Auditing effectiveness...Does it really work?

www.cnn.com

His Holiness, the Bill Murray

Murray is not just a very funny actor; he's an icon who represents, onscreen and off, the longing for a more engaged and awakened life.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com


Bill Murray has done a couple of films including humor about the East.

Some religions of the East and a couple of the processes in Scientology, could, if done right.... de-vector-ize you. There are many sayings in the Bible attributed to Jesus that aren't Jewish in nature. They are warnings about clinging to a vector and how you regretfully get what are protesting against. To a man, who has everything, more will be given; from a man who has nothing, everything will be taken away. There's a chastisement about asking about the End, when you don't know the beginning, to even logically think about it. And the criticism that his followers could ask about the nature of heaven while ignoring the one right in front of them.

I think the religions of Tibet were seeping into the beginnings of Christian philosophy. The new followers that wanted to escape this world for a better one. They kept being told that the problem was with their window to the world, how they falsely understand reality, mentally placing the accents on the wrong syllABBLE. Possibly those yearning to go heaven no longer wanted to be individuals confined in a world of pain. There was enough of it then in the Roman world. The idea of turning the other cheek was a way to escape trapping self in a chronic cycle of getting even for being made to lose.

And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
 
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SouthernCanuck said:
I like this quote of his:

"If science proves some belief of Buddhism wrong, then Buddhism will have to change." Our Faith in Science | The 14th Dalai Lama

He is a great man, but for buddhism I'd go with Ajahn Chah. 🐞
Click to expand...

The Buddhism tradition is more related to philosophy than to religious faith. The pillars are not beliefs but the sole practice of meditation in order to gain awareness to live better and end the cycle of suffering

Such pretense, regarding the benefit of meditation, have been extensively studied over the last few decades. Many clinical studies have been conducted, to evaluate the changes happening in the brain and neorobiology upon regularly practicing mindfulness meditation. Thus, the schools of Medicine, psychiatry and psychology are including such practice to be added in the toolbox of the therapist. (all can be easily found on Internet)

It is considered a proven effective practice to better mental health issues like trauma, depression, anxiety, toxic stress as well as other physical issues like high blood pressure. Although it has never pretended to be a cure or to replace it.

Here is a very eigbtening link regarding some of those studies conducted in universitir with Matthieu Ricard.

www.matthieuricard.org

Science - Articles - Matthieu Ricard

www.matthieuricard.org www.matthieuricard.org
 
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As someone who audited for some 20 years, I feel I should jump in on this thread. In those 20 years both as an auditor and as a case supervisor, I became aware that only a minute small percentage of people achieved the case gain that manifested in HUGE LIFE SUCCESS, ENLIGHTENMENT AND ABILITY.

There has never been a Scientologist who won a Nobel Prize, who won GOLD at Olympics, who achieved mastery in Music or an Academy Award as an Actor.

(Tom Cruise and John Travolta were successful in their own right as actors and SCN had little to do with their rise to top Celebrity, Both Cruise and Travolta had innate abilities and talent.)

Even though many write glowing (mandatory) *SUCCESS STORIES*, most public taking counseling do not hold any gains.

The momentary glowing moments have no sustainability and many continuously get themselves into trouble and involve themselves in destructive actions, , financial irregularities and even criminal acts which the cult carefully hides under wraps.

This includes *OT 8s* who have done the entire bridge. I personally know of a dozen OT 8s that went Type 3 after doing OT 8. That is after years and years of jettisoning their attached spirits, enduring the 6 month 75 question sec checks and doing everything asked of them.

androvillans.wordpress.com

The First Hundred Clears in Scientology, What Went Wrong??

When L. Ron Hubbard unleashed Dianetics upon the unsuspecting world in May of 1950 he claimed that this “New Science of the Mind,” was good for just about anything that was ailin…
androvillans.wordpress.com androvillans.wordpress.com
 
Karen de la Carriere said:
As someone who audited for some 20 years, I feel I should jump in on this thread. In those 20 years both as an auditor and as a case supervisor, I became aware that only a minute small percentage of people achieved the case gain that manifested in HUGE LIFE SUCCESS, ENLIGHTENMENT AND ABILITY.

There has never been a Scientologist who won a Nobel Prize, who won GOLD at Olympics, who achieved mastery in Music or an Academy Award as an Actor.

(Tom Cruise and John Travolta were successful in their own right as actors and SCN had little to do with their rise to top Celebrity, Both Cruise and Travolta had innate abilities and talent.)

Even though many write glowing (mandatory) *SUCCESS STORIES*, most public taking counseling do not hold any gains.

The momentary glowing moments have no sustainability and many continuously get themselves into trouble and involve themselves in destructive actions, , financial irregularities and even criminal acts which the cult carefully hides under wraps.

This includes *OT 8s* who have done the entire bridge. I personally know of a dozen OT 8s that went Type 3 after doing OT 8. That is after years and years of jettisoning their attached spirits, enduring the 6 month 75 question sec checks and doing everything asked of them.

androvillans.wordpress.com

The First Hundred Clears in Scientology, What Went Wrong??

When L. Ron Hubbard unleashed Dianetics upon the unsuspecting world in May of 1950 he claimed that this “New Science of the Mind,” was good for just about anything that was ailin…
androvillans.wordpress.com androvillans.wordpress.com
Click to expand...

Scientology claims that certain abilities are achieved at particular points on the Bridge. If they genuinely wished to ensure that their customers achieved these abilities they would thoroughly test them after each grade, making the person demonstrate those abilities in many different situations.

Instead, what happens is that the customer is prompted to go to the examiner to attest that he completed a grade. This is a type of evaluation really, as it is the auditor, not the customer, who determines when it is time to attest.

But the examiner doesn't ever examine whether the customer has attained those abilities that should have been attained. And how would the customer even know for himself whether he's achieved the abilities or not without an opportunity to demonstrate the abilities?

If I study to become a pilot as in order to fly planes, the school doesn't just give me a certificate after I attest that I feel good about flying planes. They give me a test which includes piloting an actual plane, where I demonstrate my ability to safely and competently fly a plane. If they issued certificates to students without this particular step they would be charged with fraud as well as other criminal charges.
 
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What ever happened to the original poster? As far as I can tell he / she has never responded to our heart felt missives.

Mimsey
 
An example of what I state above on Scnists actually committing felonies...a prime example would be Rex Fowler.

He has been on Solo Nots for 20 years and was still "on the level". 40 year Scientolgist Rex Fowler shoots his staff member Thomas in the brain dead while auditing on SOLO NOTS (between sessions) His wife was frantic that is OT materials in might be looked at while police searched his home. Her attention was PRIMARILY on the "security" of the materials rather than the dead body lying there til the coroner arrived.

Rex Fowler had not paid his staff for 2 years...all the money went to IAS and the other cult causes. When his staff member Thomas Ciancio demanded pay (It was a software company) he got a bullet in the brain.
whyweprotest.net

1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged

1st degree Murder - Rev. William Rex Fowler Scientology Minister Charged START HERE: WWP Wiki -- William Rex Fowler NEXT THREAD:...
whyweprotest.net
Rex-Fowler-Thomas-P-Ciancio.jpgrexfowlermugshot.jpg
 
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@Karen de la Carriere

Hi karen,

This is a question about Independent Scientology.

Is Independent Scientology becoming more like Scientology in practice, meaning are they now adopting the policy as well as the tech?
 
freethinker said:
@Karen de la Carriere

Hi karen,

This is a question about Independent Scientology.

Is Independent Scientology becoming more like Scientology in practice, meaning are they now adopting the policy as well as the tech?
Click to expand...


Dear Freethinker,

I have little to no knowledge of this area. I do have a couple of occasional Facebook friends who would call themselves Independent Scientology but that's as far as it goes.

It is baffling to me that the cult that huffs and puffs and threatens and snarls has never filed one single law suit on their copyrighted trademarked *tech* being used ~~ this group uses all of Hubbard per their Internet sites ~~

Why no law suit ? Do they believe they have already lost these trademarks. ?

?

 
Karen de la Carriere said:
Dear Freethinker,

I have little to no knowledge of this area. I do have a couple of occasional Facebook friends who would call themselves Independent Scientology but that's as far as it goes.

It is baffling to me that the cult that huffs and puffs and threatens and snarls has never filed one single law suit on their copyrighted trademarked *tech* being used ~~ this group uses all of Hubbard per their Internet sites ~~

Why no law suit ? Do they believe they have already lost these trademarks. ?

?
Click to expand...
That is an interesting question. They seem to be protective of whatever they have going on which is a policy of the CO$.

Additionally, would a collaboration between the two be more worthwhile between them than to be at odds?

It seems to me there have been more fights between Independents and ESMB 1 and ESMB 2 members than there have been OSA types.

Dexter's reaction to being questioned on his motives bore a strong resemblance to how a church member would react which comes from the policies of Hubbard.

The danger of Scientology is two fold, the tech, which has been shown to mess people up, and the policy which defends the tech with violent reaction.

A technology which improves the mind and spirit should not have such a violent reaction to being questioned on effectiveness.

Could Independent Scientology be in collaboration with the Official Church in a quid pro quo?
 
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No One said:
@Mao
It's a double bind. The ultimate catch 22.

If your gains are not permanent (and they will not be, guaranteed) YOU are the SP or are PTS and will have to handle / recruit or disconnect from the person(s) telling you it's bad, a cult, etc..

It's NEVER from the lack of efficacy of the technology or process. (so it's written).

It works on EVERYONE the SAME, except for those it doesn't, and it's their fault that it doesn't, it is YOUR fault that it doesn't. You can't talk about it, however, or compare because that is also against the rules.

If you try it, good luck to you. Do not try it. I would RUN as fast and as far away as possible; close, lock and bar the doors and windows. Put caulking and sealing foam in the cracks.

Oh yea, last thing.. the ONE thing (Abuse) I wanted to have addressed when I started (as a child) was NEVER addressed. (It didn't read on their E-meter so it wasn't taken up - classic bait and switch).

P.S. I have Anxiety and Fibro along with some other challenges.

I 100% believe that many of my current problems were CAUSED BY and came from the stress of working as a staff member and sea org member in the 'Church'.

I have been out for more than a decade and I am still fucked up. Better off but fucked up.

-No One
Click to expand...
This says it all about Scientology Auditing:

It's a double bind. The ultimate catch 22.

"If your gains are not permanent (and they will not be, guaranteed) YOU are the SP or are PTS and will have to handle / recruit or disconnect from the person(s) telling you it's bad, a cult, etc.."
 
Karen de la Carriere said:
Dear Freethinker,
I have little to no knowledge of this area. I do have a couple of occasional Facebook friends who would call themselves Independent Scientology but that's as far as it goes.
It is baffling to me that the cult that huffs and puffs and threatens and snarls has never filed one single law suit on their copyrighted trademarked *tech* being used ~~ this group uses all of Hubbard per their Internet sites ~~
Why no law suit ? Do they believe they have already lost these trademarks. ?
?
Click to expand...

Isn't that because they expose themselves to the religious amendment - they can't argue against the unauthorized use of the tech without the amendment being used as a defense against the church's suit?

Mimsey
 
Out Ethics said:
This says it all about Scientology Auditing:

It's a double bind. The ultimate catch 22.

"If your gains are not permanent (and they will not be, guaranteed) YOU are the SP or are PTS and will have to handle / recruit or disconnect from the person(s) telling you it's bad, a cult, etc.."
Click to expand...


Yes, this post is right on the nose.
The client is blamed for not maintaining case gain.
Mostly its because of the all crimes and overts that must be going on.
Off the Reg for another $25,000 for confessionals !

The tech is viewed as flawless.
Only a criminal or PTS would not make the gains they allege will happen. !
 
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Karen de la Carriere said:
Yes, this post is right on the nose.
The client is blamed for not maintaining case gain.
Mostly its because of the all crimes and overts that must be going on.
Off the Reg for another $25,000 for confessionals ?

The tech is viewed as flawless.
Only a criminal or PTS would not make the gains they allege will happen. !
Click to expand...
The escape clause. However Hubbard said it was auditing that cures these things, not sec checks. Sec checks begin with "I am not auditing you" which throws the Auditors Code right out. Hubbard did say the effective way to handle overts is with auditing, so WTF are they doing sec checks to handle what auditing is supposed to handle.

Because auditing doesn't "handle" anything. Sec checks are just dirt finding sessions to use against the inevitably future SP because they know none of it works, and it's the same with the Independants, they are trying to make money on the same useless tech.

They say they are fixing it but you can't fix that which never worked.

Why are these Independants fixing a technology they say works? how do they determine what needs fixing? A technology fixed is someone getting the gains they are promised so, how many Independent clears and OT are there?

Dexter points to testimonials. which are about as reliable as success stories which aren't reliable at all.

The tech is a fraud and so is Independent Scientology or any derivative of "fixed Hubbards mistakes". Who knows where the mistakes were, and how did they find them? What is there evidence it is "fixed".
 
freethinker said:
The escape clause. However Hubbard said it was auditing that cures these things, not sec checks. Sec checks begin with "I am not auditing you" which throws the Auditors Code right out. Hubbard did say the effective way to handle overts is with auditing, so WTF are they doing sec checks to handle what auditing is supposed to handle.

Because auditing doesn't "handle" anything. Sec checks are just dirt finding sessions to use against the inevitably future SP because they know none of it works, and it's the same with the Independants, they are trying to make money on the same useless tech.

They say they are fixing it but you can't fix that which never worked.

Why are these Independants fixing a technology they say works? how do they determine what needs fixing? A technology fixed is someone getting the gains they are promised so, how many Independent clears and OT are there?

Dexter points to testimonials. which are about as reliable as success stories which aren't reliable at all.

The tech is a fraud and so is Independent Scientology or any derivative of "fixed Hubbards mistakes". Who knows where the mistakes were, and how did they find them? What is there evidence it is "fixed".
Click to expand...
When I heard an auditor say "I am not auditing you" I thought - why are people paying for auditing rates then?
 
Out Ethics said:
When I heard an auditor say "I am not auditing you" I thought - why are people paying for auditing rates then?
Click to expand...
Because that is Scientology, you pay for something no matter what.
 
Karen de la Carriere said:
Dear Freethinker,

I have little to no knowledge of this area. I do have a couple of occasional Facebook friends who would call themselves Independent Scientology but that's as far as it goes.

It is baffling to me that the cult that huffs and puffs and threatens and snarls has never filed one single law suit on their copyrighted trademarked *tech* being used ~~ this group uses all of Hubbard per their Internet sites ~~

Why no law suit ? Do they believe they have already lost these trademarks. ?

?
Click to expand...

Why no law suit and do they believe they have already lost these trademarks?

Firstly I don't think the entity which owns most of the scientology TMs (RTC) thinks for one second they have "lost" the TMs. The TMs are neatly registered (internationally) for many years to come as far as I can tell.

So why no legal actions against violations of the legally owned intellectual property? This is a very good question for a skilled intellectual property lawyer.

I suspect that a case could potentially be sitting in the background and if required will be filed when timing is right. Another option is that the TMs that bring in some juicy big money are not under threat.

Scientology, the entity, is a labyrinth. Could it be that what you see is not what is really happening? I think perhaps Hubbard himself explained this best when he wrote words to the effect "if you want to hide something make it too incredible for people to believe".

The question then could become "what is scientology, the visible entity, hiding?" We know that it channels funds through tax havens (off-shore jurisdictions) so what conduits is it using?
 
I doubt they would get very far with a suit against an indy organization. Kinda be like Methodists saying Baptists can't use the bible. What kind of religion would do such a thing? A business would. A religion - not so much.
 
The Independents are such a minute, TINY, infinitesimal, incalculably small part of Scientology and Scientologists that I feel it is discussed way out of proportion to the who, what, when, where, how and what CRIMES are being committed here and now.

I stay focused on the cult. Diverting off the cult into some nondescript, non effective label does nothing to expose the rogue cult and is simply off track and a diversion of where I want to put my attention.

Independents come and go. It is a soft landing and many wake up after learning more, reading more, experiencing Fair Game and watching Leah Remini and the Aftermath !
 
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