Geir Isene ~ OTVIII

[SuperstarNeilC]

 

[Veda]

He praises the "OT levels," but not the OT level theory, and not the PR.

How is this different from someone who says he got great gains from OT3, but doesn't believe in Xenu? That's a clever response from a successful PR person.

On NOTs, it's impossible to get through NOTs without following the command, "blow it." From his description, he ignored the instructions of the OT levels then praises the "tech" that he did not follow.

That's screwy.

He spent 200 thousand dollars on the OT levels and got an old Comm Course result.

I got the same result in 1970 for $15. from a two day course.

How many times has he told people how wonderful and beneficial the OT levels, as delivered by Scientology Inc., are? How many people have become involved in $cientology because of this kooky advice?

 

[TheSneakster]

ow is this different from someone who says he got great gains from OT3, but doesn't believe in Xenu?

Oh, I'm very sorry. There is nowhere in the OT Course Section III study materials, the confidential Class VIII lectures, or anywhere else where Ron Hubbard ever states that belief in Xenu or the Incident II is required of the pre-OT in order for them to audit the OT III level.

Now I'm sure you are likely to produce some oddball personal interpretation of this or that completely disrelated statement in which you imagine that belief in each and every word written by Ron Hubbard is required of Scientologists, but Hubbard never said or wrote that, either.

 

[I M Dex]

Oh, I'm very sorry. There is nowhere in the OT Course Section III study materials, the confidential Class VIII lectures, or anywhere else where Ron Hubbard ever states that belief in Xenu or the Incident II is required of the pre-OT in order for them to audit the OT III level.

Now I'm sure you are likely to produce some oddball personal interpretation of this or that completely disrelated statement in which you imagine that belief in each and every word written by Ron Hubbard is required of Scientologists, but Hubbard never said or wrote that, either.

No, it's more insidious than that. He just had "word clearing" applied, the only acceptable end result being the student agreeing with the materials. Let's not pretend that it was ever ok in the C of S to say that Hubbard was wrong about anything.
But nevertheless there certainly were people who had their doubts about the Xenu fiction, but nevertheless went on with the procedure hoping that it would work out well.

 

[Veda]

Oh, I'm very sorry. There is nowhere in the OT Course Section III study materials, the confidential Class VIII lectures, or anywhere else where Ron Hubbard ever states that belief in Xenu or the Incident II is required of the pre-OT in order for them to audit the OT III level.

Now I'm sure you are likely to produce some oddball personal interpretation of this or that completely disrelated statement in which you imagine that belief in each and every word written by Ron Hubbard is required of Scientologists, but Hubbard never said or wrote that, either.

Have you done OT 3? Are you familiar with its procedures?

 

[TheSneakster]

Have you done OT 3? Are you familiar with its procedures?

I have the materials. Like I said, belief ain't even mentioned in them. Perhaps you have a proper citation in which belief in Incident II (or Incident I) is demanded by Hubbard in his own written or spoken words to prove me mistaken ?

 

[Veda]

No, it's more insidious than that. He just had "word clearing" applied, the only acceptable end result being the student agreeing with the materials. Let's not pretend that it was ever ok in the C of S to say that Hubbard was wrong about anything.
But neverhteless there certainly were people who had their doubts about the Xenu fiction, but nevertheless went on with the procedure hoping that it would work out well.

Let's not be sidetracked by Sneakster, who has never audited anyone including himself.

The absurdity of Isene's descctiptions need to be pointed out to prevent any more people becoming led into the Scn inc. people machine.

People on OT 3 very much want to complete OT 3. There is not a casual attitude.

People don't make fun of OT 3 while doing OT 3. I have seen people in a cold sweat anticipating going into their first session of OT 3.

Afterwards, weeks or months or years later, they sometimes realize how foolish doing it was.

 

[Veda]

I have the materials. Like I said, belief ain't even mentioned in them. Perhaps you have a proper citation in which belief in Incident II (or Incident I) is demanded by Hubbard in his own written or spoken words to prove me mistaken ?

'You're all hat and no horse."

 

[PirateAndBum]

All hat no cattle

 

[I M Dex]

There is something to be said for maintaining a crusade of making nitpicking and specious pointless points. But it's not worth saying.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

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Thanks!

That contained really entertaining and illuminating stories about how Miscavige, OSA and Scientology leadership repeatedly screws up—even when someone shows them how to avoid that and get great results.

The COS (Crimewave of Scientology) really blew it. They could have had Geir on their senior leadership team.

But Scientology gurus could not "have" someone that smart, that creative and that honorable.

I guess that's the best thing about cult. They are manically self-destructive. LOL

..

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

He praises the "OT levels," but not the OT level theory, and not the PR.

How is this different from someone who says he got great gains from OT3, but doesn't believe in Xenu? That's a clever response from a successful PR person.

On NOTs, it's impossible to get through NOTs without following the command, "blow it." From his description, he ignored the instructions of the OT levels then praises the "tech" that he did not follow.

That's screwy.

He spent 200 thousand dollars on the OT levels and got an old Comm Course result.

I got the same result in 1970 for $15. from a two day course.

How many times has he told people how wonderful and beneficial the OT levels, as delivered by Scientology Inc., are? How many people have become involved in $cientology because of this kooky advice?

I remember seeing an old interview or post from Geir where he also said he would happily do the OT levels again---because he got so much "case gain". I never understood how he could have (after leaving the cult) ended up celebrating and promoting the OT levels. LOL. That made absolutely no sense.

Is Geir now fully out of the cult? I'd hate to think he is doing some kind of undercover "handling" for Scientology like some other weird moments when an apparent and very vocal EX scientologist started to promote Scientology again (e.g. Alanzo, Marty Rathbun, et al).

In any case I hope Geir is successfully cutting all the remaining tethers to Hubbard's absurdly ridiculous Xenu clown show. Come on Geir, you'd pay for handling more BTs and redo and repay for OT III, OT IV, OT V, OT VI, OT VII and OT VIII again? Is it a practical joke? LOL

I haven't finished watching Geir's interview, maybe I'll peek again and see if he has the blow cog. LOL

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[HelluvaHoax!]

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I have the materials. Like I said, belief ain't even mentioned in them. Perhaps you have a proper citation in which belief in Incident II (or Incident I) is demanded by Hubbard in his own written or spoken words to prove me mistaken ?

Wow, a proper citation!

OMG, what an impressive word!

What gravitas! LOL

You must be a scientist or a scholar or a lawyer or something really serious! LOL

Sorry, but asking for a "citation" in Hubbard's materials is one of the funniest things I have ever heard! That would kind of be like asking Bernie Madoff to give you an official printout of your investment account's balance. Then you receive the "citation" in the mail and it sure looks impressive because someone used a word processor and typed it out so neatly with justified columns! LOL

Sneakster, it's getting harder and harder to not laugh out loud when you go on all your little furious mini-crusades demanding that people prove things to you. It's a surreal joke---because you are still a Scientologist and you still don't know that all of Hubbard's CLEAR and OT materials are a hoax. You don't ask Hubbard for proof and citations, do you? LOL

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[HelluvaHoax!]

Just finished Geir's interview...

He doubled down. Not only did he confirm that he got great case gain from the OT levels, but it's even weirder than that. He blinklessly claimed that he "got wins and case gain from EVERYTHING in Scientology"

Somethin' ain't right. LOL

Maybe he is enjoying his escape from the scientific world and experiencing his first connection to CREATIVITY. He actually mentioned something like that. So he gets wins from creativity, because he sure as hell is not running BTs and IMPLANTS. He's just running his own self-styled creative process and enjoying the fun of being creative for the first time. It has nothing to do with Hubbard or Scientology.

I have commented many times that the "wins" from auditing are identical to the "wins" from doing creative work. There are the same exact mental, physiological and revelational (i.e. "cognition") phenomena. It even has the "end phenomena" of "VGIs", the sudden emotional upswing and an "F/N" if the creative person was put on a meter.

It's all just creative problem solving whether it's REAL problems or IMAGINARY problems—it doesn't matter.

I think this is an accurate interpretation of how Geir can give such glowing & obviously nonsensical testimonials which promote "big wins!" from the quack and fraudulent processes of notorious con man L. Ron Hubbard. I think it is manifestly irresponsible for Geir to blithely promote his "great gains" from Scientology. He's a very smart guy but that doesn't mean he doesn't say cringefully misleading and frankly dumb things.

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[I M Dex]

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Wow, a proper citation!

OMG, what an impressive word!

What gravitas! LOL

You must be a scientist or a scholar or a lawyer or something really serious! LOL

Sorry, but asking for a "citation" in Hubbard's materials is one of the funniest things I have ever heard! That would kind of be like asking Bernie Madoff to give you an official printout of your investment account's balance. Then you receive the "citation" in the mail and it sure looks impressive because someone used a word processor and typed it out so neatly with justified columns! LOL

Sneakster, it's getting harder and harder to not laugh out loud when you go on all your little furious demands that people prove things to you. It's a surreal joke---because you are still a Scientologist and you still don't know that all of Hubbard's CLEAR and OT materials are a hoax. You don't ask Hubbard for proof and citations, do you? LOL

..

He speaks as though there was a jury there for whom he's arguing to plead his case. He'd like to believe that he's swaying minds, or preventing others from swaying minds. All media is largely just people preaching to the choir. Sneaks has no choir, that's the difference. He'd have to first recognize and accept that, and then maybe he could begin to recognize and acknowledge why that is. But pretending otherwise is the only way he can prop up his fiction of serving some noble purpose, so he can try to feel important and admirable. Without his "cause", he'd have to reevaluate everything. That's the Scientology "prison of belief"- being scared to be without that matrix, and facing up to having been so thoroughly invested in being misled, and losing all the self-importance connected to it.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Peter Forde - Scientific scrutiny of OT III

Scientofic scrutiny of OT III

www.spaink.net

makes some interesting points

 

[I M Dex]

I'd feel remiss if I didn't point out the following: Bashing Geir Isene for stating his experience and his observations is inappropriate. I can tell you from personal knowledge that Geir is a thoughtful, intelligent, kind and considerate person, very successful in more than one field, and he doesn't at all believe that all the answers come from Scientology, or that Scientology's approach is the best, or that it is perfect, and he doesn't restrict his own means of spiritual progress to the Scientology paradigm. Again, I'm speaking from personal knowledge.
In my view, overall, Scientology is a trap that is not worth the experience unless you arrive at the point where you can transcend the mindset and the written in stone beliefs and attitudes, and get whatever help you need to undo whatever damage you absorb. Scientology isn't remotely as beneficial, true or all-encompassing as it claims, and it is full of insidious curves engineered to cultivate submission. And there is no singular therapy or spiritual paradigm that is "the one way", or best for everyone, or is something to hold onto forever. It is based on a belief that a generic, one size fits all approach to spiritual and/or mental health progress could workably exist, and imposes a uniform characterization of all minds. It can and does happen that bits and pieces of the hundreds of techniques can happen to resonate with an individual and be helpful, but overall it is a false premise. Nevertheless, there are a few people who sail through it all and move on, without much disappointment or trouble, just because of how they are as individuals. Far too much of it is, in my opinion, irredeemable detrimental bullshit. But let those few who seem unscarred and happy be. Criticize their opinions, for the sake of not encouraging others to make a huge mistake, but sometimes these personal attacks are unwarranted.

 

[Reyne Mayer]

Wow, a proper citation!

i asked him the other day whether he wanted it in MLA, APA, Chicago, or some other format.

it turned out that i think all he wanted was a quote, preferably with a link or reference to where it came from. don't know why he doesn't just say that rather than use a term that has specific connotations (and requirements) in science and scholarship....

then again LRH certainly never properly cited anything (mostly only having vague, second-hand familiarity with the sources he copied and plagiarized). but if Hubbard's sloppiness sets the bar, then making stuff up and slinging shit is perfectly acceptable, and to be admired rather than attacked....

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

He speaks as though there was a jury there for whom he's arguing to plead his case. He'd like to believe that he's swaying minds, or preventing others from swaying minds. All media is largely just people preaching to the choir. Sneaks has no choir, that's the difference. He'd have to first recognize and accept that, and then maybe he could begin to recognize and acknowledge why that is. But pretending otherwise is the only way he can prop up his fiction of serving some noble purpose, so he can try to feel important and admirable. Without his "cause", he'd have to reevaluate everything. That's the Scientology "prison of belief"- being scared to be without that matrix, and facing up to having been so thoroughly invested in being misled, and losing all the self-importance connected to it.

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Well described!

He is unfortunately trapped in a double matrix.

Cosplay #1: Costume play. Well, he even labels himself a proud "warrior" in his role playing, who dares disagree?​

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COSplay #2: Cult of Scientology play. Come on all you lowly wogs and ex-scientologists -- get on your bridge to total freedom and play big games with big beings!​

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One thing, however—I do have to respect Sneakster insofar as it's not an easy life being a sector salvager.


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[HelluvaHoax!]

Whenever I see Scientologists or Indie Scientologists valiantly & vainly attempting to PROTECT Hubbard or the tech, I think of two things.

- - First, my mind flashes to Hubbard's policy to his cult followers, mandating that they provide the cult's Source with a "snarling defense".​

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- - Then, I think of the story of Sisyphus, forever trying to push a boulder up the mountain, only to have it than roll back down. The proverbial impossible task. That's what it must be like to try to defend the pathological lying and defrauding con man L. Ron Hubbard.​

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Meanwhile in 2023, as an ungodly downpour of entheta & PR flaps rain down upon Scientology from the internet and all media, the cult's "loyal officers" keep dauntlessly & defiantly putting their finger in the erupting dike in order to try to save Holland Hubbardland.

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