New OT levels vs Original OT levels

Chuck J.

Gregory the American
lol...
>> LRH correctly stated that absolutes are unattainable. And the notion of "clear" is an absolute.

I never got to thank David for his assistance. I recall standing in his office at the Fort Harrison while I was on a c/s internship when he was senior c/s. We were having a "discussion" about some case or some shit, as it were. At one point, he looked me square in the eye and said... and I quote, "I never make mistakes." He said it with a straight face, except for the vein bulging in his forehead. Fortunately, I was not sipping a coffee at that moment, or there would have been a fatal spit take accident. My mind raced, from the darkness a shot rang out. The entire galaxy was sucked into my left hear and swirled around my head. The thought in my head gained a clear and well formed idea. The thought was, "oh... I see how it is. you are out of your fucking mind." At that point I attained a new, hithertoo unsuspected state of Clear, the State of Kiss My Ass. It might have ended up differently. It might have taken decades to achieve that state, or never at all, had he not shared that one little assertion.

Thanks David, it's the little things. ( no pun intended )


That's interesting. The "one timer" as it were. A flash of realization and things are changed.

Usually with me it's an accumulation of low key observations that over time I have to compare and make a conclusion from.
Although, I did have a couple "Ted, you are literally a f*cking psycho" dawning thoughts in my interactions with the always nutty Super-Regge Ted Bragin.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Well-known member
I got a lot out of OT1 when I ran it, and maybe should have stayed there and not done any more on the Bridge (or at least not anything further up).

Am I right in saying that the old OT levels (post OT III) were mainly about exteriorisation - they were intended to get people operating as thetans outside of the body and stable in that state? I once knew someone who had done them and he said they didn't do anything for him, but someone else he knew had got better results.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Oh snap, Veda. Ya, he was the Big Kahuna in the late '70's while I was there. Brian Livingston was the intern sup, Dennis Erlich was the cramming officer along with Jeff Walker as I recall. A few of us all went to Flag at about the same time for training, Ray Mithoff, James Fiducia and myself.
I think James was the first one back to LA, then me. Ray took much longer to return, and it wasn't long before he would be sent back to Flag to replace Mayo as senior c/s, now disgraced and effectively "dead agented". Karen was sent to CC to replace Ray as senior c/s. Good times, good times. Something was up towards the middle of my c/s internship. I walked in one day and sat down at the desk, opened a folder, only to find the
my c/s instructions marked "Very Well Done, LRH". I was like, "wtf?". It then became a regular thing.
Now I know I said I never got to thank Mayo, but I did make the drive up to Santa Barbara after I was out. Rented a car so nobody could track my license plates. I sat there and listened to him speak to about 50 or 60 people.... with Bob Mithoff nailed to my side ( Bob... the inside spy that everyone knew was an inside spy ). I was only there to gloat, and gloat I did. I did get to say hello, but I figured it would be a social faux pas to
do a happy dance, and after all, he was still "never wrong". Right?
We had different vantage points.

I was never under him in an organization. By the time he had ascended to Senior Case Supervisor International (or shorty thereafter), I was already incompatible with Scientology Inc., but had not yet fully recognized (admitted to myself) that incompatibility. Various people I knew were still involved with Scientology Inc., so I had a steady flow of information and documents, but I was no longer IN Scientology Inc.

To me, at the time, David Mayo seemed to be a kind of interlocutor between Hubbard and the masses. It seemed that Hubbard would make a "discovery," or utter something, and Mayo's job was to present it in a manner that made it acceptable and desirable.

By 1980, Hubbard had been exposed widely as an amoral and immoral mastermind of a wacky cult, so, presto!, Hubbard wrote - or dictated - a "common sense moral code," and became the expert on morality.

Since it was something new from Hubbard, it was David Mayo's job to make it appealing and package it as a new Rundown that can be sold in HGCs.

Problem was, it was a PR handling to begin with, to protect Hubbard's and Scientology's "image." Making it into a Rundown didn't quite fit. It certainly didn't appeal to me.

Then there were Hubbard's pronouncements on "Clear" circa 1978, and the accompanying confusion. David Mayo, in 1981, finally wrote something about the Harmonics of Clear, for which he was later hammered by Hubbard.

Then came the Mission Holder's Conference of late '82, and Senior C/S Int. Mayo, and ED Int. Bill Franks, siding with the Mission Holders. Each was unaware that Hubbard had already decided the Mission Holders were mutineers and wanted them looted and crushed, and he also wanted their public and their bank accounts.

Then, Hubbard ordered that Mayo be taken to the southern California desert, where he was C/Sed, remotely, by Hubbard, and ordered to run around a bright red telephone pole all day in the summer heat. The bright red color was supposed to re-stimulate a whole track implant.

Finally, Mayo escaped, was declared a Suppressive Person, and set up own group. Around that time, The Story of a Squirrel was sent to Scientologists far and wide, which only succeeded in making Scientology Inc. seem more insane.

Ultimately, David Mayo ceased being any kind of Scientologist, but it took years for the conditioning to completely wear off.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Ultimately, David Mayo ceased being any kind of Scientologist, but it took years for the conditioning to completely wear off.
Didn't he try to transform the concepts of auditing into a Metapsychology book in the mid-nineties (~1995)?
Mayo still had hopes that something could be salvaged out of the "workable parts" of the tech and made
acceptable in the mainstream therapy world. (I have a copy of the book I bought way back out of curiosity.)

That was probably a lot of work. Tell us a bit about that history, if you can.

1623704998622.jpeg
 

Barile

Well-known member
We had different vantage points.

I was never under him in an organization. By the time he had ascended to Senior Case Supervisor International (or shorty thereafter), I was already incompatible with Scientology Inc., but had not yet fully recognized (admitted to myself) that incompatibility. Various people I knew were still involved with Scientology Inc., so I had a steady flow of information and documents, but I was no longer IN Scientology Inc.

To me, at the time, David Mayo seemed to be a kind of interlocutor between Hubbard and the masses. It seemed that Hubbard would make a "discovery," or utter something, and Mayo's job was to present it in a manner that made it acceptable and desirable.

By 1980, Hubbard had been exposed widely as an amoral and immoral mastermind of a wacky cult, so, presto!, Hubbard wrote - or dictated - a "common sense moral code," and became the expert on morality.

Since it was something new from Hubbard, it was David Mayo's job to make it appealing and package it as a new Rundown that can be sold in HGCs.

Problem was, it was a PR handling to begin with, to protect Hubbard's and Scientology's "image." Making it into a Rundown didn't quite fit. It certainly didn't appeal to me.

Then there were Hubbard's pronouncements on "Clear" circa 1978, and the accompanying confusion. David Mayo, in 1981, finally wrote something about the Harmonics of Clear, for which he was later hammered by Hubbard.

Then came the Mission Holder's Conference of late '82, and Senior C/S Int. Mayo, and ED Int. Bill Franks, siding with the Mission Holders. Each was unaware that Hubbard had already decided the Mission Holders were mutineers and wanted them looted and crushed, and he also wanted their public and their bank accounts.

Then, Hubbard ordered that Mayo be taken to the southern California desert, where he was C/Sed, remotely, by Hubbard, and ordered to run around a bright red telephone pole all day in the summer heat. The bright red color was supposed to re-stimulate a whole track implant.

Finally, Mayo escaped, was declared a Suppressive Person, and set up own group. Around that time, The Story of a Squirrel was sent to Scientologists far and wide, which only succeeded in making Scientology Inc. seem more insane.

Ultimately, David Mayo ceased being any kind of Scientologist, but it took years for the conditioning to completely wear off.
Oh... I see, I see. I was already gone and forgotten at the end of 1979. Just goes to show what an inept judge of character he was by using Mayo, whose only OT power was being able to make the vein in his forehead pop at will. I was still getting some updates from a distant friend, though I've no idea where he was getting the stuff from. I knew about/read the "Story of a Squirrel", which as I recall, had Ray's name on it, IIRC, but I was oblivious to the mission scene. If I ruled the world at that time, I'd have chosen Brian Livingston, stone cold poker face with a very controlled sense of humor and the ability to pin interns to the back wall with a mere, "What?". Now that shit was totally off the hook OT.

>> Hubbard ordered that Mayo be taken to the southern California desert, where he was C/Sed, remotely, by Hubbard, and ordered to run around a bright red telephone pole all day in the summer heat. The bright red color was supposed to re-stimulate a whole track implant.

I don't recall seeing that one in my materials, I think he may have been trolling Mayo. That's cold, gangsta shit that well... may have been richly deserved from a certain perspective. Sorry I missed it

 

Barile

Well-known member
That's interesting. The "one timer" as it were. A flash of realization and things are changed.

Usually with me it's an accumulation of low key observations that over time I have to compare and make a conclusion from.
Although, I did have a couple "Ted, you are literally a f*cking psycho" dawning thoughts in my interactions with the always nutty Super-Regge Ted Bragin.
ya, one and done. The rules of zombie engagement. Well, all the lessor transgressions against my personal zone of tranquility, were just ummm historical background. I'm somewhat spontaneous, cavalier, eh... insolent, smug but not perfect. I was always willing to change, until a few decades ago.
 

Barile

Well-known member
Didn't he try to transform the concepts of auditing into a Metapsychology book in the mid-nineties (~1995)?
Mayo still had hopes that something could be salvaged out of the "workable parts" of the tech and made
acceptable in the mainstream therapy world. (I have a copy of the book I bought way back out of curiosity.)

That was probably a lot of work. Tell us a bit about that history, if you can.

View attachment 11792
oh check out the seminar schedule.

maybe they have a cert for previous work experience? imma call the hotline
 

Barile

Well-known member
I got a lot out of OT1 when I ran it, and maybe should have stayed there and not done any more on the Bridge (or at least not anything further up).

Am I right in saying that the old OT levels (post OT III) were mainly about exteriorisation - they were intended to get people operating as thetans outside of the body and stable in that state? I once knew someone who had done them and he said they didn't do anything for him, but someone else he knew had got better results.
You reminded me that I have actual photographic evidence of an OT 1 session I ran while across the street from Hollywood High School.
I had my Pentax 35mm camera with me, so as to appear inconspicous. I was so inconspicuous that as I was about to cross the street,
a truck ran into a fire hydrant sending a gush of water 20 feet into the air. I forgot to mention this in the session report, so... there's that.

hollywoodHS.JPG
 

Veda

Well-known member
Didn't he try to transform the concepts of auditing into a Metapsychology book in the mid-nineties (~1995)?
Mayo still had hopes that something could be salvaged out of the "workable parts" of the tech and made
acceptable in the mainstream therapy world. (I have a copy of the book I bought way back out of curiosity.)

That was probably a lot of work. Tell us a bit about that history, if you can.
I hesitate to comment as I doubt it will do any good. Just for the record though, and this is from a very reliable source who was friends with David Mayo for decades.

Sarge Gerbode - who was independently wealthy - was Mayo's benefactor, paying his legal bills. It was large loan, and Gerbode accumulated a sizeable note (IOU) on Mayo.

To make a long story short, Gerbode grew weary and wanted his money back, and sold his IOU, that Mayo owed Gerbode, to Scientology Inc.

Mayo was now at the mercy of Scientology Inc.

The average meta psychologist does not know anything about this.

From what I can see, Meta-Psychology helps a lot of people.
 
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Barile

Well-known member
I know you're kidding but why not contact them and see?
don't ya think they might feel invalidated? what kind of a monster do you take me for, sir? :devilish:
 

TheSneakster

Well-known member
One problem I've seen with True Believers is that they have absolutely no sense of humor. :thumbsup: :D
One problem I've seen with certain critics is that they hide behind "humor" whenever called out for malice.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
.
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originally posted by TheSneakster
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One problem I've seen with certain critics is that they hide behind "humor" whenever called out for malice.
.
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One problem I've seen with certain "Indie" Scientologists is that they hide behind "criticizing whistleblowers" whenever called out for Hubbard's hoaxes.

Sneakster, I notice on your signature line you state: "I am not a trained or qualified lawyer." I think you are being far too humble. You are also not a trained or qualified observer.


Otherwise you would have figured out already that Hubbard and his Scientology hoax are the actual malevolent malice, not the people who expose them.

.
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation.
One problem I've seen with certain critics is that they hide behind "humor" whenever called out for malice.
I believe anyone coming here to try and promote the cults magical thinking (under the guise of discussion) not only expects a bit of 'malice' but deserves it ... and this particular OP revels in it.
 

F.Bullbait

Wise Guy
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You have written often and well about one of the fundamental cornerstones of Scientology's 71 year crime wave--Rhetoric!

I am officially proposing that we include Rhetoric in a newly discovered Scientology "triangle":

.
THE LRH TRIANGLE
Lying Rhetorical Hoax

It's a monumental mathematical breakthrough that literally reinvents traditional geometry. Because each corner of the LRH Triangle has (within it) not just one--but a multitude of other angles (e.g. the Religion Angle).

The purpose of the LRH Triangle is unfortunately extremely confidential and therefore fully unknown to all Scientologists worldwide, except to the Commodore himself, and later his successor COB. I am quite sure when they are ready to explain it to us they will do so without any slightest lying, rhetoric or hoaxes, whatsoever! So we've got that going for us.

:hattip:


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Heh, heh...lost in the LRH Triangle... I like it.
 

Ed8

Active member
There has on occasion been some conversation amongst Scientologists about where the upper OT levels might be, and when they are likely to be released. Despite Pat Broeker's claim at the event of LRH's passing, apparently there do not exist any further levels written up after OT VIII. Pierre Ethier would disagree with this, but he's not infallible and seems to have taken LRH's "PR statements" - an act of kindness if there ever was one - about having made notes of levels up to OT XV to heart. If one does a thorough investigation it becomes plain that these levels are mostly a fantasy.

Ignoring the works of others like Capt. Bill Robertson, some have mentioned the possibility that the next thing to do after OT VIII would be the original OT levels. That's an interesting claim, because Original OT IV requires one to have done the Clearing Course, and the vast majority of pre-OTs these days have not done this route, having gone Clear on NED.

As Janis Gillham Grady - one of the "original four" members of the CMO - noted in a recent online interview, the Original OT levels are quite theta and fun, at least compared to NOTs which has a tendency to extend for years and involves 6-monthly Sec Checks and exorbitant expense. And despite my having attested Clear without having done the CC, my late C/S had the prescience to put me through it anyhow, a gift for which I can never thank him enough.

So, I'm now on Original OT IV and finding it quite enlightening. I no longer have a C/S and I'm running it solo, a method I don't recommend to the average bear. But since I'm not the average bear, it's a valid route for me. "What's true for you is true ... for you." - LRH

Since I am no longer bothered by "fleas" I will leave the decision of whether to run NOTs or Excalibur for a future date. The OTs I have admired most on my journey were impressive already well before NOTs was released, and that's good enough for me. And frankly I don't really have the desire to audit every being in the universe either.
Haiqu,
Do whatever you like, but please, communicate the results honestly on here. Run that old bridge and let us know how it went. :)
Ed
 

Zertel

Well-known member
oh check out the seminar schedule.

maybe they have a cert for previous work experience? imma call the hotline
I guess that's a redesigned website for Traumatic Incident Reduction since it's copyright 2021. It's promoting "online training - now available for the first time" and "Traumatic Incident Reduction, as well as all the many other techniques within the subject . . . etc." so maybe they've expanded their basic offerings.

A few years ago TIR came up on a blog and I decided to investigate. TIR practitioners are called facilitators and clients are called viewers. There was a facilitator in a town nearby and I decided to give him a call and see if he might want to chat a bit and let me know how his practice was going. As soon as I mentioned that I had once been in scientology - CLICK! - he hung up! I called back and left a message on his message machine promising that I wasn't in any way antagonistic but he never called back. Oh well.
 
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