How to Leave?

Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
I remember being on staff in our crappy little outpost of Scientology. I had to "handle" some student and so I heard him out. He had this incredibly tragic story to tell and sounded quite convincing. I was a little affected by the seriousness of it all. I had to listen to him cry tears and listen to his feelings about it all. His tragic story may have something to do with all of this or it may have nothing to do with it, I really don't know.

I can't remember if I had to interview him again. It was so long ago. You all well know that I acted the part of the "able Scientologist" though. I didn't tell him what to do or think because we all know only dumb homo sapiens do that sort of thing. No, I think I assigned him some ethics condition or something like it. He did all the steps and came to me with Good Indicators and VGIs and Cognitions.

He took some time off course to handle the tragic story as best as he could and I saw him in the org about a few weeks later. He told me that he didn't need to come on course anymore because he has gone OT. He didn't really say it in those exact words, he was just being sort of weird. I think I told him that maybe he might be wrong and he told me that he was insulted and felt "invalidated". The course super then had a talk with him and that was the last that I ever saw of him. The course super told me some stupid Scientology nonsense about the guy being keyed-out or something and that was all I ever heard of that.

To this day I wonder if he was faking it just so he could make his break with Scientology a friendly one without all the arguments, and high pressure regging, and ethics and all that.

Maybe pretending to be crazier than the Scientology Staff is the way to get out of the cult. It is possible that the guy just made himself harder to find after that.
 

marra

Well-known member
I remember a guy at my org had been a long-time scientologist with very little auditing because he tended to work away from home a lot. He had a reputation for "figure-figuring" about his case but this was tolerated because he kept paying for training.

He eventually decided he must be Clear and managed to persuade enough people of this that he was sent to an Advanced Org and they let him attest to it. A few years later he decided he wasn't really Clear so he was again sent to the Advanced org and they let him de-attest. A year or so after this he decided he was Cleared Theta Clear and had no need for any Bridge auditing because he was way beyond even the highest level. At this point he was given the R-factor that he needed to knock-off this figure-figuring. That caused him to decide he was wasting his time in scientology so he left.

I saw him one day after this and asked him how he was doing. He said he'd been to see a psychiatrist and been give prozac but he said: "It didn't work on me because it doesn't work on Clears". I just gave him a cheery acknowledgement and went on my way.
 

Dotey OT

We Finally Got a Puppy!
I blew from the AO, then came back a few months later and went through everything one gets to do when blowing an AO. Going through all that was the best thing for me, really. My therapy was going nowhere.
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
There are a lot of different stories (public, franchise mission staff, Sea Org, etc.)
For example, Chris Shelton's story is far more extreme than mine

(I wish I could find the old video of Marty Rathbun telling about his particular escape on a motorcycle.)
 
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Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
It is not hard to imagine the first people to leave Hubbard and then the people after that and after that. He must have noticed a lot of people left because others told them the truth about Scientology. These others were the SOURCE of his TROUBLE. I guess anyone who knows the truth about Scientology would be a POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCE.

When you look at it that way, it all makes sense. It is a nice little game played with words. When you look at it the way it is described in the above paragraph, you would almost think it would make a Scientologist leave. It seems that Scientologists should word clear those three words until they cognite and blow for good.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
It is not hard to imagine the first people to leave Hubbard and then the people after that and after that. He must have noticed a lot of people left because others told them the truth about Scientology. These others were the SOURCE of his TROUBLE. I guess anyone who knows the truth about Scientology would be a POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCE.

When you look at it that way, it all makes sense. It is a nice little game played with words. When you look at it the way it is described in the above paragraph, you would almost think it would make a Scientologist leave. It seems that Scientologists should word clear those three words until they cognite and blow for good.
yes, it's a game of words (rhetoric), PTS means exactly that, potential trouble source, to the crowd known as a scientologists, and if you aren't recovered thru PTS tech, why you become a SP.

I didn't discover this until I read the Heinlein letters in which Hubbard said he read Le Bon on Crowd Psychology and used it.

 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
@Riddick

Yes, a lot of it is pseudo-science rhetoric but that is not everything in Scientology.
The feel-good feelings from auditing does not necessarily require any rhetoric.

Scientology is about pseudo-science rhetoric (training) AND creating brain neurotransmitter effects (auditing).
The e-meter changes in T/A and needle movements is caused by changes in brain activity that affects skin resistance to mild electric current.
This can lead to false memories (some are correct and some are not).
 
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Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
yes, it's a game of words (rhetoric), PTS means exactly that, potential trouble source, to the crowd known as a scientologists, and if you aren't recovered thru PTS tech, why you become a SP.

I didn't discover this until I read the Heinlein letters in which Hubbard said he read Le Bon on Crowd Psychology and used it.

He could have called it anti-Scientologist instead of PTS but that might draw attention to the fact that there are such things as anti-Scientologists and who knows where that would lead. No, better to call it anything but that. Better to call it Potential Trouble Source. The only thing is Scientologists don't know anti-Scientologists are only a potential troublesome source to L. Ron Hubbard, and nowadays, David Miscavige.
 

onceuponatime

Well-known member
Isn't there something like the anti-social personality, the anti-scientologist? You guys are thinking too small. If you're anti scientology you aren't PTS, you're an SP. Imagine being anti scientology and only being labeled PTS.

The best way to leave is to just cut all ties. But some people are too stuck on it (friends, family, job, etc.) and need to take smaller steps.
 

Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
Isn't there something like the anti-social personality, the anti-scientologist? You guys are thinking too small. If you're anti scientology you aren't PTS, you're an SP. Imagine being anti scientology and only being labeled PTS.

The best way to leave is to just cut all ties. But some people are too stuck on it (friends, family, job, etc.) and need to take smaller steps.
I meant it more like the ant-Scientology friend is potentially a troublesome source for Scientology. If the friend hasn't really done anything or said much, then he is could still be connected to the Scientologist and only be a potential source of trouble. I wasn't talking about the PTS as an ethics term but how Hubbard found these SPs to be potentially troublesome to Hubbard. I think that the term is more accurate when viewed this way.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
@Riddick

Yes, a lot of it is pseudo-science rhetoric but that is not everything in Scientology.
The feel-good feelings from auditing does not necessarily require any rhetoric.

Scientology is about pseudo-science rhetoric (training) AND creating brain neurotransmitter effects (auditing).
The e-meter changes in T/A and needle movements is caused by changes in brain activity that affects skin resistance to mild electric current.
This can lead to false memories (some are correct and some are not).
I dunno PG. I know what you saying and it seems plausible. But I have to tell you with the auditing I have had, lower level up to Grade 0, and a bunch of Sec Checks, I can't tell you how many times I just wanted to leave the auditing session or just have it end, (but I couldn't do that because then there is a missed withhold or overt that then needs to be run.) because of the repetitive question on a particular auditing question. When you answer the same question over and over and can't recall anymore, and you don't have a floating needle, oh my god, what a trap, what to do.

Behind the scenes of a auditing session is that Hubbard said if you blow(leave) a auditing session, you are PTS and maybe SP. Also, Hubbard said the way out is the way thru, what turns it on, turns it off, etc. These are behind the scenes rhetoric to keep one involved.

Not every auditing session I got was a feel good experience, in fact I'd say it was a pain the ass, with the constant repetitive question, some were great with a cognition, but mostly not. What kept me going was the rhetoric of going clear and then OT.

As far as I'm concerned, the emeter is a quack machine with a rhetoric logical appeal. For example, see, I gave you a pinch test, and the emeter reacts when I say recall the pinch, seems logos, or logical.

From accounts and stories told on ESMB and elsewhere, people faked a lot of the times having a floating needle and faked a feel good auditing session.
 

Riddick

I clap to no man
He could have called it anti-Scientologist instead of PTS but that might draw attention to the fact that there are such things as anti-Scientologists and who knows where that would lead. No, better to call it anything but that. Better to call it Potential Trouble Source. The only thing is Scientologists don't know anti-Scientologists are only a potential troublesome source to L. Ron Hubbard, and nowadays, David Miscavige.
A PTS person is somebody who has doubts about whether dianetics or scientology actually works. A SP is somebody who has determined that dianetics or scientology does not produce a clear or OT and have thus gotten the balls to speak out to talk about it.

Hubbard developed PTS auditing rundowns, to persuade such people to get back in the crowd. Hubbard also said he developed the SP rundown.

It's all a bunch of rhetoric.
 

programmer_guy

True ex-Scientologist
I dunno PG. I know what you saying and it seems plausible. But I have to tell you with the auditing I have had, lower level up to Grade 0, and a bunch of Sec Checks, I can't tell you how many times I just wanted to leave the auditing session or just have it end, (but I couldn't do that because then there is a missed withhold or overt that then needs to be run.) because of the repetitive question on a particular auditing question. When you answer the same question over and over and can't recall anymore, and you don't have a floating needle, oh my god, what a trap, what to do.

Behind the scenes of a auditing session is that Hubbard said if you blow(leave) a auditing session, you are PTS and maybe SP. Also, Hubbard said the way out is the way thru, what turns it on, turns it off, etc. These are behind the scenes rhetoric to keep one involved.

Not every auditing session I got was a feel good experience, in fact I'd say it was a pain the ass, with the constant repetitive question, some were great with a cognition, but mostly not. What kept me going was the rhetoric of going clear and then OT.

As far as I'm concerned, the emeter is a quack machine with a rhetoric logical appeal. For example, see, I gave you a pinch test, and the emeter reacts when I say recall the pinch, seems logos, or logical.

From accounts and stories told on ESMB and elsewhere, people faked a lot of the times having a floating needle and faked a feel good auditing session.
I got feel-good feelings from auditing except for Objectives.
To get past Objectives, in one session, I mentally faked an F/N.
 
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Xenu Xenu Xenu

Well-known member
A PTS person is somebody who has doubts about whether dianetics or scientology actually works. A SP is somebody who has determined that dianetics or scientology does not produce a clear or OT and have thus gotten the balls to speak out to talk about it.

Hubbard developed PTS auditing rundowns, to persuade such people to get back in the crowd. Hubbard also said he developed the SP rundown.

It's all a bunch of rhetoric.
I deliberately changed the definition of PTS to make a point about Hubbard.
 
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