The Scientologirl Independent Scientology YouTube channel associated with the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains

IS SCIENTOLOGY EVIL? INDEPENDENT SCIENTOLOGIST GIRL ANSWERS!




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She really did a great job of putting this together, if she was the one that did it. I like seeing such things as it is a great test for me to see how far I have gone in shucking off the shackles of the cult. So much is stated that is untrue, quite a bit is on shaky ground and some is incorrect.
 
El Con was a schizophrenic who could at times compartmentalise his different personalities but the overriding persona was Satan Sent but in the end a little twerp outsmarted him, similar to how Zaynab bint Al-Harith, a Jewish woman, outsmarted Mohammad, and. as a consequence, Mohammadykes have been enacting their revenge upon the two ever since.
The alleged poisoning by Zaynab happened during the Siege of Khaybar in 628. Mo didn't die until 4 years later, in 632. Personally, I think his child bride Aisha killed him. She was 18 by then (he had "married" her at 9), and at his death her father had taken over running Islam. Aisha had motive and opportunity. Just like David did with LRH. So the parallels are even stronger.
 
The alleged poisoning by Zaynab happened during the Siege of Khaybar in 628. Mo didn't die until 4 years later, in 632. Personally, I think his child bride Aisha killed him. She was 18 by then (he had "married" her at 9), and at his death her father had taken over running Islam. Aisha had motive and opportunity. Just like David did with LRH. So the parallels are even stronger.
You offer an interesting take.

One account is after his poisoning he was virtually a cripple.

It wouldn't be at all surprising to learn someone else knocked him off.

I have also read e married Aisha at 6 and started bonking her at 9 but engaged in foreplay between those years.

Most Mohammadykes would refuse to communicate with you about the matter unless they had already separated your head from your
body.
 
Most Mohammadykes would refuse to communicate with you about the matter unless they had already separated your head from your
body.
After 9/11/2001, I decided to take a look at Islam. I read the Quran and most of the Hadiths.
 
Succinctly, the Cult of I卐lam and the Cult of $cientology have one thing in common, they are both plagiarised and collated Delusional Bullshit.

The above is largely off topic.

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A re-post of Indy Auditors became Hubbardites thread post. This may be helpful to Sceintologirl.​

Referring to the situation in the current "Independent Field":

It wasn't always this way.

While there were always Hubbard worshipers around, it usually manifested as a brief and passing phase.

An early example was the Aberree magazine. published and read by independent auditors. It was well enough grounded in reality to recognize that Hubbard was part of the problem.

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Even earlier, statements by John Campbell, who had published the first article on Dianetics by Hubbard, in 1950, and Dr. J. A. Winter, who had written the Introduction for the book, Dianetics, criticized Hubbard, and this was when they were still enthusiastic about many of his counseling methods.

The first person to receive Doctor of Scientology certification in 1952, Jack Horner, later broke with Hubbard over the 1965 Keeping Scientology Working, yet Horner, while viciously attacked by Hubbard, continued to do auditing.

Author William Burroughs remained a proponent of many aspects of Scientology auditing, while recognizing that Hubbard had created Scientology, "fundamentally as an ersatz immorality" for himself. Burroughs' book, Naked Scientology, was published in the early 1970s.

After the schism of 1982, and the looting of franchises, while it took time for some to realize what was happening, most did finally realize that Hubbard (now deep in hiding) was behind it, and that Hubbard was part of the problem.

An early issue of the magazine published by the Advanced Ability Center, run by former Senior Case Supervisor and Hubbard's former personal auditor, David Mayo, featured a poem that sarcastically poked fun at Hubbard.

Three years after having left the Organization, and while operating his own Independent Center, David Mayo described Hubbard's cruelty on the Flagship Apollo and added, "He told me he had an insatiable lust for power and money. He stated that very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't see it as if it was a fault, just that he couldn't get enough."

A few years after that, in an article published in an Independent auditor magazine, David Mayo, while still advocating "Clearing" (as a verb) through auditing, described Hubbard's reason for downgrading and redefining (the noun) "Clear" (in 1978) as "PR and marketing" motivated.

Also after 1982, Class 8 auditor, Bent Corydon, while operating an Independent auditing center, began interviewing those who had worked with Hubbard in decades past, ultimately resulting in what was to become the book Messiah Or Madman?

And there are more examples from the past.

But something happened.

In recent times, things have changed.

Whether it be any number of small mom and pop auditing centers, the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains (although there is some indication that might be changing ever so slightly), Ron's Orgs (by far the largest group), or the Dror Center, Hubbard worship is alive and well.

Take this recent example from the Director of the Dror Center.

Out for eight years, and this is where he is.

Referring to the Organization:

"They managed to give Ron Hubbard a bad name, so Ron Hubbard who you and I admire, and hold him as the greatest genius who ever lived, a great man, the greatest man who ever lived, and created, and gave so much to us and all Mankind; his name has become a bad name. He's been vilified by the Church of Scientology, because of the terrible things that they do and they attribute to Ron Hubbard, like Declaring people Suppressive, Disconnection policy, and more..."

Wow.

Comparing this to some others who, years ago, left the Organization and continued to do auditing, this is a glaring example of failure to develop critical thinking skills, and failure to observe.

And he's not the only one. It's become "normal."
 
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That "fellow" happens to be my fiance, and I can assure you there is no manipulation. I have had thousands of hours on call with him and the amount of beingness he allows for me and others is incredible. Anyone who has anything negative to say about Jonathan has their own overts they need to handle.

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It's starting to make sense now that you attack Tony Ortega and others who report facts.

Does Tony Ortega have his "own overts (he) needs to handle"? You know this how? LOL

"REALITY FACTOR": Tony Ortega reported the facts regarding your fiance Jonathan who was sued by other Indie Scientologists and that he lost the suit and a judgement was entered against him for $40,000. Here's a look behind the curtain of why Tony O. and other whistleblowers need to be "Dead-Agented" by Scientologirl (click link below):


It's a very Scientology trait to accuse others of "OVERTS!" and "CRIMES!" when the Scientologist is the one running scams. Often the Scientologist (despite "knowing how to know") doesn't know that Scientology's "Bridge" to Clear and OT is itself a world class scam, con and hoax. However, borrowing $40,000 from a fellow Indie and then stiffing them and forcing them to sue you is not something a person wouldn't know.

The Indies (like their sister-Scientologists in the COS) offer the OT ability called "TOTAL FREEDOM". It appears that this sensational superpower also includes total freedom from debt obligations. LOL.


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PART II: The Contemptible Corruption of Cults.

"That 'fellow' happens to be my fiance, and I can assure you there is no manipulation.
I have had thousands of hours on call with him and the amount of beingness he allows for
me and others is incredible. Anyone who has anything negative to say about Jonathan
has their own overts they need to handle."​


How Scientologists & The People Around Them Lose Their Money & Their Minds:

1. Indie Scientologist "A" borrows $40,000 from fellow indie "B" in a simple and legal loan.
2. "A" defaults and refuses to pay the $40,000 back to "B".
3. For helping "A", the lender "B" takes a $40,000 loss.
4. "B" is forced to lose even greater sums, by having to sue "A" to attempt to get their money back.
5. While testifying at the trial, victim "B" mentioned that "A" broke the loan agreements, which is "negative". Therefore "B" (the victim who lost over $40,000) has overts that they ("B") need to handle.

During and after all of the above, "A" continues promoting and selling "ETHICS & INTEGRITY" courses & auditing to out-ethics people with overts.

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Question for Scientologirl:

You are active on this thread promoting your VIDEO INFOMERCIALS selling Scientology as well as trying to drive traffic to your MISSION WEBSITE to sell auditing & training.

In addition to the above, you are fairly industrious about trying to "handle" prospective customers who have "antagonism" towards Scientology---which is one of the standard steps in Hubbard's "Dissemination Formula".*

QUESTION: Did you think you would find customers on this website? Is that why you are here promoting? If not, why else would an Indie Scientologist choose to go on a website of blown and "critical" Ex-Scientologists who by Hubbard's definition are all SPs?​
QUESTION: Did you think you could "handle" the "antagonism" people have towards Hubbard and/or Scientology after they lost precious decades and hundreds of thousands of dollars in that hoax? Did you really think you could use this website to advertise and sell Scientology's fake Clearing and fake OT technology without anyone pushing back? Seriously?​


* (excerpt): "The Dissemination Drill has four exact steps that must be done with a person you are disseminating to. There is no set patter, nor any set words you say to the person. There are four steps that must be accomplished with the individual and they are listed in the order that they should be done: I . Contact the individual: This is plain and simple. It just means making a personal contact with someone, whether you approach them or they approach you. 2. Handle: If the person is wide open to Scientology, and reaching, this step can be omitted as there is nothing to handle. Handle is to handle any attacks, antagonism, challenge or hostility that the individual might express towards you and/or Scientology. Definition of "handle": to control, direct. "Handle" implies directing an acquired skill to the accomplishment of immediate ends. Once the individual has been handled you then- 3. Salvage: Definition of salvage: "to save from ruin". Before you can save someone from ruin, you must find out what their own personal ruin is. This is basically-What is ruining them? What is messing them up? It must be a condition that is real to the individual as an unwanted condition, or one that can be made real to him. 4. Bring to understanding: Once the person is aware of the ruin, you bring about an understanding that Scientology can handle the condition found in 3. This is done by simply stating Scientology can, or by using data to show how it can. It's at the right moment on this step that one hands the person a selection slip, or one's professional card, and directs him to the service that will best handle what he needs handled."

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Uh... This is, after all, the Freezone, Indy, and other flavors of Scientology section of the Message Board.

So, while spirited debate is good, and challenges are good, there is also a certain tolerance implied.

It's a balance.

I, for one, am not trying to drive "Indy" people away.

After all, many of us were once them.



 
Uh... This is, after all, the Freezone, Indy, and other flavors of Scientology section of the Message Board.

So, while spirited debate is good, and challenges are good, there is also a certain tolerance implied.

It's a balance.

I, for one, am not trying to drive "Indy" people away.

After all, many of us were once them.






How does my asking questions and pointing out glaring contradictions and challenging cult nonsense drive them away---if they are here on this discussion board to discuss topics? Nobody is allowed to debate a Scientologist or challenge their wacky pronouncements and declarations? They have a free pass where nobody dares disagree?

When Scientologists start running that nutty crap (e.g. that anyone who criticizes a Scientologist needs to handle their overts)---nobody is allowed to call them out?

In my personal view, if they are here to recruit students and pcs, they should not expect to use this message board as an infomercial to sell a fraud. Why would anyone have to pretend everything is okay and look the other way?

I know Veda, I am running people off the message board, right? LOL. Well, I seem to have a slight problem with not agreeing with Scientologists running Hubbard's con game. It's probably my resistive case, maybe I should stop dramatizing and let the tech work on me? lol

Maybe if next lifetime Scientologirl doesn't come storming onto the website and quickly LABEL & DECLARE ME AS A "TROLL" and "TOXIC" and "DOWNTONE", I will be friendlier and not start debunking their bullshit. Veda, maybe you can hat them on "How To Win Friends and Influence People".

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Uh... This is, after all, the Freezone, Indy, and other flavors of Scientology section of the Message Board.

So, while spirited debate is good, and challenges are good, there is also a certain tolerance implied.

It's a balance.

I, for one, am not trying to drive "Indy" people away.

After all, many of us were once them.
This is quite true. Many of us were True Believers, defending Hubbard and ignoring where the "tech" failed and failed and failed.

Great. That doesn't mean we now have to tolerate false claims, false promises and lies. Scientologists must ignore all the failures but I, for one, will happily point each and every false claim, false promise and lie.

Scientology is built on lies. That needs to be said.

Of course most Scientologists must be chased away by the truth. That's no reason to allow lies to persist.
 
Many of us were True Believers, defending Hubbard and ignoring where the "tech" failed and failed and failed.
Which was most of the time, in most places under most circumstances.

Just sayin' :whistle:

Scientology is built on lies. That needs to be said.
I'm gonna be the contrarian here. Scientology is built on control. Lies are just one of the many tools to control the members.
 
I'm gonna be the contrarian here. Scientology is built on control. Lies are just one of the many tools to control the members.
This triggered a train of thought: Which came first, the lies or the control+lies? I believe (no proof) that first came Hubbard's vast statements of gains and benefits -- and when those proved to be lies (no Clears, no OT powers) and the number of people following Hubbard plummeted, then came the control: Don't look, don't doubt, don't think. And, of course, more lies.

Maybe? :confused:
 
This triggered a train of thought: Which came first, the lies or the control+lies? I believe (no proof) that first came Hubbard's vast statements of gains and benefits -- and when those proved to be lies (no Clears, no OT powers) and the number of people following Hubbard plummeted, then came the control: Don't look, don't doubt, don't think. And, of course, more lies.

Maybe? :confused:
Even if wayyyyy back in the 1950s it was just lies, by this point it is control sustained by lies and fear and disconnection and external lawyers and love bombing and false promises and corporate enforcement and arbitration and OSA and inv and my former colleagues...

I can make this litany go on
 
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Scientology is built on lies. That needs to be said.

And it is said, yet new people join.

When you joined, there had been numerous magazine articles, available in the archives of most libraries. Yet you joined. Link to the Chronology of publications on Scientology.

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The image below is from the cover of a counter culture comix of the early 1970s depicting the scene in San Francisco during the Summer of Love in 1967, when Jesus returned to Earth only to find himself talked into joining staff at the San Francisco Scientology "Org."

all-god-comix.jpg

Link to the Christ returned & joined staff thread.


:rubeyes:Link to the Talking to new Scientologists thread.:scratch:
This is the serious thread
 
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This triggered a train of thought: Which came first, the lies or the control+lies? I believe (no proof) that first came Hubbard's vast statements of gains and benefits -- and when those proved to be lies (no Clears, no OT powers) and the number of people following Hubbard plummeted, then came the control: Don't look, don't doubt, don't think. And, of course, more lies.

Maybe? :confused:


That's very good. I think you have identified the "Cycle of a Cult".

Perhaps there is even more to it than LIES followed by CONTROL.

Naturally, it always begins with LIES (e.g. DMSMH was not a "science"). There was no "doctor" and "nuclear scientist" author. There were no pre-natal engrams with hypnotic word/phrase commands. There was no research. There were no clinical trials. There were no Clears. There were no supernatural powers or Homo Novis.

After the LIES collapse, the next phase is actually more LIES and more outlandish claims. The 1950 Dianetics LIES fell apart and within a couple years of fame and fortune Hubbard was already delivering even bigger and better lies called Scientology-- with even more absurd and outrageous magical powers promised (e.g. exteriorization, levitation, pulling the air cover off planets, mocking up MEST, immortality, magical postulate powers, et al).

All that lying (as you indicated) eventually self-destructed and it was then followed by "CONTROL", otherwise known as "policies" (e.g. the encyclopedic "OEC Volumes").

When CONTROL failed, Hubbard switched to "THUGGERY" and all its component derivatives (e.g. terrorism, fair game, black ops, criminality, et al). Perhaps the "Thuggery" part of the Scientology equation is simply another encyclopedia of policies, but secret polices that are meticulously hidden and almost never written down.

Ron loved triangles, so let's make him happy. The LCT Triangle! Lies, Control & Thuggery.

Really it's no different than a bank robbery. The thief enters the bank with LIES such as their disguise and standing in line pretending to be a normal customer. When they get to the teller's window they begin to CONTROL the bank employee by showing them a note with instructions and other controls such as letting them see their gun and telling them not to push the alarm button or put any of the "dye packs" in the cash collection bag. When all that begins to go bad, the THUGGERY and terrorism and shooting begins. Whatever it takes for the thief to escape with the cash in his getaway vehicle, a bluebird motorhome. That, in a nutshell, is the nut known as L. Ron Robber.

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"That 'fellow' happens to be my fiance, and I can assure you
I remember this one time someone said that, well, what I was being assured about was not true. Oh, I can remember other times as well. Oh, wait a minute, it's actually not a good thing here. I don't know if anyone else's experience has been with someone that's assuring you. It is a crapshoot at best. Factually, I dive more deeply when I am being assured. Just me. Maybe you too.
 
Uh... This is, after all, the Freezone, Indy, and other flavors of Scientology section of the Message Board.

So, while spirited debate is good, and challenges are good, there is also a certain tolerance implied.

It's a balance.

I, for one, am not trying to drive "Indy" people away.

After all, many of us were once them.



Uh, what about criminals?
 
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