even somewhat more productive.

my point here is that i think we can see why the organization has hung onto something, in a pattern typical for scn: it originally was somewhat effective, and even still appears to produce occasional results, so it just ends up getting continued.

and in the end it's not really a proper, comprehensive system of management by statistics, even by the professional standards of the era.

I guess scientology is a classic walking example of what happens to a business that refuses to move with the times.

It would be a bit like strangling a free diver.

They would die from oxygen deprivation, but it takes forever to get there. Most other businesses kark it pretty quick.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

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@Riddick
I am going to jump in here and clarify who my friend Helluva Hoax really is.

He was public. . .

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Thanks, I guess technically speaking you are correct. But just to clarify this for Riddick who was asking me about my history in Scientology--I'll add this additional note.

Riddick, the answer to your question is still that I was never really in Scientology. The confusion about that arose because one day back in the early 1950s I was delivering some admin supplies to Mr. Hubbard at his Phoenix home and he was tied up on some business and asked me to "take a seat" and wait. So I sat down in the waiting room with a number of others who were obviously also waiting.

After about an hour another person entered the waiting room and sat down near me. Actually just a few feet away from me. It was odd, because he positioned his chair facing me and we were just kind of like—looking at each other. He never spoke so I didn't say anything either.

Well, I had to wait another 2 hours and finally asked the receptionist when I would be able to speak with Mr. Hubbard to get his signature on the office supplies I was dropping off. They told me that he had left for the day.

As I was preparing to leave they handed me an envelope and everyone applauded. Odd, right? When i got home later I opened the envelope and there was a completion certificate for the something labeled "HAS". I guess when i was staring at that person in reception for 2 hours it was possibly some kind of course in Scientology?

Riddick, have you ever experienced this kind of phenomena when you went up the levels in Scientology? So as I said before, I was never really in Scientology but technically I guess I completed a course without even realizing it so I unknowingly became "public". As a Scientologist do you happen to know what "has" means or if it is related to the Scientology concept of "havingness"? Thanks.

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[Reyne Mayer]

I guess scientology is a classic walking example of what happens to a business that refuses to move with the times.

except it started out behind the times, based on outdated ideas and methods -- like what Hubbard saw of how the Navy was managed during the wartime period of the '40s. they didn't even implement best practices of the era for managing sales and income, as shown by the example of how they failed to set up a system to actually track the results of CF activity like letters out.

what we see with the CoS is that once established, organizations survive on built up momentum for surprisingly long, even as they fail on a daily basis. look at Sears, they haven't actually made a profit on retail sales in at least a decade or two; they're really a real estate holding company, surviving off built up assets.

 

[onceuponatime]

@Riddick
I am going to jump in here and clarify who my friend Helluva Hoax really is.

HH has been involved in every nook and cranny of SCN.

He was public. He was a sometime Mission Holder. He was staff. He was Sea Org. He was trained on NOTS and
was trained as an auditor and a CS, we went up to OT VII.

He knows whereof he speaks.
It would be foolish for anyone to underestimate just how *EDUCATED* HH is on the cult of SCN

That's all fine and may be true, but what if @HelluvaHoax! no longer identifies as having been a Scientologist or involved in Scientology? I for one support his new identity as someone who has never been involved.

my point is not about exactly how scn orgs work, but that that they fail to manage things in ways that would have been best practices in businesses and other organizations by the '50s or '60s, like tracking just how much business (and profit) an activity such as letters out produced (and, how much labor was expended).



i'm guessing 'using CF' in that context would mean phone calls, in contrast to letters out which as i understand it also uses CF. i have probably been lumping the two together.

yes, i'm pretty sure any of it doesn't produce much these days. but i've run across at least one case for example where they got someone back on lines and buying tens of thousands of dollars worth of services; that was more likely the result of a call than a letter, but I can't remember for certain. and Riddick has said that in his day letters out did occasionally produce a bit more business; and it's likely that back in the era of the '50s and '60s they were even somewhat more productive.

my point here is that i think we can see why the organization has hung onto something, in a pattern typical for scn: it originally was somewhat effective, and even still appears to produce occasional results, so it just ends up getting continued.

and in the end it's not really a proper, comprehensive system of management by statistics, even by the professional standards of the era.

Yeah, I'm specifically talking about writing letters distinct from any other uses of CF (calls/tours would be the other main uses). Those recovery stories you hear are the result of phone calls or tours, not writing letters. Maybe back in the 50s and 60s letters did occasionally produce a result, these days they produce nothing. If letters produced a result/sale anywhere I would've heard about it, the story would've been told everywhere as an example of LRH's genius.

I'm sure writing letters was somewhat effective when they started doing it. My point is these days they do it just because LRH said to do it, they don't even have the occasional result from letter writing. Scientology does not need an occasional success to keep doing something LRH said to do, they will blindly keep doing it even when it isn't producing anything (or even producing negative effects). Their obsession with letter writing is one of the best examples of magical thinking, if we write enough letters we will make GI, LRH said it so it must be true. It doesn't matter that letter writing hasn't produced any products, they just do what LRH said.

Even when LRH was alive Scientology could never adapt. They fell behind the times and stayed there. Luckily they never had a really effective organization, even for the times LRH was alive and managing things directly.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Even when LRH was alive Scientology could never adapt. They fell behind the times and stayed there. Luckily they never had a really effective organization, even for the times LRH was alive and managing things directly.
[/QUOTE]he idea of cent

To be fair centralised files is a good concept. If all correspondence really was filed long with the details of what services etc the person had done it would have worked. It would be computerised. All would be written up, reg int interviews, phone calls from call in etc. But it would never happen. Every department and person in the org (dis org really) is working in competition with every other person or department. Someone working on selling a person a set of books would not want someone else to jump in and get the commission. You would be able to look through someone's file and see that after a reg interview from the body reg the person didn't answer any calls, and started to refuse to go to events. day

In my day reges hid the files of people they were working on.

Org staff are all trying to make it go right despite the rest of their org, everyone is opposed to everyone else. No management system would work in that situation. How it still exists is a mystery to me.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

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That's all fine and may be true, but what if @HelluvaHoax! no longer identifies as having been a Scientologist or involved in Scientology? I for one support his new identity as someone who has never been involved.
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Grateful thanks for the support! I urge you and others to get more involved in the movement by generously donating whatever you can to our non-profit foundation located at: mythetanmychoice.com

My name is Don and my pronouns are "ZE" and "NEW" (reflecting my new and true identity as a "never in"). Sometimes I use both pronouns as a singular hyphenate combination (i.e. 'Ze-New').

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[HelluvaHoax!]

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(snipped for brevity): Every department and person in the org (dis org really) is working in competition with every other person or department. . .In my day reges hid the files of people they were working on.
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LOL!!

It seems that within Scientology "HIDING" is a very popular tone level!

Staff members hide the files of customers. ​

​

Dr. Hubbard & Minister Miscavige hide from investigative reporters, civil litigation, ​

tax fraud audits, process servers, subpoenas and criminal indictments. ​

​

Paying public PCs hide from reges. ​

​

All defrauded Scientologists hide from the truth about the pretend magical powers hoax. ​

The supremely cringy paradox is that Scientology sells for lavishly inflated prices auditing & training guaranteed to raise a being's confront—so that they can look directly at all of life's problems and "erase", "as-is" and "make them vanish". However, even after spending decades and over a half-million dollars, the only thing that vanishes is the Scientologists' sanity (while they are in) and the Scientologists themselves when they blow.

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[Enthetan]

Someone working on selling a person a set of books would not want someone else to jump in and get the commission. You would be able to look through someone's file and see that after a reg interview from the body reg the person didn't answer any calls, and started to refuse to go to events. day

In my day reges hid the files of people they were working on.

So every regular staff member is supposed to be altruistic and work for essentially nothing "to clear the Planet". But SALES personnel are allowed to slit each others throats in pursuit of sales commissions for themselves.

That's one thing that bothered me in the Sea Org, that the FSO regges and bookstore people were able to earn hundreds to THOUSANDS of dollars per week, while we had to be content with regular SO pay.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

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LOL!!

It seems that within Scientology "HIDING" is a very popular tone level!

Staff members hide the files of customers. ​

​

Dr. Hubbard & Minister Miscavige hide from investigative reporters, civil litigation, ​

tax fraud audits, process servers, subpoenas and criminal indictments. ​

​

Paying public PCs hide from reges. ​

​

All defrauded Scientologists hide from the truth about the pretend magical powers hoax. ​

The supremely cringy paradox is that Scientology sells for lavishly inflated prices auditing & training guaranteed to raise a being's confront—so that they can look directly at all of life's problems and "erase", "as-is" and "make them vanish". However, even after spending decades and over a half-million dollars, the only thing that vanishes is the Scientologists' sanity (while they are in) and the Scientologists themselves when they blow.

..

You're so right, it's one of those mistakes that haven't been spotted yet, Hiding is actually at the top of the Tone Scale.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

In theory, management by stats and requiring increases from week to week can work.

Since staff are not properly trained in most cases, they can't accomplish much their first week. In the second week they understand a bit better just what it is they're supposed to do, and so accomplish more (higher stat).

But it soon reaches a point of diminishing returns. One is no longer an incompetent newby, so their stat settles into a "mature" pattern. Since it is not going to be the same each week, it will from time to time be LESS than the previous week.

IMHO one should not be punished for doing slightly less than before. If anything, look at the OVERALL trend, and if it's REALLY going down, find out WHY. The WHY might not be a WHO (like an SP).

Increasing a worker's quota if they happen to have a good week is not limited to the Scientology world.

LRH said the only reason for stats to be down was an earthquake or something like that. Then there was an earthquake in San Francisco -- I half expected HCO to put up a sign saying "no stats this week". It may have been unortodox, but it would have raised morale a lot.

Helena

 

[Enthetan]

But it soon reaches a point of diminishing returns. One is no longer an incompetent newby, so their stat settles into a "mature" pattern. Since it is not going to be the same each week, it will from time to time be LESS than the previous week.

It would only work out in a rapidly expanding org, where the new staff, hitting his limit on his stat, would get promoted and have juniors to manage.

That was the reason the Power condition formula was "write up your hat". If your stats were in power, that meant that you were going to be shifted to a more challenging job.

But in a shrinking and dying org, there is nothing that can be done.

 

[Dotey OT]

When I was involved in div 4, (and I was on staff twice as well as as a long cup of coffee as a so called clear in the sea irk) we were constantly being chopped up due to stats. When stats were up, it was expected, when stats were down, there was a search for the sp in the area. This happened ALL THE TIME. Stats up, Hooray!! Stats down, "let's find the sp!!!" OW write ups, listen the "State of Man" lectures, then write up your o'dubs. Fuck it, go do a sec check. Evil people at the helm of the org. The program that was implemented to handle the stats could take weeks. A reversion was ALWAYS tagged as a success as a result of the program. Idiots could read the vols on stats, conditions, etc. and falsely attribute a Resurgence to the implementation of conditions, etc. In real life, it's a tricky thing, really running a business. In org life it is always attributed to the proper condition and proper handling. Dumb asses. I do not miss that brand of stupidity and shortsightedness.

Go run a business, and live off your success, or starve from your stupidity for awhile. An org is a stupid game that doesn't really have much to do with reality, except for the distorted reality of those that think it's all about clearing the planet, which is a lie. Applying conditions would be a tool if it worked.

In answer to the original question of this thread, I never falsified stats, but saw them "stretched and exagerrated" many times.

In scientologese, my belief is that no one really ever gets out of non-e, and that you could save yourself alot of trouble by only using expanded non-e. Danger was applied many times to those still in non-e. How does that make sense? Oops, never mind, scn is all about not making sense!!

 

[onceuponatime]

To be fair centralised files is a good concept. If all correspondence really was filed long with the details of what services etc the person had done it would have worked. It would be computerised. All would be written up, reg int interviews, phone calls from call in etc. But it would never happen. Every department and person in the org (dis org really) is working in competition with every other person or department. Someone working on selling a person a set of books would not want someone else to jump in and get the commission. You would be able to look through someone's file and see that after a reg interview from the body reg the person didn't answer any calls, and started to refuse to go to events. day

In my day reges hid the files of people they were working on.

Org staff are all trying to make it go right despite the rest of their org, everyone is opposed to everyone else. No management system would work in that situation. How it still exists is a mystery to me.

Sure, a centralized customer database that tracks correspondence, sales, etc. is a great idea, also something many businesses have done forever (in one form or another). This wasn't a new idea or something LRH invented. The way it's done/implemented in Scientology is idiotic. Computers were already coming onto the scene back in the 60s and definitely by the 70s/80s but here they are in 2022 still using paper files for everything.

As you mentioned, the fact that Scientology uses individual statistics means many staff compete with each other within the same org, and then you also have orgs competing with each other, it quickly becomes a mess.

In theory, management by stats and requiring increases from week to week can work.

Since staff are not properly trained in most cases, they can't accomplish much their first week. In the second week they understand a bit better just what it is they're supposed to do, and so accomplish more (higher stat).

But it soon reaches a point of diminishing returns. One is no longer an incompetent newby, so their stat settles into a "mature" pattern. Since it is not going to be the same each week, it will from time to time be LESS than the previous week.

IMHO one should not be punished for doing slightly less than before. If anything, look at the OVERALL trend, and if it's REALLY going down, find out WHY. The WHY might not be a WHO (like an SP).

Increasing a worker's quota if they happen to have a good week is not limited to the Scientology world.

LRH said the only reason for stats to be down was an earthquake or something like that. Then there was an earthquake in San Francisco -- I half expected HCO to put up a sign saying "no stats this week". It may have been unortodox, but it would have raised morale a lot.

Helena

You say management by stats and requiring an increase each week can work, and then talk about not requiring an increase from week to week...

Keeping an eye on the overall trend of things is a good idea. The way it's done in Scientology with tracking so many different things on a weekly basis and requiring the stats to go up every week is completely unworkable. That's Scientology management, what you're talking about isn't Scientology management.

 

[Riddick]

@Riddick
I am going to jump in here and clarify who my friend Helluva Hoax really is.

HH has been involved in every nook and cranny of SCN.

He was public. He was a sometime Mission Holder. He was staff. He was Sea Org. He was trained on NOTS and
was trained as an auditor and a CS, we went up to OT VII.

He knows whereof he speaks.
It would be foolish for anyone to underestimate just how *EDUCATED* HH is on the cult of SCN

ok, that's fine, if you say so. But he doesn't have to belittle me, that's my personal opinion, I think his comments to me are rude.

 

[Riddick]

Even when LRH was alive Scientology could never adapt. They fell behind the times and stayed there. Luckily they never had a really effective organization, even for the times LRH was alive and managing things directly.

To be fair centralised files is a good concept. If all correspondence really was filed long with the details of what services etc the person had done it would have worked. It would be computerised. All would be written up, reg int interviews, phone calls from call in etc. But it would never happen. Every department and person in the org (dis org really) is working in competition with every other person or department. Someone working on selling a person a set of books would not want someone else to jump in and get the commission. You would be able to look through someone's file and see that after a reg interview from the body reg the person didn't answer any calls, and started to refuse to go to events. day

In my day reges hid the files of people they were working on.

Org staff are all trying to make it go right despite the rest of their org, everyone is opposed to everyone else. No management system would work in that situation. How it still exists is a mystery to me.

My response to your quote:

it has sort happened with AI in the computer world and the internet. You know you search for something and then all of the sudden to are getting constant ads on your computer or phone if one has them linked, which is really annoying, something like I searched for brake pads for my car, found a good price, ordered them, they arrived, all good. Next thing you know I'm getting google ads on anything else I search for the brake pads, I mean I bought now a few weeks ago.

Same with scientology letters out, one keeps getting them even though I stopped during any services or have not been in communication with any org, mission, staff, flag, etc.

 

[Riddick]

So every regular staff member is supposed to be altruistic and work for essentially nothing "to clear the Planet". But SALES personnel are allowed to slit each others throats in pursuit of sales commissions for themselves.

That's one thing that bothered me in the Sea Org, that the FSO regges and bookstore people were able to earn hundreds to THOUSANDS of dollars per week, while we had to be content with regular SO pay.

that really bothered me as well at the Mission and Org level. When I was at staff the SF Mission and we were making 50k per week gross income most staff got peanuts, but the bookstore office made big bucks as well as the regs and also as a side note, the Flag regs made big bucks for stealing our public to go to flag and do the flag auditing that was the best on the planet as Debbie Cook would be promoted in the magazines. This is hard to explain as most outsiders would not have a clue.

 

[Riddick]

In theory, management by stats and requiring increases from week to week can work.

Since staff are not properly trained in most cases, they can't accomplish much their first week. In the second week they understand a bit better just what it is they're supposed to do, and so accomplish more (higher stat).

But it soon reaches a point of diminishing returns. One is no longer an incompetent newby, so their stat settles into a "mature" pattern. Since it is not going to be the same each week, it will from time to time be LESS than the previous week.

IMHO one should not be punished for doing slightly less than before. If anything, look at the OVERALL trend, and if it's REALLY going down, find out WHY. The WHY might not be a WHO (like an SP).

Increasing a worker's quota if they happen to have a good week is not limited to the Scientology world.

LRH said the only reason for stats to be down was an earthquake or something like that. Then there was an earthquake in San Francisco -- I half expected HCO to put up a sign saying "no stats this week". It may have been unortodox, but it would have raised morale a lot.

Helena

just so you know there is something going on around the internet known as "quiet quitting" which means basically one does not increase stats in the job they have, compared to a scientology job based on stats. But then again when you join as a staff member at a scientology org, mission, sea org, we all knew our pay was based on income of the entity we joined. That's hard to swallow, but we did it. Anyways,

the "quiet quitting" would not work in the scientology world, your stats are down, PTS or SP hunt.

Here’s why ‘quiet quitting’ could sabotage your entire career (msn.com)

 

[Bill]

When I was involved in div 4, (and I was on staff twice as well as as a long cup of coffee as a so called clear in the sea irk) we were constantly being chopped up due to stats. When stats were up, it was expected, when stats were down, there was a search for the sp in the area. This happened ALL THE TIME. Stats up, Hooray!! Stats down, "let's find the sp!!!" OW write ups, listen the "State of Man" lectures, then write up your o'dubs. Fuck it, go do a sec check. Evil people at the helm of the org. The program that was implemented to handle the stats could take weeks. A reversion was ALWAYS tagged as a success as a result of the program. Idiots could read the vols on stats, conditions, etc. and falsely attribute a Resurgence to the implementation of conditions, etc. In real life, it's a tricky thing, really running a business. In org life it is always attributed to the proper condition and proper handling. Dumb asses. I do not miss that brand of stupidity and shortsightedness.

Go run a business, and live off your success, or starve from your stupidity for awhile. An org is a stupid game that doesn't really have much to do with reality, except for the distorted reality of those that think it's all about clearing the planet, which is a lie. Applying conditions would be a tool if it worked.

In answer to the original question of this thread, I never falsified stats, but saw them "stretched and exagerrated" many times.

In scientologese, my belief is that no one really ever gets out of non-e, and that you could save yourself alot of trouble by only using expanded non-e. Danger was applied many times to those still in non-e. How does that make sense? Oops, never mind, scn is all about not making sense!!

It is very significant that, outside of money makers (reges and book sellers) Scientology is all and only about threats and punishment. Period.

Stats up: Nothing. No rewards, no bonuses, no time off. At best you get "lack of punishment".
Stats down: Threats, punishment, upset.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

It is very significant that, outside of money makers (reges and book sellers) Scientology is all and only about threats and punishment. Period.

Stats up: Nothing. No rewards, no bonuses, no time off. At best you get "lack of punishment".
Stats down: Threats, punishment, upset.

I was thinking about that, why are staff so poorly motivated that the only, apparent, way of getting them working is threats?

I think one of the important factors in staff motivation is contemplating the end result of what they do, a billion year contract makes you feel like you are a slave, trapped beyond foreseeable time, it is completely demoralising. Low pay no personal space, no personal goals for the rest of time, so much like selling your soul to Lucifer. I couldn't even write one followed by the right amount of noughts, was it an English billion or an American Billion anyway?

In a billion years time the oceans may well have evaporated, planet Earth will be unable to support the growing of beans or rice, the sun will have expanded and with everyone on staff busy following 1950s policies no one in Estates Org Earth will have built a ship that could take us to a new home. Hubbard will still be in target two and the little midget man at the top will be starting to look worried, possibly even getting upset and shouty.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

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I think one of the important factors in staff motivation is contemplating the end result of what they do, a billion year contract makes you feel like you are a slave, trapped beyond foreseeable time, it is completely demoralising. Low pay no personal space, no personal goals for the rest of time, so much like selling your soul to Lucifer.
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Yes, you have to give up your life and your dreams and become fully submerged in a hellish have-nothing existence--while trying to convince others and yourself that you are really "winning".

But it's all totally worth it.

"In order to help Ron achieve his dream"

That last sentence was the verbatim motivational stimulus used by Scn management to inspire cult members to passively endure living the life of a "DB".

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