What is Rhetoric?

Riddick

I clap to no man
.


.

LOL

The subtitle (below that banner headline) could be: "A scholar and master of rhetorical persuasion gets really annoyed when people are not persuaded"

.


thanks HH, several times you gave me praise for pointing out the rhetoric Hubbard used but you seem to get on the bandwagon, don't post here on this tread if you don't like my expanding knowledge of rhetoric, it's still alive and taught.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Yes. And so you go on and on and on and on lecturing us on Rhetoric. Could you explain why you feel you must do that?
have you read any of the links I provided on this tread?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
This is one tread of a person who thinks what hubbard used to create a cult. Weather you agree or not, whatever, you don't have to post on this tread.
For the last 5 or so years I believe you have mentioned rhetoric (and/or ethos and pathos) on every tread thread you have posted on ... will you agree to only mention it from now on on THIS thread ... if so, I (and I suspect many others) will agree not to respond?

:)
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
For the last 5 or so years I believe you have mentioned rhetoric (and/or ethos and pathos) on every tread thread you have posted on ... will you agree to only mention it from now on on THIS thread ... if so, I (and I suspect many others) will agree not to respond?

:)
I haven't posted on other treads as of late. Will I agree, nope, I'm a Furyan.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Giving examples that are not related to dianetics and scientology is comparing different things.

Actually, I gave you examples that were related to Scientology. You ignored them.

Here, I'll go ahead and repost one of them, originally posted here. (see the second example):
------------------------------------------------------------------

Is coercive communication utilizing threats considered to be rhetoric?

As an example, you're walking down the street and some thug comes up behind you, puts a gun to your head, and says
"Give me your wallet NOW or you're going to die!"

Another example: You're sitting across from the Ethics Officer in a CoS and he says:
"Riddick, your Ethics folder is huge and as a consequence, I've prepared a CSW for your SP Declare this morning which is going to mess you up for trillions of years. However, If you upgrade your IAS status to Patron with Honors that would demonstrate that you're really not an SP and I would put the CSW through the shredder. What would you like me to do?"
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
Actually, I gave you examples that were related to Scientology. You ignored them.

Here, I'll go ahead and repost one of them, originally posted here. (see the second example):
------------------------------------------------------------------

Is coercive communication utilizing threats considered to be rhetoric?

As an example, you're walking down the street and some thug comes up behind you, puts a gun to your head, and says
"Give me your wallet NOW or you're going to die!"

Another example: You're sitting across from the Ethics Officer in a CoS and he says:
"Riddick, your Ethics folder is huge and as a consequence, I've prepared a CSW for your SP Declare this morning which is going to mess you up for trillions of years. However, If you upgrade your IAS status to Patron with Honors that would demonstrate that you're really not an SP and I would put the CSW through the shredder. What would you like me to do?"
as far as no. 1, that has nothing to do with hubbard, you give apples to oranges comparison. I gave you the link to read:


" Coercion is a form of persuasion that influences people's actions with threats, in certain situations it can be hard to distinguish coercion from persuasion "

as far as no. 2, do you really know if that happened? It never happened to me or my wife, we refused to upgrade.

But if you read:

"
Persuasion or persuasion arts is an umbrella term of influence.

Propaganda is a form of persuasion used to persuade a large audience using for the purposes of the individual or group producing the propaganda.[2]:7 Coercion is a form of persuasion that influences people's actions with threats, in certain situations it can be hard to distinguish coercion from persuasion.[3]:37 Systematic persuasion is the process through which attitudes or beliefs are leveraged by appeals to logic and reason. Heuristic persuasion on the other hand is the process through which attitudes or beliefs are leveraged by appeals to habit or emotion.[4]
Persuasion is studied in many disciplines. Rhetoric is the study of modes of persuasion in speech and writing, and is often taught as a classical subject.[5]:46 Psychology looks at persuasion through the lens of individual behaviour[6] and neuroscience studies the brain activity associated with this behaviour.[7] History and political sciences are interested in the role of propaganda in shaping historical events.[8] In business, persuasion is a process aimed at changing a person's (or a group's) attitude or behaviour toward some event, idea, object, or other person(s), by using written, spoken words or visual tools to convey information, feelings, or reasoning, or a combination thereof.[9] Persuasion is also an often used tool in the pursuit of personal gain, such as election campaigning, giving a sales pitch,[10] or in trial advocacy. Persuasion can also be interpreted as using one's personal or positional resources to change people."

Didn't Hubbard do all that as described above?

Persuasion can attempt to influence a person's beliefs, attitudes, intentions, motivations, or behaviors.[1]
 

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
as far as no. 1, that has nothing to do with hubbard, you give apples to oranges comparison.
That's why I wrote:

Here, I'll go ahead and repost one of them, originally posted here. (see the second example):

But just as in the second example, the first example consists of a threat, coercing someone to turn over their wallet.

The second threat, the Scientology example is even more severe. The persons life isn't being threatened as in the first example, rather their eternity for trillions of years.




as far as no. 2, do you really know if that happened? It never happened to me or my wife, we refused to upgrade.
I know of multiple instances of where people were threatened in a similar way as to the example I provided. It wasn't to upgrade their IAS status but rather as part of regging them for services and in my case personally, I was threatened with an SP Declare if I left staff at Boston Org.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man

If you read this link, lets take up Ethos:


"Ethos
Ethos is appeal based on the character of the speaker. An ethos-driven document relies on the reputation of the author."

So with Dianetics, the author LR Hubbard, drives home a point known as he was a nuclear scientist, an engineer. It turns out with Jerry Armstrong getting a hold of early Hubbard documents that Hubbard never was never an engineer or nuclear scientist, he got failing grades, and he lied..

Why do you think Hubbard said his reputation was to be protected, it was because he wanted his ethos, or character protected.
 

PirateAndBum

Administrator
Staff member
.

Who are you debating? Everyone already agrees that Scientology uses rhetoric (i.e. verbal/written persuasion).

However, every time someone showcases OTHER forms of persuasion that Scientology uses, you ignore their examples and/or insult their intelligence.

That is a very UN-persuasive method you have, especially for a self-proclaimed expert on rhetorical persuasion.

.
He's not very good at rhetoric is he?

Hubbard had a term: hobby-horse. It fits very well.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.

He's good at cut and paste though ... in a competition between @Riddick and @Harold#1 I'm not sure who would win (only joking Riddick ... Harold would win hands down). :)
.

LOL

Harold's cut-n-paste stats are straight up and vertigo! That's what happens when a dizzying tsunami of non-sequitur links/articles are unleashed in the middle of normal people trying to have a conversation.

.
 
Last edited:

Riddick

I clap to no man
He's not very good at rhetoric is he?

Hubbard had a term: hobby-horse. It fits very well.
yah, Hubbard used the term hobby horse. It's from England and he used the term back when at St Hill Manor, the briefing course and early lectures,


"The term 'hobby horse' is used, principally by folklorists, to refer to the costumed characters that feature in some traditional seasonal customs, processions and similar observances around the world. They are particularly associated with May Day celebrations, mummers' plays and the Morris dance in England "

It's kind of funny because you could say Hubbard was a "folkorists". He used rhetoric of going clear and then OT. And yet, it's a folk story.
 
Last edited:

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
yah, Hubbard used the term hobby horse. It's from England and he used the term back when at St Hill Manor, the briefing course and early lectures,


"The term 'hobby horse' is used, principally by folklorists, to refer to the costumed characters that feature in some traditional seasonal customs, processions and similar observances around the world. They are particularly associated with May Day celebrations, mummers' plays and the Morris dance in England "

It's kind of funny because you could say Hubbard was a "folkorists". He used rhetoric of going clear and then OT. And yet, it's a folk story.
.
Interesting etymology of the term "hobby horse", but that is not the appropriate definition or way Hubbard used the term--and it was entirely unrelated to England, St. Hill, folklorists or rhetoric.

The common definition of Hobby Horse Hubbard used is at wiki under: "Hobby Horse (toy)", not the alternate "folklorist" wiki entry of "Hobby Horse". Here is an antique one with wheels.



LINK TO WIKI:
"From "hobby horse" (see Etymology, below) came the expression "to ride one's hobby-horse", meaning "to follow a favourite pastime", and in turn, the modern sense of the term hobby."​
definition:​
hobby horse: 1. a child's toy consisting of a stick with a model of a horse's head at one end. 2. a preoccupation or favorite topic.​
 
Last edited:

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
A good look would be riding the horsie while wearing a full sea org kit.


.
LOL, that photo has an unimaginably cringey dose of pathos!

They each have their own special package of geekiness and one wonders what each would be doing if there had never been a hoax called Scientology--or a billion year contract for sector salvagers dressed up in in fake military costumes just like their beloved mentally ill Commodore.

BEST GUESS WHAT THEY'D EACH BE DOING:

1. Hatless woman in back: Working as the lady in a grocery store (potato chip aisle) who asks you if you want to try a free sample of a new beef jerky product.
2. Tall guy with glasses: Working in a

I had to stop. I thought it was going to be fun—but it was actually too creepy to keep looking at these people, LOL.

.
 
Last edited:

Riddick

I clap to no man
.
LOL, that photo has an unimaginably cringey dose of pathos!

They each have their own special package of geekiness and one wonders what each would be doing if there had never been a hoax called Scientology--or a billion year contract for sector salvagers dressed up in in fake military costumes just like their beloved mentally ill Commodore.

BEST GUESS WHAT THEY'D EACH BE DOING:

1. Hatless woman in back: Working as the lady in a grocery store (potato chip aisle) who asks you if you want to try a free sample of a new beef jerky product.
2. Tall guy with glasses: Working in a

I had to stop. I thought it was going to be fun—but it was actually too creepy to keep looking at these people, LOL.

.
actually, that picture is an appeal to ethos, the Sea Org being the most ethical people on the planet and entrusted to carrying out Hubbard's mission of clearing a planet, a star high goal.

"What is ethos in simple words?
Here's a quick and simple definition: Ethos, along with logos and pathos, is one of the three "modes of persuasion" in rhetoric (the art of effective speaking or writing). Ethos is an argument that appeals to the audience by emphasizing the speaker's credibility and authority."

A sea org member is supposed to have credibility and authority, and they did when we were members. Not being a member anymore, they have no authority or credibility with me, and I reckon lots of other people too who have left.

If you were on staff, whenever the Sea Org came to visit the Mission or Org, it has a nightmare, we all had to do what these Sea Org people said we had to do because we were taught (persuaded) the Sea Org had authority and were credible people who we thought knew what they were doing.
 
Top