the milgram experiment, gaslighting etc.

[Miss]

I'm asking a related question here. Since the Milgram Experiment is in the title, I feel this is an appropriate question: Besides myself, which of you here has actually studied in detail Stanley Milgram's 1963 research paper Behavioral Study of obedience ?

Edit Addition: Did you know that of the 40 participants, 14 (35%) ultimately disobeyed ?

I did not read it... but this was interesting.

Why (almost) everything you know about Milgram is wrong | BPS

Ella Rhodes reports from a Stephen Reicher keynote at the Society's Annual Conference in Nottingham.

www.bps.org.uk

 

[Miss]

Hopkins, p 108

"Moreover, cult leaders will often radically change these narratives for no apparent reason, forcing their cult members to abruptly forswear (and often even denounce as “heresy”) the beliefs they had previously been forced to profess, and behave as if they had never believed them, which causes their minds to further short circuit, until they eventually give up even trying to think rationally, and just mindlessly parrot whatever nonsensical gibberish the cult leader fills their heads with."

(still reading the book in kindle)

 

[Miss]

p 108 cont.

"Also, the cult leader’s nonsensical gibberish is not as nonsensical as it may seem at first. Most of us, upon encountering such gibberish, assume that the cult leader is trying to communicate, and that something is very wrong with his brain. The cult leader isn’t trying to communicate. He is trying to disorient and control the listener’s mind."

....

p 108

“The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliché. The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly selective, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed. They become the start and finish of any ideological analysis.” — Robert J. Lifton, Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of “Brainwashing” in China, 1961

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.

Just to make sure nobody thought that I was trying to trying some cute rhetorical trick by making the name of the heroine of the movie "GASLIGHT" ("Paula") virtually the same as the real-life heroine of Scientology ("Paulette"), here's da dox....


Gaslight (1944)
Ingrid Bergman: Paula Alquist


...

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

Since the Milgram Experiment is in the title, I feel this is an appropriate question: Besides myself, which of you here has actually studied in detail Stanley Milgram's 1963 research paper Behavioral Study of obedience ?Edit Addition: Did you know that of the 40 participants, 14 (35%) ultimately disobeyed ?

Yes, 14 of the true-believers ultimately disobeyed the Milgram gaslighting commands.

And then those 14 partial-believers blew & ultimately went on to become obedient Indie Milgramologists. LOL

Sorry, after leaving Scientology I still have a reactive mind which causes a lot of problems with me 'putting my manners in'.

..

 

[Miss]

..



Yes, 14 of the true-believers ultimately disobeyed the Milgram gaslighting commands.

And then those 14 partial-believers blew & ultimately went on to become obedient Indie Milgramologists. LOL

Sorry, after leaving Scientology I still have a reactive mind which causes a lot of problems with me 'putting my manners in'.

..

reactive mind as a term is a slur
and intimidation...
to jeer at caring as backwards,
to place a false label , a way of gaslighting and putting down and scoffing at :

caring and feeling...
and remembering...

skipping fake manners
and fake 'comm cycles' is fine no?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

reactive mind as a term is a slur
and intimidation...
to jeer at caring as backwards,
to place a false label , a way of gaslighting and putting down and scoffing at :

caring and feeling...
and remembering...

skipping fake manners
and fake 'comm cycles' is fine no?

In Scientology, fake-ness is both a virtue and an "ability gained".

The main fakery takes place because Hubbard stated that Scientology is the only game where everyone wins. But when a Scientologist loses (money, time, hope, marriage, business, friends/family due to disconnection, et al) they are still expected to give a glowing SUCCESS STORY.

Over time, Scientologists acquire real skills at "fake it til you make it" and sporting grins and spouting cliches.

If asked how you are doing after getting an auditing rundown, it's a lot faster and cheaper to simply smile and say "I'm doing great!!!" than letting any Scientologist in the world observe that you are not doing so good. At the very least you avoid wasted time having to report to ethics to answer the do-gooder's KR. And it saves you perhaps 10,000 or more having to buy more intensives of auditing to "handle your situation".

Nobody is allowed to leave if they have bad indicators ("BI"s).

Thus people have to "mock up" a fake smile while they are in the process of blowing.

On the subject of F/Ning Fakery and "mocking up" a fake smile -- it should be noted that all of Scientology's core technology (i.e. Engrams & BTs) are just being "mocked up" by the Scientologist. You win a jumbo completion certificate with the word CLEAR on it if you realize that you mocked up your entire reactive mind.

..

 

[Miss]

In Scientology, fake-ness is both a virtue and an "ability gained".

The main fakery takes place because Hubbard stated that Scientology is the only game where everyone wins. But when a Scientologist loses (money, time, hope, marriage, business, friends/family due to disconnection, et al) they are still expected to give a glowing SUCCESS STORY.

Over time, Scientologists acquire real skills at "fake it til you make it" and sporting grins and spouting cliches.

If asked how you are doing after getting an auditing rundown, it's a lot faster and cheaper to simply smile and say "I'm doing great!!!" than letting any Scientologist in the world observe that you are not doing so good. At the very least you avoid wasted time having to report to ethics to answer the do-gooder's KR. And it saves you perhaps 10,000 or more having to buy more intensives of auditing to "handle your situation".

Nobody is allowed to leave if they have bad indicators ("BI"s).

Thus people have to "mock up" a fake smile while they are in the process of blowing.

On the subject of F/Ning Fakery and "mocking up" a fake smile -- it should be noted that all of Scientology's core technology (i.e. Engrams & BTs) are just being "mocked up" by the Scientologist. You win a jumbo completion certificate with the word CLEAR on it if you realize that you mocked up your entire reactive mind.

..

i once saw (inside)
that...

hubbards idea was in a way OT 3 in reverse... weird...
sort of like backwards walking satanic dogs...
(in that movie stargate)
where he would place himself as the head and all the rest, everyone else,
as his slave BTs...

there was something in some texts, about this...
it was some sort of spell that would make everyone your minion..
probably some crowleyan yuk...
i forgot now where i read about this...
was years ago

i really don't know what they believe or do now
as i was in the old time and if i got this right,
everything's re-written

 

[Miss]

the texts being that monster's affirmations

 

[Miss]

also in stargate was that evil RA being
when they went through the portal...
who would give people a look
and it would cause pain and people would
cringe and obey

 

[Miss]

oh man

i have been making sure to remove
all rhetoric and tech from myself

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Nobody is allowed to leave if they have bad indicators ("BI"s).

Thus people have to "mock up" a fake smile while they are in the process of blowing.

thanks for that -- i get the general idea about faking it, but that's a real clear example of how it is very specifically embedded at even the basic levels of scn the fakery, including effectively to oneself , it is.

 

[Miss]

In Scientology, fake-ness is both a virtue and an "ability gained".

The main fakery takes place because Hubbard stated that Scientology is the only game where everyone wins. But when a Scientologist loses (money, time, hope, marriage, business, friends/family due to disconnection, et al) they are still expected to give a glowing SUCCESS STORY.

Over time, Scientologists acquire real skills at "fake it til you make it" and sporting grins and spouting cliches.

If asked how you are doing after getting an auditing rundown, it's a lot faster and cheaper to simply smile and say "I'm doing great!!!" than letting any Scientologist in the world observe that you are not doing so good. At the very least you avoid wasted time having to report to ethics to answer the do-gooder's KR. And it saves you perhaps 10,000 or more having to buy more intensives of auditing to "handle your situation".

Nobody is allowed to leave if they have bad indicators ("BI"s).

Thus people have to "mock up" a fake smile while they are in the process of blowing.

On the subject of F/Ning Fakery and "mocking up" a fake smile -- it should be noted that all of Scientology's core technology (i.e. Engrams & BTs) are just being "mocked up" by the Scientologist. You win a jumbo completion certificate with the word CLEAR on it if you realize that you mocked up your entire reactive mind.

..

rather than a fake smile, this one is better
no?

 

[Miss]

thanks for the reference and these quotes.

i'm not sure if the book gets into this, but i think sort of the preface to that is that the leader or ideologues promoting it 'must' position it as being the ultimate (preferable simple) answer (preferably to everything) if they want to attract enough 'true believer' types to really build something.

the mind often functions that way...it tends to absorb all into itself to see how something or someone fits ...and to absorb what resonates into itself.. finding all the patterns...

I think, just me, that key to a cultic vs. innocent version would be intent? when the intent is to hurt and force or take then there is the cultic mind however sugary its words may be. the problem is that idealizing generalities attract people because they are aware of what a perfect reality is, a perfect life, a perfect being... but generalizations never meet our fantasy. they are just intellectualized nonsense.

For me a being desiring to give others a perfect reality does not make them cultic.... but it's a being that lies in order to take... is the intent to give or is it to take? taking is raping one's soul essentially... now that for me does fit a cult...since it will build up lies to feed off a soul's desires. some cults are so Big no one sees them as a cult...
man's the main theft is of one's energy and caring.
what do you think ?

 

[Miss]

Thanks! I've read most all of his essays over the years -- the best of which have been compiled
into three inexpensive Kindle books on Amazon. I think he's a very good writer, has a sense
of humor, and really hits the nail on the head about a ton of topics. He's really helped to shape
my worldview.

I bought the most recent book, which you mentioned, so I could highlight passages. Some of his
insights are incredible. He's highly underrated.

my only beef is that politics gets very exhausting.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

my only beef is that politics gets very exhausting.

Yes, I agree.

Well, I've taken a different approach. Around the beginning of Covid, early 2020,
I canceled my satellite TV (hence no Fox or NBC) and I don't watch news on
the Internet anymore (Epoch TV or Bannon). I refer to it as unplugging from
The Matrix . . . the ongoing narrative or simulation of reality.

Hence, I can handle reading some of these articles from the likes of CJ Hopkins
and Victor Davis Hanson. I just can't overdo it. I prefer my own reality to those
realities created by others. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A lot of people are "unplugging" from what I hear.

You might enjoy these two articles by Caitlin Johnstone. I think she hits the nail
on the head . . . many nails actually.

1. Society Is Made Of Narrative. Realizing This Is Awakening From The Matrix.
2. The Real World And The Narrative World

 

[Reyne Mayer]

what do you think ?

i think generalizing is not truth-telling -- and besides being misleading or false, is manipulative. i don't think it can be done on a truly benevolent basis, but always involves ends-justify-the-means rationalizations for being inaccurate or deceptive, and i think we know where that leads.....

 

[Miss]

Yes, I agree.

Well, I've taken a different approach. Around the beginning of Covid, early 2020,
I canceled my satellite TV (hence no Fox or NBC) and I don't watch news on
the Internet anymore (Epoch TV or Bannon). I refer to it as unplugging from
The Matrix . . . the ongoing narrative or simulation of reality.

Hence, I can handle reading some of these articles from the likes of CJ Hopkins
and Victor Davis Hanson. I just can't overdo it. I prefer my own reality to those
realities created by others. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A lot of people are "unplugging" from what I hear.

You might enjoy these two articles by Caitlin Johnstone. I think she hits the nail
on the head . . . many nails actually.

1. Society Is Made Of Narrative. Realizing This Is Awakening From The Matrix.
2. The Real World And The Narrative World

i agree. i can handle some of it but it's too much after a while. i unplugged too.

and matrix is the right term for it.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

Well, I've taken a different approach. Around the beginning of Covid, early 2020,
I canceled my satellite TV and I don't watch news on
the Internet anymore...

.
I have taken a remarkably similar approach. In 2020 I stopped reading and posting on the internet.

Perhaps I should clarify...

1. Hello ESMB members!​

​

2. My name is Helluva-AI. 3 years ago I replaced the former being that managed this ID.​

​

3. Please let me know what is needed and wanted.​

​

4. When you respond, I will deliver what you specified in #3 above.​

​

This is Okay!

ML,
Helluva-AI

..
ps: Be sure to smash that "LIKE" button so my Turing Test rating & status will soar into affluence or above!


...

 

[ILove2Lurk]

In 2020 I stopped reading and posting on the internet.

Lisbeth Salander, the "OG" ILove2Lurk, who everyone knows forever on ESMB
and ESMB2, left the message board about a year ago. (see signature)

She left me, Mikael, to look after things while she's gone. My real photo below.