3 typical stages to leaving Scn

Pseudonym

Well-known member
Why not? Even if they didn't become a card-carrying Freezoner, at least it's out of the Church. Once they realize they don't need the C of S, they may later cognite they don't need the tech. Think of the Freezone as a stepping stone to getting totally out if you will.

Or if they want to embrace the Freezone, that's all right too. I believe everyone should do what they want.

Helena
I already said no. Which part of no don't you understand? I will not help you recruit scientologists from scientology back into scientology.
 
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Veda

Well-known member

Pseudonym

Well-known member
May I recommend a vocabulary building book.

In the meantime this information may be of interest to others.
May I recommend you follow the board rules regarding treating others with respect. My vocabulary is quite extensive thank you.
 

Veda

Well-known member
May I recommend you follow the board rules regarding treating others with respect. My vocabulary is quite extensive thank you.
Why do you prohibit others from seeing your earlier posts?

Was trying to see where you're coming from by looking at your posting history but you've blocked that.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
The FreeZone is a perfect gradient out. It's a process not an event. I doubt Helena was recruiting anyone.
 

Glenda

Well-known member
Why do you prohibit others from seeing your earlier posts?

Was trying to see where you're coming from by looking at your posting history but you've blocked that.
Veda, with all due respect one's privacy settings on the internet are nobody's business but their own. I also have my previous postings set to "no one". Why? It's no one's business "why". It is an option on this board, I clicked it. My reasons are not up for discussion.

Seriously dude, I think you have crossed a line with this. People have a multitude of reasons for restrictive privacy settings.
 

Pseudonym

Well-known member
Why do you prohibit others from seeing your earlier posts?

Was trying to see where you're coming from by looking at your posting history but you've blocked that.
Where am I coming from you ask. I refuse to be a cult enabler. For taking that moral stand you compared me to a scientology seaborg ethics goon. Then your disparaging comment about my vocabulary when you didn't like my answer. Now your questioning me about my account settings. I can't say your posts are conducive to friendly conversation.
The FreeZone is a perfect gradient out. It's a process not an event. I doubt Helena was recruiting anyone.
No. Helena telling people to spread the word about the freezone is an attempt at word of mouth recruitment. Isn't she a freezoner? How convenient. I absolutely refuse to be involved in such behavior. You don't help drug addicts and alcoholics by recommending more of what they are addicted to and that's exactly what scientologists are, cult addicts.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Where am I coming from you ask. I refuse to be a cult enabler. For taking that moral stand you compared me to a scientology seaborg ethics goon. Then your disparaging comment about my vocabulary when you didn't like my answer. Now your questioning me about my account settings. I can't say your posts are conducive to friendly conversation.

No. Helena telling people to spread the word about the freezone is an attempt at word of mouth recruitment. Isn't she a freezoner? How convenient. I absolutely refuse to be involved in such behavior. You don't help drug addicts and alcoholics by recommending more of what they are addicted to and that's exactly what scientologists are, cult addicts.
I hear ya.

I know an alcoholic who is being handled by the medical profession. This alcoholic cannot go cold turkey because this will kill them.

For most cold turkey is preferable.

Ever hear of methadone?

It's easy when you've gone through the stages of exiting to expect others to arrive at that point and I understand your wanting to help.

I exited without any Scientology lite but it was beneficial to know that some form of independent Scientology existed should I need it. It was like taking the toddler's favorite night night and putting it within view. You ween them.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Where am I coming from you ask. I refuse to be a cult enabler. For taking that moral stand you compared me to a scientology seaborg ethics goon.
Or comparing you to this guy - the archetypal "unreasonable" Scientologist.



Then your disparaging comment about my vocabulary when you didn't like my answer. Now your questioning me about my account settings. I can't say your posts are conducive to friendly conversation.
I've no idea what your views are - over all - since I can't see any of your earlier posts.

I was exercising a little curiousity, and also having some fun with you.

If that's a "crime" I plead guilty. If you want to "report me to the authorities," go ahead.
 

Veda

Well-known member
Veda, with all due respect one's privacy settings on the internet are nobody's business but their own. I also have my previous postings set to "no one". Why? It's no one's business "why". It is an option on this board, I clicked it. My reasons are not up for discussion.

Seriously dude, I think you have crossed a line with this. People have a multitude of reasons for restrictive privacy settings.
I crossed a line?

(See above)
 

JustSheila

Well-known member
Why not? Even if they didn't become a card-carrying Freezoner, at least it's out of the Church. Once they realize they don't need the C of S, they may later cognite they don't need the tech. Think of the Freezone as a stepping stone to getting totally out if you will.

Or if they want to embrace the Freezone, that's all right too. I believe everyone should do what they want.

Helena
Why not send exscns to the Free zone?

1) Because they've already lost so much time and money to COS that they should stop wasting it. The average lifespan is only about 78 years.

2) Because it will not address their issues that led them to COS in the first place, just like COS didn't.

3) Because it is one more fantasy cop-out from effectively dealing with life.

4) Because it uses many or even all of the same destructive policies of Hubbard's that break up families and ruin lives.
 

Pseudonym

Well-known member
I hear ya.

I know an alcoholic who is being handled by the medical profession. This alcoholic cannot go cold turkey because this will kill them.

For most cold turkey is preferable.

Ever hear of methadone?

It's easy when you've gone through the stages of exiting to expect others to arrive at that point and I understand your wanting to help.

I exited without any Scientology lite but it was beneficial to know that some form of independent Scientology existed should I need it. It was like taking the toddler's favorite night night and putting it within view. You ween them.
Sure, I've heard of methadone and yes for some alcoholics (and drug addicts) quitting cold turkey will kill them. You bring up a good point being there is medical oversight involved with a person coming to terms with their addiction as well as mental health practitioners involved too. There is a credentialed supportive team safety net guiding a person to recovery.

Scientology is a cult geared towards keeping people in. That's the point of cult retaining its members and looking for new ones. Since scientologists don't realize they are in a cult for them it's about more scientology, not less so I don't see scientology freezone as anything more a continuation of dependent addiction. I highly doubt scientologists tell other scientologists they should wean themselves off scientology. If anything scientology is structured with a group-think reinforcement to stay trapped in a cult. I don't consider that a form of recovery and there is no medical and mental health oversight within scientology guiding people out.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Sure, I've heard of methadone and yes for some alcoholics (and drug addicts) quitting cold turkey will kill them. You bring up a good point being there is medical oversight involved with a person coming to terms with their addiction as well as mental health practitioners involved too. There is a credentialed supportive team safety net guiding a person to recovery.

Scientology is a cult geared towards keeping people in. That's the point of cult retaining its members and looking for new ones. Since scientologists don't realize they are in a cult for them it's about more scientology, not less so I don't see scientology freezone as anything more a continuation of dependent addiction. I highly doubt scientologists tell other scientologists they should wean themselves off scientology. If anything scientology is structured with a group-think reinforcement to stay trapped in a cult. I don't consider that a form of recovery and there is no medical and mental health oversight within scientology guiding people out.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

The FZ is a step out the door. It's "safe" for those who don't want to see Hubbard yet.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Why not send exscns to the Free zone?

1) Because they've already lost so much time and money to COS that they should stop wasting it. The average lifespan is only about 78 years.

2) Because it will not address their issues that led them to COS in the first place, just like COS didn't.

3) Because it is one more fantasy cop-out from effectively dealing with life.

4) Because it uses many or even all of the same destructive policies of Hubbard's that break up families and ruin lives.
Just to play devil's advocate here as IDK it may happen but I've never heard of billion year contracts, RPFs, chainlockers, gang bang sec checks, lock ups, bankruptcies, forced abortions, forced disconnections, beans and rice, Thursday's before 2 and all that destructive junk taking place outside of the COS.

IDK as I never FreeZoned or have been a FreeZoner.

As far as wasting time I'd agree but that's subjective.

What I do know is the abuse in COS.

If the FZ were an option to get someone out then do it. I'm not advocating Scientology or the FZ and if that abuse is there then no.

Usually it starts with DM bad/Hubbard good and Church bad/tech good. Exploit that and that's one less hook in the mark.

Let 'em grow away from that grip and I'm willing to bet most go all the way out. YMMV.
 

Veda

Well-known member
The FreeZone is a perfect gradient out. It's a process not an event. I doubt Helena was recruiting anyone.
The use of the term "FreeZone" may be a source of some confusion. (And that's a whole other topic.) Probably better to describe it as auditing outside, and in defiance of, the organization.

A.E. van Vogt started the California Association of Dianetic Auditors in 1950. CADA provided an alternate place where someone, who was curious about Dianetic auditing, or any auditing, could go to satisfy that curiosity, without having to set foot in the Scientology organization.

It also provided a place - and a list of counselors - where someone, already involved with the organization, could flee to safety, to talk with someone who understood their experiences and, perhaps, receive some of the counseling about which he or she might still be curious. As far as I know, CADA is still in existence, despite multiple attempts by the Scientology organization to destroy it or take it over.

Alternatives to the Scientology organization continued with the publication of Aberree magazine in 1954, which continued for ten years as a place where dissident views could be expressed, and independent counselors could be found. It was a source of information that could be consulted by those who were curious about Scientology counseling but didn't want to become involved with the Scientology organization, or by those, in the Scientology organization, who wanted to leave but wished to continue with auditing for whatever reason.

Then, in response to 'Keeping Scientology Working' and related developments, appeared Eductivism, which, as I recall, had as its symbol, a two pointed arrow, signifying the rejection of the idea of Hubbard as the sole source. Not surprisingly, Eductivism became a prime target for attack and destruction by the Scientology organization.

Then came William Burroughs, who had been involved with Scientology in the 1960s, and wrote critically of it in his 1971 book Naked Scientology. Burroughs objected to many aspects of Scientology but felt it contained some validly therapeutic procedures. He wrote about establishing an independent center but nothing ever came of it.

The next notable period was the early 1980s when events led to an exodus from Scientology resulting in dozens of experienced Scientology counselors operating independently, and in defiance, of the organization. This was usually called the Independent Field but, on the continent of Europe, there was a group called the Free Zone. The Free Zone was regarded by most as a bit wacky. The Free Zone, today, calls itself Ron's Orgs.

Sometime during the 1990s, someone who, apparently, couldn't think of an original name, joined the words Free and Zone and created the "Freezone." Freezone is a generic term that describes mostly unimaginative people who still 'do Scientology."

Then, in the early 2000s, came a kind of mini schism - or a series of mini schisms - and there became a group of Independent Scientologists. Mike Rinder, of the Aftermath television show, was once a leader of this group.

He, along with most of those who had been involved with alternate and unauthorized Scientology, after having left authorized Scientology, eventually moved beyond Scientology of any kind.
 
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