Auditing

[Noteta]

What do you think about auditing now?

 

[guanoloco]

IMHO, Scientology addresses the ego and is pseudo-spiritual. As such not only is it an impediment but a waste.

 

[PirateAndBum]

Last question
Does auditing have any therapeutic value?
Or is it just mind control after all?

From my own experience with auditing I would say that it had value. I was very happy doing the grades and the L's. Sec checks not so much.

The problem was the surrounding nightmare of the cult.

 

[Bill]

Message Cancelled

I now believe that any perceived "benefit" from auditing is mainly Placebo Effect.

 

[Noteta]

I now believe that any perceived "benefit" from auditing is mainly Placebo Effect.

Thank you!

 

[Howard Dickman]

Dianetics is Abreaction therapy for the common man and does have value. I am glad that the people who I audited had gains. The last session I did enabled a lady to travel in Oklahoma during the summer with her window open without experiencing the effects of hay fever.

 

[Noteta]

I now believe that any perceived "benefit" from auditing is mainly Placebo Effect.

Thank you for help me!

 

[Irayam]

For me, auditing is nothing special. As others have pointed out here, there is a temporary placebo effect. Talking about your problems with another person can do some good. But all the talk about “tech” is just bragging.

 

[Noteta]

For me, auditing is nothing special. As others have pointed out here, there is a temporary placebo effect. Talking about your problems with another person can do some good. But all the talk about “tech” is just bragging.

Thank you!

 

[I M Dex]

It's not necessarily always useless or detrimental (depending on which "auditing process" is being applied), sometimes its helpful, but its embedded in a system that draws a person into creating and projecting dubious "track", and for the most part guides focus to relatively superficial feelings and experiences that relate to the one-size-fits-all "grade chart" rather than allowing for raising consciousness of and processing the deeper, more influential things that come from the individual's own expression ("Changing with the PC", i.e., being inviting and accepting of what you express interest and importance in, is considered "out-tech", i.e., wrong and unhelpful). Its built around increasing submission to and acceptance of off the rails bizarre fiction, and with it the "source", i.e., "the only one brilliant and perceptive enough" to divine this "truth". In a cult, there may be initial ancillary benefits that are increasingly dwarfed by being drawn into an insular unreality and separation from the world.

 

[Noteta]

It's not necessarily always useless or detrimental (depending on which "auditing process" is being applied), sometimes its helpful, but its embedded in a system that draws a person into creating and projecting dubious "track", and for the most part guides focus to relatively superficial feelings and experiences that relate to the one-size-fits-all "grade chart" rather than allowing for raising consciousness of and processing the deeper, more influential things that come from the individual's own expression ("Changing with the PC", i.e., being inviting and accepting of what you express interest and importance in, is considered "out-tech", i.e., wrong and unhelpful). Its built around increasing submission to and acceptance of off the rails bizarre fiction, and with it the "source", i.e., "the only one brilliant and perceptive enough" to divine this "truth". In a cult, there may be initial ancillary benefits that are increasingly dwarfed by being drawn into an insular unreality and separation from the world.

Perfect Dex, thank you!

 

[I M Dex]

Perfect Dex, thank you!

You're welcome And I should add, it will gradually, insidiously draw a person into accepting, endorsing and adopting attitudes and behaviors that would horrify them if they saw it coming early enough.

 

[Inanna]

What do you think about auditing now?

I think Hubbard repackaged certain ideas that were already out there, and that’s why some of it seemed to be helpful or pleasant or whatever. Plus he chucked some of his own ideas in but those were rife with his own subjective bs.

Back in the day, I liked it. But been there done that.

 

[The_Fixer]

It's not necessarily always useless or detrimental (depending on which "auditing process" is being applied), sometimes its helpful, but its embedded in a system that draws a person into creating and projecting dubious "track", and for the most part guides focus to relatively superficial feelings and experiences that relate to the one-size-fits-all "grade chart" rather than allowing for raising consciousness of and processing the deeper, more influential things that come from the individual's own expression ("Changing with the PC", i.e., being inviting and accepting of what you express interest and importance in, is considered "out-tech", i.e., wrong and unhelpful). Its built around increasing submission to and acceptance of off the rails bizarre fiction, and with it the "source", i.e., "the only one brilliant and perceptive enough" to divine this "truth". In a cult, there may be initial ancillary benefits that are increasingly dwarfed by being drawn into an insular unreality and separation from the world.

I have been saying, along with some others that there are some truths, benefits and gains with scientiology.
It's origins lie in an old, outdated and largely discredited psychiatric theories. Surprisingly, given the cult's animosity towards psychiatry.

The problem is that scientiology is so corrupted, it's like watching that old Indian woman (an untouchable) picking through the cow patties in a field looking for undigested grains and popping them straight into her mouth. Unpalatable and not very productive.

The researchers of psychiatric theories will revisit these things and see if they have any further uses, of which certain parts will come back into favour. This is the thing. The mental health researchers will do continual research and testing, exactly what scientiology does not do and never really did. Not in any meaningful way at least.

It's better to go to the proper sources and see what's up-to-date than twiddle around in Scientology cow patties.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Auditing "WORKS" the same way many cults and con games "works".

The proof that people typically reference to prove it works is their personal (subjective) sense of wins, health, success, joy or elation.

In my experience, Scientologists can have wins on anything. Miraculous OT wins too! Finding a parking space, for example.

They mainly have wins on what they were told would produce wins. ("Hey, I found my basic-basic pre-natal engram when they tried to abort me, now I no longer have cancer and I can throw away my prescription glasses too!" ) Modern-day preclears never find (or erase) pre-natal engrams any more because they aren't expected to. However back in the 1950s those pre-natals cured EVERYTHING and were the "modern science of mental health" that "erased" neurosis, psychosis, depression and all psychological suffering as well as psychosomatic disease. When the cult stopped telling people that they needed to "find your prenatal engram" they stopped finding it and having "wins" on finding prenatal engrams that resolved all their problems.

More interesting, however, is that people being audited DO experience sudden mood upswings. You can reproduce those soaring psychological spikes by showing up at someones house and announcing that they just won the lottery---even if they didn't.

What I find even more fascinating is that mental and "spiritual" wins are the stock in trade of other cults/cons than Hubbard's Scientology. We could spend the next few days listing such hoaxes. Just for illustrative fun, let's mention one. The ECSTATIC WINS experienced by the devotees of the "technology" discovered by Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism (aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Smith was a notorious con man that went to prison before "discovering" his "modern science" of mental euphoria. He guaranteed farmers and ranchers that he could (for a hefty fee) "discover buried treasure" on their land by using "glass looking" or his magic "stone" that triggered a vision. His clients were excited and paid good money. I guess if they were excited, Smith was an earlier similar "source" that was able to bring people uptone, right? Smith went to prison for such grievous grifting but that's not important because other messiahs (Jesus, Mohammed, et al) also saved mankind and were crucified for that divine miracle, no?

After prison Smith expanded upon his "successful actions" and began doing mystical "wholetrack research" by sticking his head into a hat and gaining cosmic insights that soon became the Mormon religious and Bridge to Total Spiritual Euphoria for its believers.

Is it not scientific proof that Mormons get "case gain" and "wins" from the "tech" which emerged from Smith's hat? They routinely experience EUPHORIA, so that's proof-positive that the Mormon Tech works, end of argument....mike drop moment.

It's been discussed on multiple threads before, but there are many human activities that replicate the "euphoric" highs of auditing that do not involve "modern sciences" or newly discovered "technology". Amongst them are any ordinary life activities that involve the achievement of small or large goals, sports victories, financial "wins" attained without soup cans, gambling "gains" realized in casinos while drunk and my favorite one of all the END PHENOMENA experienced while watching comedians or viewing funny movies. Same exact "EP" as a Scientology auditing session. The customer in both suddenly begins to brighten up, laugh, have a "floating needle" and feel joyful. (i.e. If an FN happens in a comedy club without an e-meter present, is it still not an FN?)

The identical "EP" (as auditing) happens hundreds of millions of times a day around the world when people are engaged in any creative activity. Writing, designing, creating clever ads, giving inspiring speeches, doing some "interior design" at home to make it look better, creating a profitable business, creating a drawing or simply making up an entertaining story to help a small child fall asleep. There are infinite varieties of CREATIVE activities that generate the same "end phenomena" as the greatest auditing sessions in history. How is this any different than Hubbard's monumental wins of "creating" a ridiculous story about pre-natal engrams causing leukemia or a far more absurd story about invisible aliens ("BTs") causing all of human suffering that can only be exorcised by paying Hubbard $600K or more.

And what about the preclears "blowing" cancer who attest to their miracle and a short time later die? Doesn't that cancel their "success story". Ask me about an example if you want to hear a story about someone who tried to get me back in Scientology by euphorically sharing their mindblowing OT win that was really a life-ending loss.

I don't doubt at all that people being audited experience upward swings in the psychological and/or physiological sense of well being. But identical miracles can also be observed in your local bowling alley when someone throws a strike. And you don't even need to prove to the bowling alley's general manager that you "contributed enough" to the bowling alley to qualify to get an "invitation" to bowl there. LOL


..

 

[Noteta]

Auditing "WORKS" the same way many cults and con games "works".

The proof that people typically reference to prove it works is their personal (subjective) sense of wins, health, success, joy or elation.

In my experience, Scientologists can have wins on anything. Miraculous OT wins too! Finding a parking space, for example.

They mainly have wins on what they were told would produce wins. ("Hey, I found my basic-basic pre-natal engram when they tried to abort me, now I no longer have cancer and I can throw away my prescription glasses too!" ) Modern-day preclears never find (or erase) pre-natal engrams any more because they aren't expected to. However back in the 1950s those pre-natals cured EVERYTHING and were the "modern science of mental health" that "erased" neurosis, psychosis, depression and all psychological suffering as well as psychosomatic disease. When the cult stopped telling people that they needed to "find your prenatal engram" they stopped finding it and having "wins" on finding prenatal engrams that resolved all their problems.

More interesting, however, is that people being audited DO experience sudden mood upswings. You can reproduce those soaring psychological spikes by showing up at someones house and announcing that they just won the lottery---even if they didn't.

What I find even more fascinating is that mental and "spiritual" wins are the stock in trade of other cults/cons than Hubbard's Scientology. We could spend the next few days listing such hoaxes. Just for illustrative fun, let's mention one. The ECSTATIC WINS experienced by the devotees of the "technology" discovered by Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism (aka the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.


Smith was a notorious con man that went to prison before "discovering" his "modern science" of mental euphoria. He guaranteed farmers and ranchers that he could (for a hefty fee) "discover buried treasure" on their land by using "glass looking" or his magic "stone" that triggered a vision. His clients were excited and paid good money. I guess if they were excited, Smith was an earlier similar "source" that was able to bring people uptone, right? Smith went to prison for such grievous grifting but that's not important because other messiahs (Jesus, Mohammed, et al) also saved mankind and were crucified for that divine miracle, no?

After prison Smith expanded upon his "successful actions" and began doing mystical "wholetrack research" by sticking his head into a hat and gaining cosmic insights that soon became the Mormon religious and Bridge to Total Spiritual Euphoria for its believers.

Is it not scientific proof that Mormons get "case gain" and "wins" from the "tech" which emerged from Smith's hat? They routinely experience EUPHORIA, so that's proof-positive that the Mormon Tech works, end of argument....mike drop moment.

It's been discussed on multiple threads before, but there are many human activities that replicate the "euphoric" highs of auditing that do not involve "modern sciences" or newly discovered "technology". Amongst them are any ordinary life activities that involve the achievement of small or large goals, sports victories, financial "wins" attained without soup cans, gambling "gains" realized in casinos while drunk and my favorite one of all the END PHENOMENA experienced while watching comedians or viewing funny movies. Same exact "EP" as a Scientology auditing session. The customer in both suddenly begins to brighten up, laugh, have a "floating needle" and feel joyful. (i.e. If an FN happens in a comedy club without an e-meter present, is it still not an FN?)

The identical "EP" (as auditing) happens hundreds of millions of times a day around the world when people are engaged in any creative activity. Writing, designing, creating clever ads, giving inspiring speeches, doing some "interior design" at home to make it look better, creating a profitable business, creating a drawing or simply making up an entertaining story to help a small child fall asleep. There are infinite varieties of CREATIVE activities that generate the same "end phenomena" as the greatest auditing sessions in history. How is this any different than Hubbard's monumental wins of "creating" a ridiculous story about pre-natal engrams causing leukemia or a far more absurd story about invisible aliens ("BTs") causing all of human suffering that can only be exorcised by paying Hubbard $600K or more.

And what about the preclears "blowing" cancer who attest to their miracle and a short time later die? Doesn't that cancel their "success story". Ask me about an example if you want to hear a story about someone who tried to get me back in Scientology by euphorically sharing their mindblowing OT win that was really a life-ending loss.

I don't doubt at all that people being audited experience upward swings in the psychological and/or physiological sense of well being. But identical miracles can also be observed in your local bowling alley when someone throws a strike. And you don't even need to prove to the bowling alley's general manager that you "contributed enough" to the bowling alley to qualify to get an "invitation" to bowl there. LOL


..

Hey, just because people

Thank you!!