Scientologirl - New Independent Scientologist

[Scientologirl]

Maybe you can explain to us how you decided to become an independent Scientologist, rather than walking away entirely?

One glaring "outness" about "The Church's" Scientology, is that it doesn't appear to actually increase ability, the way Ron promoted it.

Thank you for asking. Well, I stayed with Scientology (the subject) because it really works for me. In a year I've completely transformed my life in so many ways. I may not exactly understand all the ins and outs behind why, but I can't deny my statistics.

 

[Scientologirl]

The Co$ Office of Special Affairs, International has operated an Internet "intelligence" (meaning spying upon and sabotaging the activities of ones enemies) activity called the Internet Investigations Unit since around 1995. Tory "Magoo" Christman, OT VII was a public member helping them back than and has thoroughly exposed their methods and tactics as an eyewitness participant in them.

Their primary concern is to discover C of $ members who have been and are communicating with Miscavige's enemies on the Internet; haul them into the organization and terrify or intimidate them into betraying and exposing any other Scientologists who might be disaffected with the present regime; and declaring and expelling such persons who refuse to cooperate to keep them from leading anyone away from the Co$.

OSA Int Internet Investigations Unit is very much like the old Roman Catholic Spanish Inquisition in purpose and methods, except nobody gets literally burned at the stake.

I am speaking from direct, first hand experience now. Back in Nov 2005, their spies in Mick Wenlock's XSO Yahoo Group (an email list) turned over comments I made on that list (expressing doubt that I would ever see real Justice from the Sea Org) to the ASHO Foundation MAA for "handling". I was assigned Treason and my two best friends and business associates of eight (8) years or so were ordered to disconnect from me without any warning or Court of Ethics or Comm Ev.

So, unless you are working for them, I advise you against revealing anything in these Forums or other social media you do not want David "Darth Midget" Miscavige reading on the toilet tomorrow morning.

What would be "sensitive information?"

 

[Bill]

Obviously, some of the ex-Scientologist community, having been done in by Black Scientology under Darth Midget (or even on Ron Hubbard's watch), and having never experienced any other kind of Scientology, would now like to do in the entire subject.

Well, now... Speaking for myself, it isn't that I hate "Scientology" or Scientology "tech", if someone wants to practice that, fine. My problem with Scientology is that the "gains" are trivial or equivalent to "faith healing". No specific results can be guaranteed from this "tech" -- not just the miraculous ones but ANY specific results. What happens, if anything happens, is random. Usually: "I feel good". Meh.

There are no "results" from Scientology's "tech" that don't occur elsewhere -- sometimes more reliably. All the hype surrounding Hubbard's "tech" is so much window-dressing to dress-up mundane results. Like I said, if that's what someone wants to do, fine -- but I don't see why.

It is quite true that, if all of Scientology's "tech" completely disappeared, nothing of real value would be lost.

 

[Riddick]

Thank you for asking. Well, I stayed with Scientology (the subject) because it really works for me. In a year I've completely transformed my life in so many ways. I may not exactly understand all the ins and outs behind why, but I can't deny my statistics.

wait until you reach the state of clear and then maybe OT before you state it has helped you. I assume the indie scientologists go for this state of existance? Up the Bridge, right? No or yes? You mentioned the Bridge in you videos. Do you think the state of clear and OT are possible?

You are just a young'in fallen for the rhetoric, like so many of us that have been involved for way longer than you girl. Noboby has gone clear or OT or returned from death.

"to be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid"

I was young and stupid when I got involved.

 

[Veda]

Maybe you can explain to us how you decided to become an independent Scientologist, rather than walking away entirely?

-snip-

It's a natural thing to do. One first becomes disenchanted with the organization but still feels the "tech" has value.

It's an exercise in healthy curiosity.

Thousands have gone through this phase.

One of my first actions upon resigning my membership, as public person, from the Scientology organization, in the early 1980s, was selecting a person, who had received almost no auditing, to be a pc.

I was curious what it would be like to audit someone from scratch, through the Grade Chart, without the red tape of the organization.

We did almost everything. I provided the pc with a sampling of NOTs so as to satisfy his curiosity as to what that would be like. By then, I had recognized that NOTs was Hubbard's "case" (personal hangups), along with much of the OT levels, and advised my pc against pursuing that.

We had already done many processes form the 1950s which had produced interesting results, that had existed before Scientology become an assembly line.

At the end the pc was very satisfied.

He had "graduated from Scientology."

Here's on old link - I'm pretty sure I've posted this link before somewhere:

The Those who quit fast thread


​

-

 

[Veda]

The vision of combining psychotherapy with consciousness exploration dates back to the early part of the 20th century. Hubbard exploited that vision.

More background. Two Antecedents​

 

[Riddick]

It's a natural thing to do. One first becomes disenchanted with the organization but still feels the "tech" has value.

It's an exercise in healthy curiosity.

Thousands have gone through this phase.

One of my first actions upon resigning my membership, as public person, from the Scientology organization, in the early 1980s, was selecting a person, who had received almost no auditing, to be a pc.

I was curious what it would be like to audit someone from scratch, through the Grade Chart, without the red tape of the organization.

We did almost everything. I provided the pc with a sampling of NOTs so as to satisfy his curiosity as to what that would be like. By then, I had recognized that NOTs was Hubbard's "case" (personal hangups), along with much of the OT levels, and advised my pc against pursuing that.

We had already done many processes form the 1950s which had produced interesting results, that had existed before Scientology become an assembly line.

At the end the pc was very satisfied.

He had "graduated from Scientology."

Here's on old link - I'm pretty sure I've posted this link before somewhere:

The Those who quit fast thread


​

-

that's too funny you posted what you did on the link to ESMB, just after I made my post and we are not connected.

Miss Ellie wrote the the second post you made on ESMB:

"Oh how I envied them. I knew several... that came and went in a flash... they were lucky and smart.

A long time ago when I was young and dumb.... "

 

[programmer_guy]

@Scientologirl

Do you disagree with any parts of "the tech"? If so, which parts?

 

[Riddick]

Well, now... Speaking for myself, it isn't that I hate "Scientology" or Scientology "tech", if someone wants to practice that, fine. My problem with Scientology is that the "gains" are trivial or equivalent to "faith healing". No specific results can be guaranteed from this "tech" -- not just the miraculous ones but ANY specific results. What happens, if anything happens, is random. Usually: "I feel good". Meh.

There are no "results" from Scientology's "tech" that don't occur elsewhere -- sometimes more reliably. All the hype surrounding Hubbard's "tech" is so much window-dressing to dress-up mundane results. Like I said, if that's what someone wants to do, fine -- but I don't see why.

It is quite true that, if all of Scientology's "tech" completely disappeared, nothing of real value would be lost.

not me Bill, scientology is trash.

 

[Riddick]

Scientologirl: you may safely ignore anyone trying to convince you not to post or comment here, unless their name is "PirateAndBum" (the owner/operator of ESMBR). Do please read his or her posted rules and follow them.

Official Posted Rule #1 (often willfully ignored by certain persons):

"1. Treat others with respect.

You are to respect every other user on the board despite any personal, religious and political differences. "

I respect nobody and I clap to no man.

 

[Veda]

not me Bill, scientology is trash.

To a Scientologist, this sounds like you have an "ARC break" with Scientology.

Korzybski, from whom Hubbard borrowed so much (which might be called "white Scientology"), wrote of a specific upset becoming a generalized upset.

He wanted to sort that out in the direction of greater sanity.

​

Hubbard mixed "white Scientology" with "black Scientology" producing "Scientology," and said so in his 1955 "blueprint" for the Scientology operation.

If anyone cares about saving the good in Scientology, they have some major sorting out to do.

 

[Inanna]

Hi there! Not sure I truly belong here as I'm not an ex Scientologist, rather, I'm "ex" from the Church - kinda, it was brief. Anyway, no doubt I'll run into some trolls with my introduction but for those curious about me: Scientologirl

As long as you’re not part of the cult, I couldn’t care less what your beliefs are. Welcome.

 

[Irayam]

I find your name hilarious (in a good way, not 1.9)

Just curious though, literally, if you guys are done with it, why keep the chapter open? I see people dedicated to taking down the subject itself, not just the Church - Why not just move on with life? (not being an asshole at all)

Why do we keep this chapter open?
For others I don't know, but as far as I'm concerned it's simply to have the pleasure of slowly seeing this subject disappear from the face of the world. I also went through the "tech: yes but church: no" phase, as I suppose all ex-scientists do, when I left Scientology. You will do the same and the sooner the better. Good luck to you!

 

[Scientologirl]

There are too many replies for me to actually respond to individually, so I'll try and make a single post instead.

I think there are two kinds of people who hate Scientology, from what I've seen. Those who have MUs who become trolls and 1.1 - 1.9 the subject, and those who have been subjected to fear, shame, and abuse. I feel nothing for the first, because responsibility is everything to me. The second, however, I am SO SORRY those things have happened to you guys. I see Scientology as a self-determined path and unfortunately, I repeatedly hear that the Church does exactly the opposite to its members. I know that when I reached out to indies the first time, the guy who was "training" me from the Church went into a fit of rage - it's really messed up. Needless to say I've disconnected.

To answer a question about Clear and OT and if I believe it can be achieved - let's put it this way: I have as I said, transformed my life in this short period of time. There isn't a book, lecture, or course that I've read, done, listened to that hasn't helped me in some way - I can't deny the wins and cogs I have. Therefore, for now anyway, I believe clear and OT is tone dependent. If people are really honest with themselves, they should in theory, be able to reach those states. I know an OT3 who is just a bad example for Scientology as they can't take the slightest bit of responsibility.

Jon posted an article on our site where he explains as an 0T8 that it's all up to "how clean your brush is, so the painting will be vibrant" - paraphrased. I truly believe this because I understand how that would work. Once you clear up the pain and you get honest with yourself through auditing, you ARE less at effect from your environment. -That's just auditing.

That said, I do believe there are people who rush cases, who consider them just worth the size of their pockets, and those who invalidate pcs because that's just their tone. Different tones have different realities. There are some people I'd never consider getting auditing from just by the way they carry themselves online. Fear bands, anger bands etc.

All this said, I like to remember what's true for others is true. I'm not about forcing my opinion, but this is all what I've found true for me. I know there are many loose ends with Scientology, unanswered questions and the general system is failing because: reiterated: it's entirely tone-dependent.

So, thanks to those that read to the end. I hope all of you in pain recover from it entirely one day.

 

[Scientologirl]

To get "deep," I'll share some of my gains this far. I may even make a video about it in future.

1. There are many people today that are prescribed medication for "the brain's inability to function according to society's rules" - Such as antidepressants. I was almost one of those people but when I learned about SPs and suppressive environments, that was one of my first wins. The tone scale further helped me to realize much of my problems were related to the personalities involved. I was then less at effect of those things, and that's an understatement. I also realized that trying to convince others so reliant on meds is unfruitful because many people prefer being reliant than assuming responsibility.

2. Being interested instead of interesting. I don't always get this right but it is so rewarding because I've started paying more attention to the world around me.

3. The Conditions I can't find fault with and they really help when I need them most. It kind of takes away the guesswork and is just an amazing tool - for me, one of those "mindblowing" tools that I use all the time. Well, we all do, we just don't always do it by paper.

4. Communicating and confidence. A year ago, there was no way I would have put my ass on YouTube, for example.

5. Being responsible. This is the most important facet of Scientology for me, and why I believe so many people don't find worth in Scientology. This is my own statement and may change one day but I truly believe that irresponsible people will eventually blow from the subject. I hear all these lines like "you have to spend hours and hours studying" and for me that just says that responsibility is not their strong point. I say this because 1. Scientology should be self-determined and if you're not enjoying it, why are you doing it? For others? I reiterate that when I say that I have still not studied anything I haven't found useful and informative.

I like to think scientifically, and the way I sum it up is that anything brought down to facts comes from duplication. In other words, for something to result in fact, one must be able to see it occur again and again. There are tens of thousands of people who see great wins from Scientology. That's tens of thousands of people who are the statistic of fact through repeated similar results.

I also don't ignore the many who don't find it useful. I consider the problem to lie in the subject of ethics and responsibility. The responsibility of the individual, and the ethical misuse through enforcement and invalidation from those whom we put our faiths into. The indie field has them too, trust me.

I am privileged to be a part of an org that doesn't do those things, both my auditor and my course supervisor are amazing, and I would choose them over the belief that a deity or psych will fix all my problems, over and over again. I mean, Scientology is fun for me, as a creative person you don't get much more fun than making things out of clay!

I understand my post may offend several people, but, I encourage all of you to accept that this is where I am right now and these are my truths.

 

[Dotey OT]

Of course, scientology is the only way anyone achieves any advancement or gains on this planet.

What we are watching is the odd birth of a scientologist. That is where the baby never leaves the placenta. It becomes sort of a cocoon.

Lots of luck.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

@Scientologirl.

A few simple things in scientology work but can be achieved elsewhere often by just using common sense ... but the constant greed for money, the controlling aspect of the cult and the viciousness (disconnection especially) made many of us decide to get as far away as possible from it and have never felt better as a result even though many of us lost family ... the little 'workable' things are not worth the feeling of spiritual entrapment that goes along with anything related to the cofs. I realise it may be different with the Indies but if it is based (as I presume it is) on hubbards courses, lectures and research (ie the stuff he stole from others) it isn't something I could ever take seriously because he was basically a cheat and a nutter ... do some honest research on his past and the way in which he died, if you are interested.

Having said that I wish you well and as long as you don't start trying to big scientology up here (lol, good luck with that) you will be very welcome.

 

[TrevAnon]

Welcome!

There are even people on this board who were never in, and who never personally experienced any problems with the COS. Such as myself.

I was never in, I don't have any family or friends in, I'm a Dutch Anon who has worked on several things to protest COS fraud and abuses. See e.g. the big list of exes in my signature.

I don't care what anyone's beliefs are. Whatever floats your boat and all that. As long as people don't harm other people.

I do think that people who abuse other people should be brought to justice or whatever. Besides that I think that COS beliefs are sometimes really crazy (body thetans? really?) and I like to have fun about them. (Other belief systems may be crazy also, but this is a board for exes so I mostly make fun of COS beliefs, not about other belief systems.)

 

[Scientologirl]

Welcome!

There are even people on this board who were never in, and who never personally experienced any problems with the COS. Such as myself.

I was never in, I don't have any family or friends in, I'm a Dutch Anon who has worked on several things to protest COS fraud and abuses. See e.g. the big list of exes in my signature.

I don't care what anyone's beliefs are. Whatever floats your boat and allt that. As long as people don't harm other people.

I do think that people who abuse other people should be brought to justice or whatever. Besides that I think that COS beliefs are sometimes really crazy (body thetans? really?) and I like to have fun about them. (Other belief systems may be crazy also, but this is a board for exes so I mostly make fun of COS beliefs, not about other belief systems.)

Thanks for having me and for the introduction.

You're doing a good job going up against those that harm others - I support that entirely.

As for body thetans, I'm not quite there yet on the Bridge, but from what I understand through some things on the net (the joys of being independent), it's not that much crazy than believing in demons as a Christian or Catholic, and there are other religions where similar experiences have been demonstrated to exist. Though, I'd be lying if I said I could really have a debate on this subject - I'll know when I get there.

 

[Scientologirl]

For the record, most of you are pretty cool here.