Is There A Base Population In The Scn. Cult That Would Exist Regardless Of What Happens?

[TrevAnon]

I love the work that others have done in estimating how many are in and active.

My question now is how many would stay in REGARDLESS of what happened?

You're welcome.

As ILTL already said it's the 64,000 dollar (or euro?) question.

Overcoming the cognitive dissonance that you've spent your life for a worthless goal may well be too hard. Also, there are people for whom the certainty Scientology seems to offer (as I understand) is very welcome. I think John P. Capitalist was right: he once said he thought that more and more members will 'leave' in a coffin, instead of just getting out.

That said, I do hope that people still in get out and live the rest of their lives to the fullest.

I just don't expect many more to get out. Maybe some disaster like DM getting a heart attack at an event could break the spell for the most hardcore?

(For legal reasons: of course I wouldn't wish it on him )

 

[Dotey OT]

So here is the question. Obviously, we do not have this data. I wish that we did.

What are the "people pools" where scamatology gets it's new parishioners?

I bet familial 2nd gen + has a higher percentage now than it ever has. I came in through WISE lines, ugh. I know guys that were book readers. My bet is that all other ways of the bridge are drying out to some extent now, and especially now.

Something like:

1. Family of scamatologist
2. Friend or acquaintance of scamatologist
3. Old previous book buyer, etc. Off the bridge for years. No internet, or still programmed not to believe
4. Sho nuff off the street, never noticed a bad word gullible person

I love guessing.

Somebody say something!!

 

[ILove2Lurk]

. . . gets it's new parishioners?

What makes you think they are? I don't think they are getting anymore
new people, just running out the clock on the ones still in.

But I've been out so long, I don't see the activity on the ground though.

Are they getting new parishioners?

Perhaps they get a few in foreign lands. ESMB and other sites aren't translated
into other languages, so they have a limited reach. Same goes for many of the
heretical books. People are not getting as "poisoned" by the truth in places like
Borneo, Burma. or Armenia (a possible future bolt-hole for me).

I have a feeling the main play is IAS donations. Get millions tax free and no
liabilities for future delivery on the acct. books. Best deal going. Just keep the
whales happy and coming along.

Imagine the amount of work and trained auditors it would take to deliver $5 million
worth of services vs just dropping $5 million into a numbered account somewhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Dotey OT]

What makes you think they are? I don't think they are getting anymore
new people, just running out the clock on the ones still in.

But I've been out so long, I don't see the activity on the ground though.

Are they getting new parishioners?

Perhaps they get a few in foreign lands. ESMB and other sites aren't translated
into other languages, so they have a limited reach. Same goes for many of the
heretical books. People are not getting as "poisoned" by the truth in places like
Borneo, Burma. or Armenia (a possible future bolt-hole for me).

I have a feeling the main play is IAS donations. Get millions tax free and no
liabilities for future delivery on the acct. books. Best deal going. Just keep the
whales happy and coming along.

Imagine the amount of work and trained auditors it would take to deliver $5 million
worth of services vs just dropping $5 million into a numbered account somewhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I occasionally see a new face used in promotion from my old local org, a face I did not know, and I knew most people there for a fairly long while. There is the possibility is they moved in from elsewhere. I am sure the BIS is kaput, or was before the planet began freaking out.

That's alright, I am as disinterested in them having new people as any. I hate it for the 2nd gen and beyond kids.

 

[Riddick]

At first I was way excited and actually brought people into the fold.

After I was able to observe the madness in action I became horrified of bringing anyone anywhere near any of it and then spent an inordinate amount of time searching for the "sane" place in Scientology...a futile pursuit.

I used to believe that somewhere over the rainbow there was an Emerald City of theta and sanity for Scientology.

Once I found out that it was exactly the opposite I was toast as a Scientologist.

I tried many times but could never get any of my friends or family involved, I even used the ARC triangle and the dissem formula, and sending them a book or brochure. None bought in and none said it was bullshit or anything, just no interest, we are all still friends.

I figured when I got to "clear", they would realize dianetics and scientology was the greatest stuff on earth. I figured I would be an example, proof of all the steps up the Bridge.

 

[Riddick]

I see the same thing. Always the same cars in the lot and only a few families holding up each Org.

I often drive by the Org I used to go to and it is always the same people in there keeping Scientology working while their heads are in a bubble of delusion choosing not to look at the truth about Scientology, the founder and the leader. Many of them have committed criminal offenses by bankrupting each other, causing suicides by disconnection and shunning and shattering famillies. They do it with such certainty too. I can't imagine the few that are still in will ever leave. Scientology will always be around due to the clever "tech" L Ron Hubbard designed. It is a circle jerk of mind manipulation and self delusion.

Keeping Scientology Working, or KSW Policy Letter of 1965, and at the beginning of every course a scientologists does, is one of Hubbard's greatest rhetoric speeches, although written and not spoken. It is repeated and repeated and embedded in the mind, Chinese school style which Hubbard talked about and used.

But what is Hubbard's KSW, it is rhetoric, the art of persuasion, which is not the same as rhetorical.

Keeping Scientology Working - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Communication Studies | College of Liberal Arts and Sciences | The University of Iowa

Learn at a university known for writing and communication excellence that’s backed up by the expertise and training of passionate, award-winning professors.

clas.uiowa.edu

 

[Riddick]

What makes you think they are? I don't think they are getting anymore
new people, just running out the clock on the ones still in.

But I've been out so long, I don't see the activity on the ground though.

Are they getting new parishioners?

Perhaps they get a few in foreign lands. ESMB and other sites aren't translated
into other languages, so they have a limited reach. Same goes for many of the
heretical books. People are not getting as "poisoned" by the truth in places like
Borneo, Burma. or Armenia (a possible future bolt-hole for me).

I have a feeling the main play is IAS donations. Get millions tax free and no
liabilities for future delivery on the acct. books. Best deal going. Just keep the
whales happy and coming along.

Imagine the amount of work and trained auditors it would take to deliver $5 million
worth of services vs just dropping $5 million into a numbered account somewhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

word of mouth is shut down, they can't hand out promo pieces, body regging in big cities is shut down, all do to Covid 19, plus no regging by unexpected visits by Sea Org regs, it's all shut down. DM has no answer in Hubbard's rhetoric, but only the whales to reg for IAS, LOL, that won't go far.

 

[Karakorum]

What makes you think they are? I don't think they are getting anymore
new people, just running out the clock on the ones still in.

But I've been out so long, I don't see the activity on the ground though.

Are they getting new parishioners?

Perhaps they get a few in foreign lands. ESMB and other sites aren't translated
into other languages, so they have a limited reach. Same goes for many of the
heretical books. People are not getting as "poisoned" by the truth in places like
Borneo, Burma. or Armenia (a possible future bolt-hole for me).

I have a feeling the main play is IAS donations. Get millions tax free and no
liabilities for future delivery on the acct. books. Best deal going. Just keep the
whales happy and coming along.

Imagine the amount of work and trained auditors it would take to deliver $5 million
worth of services vs just dropping $5 million into a numbered account somewhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Scientology in Armenia sounds like "Nordic socialism in rural Nebraska". Ain't gonna happen.

1. Family of scamatologist
2. Friend or acquaintance of scamatologist
3. Old previous book buyer, etc. Off the bridge for years. No internet, or still programmed not to believe
4. Sho nuff off the street, never noticed a bad word gullible person

Guys recruited in Russia who are sweeped off their feet by a "We can bring you to America where you will get a good job and a white picket fence home" .

 

[onceuponatime]

Very good question. I think we have seen enough examples where the answer is yes, there is a base population that will always remain in. I do not know that I would categorize everyone by year. The more years there are, the more likely they are to remain, certainly, but I have heard of people who have only been for a relatively short time who are extremely inside it. In many cases, I think the longer the person has been, the greater the opportunity they have to see what is really happening. The only thing it really requires is first, hey, it does not make sense, and then follow it up by asking questions or looking for info.

 

[Whattodo]

I tried many times but could never get any of my friends or family involved, I even used the ARC triangle and the dissem formula, and sending them a book or brochure. None bought in and none said it was bullshit or anything, just no interest, we are all still friends.

I figured when I got to "clear", they would realize dianetics and scientology was the greatest stuff on earth. I figured I would be an example, proof of all the steps up the Bridge.

What is the dissem formula?

 

[Riddick]

What is the dissem formula?

It's the deadly quartet. It's supposed to get people involved.

Caroline calls it out:

https://www.carolineletkeman.org/c/archives/658

Here's the COS website describing it:

London Congress on Dissemination & Help - By L. Ron Hubbard

www.scientology.org

 

[Dotey OT]

I am around currently active scamatologists. They are all still marching in place, as it were. The staff members look bored but always have the good word somehow, and don't seem despondent. Idiots.

I know guys still working at getting up the bridge. They are still trying to get along, and getting ripped off with bizarre loans and being regged for everything. All the while trying to hide money.

But me and the missus have been watching Aftermath, for the first time. We don't have cable, and got tired of watching RuTube reruns.
I have to say that the series is pretty cool. I am not throwing critiques. What I will say that it kicks ass. The missus hasn't done much looking on the interwebs after getting out. She is now. And what compelling stories. If some of you guys read this, my heart goes out to you. Yup, I was blinded and paid the price for thirty years, and then some. But I ain't the only one!

For over three years now, I do the following three things every morning.

(In honor of cap'n doc flubtard, I will start with a cero)

0. Do a Google search in scientology, select NEWS, to see what has been posted on the interwebs labeled as news. That includes the choich's own press releases, which I do not read!

1. See what Tony O posts every morning.

3. See what Mike posts.

The scientology news as of the last four weeks or so has been at a much higher pace.

It must be awful to still be in and have to bump into that huge amount of entater stuff in the internet all the time!!

I think I will call it END THETA.

 

[Dotey OT]

I am around currently active scamatologists. They are all still marching in place, as it were.

Everyone seems to be getting more active. I get more letters recently, and more calls. I know a few people that are planning the trip to flag.

 

[Karakorum]

Everyone seems to be getting more active. I get more letters recently, and more calls. I know a few people that are planning the trip to flag.

"The greatest good for the greatest number of registrars"

I imagine they must be hurting after all these months of pandemic downtime.

 

[Dotey OT]

"The greatest good for the greatest number of registrars"

I imagine they must be hurting after all these months of pandemic downtime.

I can only imagine. All this craziness in the world is only fodder for "Look what can happen on this crazy planet!! You had better get yourself through OT3 or your brief chance blah blah blah."

Although it is going to be hard to convince everyone that if there is no income = the choich dies, after having over a year of shitty income and the choich isn't gone.

On a more positive note, I am no longer employed by a scientologist! This change has brought a relief that was as unexpected as it is, and certainly is welcome.

The only connection that we have is a connection that we can live without easily, no harm if we are or become known apostates!

 

[Dotey OT]

I have been unpleasantly surprised.

Many people that I thought would have been out of scn are not. In fact, many who weren't very active have become active.

Makes me sad to think that some are in the final group of bridge travelers.

In spite of all the bad press, all the lingering questions, doubts, these few adventurous souls are spending their money and doing the bridge.

I think that there is something being done now that keeps people in even more so than before.

Is it the SRD?

What is it?

Some of the guys that are out that I know got out before the SRD came out, and didn't do it.

 

[Xenu Xenu Xenu]

There will always be a base population. I only hope the children of such people can be reached and inoculated. Sorry to say that there will always be deluded people.

Dr. Richard Carrier has a few things to say about that.

I found his videos recently and found parts of this one video to be humourous and could easily be applied to all cults.

 

[Dotey OT]

There will always be a base population. I only hope the children of such people can be reached and inoculated. Sorry to say that there will always be deluded people.

Dr. Richard Carrier has a few things to say about that.

I hear you. I am trying to look at it logically, so oops.

So glad that whatever we went through shook us loose.

THE FACTORS!!

The factors, well the factors that led me out. Slowly but eventually:


Lrh saying something that contradicts something HE said before
Looking for something that wasn't really there in auditing
Having to admit to something that wasn't true in session in order to satisfy the auditor
Being told to do another oca one too many times
Doing course or auditing in some really crappy rooms and buildings
Looking at old timers and thinking they weren't very good products
Knowing that this is all a bit too complicated for my liking
Not liking something but having to like it, both in and out of session
Wondering how the people that are execs got put into an exec position
Doing the same service several times, but not because I wanted to do it several times
Wondering about the whole track, thinking that inside I thought it not really true in spite of thinking it was true for the purpose of auditing
Having to pay for others mistakes in my own auditing
Having +45 folders and not through the ot levels
Giving a shit ton of money to the reg on a Monday, and being asked to give another shit ton by Turdsday at two
Wondering why it does really seem to be about the money somehow, but can't say it to anyone
Being told that my problems will be handled by training, but already being trained and knowing trained people that weren't that competent
Wanting to get data about scn from someone other than scn, but can't do it
Watching others have something done to them that I didn't like one too many times, and thinking that could be me
Getting pissed that whatever happened to me should not have happened to me
Having thoughts that I should not go back
Looking on the internet
I'm never going back


I think I might revisit this again, this is kind of fun!!

 

[onceuponatime]

I have been unpleasantly surprised.

Many people that I thought would have been out of scn are not. In fact, many who weren't very active have become active.

Makes me sad to think that some are in the final group of bridge travelers.

In spite of all the bad press, all the lingering questions, doubts, these few adventurous souls are spending their money and doing the bridge.

I think that there is something being done now that keeps people in even more so than before.

Is it the SRD?

What is it?

Some of the guys that are out that I know got out before the SRD came out, and didn't do it.

I think GAT II (and the SRD with it) did have an effect of getting more Scientologists active and more cemented in it. People who hadn't done anything in years were now doing something. Of course a lot of it was built on false stats and financial irregs, but people did get active.

Stepping back from Scientology as a whole is a big step and I think that many of the currently in/active Scientologists will never step away from it. But the fact that they can't man ideal orgs is a sign of what's to come. Sure, they aren't going to step back from Scientology completely, but are they willing to join the SO? Staff? Apparently not many are.

Scientology right now is composed of people who got in during the 70s/80s and "2nd generation". The people who got in during the 70s/80s are starting to get up there in age. And when I actually stopped to think about it I was surprised by how many of the 2nd generation never became Scientologists at all (or were active for some time and then stopped completely). In my personal opinion you're going to see more of the 2nd generation step away. I think most of the people who got in during the 70s/80s are going to die as Scientologists, barring some other big change (like Debbie Cook's letter).

So Scientology is definitely shrinking, especially as far as staff/SO memebers are concerned, but I think a lot of the been in Scientology since the 70s crowd isn't going to go anywhere.

 

[Dotey OT]

I think GAT II (and the SRD with it) did have an effect of getting more Scientologists active and more cemented in it. People who hadn't done anything in years were now doing something. Of course a lot of it was built on false stats and financial irregs, but people did get active.

Stepping back from Scientology as a whole is a big step and I think that many of the currently in/active Scientologists will never step away from it. But the fact that they can't man ideal orgs is a sign of what's to come. Sure, they aren't going to step back from Scientology completely, but are they willing to join the SO? Staff? Apparently not many are.

Scientology right now is composed of people who got in during the 70s/80s and "2nd generation". The people who got in during the 70s/80s are starting to get up there in age. And when I actually stopped to think about it I was surprised by how many of the 2nd generation never became Scientologists at all (or were active for some time and then stopped completely). In my personal opinion you're going to see more of the 2nd generation step away. I think most of the people who got in during the 70s/80s are going to die as Scientologists, barring some other big change (like Debbie Cook's letter).

So Scientology is definitely shrinking, especially as far as staff/SO memebers are concerned, but I think a lot of the been in Scientology since the 70s crowd isn't going to go anywhere.

I agree. Many of the people I know doing bridge now are 2nd gen. There are a few that I know that got in late 80's or were influenced by a parent that got in, but not raised in it.

Odd that the ideal org evolution appears to have gone something like this:
- DM gets an idea, purposes and intentions not yet fully revealed
- Public get regged to pay for the buildings, and they do with gusto, or they are gone
- The buildings have some influence on the unwitting public, such as making them think that there is some legitimacy now that wasn't there before.

There are big empty religious buildings everywhere on the planet, and they aren't only scientology orgs. Let's start with Catholic churches.

Doesn't that seem odd, yet familiar?