Veda
Well-known member
Spoken like a true atheist with absolute certainty.
Do you believe the body has its own life force apart from the higher centers of the brain?
New OT levels vs Original OT levels
- Thread starter haiqu
- Start date
Spoken like a true atheist with absolute certainty.
Do you believe the body has its own life force apart from the higher centers of the brain?
No BTS? Bacon, tomato and salad? Becoming Trouble Source? Big Thetan Syndrome? 
BTs - boogie thingies
BTs - boogie thingies
Bill
Well-known member
I believe I am not my body and I have lived before.
Do you believe in "BTs"?
Bill
Well-known member
No BTS? Bacon, tomato and salad? Becoming Trouble Source? Big Thetan Syndrome?
BTs - boogie thingies
I once told a friend of mine that his restaurant should skip the lettuce on the BLT at Christmas time,
No "L".
HelluvaHoax!
Well-known member
.
Certainly there is no proof that BTs exist.
However, to be magnanimously generous with Scientologists, let's assume for a moment that BTs did in fact exist. Even in that case, there is still zero proof that any Scientologist, including Hubbard:
1. Knows anything about BTs.
2. Knows where they come from.
3. Knows what they are doing.
4. Knows whether they are a benefit or a liability to humans.
5. Knows some reason why they must immediately be exorcised (other than the billions Scn immediately reaps).
6. Knows how to get rid of them.
7. Knows that they don't know anything about 1-6, above.
.
.
Certainly there is no proof that BTs exist.
However, to be magnanimously generous with Scientologists, let's assume for a moment that BTs did in fact exist. Even in that case, there is still zero proof that any Scientologist, including Hubbard:
1. Knows anything about BTs.
2. Knows where they come from.
3. Knows what they are doing.
4. Knows whether they are a benefit or a liability to humans.
5. Knows some reason why they must immediately be exorcised (other than the billions Scn immediately reaps).
6. Knows how to get rid of them.
7. Knows that they don't know anything about 1-6, above.
.
Last edited:
HelluvaHoax!
Well-known member
.
Back when I was working at a Sea Org installation, I had a terribly toxic experience one night when I encountered a densely packed cluster of BTs!
(Bunkbed Thetans)
.
.No BTS? Bacon, tomato and salad? Becoming Trouble Source? Big Thetan Syndrome?
BTs - boogie thingies
Back when I was working at a Sea Org installation, I had a terribly toxic experience one night when I encountered a densely packed cluster of BTs!
(Bunkbed Thetans)
.
Veda
Well-known member
"BTs" are a Hubbard construct.
In 1952, Hubbard wrote and spoke about "entities" in the body, but they were not considered important or a problem.
In 1956, Hubbard assured Scientologists that there are not other thetans in the body. There might be some old facsimiles here and there, but these facsimiles were not a problem.
After Hubbard's mental breakdown - after 1966 Rhodesia - "Body Thetans," as the main impediment to the attainment of the state of Operating Thetan, were conceived. They were regarded as a problem and important, and became part of the "tech."
Prior to that, someone who came into an Org and complained of hundreds or thousands of invisible beings affecting him would have been considered "PTS type 3," or, more or less, insane.
There's lots of literature, other than from Hubbard, on things such as "thought forms." "elementals," etc. Make of it what you will. There is a chapter, titled Are You Haunted?, in the book Messiah or Madman? that presents a collection of views on the topic.
No, I don't believe in Hubbard's construct of "Body Thetans," but, at one time, did examine Hubbard's Body Thetan "tech" while re-viewing all of Hubbard's counseling procedures outside the confines of Hubbard's/Miscavige's organization.
Once a person agrees that there are "Body Thetans" and is given procedures to "handle" (ultimately "blow") Body Thetans, he will find "Body Thetans," and they will create a reaction on his e-meter.
That he put them there, after Hubbard told him they were there, is sometimes difficult to convey to the convinced person.
After Hubbard's second mental breakdown (after the 1977 FBI raids) another bunch of Body Thetans were conceived by Hubbard - and these were "sleeping" or deeply unconscious (essentially "dead") Body Thetans. Scientologists who thought they had eliminated the Body Thetan problem on OT 3 were now told they had not, and had much more to do: (very expensive) NOTs.
There are people who have spent many years - some more than a decade - auditing NOTs daily. What this does to a person's mind is another subject. (It sure doesn't make them "OT.")
Simply telling such people, "There are no BTs" usually doesn't influence them much.
Bill
Well-known member
So your answer actually is: "There are no BTs", just like mine -- but your way is OK because you took 365 words to say it.
Good to know. I guess 100x words "influences" people better.
(Just giving you a hard time)
Last edited:
Veda
Well-known member
So your answer actually is: "There are no BTs", just like mine -- but your way is OK because you took 365 words to say it.
Good to know. I guess 10x words "influences" people better.
(Just giving you a hard time)
That's alright. I take back that crack about being an atheist. I had you momentarily confused with someone else.
Anyway, regarding "BTs," I provided nuance and background, and my opinion.
The invented word thetan (pronounced, in American English, as Satan with a lisp) is also a Hubbard construct. Scientologists tend to overlook this. Hubbard's description of "thetan" is not equivalent to "spirit." And "reactive mind" is not equivalent to "unconscious mind."
"Body Thetan" is, inescapably, a Hubbard construct, just as is his "cold blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years," and the various descriptions of tremendous powers that thetans will have, once they are freed from their reactive minds (which includes their "BT's" reactive minds), are Hubbard constructs.
Mary Sue Hubbard reading about her last sixty trillion years
"The Power of Source" was a Hubbard construct
This is not a final authoritative judgement or pronouncement
upon the vast amount of philosophical, occult, mystical, or psychological literature regarding consciousness, minds, invisible stuff, ooooooooies, and such.
It's just a mild attempt to loosen the cement a little,
in the event that might be appropriate somewhere for someone.
ILove2Lurk
. . Lisbeth Salander . . Back in Sweden
Whole post is a thorough and 100% accurate history. Kudos.
Some people might need a few more words and a longer explanation to un-peel
the multi-layered onion that is Hubbard's personal world and beliefs. That's been
my experience.
Getting people to understand the simplicity that they were simply mocking up or
"imagining" what they were told they would find when looking inward into their
minds is not an easy job, as we all know. Especially if they had very vivid and "certain"
imaginations. Like me.
I don't think many people would "unlock" with a simple sentence. That would sorta
be a "one-shot 'ex' procedure," which does not exist at this time, LOL
I'm working on it, though.
--------------------------------------------
Some earlier history on "attachments" (Dr. Carl A. Wickland, 1861-1945) for the curious
and historians. Hubbard wasn't the first.
--------------------------------------------
Last edited:
onceuponatime
Well-known member
No BTS? Bacon, tomato and salad? Becoming Trouble Source? Big Thetan Syndrome?
BTs - boogie thingies
I'm pretty sure BTS is a band. Scientology should jump on that as proof that BTS does exist!
Whole post is a thorough and 100% accurate history. Kudos.
Some people might need a few more words and a longer explanation to un-peel
the multi-layered onion that is Hubbard's personal world and beliefs. That's been
my experience.
Getting people to understand the simplicity that they were simply mocking up or
"imagining" what they were told they would find when looking inward into their
minds is not an easy job, as we all know. Especially if they had very vivid and "certain"
imaginations. Like me.
I don't think many people would "unlock" with a simple sentence. That would sorta
be a "one-shot 'ex' procedure," which does not exist at this time, LOL
I'm working on it, though.
For those deeply in I don't think anything you could say would really matter. But for those on the fringes already, telling them something to the effect that it's all imagination might at least get the wheels turning.
HelluvaHoax!
Well-known member
I don't think many people would "unlock" with a simple sentence. That would sorta be a "one-shot 'ex' procedure," which does not exist at this time, LOL
..
Inspired by your post, L. Don Hubbard just offered his latest breakthrough:
DON'S ONE-SHOT EX PROCEDURE
1. Clay demo the concept of "$600,000".
2. Clear the term cult. Then meet up with any friend you have in the world who is not a Scientologist and enjoy some drinks together until you feel a really great buzz and you are super relaxed and happy. Then show them the definition of cult and go thru it with them, trying to explain why Scientology is probably not really a cult. After that, have some more drinks and continue the drinking process process until your grade zero rehabs and you can honestly tell them what you REALLY think.
3. [PRACTICAL SECTION]: Go out into the world and take as long as you need in order to try and find any single Scientologist on this planet who can demonstrate any super-power, magical feat and/or miracle. Come back to the org only after you have found one such OT, so you can share your win.
.
Last edited:
"BTs" are a Hubbard construct."
I'd say BT's are Hubbard's rhetoric and not construct, although it is a construct or theory.
"Simply telling such people, "There are no BTs" usually doesn't influence them much."
That's very true, it is certaintly true with nobody that has not done the OT levels of OT3 to OT8. They will not have a clue what BT's mean, they only know about engrams, secondaries and locks..
Telling somebody who has done the OT3 to OT8 that there are no BT's is a different story. These people have been thoroughly persuaded the shit works, and it's hard to get them to see that they have no OT powers, but they imagine they do and/or will have the power to cause OT events. It's very sublime.
Contradict yourself much?
BTW, I finished reviewing Dean Wilbur's book on Rhetoric. I have to say that I don't find it useful in your assertions about Hubbard and rhetoric. Wilbur's definition of rhetoric is: "Rhetoric is self-expression through language. It gives effectiveness to discourse by infusing into it personal quality... The living power in words is the power of personality. The Self finding adequate expression through a circuit of words -- This is Rhetoric."
If you'd like to discuss rhetoric further please create a new thread or point to one you already have begun. I don't want to derail this thread further.
ok, I'll create a new tread. But you ought to realize Wilbur's definition of rhetoric describes Hubbard, Hubbard was "a circuit of words", after all he said he was just a writer.
I'm not sure what I would title the new posting, maybe, how Hubbard used Dean Wilbur book on English Rhetoric to dupe people and create his own self guru personality, or maybe how Hubbard used rhetoric. I don't know, actually I don't feel like going thru the book by Dean Wilbur to get people to see. But whatever.
Similar threads
