5000 personal docs of Mike Rinder.....

[Lee #28]

I usually start out by saying I don't keep up with all this stuff.....

These current videos from Aaron about Mike Rinder hiding 5000 personal documents that he saved from his time in the SO......that show he did in actual fact have plenty of knowledge of Child SA.....in the Cult.

And apparently Leah is mad about this now.....

So......I don't know what Mike Rinder wrote or said about child SA......so can't really say much of anything about that. But apparently he denied any knowledge of this happening.....

What I can say from 27 years of personal experience in the Cult is that the Staff gossip an enormous amount! Information travels fast on the grapevine... inside each Org and Org to Org...

So....if or as Mike Rinder lied about this.....what was his reasoning to do so?

 

[TheSneakster]

Mike Rinder himself addressed this accusation in an article on his blog titled It's Never a Bad Day for a Good Smear dated Feb 8, 2024. AFAICT, Aaron is just repeating his (and SPTV collaborator's) lies from well over 18 month ago.

If Aaron truly believed he had evidence of Mike Rinder covering up CSA, he would have shown those files to law enforcement when they came into his possession well over 18 months ago (while Mike Rinder was still alive), not making up OSA-style smear attack stories about it on YouTube now after the man has been dead for over 7 months and is no longer around to defend himself from them.

There was also a new claim that the “recently released OSA documents” were somehow proof of my involvement in crimes, for which I was desperately trying to evade prosecution. All of those “OSA documents” were on my thumb drive when I escaped. I gave them to the FBI in the first meeting I had with them in 2010, a fact I have testified to under oath (that testimony was filed again a week ago in Leah Remini’s civil case).

I appreciate that many of those who claim to be experts on what I knew, or more often what I should have known, what they think I covered up and am still covering up were once in the Sea Org. However, none of them were ever in any positions of significant authority in upper management and were not involved with external affairs. Only a handful of them have ever met David Miscavige, let alone worked directly for him. They really have no basis for the assumptions and conclusions they draw, though they try to sound as though they do.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

So....if or as Mike Rinder lied about this.....what was his reasoning to do so?

See my post from five years ago. Has a few clues.

Mike was in the Sea Org for 34 years, saw or participated in a ton
of discreditable acts and situations. Some he initiated, some he
was forced into by policy and group pressures. His signature is
on a ton of documents and orders over 34 years. So be it.

I've always maintained that he got caught in a situation where it
was going to be difficult, if not impossible, to ever (even after his
death) to distance himself from his long and documented history.
That's the way History -- with a capital H -- works and is written
or remembered. This would apply to everyone who was at the top
of scientology for any length of time and left.

This stuff does not wash off easily. Most people simply leave and
stay mum and hope people don't find out all what they did or were
part of. I've talked to more than a few ex-SO who couldn't ever wash
off or resolve their regrets or feeling of guilt for acts, real or imagined.

I defer to cowboy. Some of the greatest posts ever written on ESMB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cowboy's family was in the SO . . . on the ship Apollo, then
cowboy worked at Hubbard's secret La Quinta bolt-hole.

"I spent thousands of hours over many years in daily contact with the man.​

I experienced first hand more than most could even imagine."​

cowboy was roped in early. cowboy was a messenger
for Hubbard as a teen and young man for quite a few years.

". . . I started working at about 12."​

​

"I'm deluged still with thoughts and sorrows and regrets, acceptance of the harm I directly caused others through following orders. Hitler's orders to his staff were not enough to free them from consequences for their War Crimes. I can make excuses, but, in many ways I caused harm. I remember convincing someone to join the SO, to bring her family and young children in, to see her a year later in the RPF, her kids being worked like adults, being haunted by the unspoken accusation in her glance, "Why did you take me and my family away from the world we knew, for this?" her gaze said to me. Whatever happened to her, I wonder. Did she and her children leave, or did I rob them of their childhood like mine was robbed from me?"​

~ excerpt from cowboy's final post on ESMB I ~​

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Every moment in your life is a turning and every one a choosing. Somewhere you made a choice. All
followed to this. The accounting is scrupulous. The shape is drawn. No line can be erased. I had no
belief in your ability to move a coin to your bidding. How could you? A person's path through the
world seldom changes and even more seldom will it change abruptly. And the shape of your path was
visible from the beginning.”
Anton Chigurh, No Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Type4_PTS]

I usually start out by saying I don't keep up with all this stuff.....

These current videos from Aaron about Mike Rinder hiding 5000 personal documents that he saved from his time in the SO......that show he did in actual fact have plenty of knowledge of Child SA.....in the Cult.

And apparently Leah is mad about this now.....

So......I don't know what Mike Rinder wrote or said about child SA......so can't really say much of anything about that. But apparently he denied any knowledge of this happening.....

What I can say from 27 years of personal experience in the Cult is that the Staff gossip an enormous amount! Information travels fast on the grapevine... inside each Org and Org to Org...

So....if or as Mike Rinder lied about this.....what was his reasoning to do so?

My understanding is that Rinder turned over all documents he had to the FBI.

That's not exactly "hiding" anything.

 

[TheSneakster]

See my post from five years ago. Has a few clues.

Not one word of your irrelevant blather actually supports Aaron Smith-Levin's despicable claim made in his video linked in the OP. True facts cannot be reasoned or speculated into existence.

From Rinder's Feb 8, 2024 blog entry linked above:

Yes, I was the head of OSA at various times over a long period . But that does not equate to knowing every heinous and illegal act going on in scientology. That would be impossible. What I do know is how scientology follows exact procedures and policies dictated by Hubbard. Those polices are unchanging. I detail in my book and in various other places what my role was – while I always had the job of spokesperson for major media regardless of my position, I also held many other posts including Chief Officer CMO International, ED Int Project Ops, RPFer, LRH Personal PR Officer International, CO CMO International, Book Editor and denizen of The Hole. When I was actually on post as the head of OSA, my primary function was to deal with matters that had come to the attention of Miscavige. For example, I spent several years in Clearwater doing nothing but handling the Lisa McPherson criminal and civil cases. During that time nobody from OSA was allowed to “distract” me with anything unrelated to the McPherson cases.

And as I had already explained to Mirriam (and law enforcement in her case), the details of her molestation was not something I had been aware of until she told her story for The Aftermath show.

Was I involved in Fair Game operations of which I am not proud when I was a scientology executive? Absolutely. As I mentioned at the outset of this blog post, I have spent the last 15 years trying to atone for what I was involved in.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Relax . . . LOL. Here's a solution.

Epstein Files . . . release them all unredacted; transparency and sunlight; let people read 'em.

JFK Assassination Files . . . release them all unredacted; transparency and sunlight; let people read 'em.

Fauci and Covid Files . . . release them all unredacted; transparency and sunlight; let people read 'em.

The Rinder 5000 Thumb Drive -- upload to a public website or location on the Internet (ala Ed Snowden's
NSA document drop in 2013) . . . release them all unredacted; transparency and sunlight; let people read 'em.

What's the problem? Let's clear the air about the speculation re: what's on the files and what's not on them.
Put them all in the public domain. Let the chips fall where they may.

What would be the problem? Mike faces no liability or blow back where's he's at right now. No liability from
"stealing" them or removing them. They're just out in the wild now. No one to arrest or sue. If they magically
showed up someplace on a server . . . no biggie. Recent provenance couldn't be traced, IMO.

Footnote: Releasing all the files would clear up any remaining controversies surrounding Rinder and​

presumably make @TheSneakster happier. Clearing Rinder's name and letting him rest in peace.​

Release the files!​

I asked ChatGPT about this and it's not up to speed, up to date about the topic.

 

[guanoloco]

It's absolutely inconceivable that Rinder's post in OSA is compatible with the claim of him being unaware of CSA accusations.

KRs to that degree would be all over his lines for the potential PR flap, alone.

 

[TheSneakster]

KRs to that degree would be all over his lines for the potential PR flap, alone.

Oh, really?

So what was your position at OSA International that granted you sure and certain knowledge as to which reports went to Mike Rinder and which did not ?

There have been multiple reports from that it is Kirsti Caetano's job to handle cover-ups of any criminal actions of C of $ staff or public members so that they do not become external legal threats that Mike Rinder would then have to deal with. We've had multiple reports that it was her that ordered the highly abusive "handlings" of the three Jane Does to cover up Danny Masterson's rape crimes.

Are you now claiming to have worked at OSA INT in such a position as to know for a true those reports are false ?

 

[guanoloco]

Oh, really?

So what was your position at OSA International that granted you sure and certain knowledge as to which reports went to Mike Rinder and which did not ?

There have been multiple reports from that it is Kirsti Caetano's job to handle cover-ups of any criminal actions of C of $ staff or public members so that they do not become external legal threats that Mike Rinder would then have to deal with. We've had multiple reports that it was her that ordered the highly abusive "handlings" of the three Jane Does to cover up Danny Masterson's rape crimes.

Are you now claiming to have worked at OSA INT in such a position as to know for a true those reports are false ?

Nothing you wrote counters anything. Who gives a fuck how many reports exist for what she did or her role - none of that negates whether Rinder would know about potential flaps while she was doing any handlings.

 

[TheSneakster]

What's the problem? Let's clear the air about the speculation re: what's on the files and what's not on them.
Put them all in the public domain. Let the chips fall where they may.

Oh, yeah. 5,000 documents of OSA planning and operations against Scientology enemies full of the targetted victims' personal identifying information, addresses, phone numbers, day to day movement patterns (from P.I. reports), personal connections OSA suspects or has determined, business affairs, travel information, banking information, etc. etc. etc.

And you want to release those files unredacted without the slightest care or concern for what harm might be inflicted upon those folks by committing the massive privacy violation you demand.

Well, talk to Aaron Smith-Levin. He says he has those docs. Why hasn't he published them, yet ?

 

[TheSneakster]

Nothing you wrote counters anything. Who gives a fuck how many reports exist for what she did or her role - none of that negates whether Rinder would know about potential flaps while she was doing any handlings.

OK, I'll vary the question. If you weren't OSA INT staff, then what is the source of your asserted knowledge of exactly what reports would or would not have made it past the communicator for the Commanding Officer, OSA International ? Mike Rinder had an entire organization of many hundreds of staff under him whose job was (per dozens of Ron Hubbard policies like What An Executive Wants On His Lines) to keep him from having to know about them because they were handling their assigned jobs. Rinder's assigned (by David Miscavige) job was handling external threats, not internal ones. Internal threats was Kirsti Caetano's job.

 

[Type4_PTS]

It's absolutely inconceivable that Rinder's post in OSA is compatible with the claim of him being unaware of CSA accusations.

If anyone can link to an interview where Rinder claims to have been unaware of CSA accusations, I'd be interested. But these days, I don't take what Aaron's claiming at face value.

It wouldn't change my opinion of Rinder either way. I don't doubt that Rinder did things while working as the head of OSA INT that were damaging to others. But there were very few others who did as much as he did to expose Scientology and help ex-scientologists involved in litigation against the CoS. He (as well as some others) brought enough evidence to the FBI, which should have resulted in prosecutions IMO.
And the work he did with Leah on their TV show exposed the true nature of the organization to millions.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

.
I asked Don Hubbard (Ron's evil twin brother) about the subject of culpability, since he was there--helping to do the research and manage Scientology at all times with LRH, until the time he escaped from his chain locker prison in 1982.

Don paused in reflection a very long time after I asked him about the culpability of himself and all other Scientologists who "contributed to the motion of" Scientology's fiercely fanatical crime wave at any level---even those who simply donated money that knowingly or unknowingly ended up being used by the Guardians Office and/or OSA black operations. I'll just cut//paste his response:

In the matter of Nazis and all other megalomaniacal cults—
Sometimes people do good things for good reasons...
Sometimes people do bad things for good reasons...
Sometimes people do good things for bad reasons...
Sometimes people do bad things for bad reasons...
Sometimes people do bad things because they
don't actually realize what they are doing
since they themselves are victims of a cult.
Yes, that should explain Nazis and cults
and politics and all other human
groups, endeavors and people
who ever lived or did
anything, or did
nothing.

—Don Hubbard

..


..​

 

[guanoloco]

OK, I'll vary the question. If you weren't OSA INT staff, then what is the source of your asserted knowledge of exactly what reports would or would not have made it past the communicator for the Commanding Officer, OSA International ? Mike Rinder had an entire organization of many hundreds of staff under him whose job was (per dozens of Ron Hubbard policies like What An Executive Wants On His Lines) to keep him from having to know about them because they were handling their assigned jobs. Rinder's assigned (by David Miscavige) job was handling external threats, not internal ones. Internal threats was Kirsti Caetano's job.

I never asserted any knowledge.

An assertion of knowledge is a comment like "I know for a fact..."

It's strawman to argue for my sources of asserted facts.

Rather, let's get yours. Where's the evidence that Rinder wouldn't know? That's absurd that he would be on Ted Koppel and completely oblivious to a potential threat like that where his entire post and existence serves only to PR a slave cult. Furthermore, he's in that role for 30 years.

To me, that means 1 of 2 possible conclusions.

1, he's lying to escape personal legal liability.

2, not a single incident occurred.

Unless you have conclusive proof otherwise, proving a different conclusion, you're full of shit.

 

[guanoloco]

If anyone can link to an interview where Rinder claims to have been unaware of CSA accusations, I'd be interested. But these days, I don't take what Aaron's claiming at face value.

It wouldn't change my opinion of Rinder either way. I don't doubt that Rinder did things while working as the head of OSA INT that were damaging to others. But there were very few others who did as much as he did to expose Scientology and help ex-scientologists involved in litigation against the CoS. He (as well as some others) brought enough evidence to t
he FBI, which should have resulted in prosecutions IMO.
And the work he did with Leah on their TV show exposed the true nature of the organization to millions.

No doubt the net aggregate is positive.

Not passing any judgment - personally I find it absurd that anyone at that capacity could not have known.

 

[I M Dex]

More pathetic self-serving horseshit from Aaron. Not that I thought much of him to begin with, his way being to present self-glorifying speculation as fact, but to stoop so low as to try to slime Mike Rinder, who worked far more selflessly and earnestly to spread awareness, share the truth, help others and compensate for having been a notable cog in a very bad machine, and who passed of cancer without imposing any drama about it (Aaron would have milked it for all the martyrdom he could squeeze out of it if it were him). This is a new low, and one of the most cringe-worthy things I've ever encountered. Holy cow Aaron, you're the one who forced the Foundation's hand in offloading you with your own spectacularly reprehensible personal behavior. You can't make the self-generated stink go away by blaming someone else for reacting in the only sensible way possible. You still did what you did, and the loss of status, which you obviously crave desperately, is all on you. Not Mike Rinder. You. Your idiotic ridiculous defense "What ever I do in my personal life shouldn't exempt me from a public position" is very transparent. If there was any evidence that Rinder had behaved badly personally as you have, you'd be shouting about it from the rooftops.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

In the matter of Nazis and all other megalomaniacal cults—
Sometimes people do good things for good reasons...
Sometimes people do bad things for good reasons...
Sometimes people do good things for bad reasons...
Sometimes people do bad things for bad reasons...
Sometimes people do bad things because they
don't actually realize what they are doing
since they themselves are victims of a cult.
Yes, that should explain Nazis and cults
and politics and all other human
groups, endeavors and people
who ever lived or did
anything, or did
nothing.
Don Hubbard

​

 

[Lee #28]

Looks like I've stirred up things a bit.... Not my intention. But it happens with these touchy subjects, I guess.

My point in the OP was that it is a ridiculous assumption that Staff / SO would not know about a child SA incident, if it came out in an Org......during a Session or Ethics handling....or a Qual Cram....

This is due to rampant gossip.

I've mentioned a story twice where I observed this happening at AOLA.

Then to think that everyone is going to write a "report" or KR or something is ridiculous also.... Unfortunately, even more ridiculous is to think that someone would report it to the local Police. It just wouldn't happen ...back then.

Sure I would think the primary subjects would write up reports.....but not everyone in the ORG would....even though they would know about it having happened...

There was one event.....a murder that a PC committed......and he did wind up in prison. But I don't know how he was found out or caught. He was a Narconon PC.....with a Field Auditor..... I think these type of things are kept very hush hush....and swept under that carpet ASAP. I was good friends with the Field Auditor....and he told me. Again, gossip. I did read a little blurb in the LA Times about it....but Scientology was not mentioned.

I read here that Lisa Marie was called to Flag for a meeting with DM about the Masterson Jane Does.......but that the meeting then didn't take place with DM. Perhaps a very high profile example....but these things IMO go to the top of the Command Structure. The reason they do go to the top is for the protection of the Cult.... to quash any possibility of a "flap.." Anything unbecoming of a Scientologist... Protect the PR....

To think that Staff don't know about these things is weird... They know. But they don't think it is important in their world view...

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Looks like I've stirred up things a bit....

 

[ILove2Lurk]

The Rinder 5000 Thumb Drive -- upload to a public website or location on the Internet (ala Ed Snowden's
NSA document drop in 2013) . . . release them all unredacted; transparency and sunlight; let people read 'em.
. . .
They're just out in the wild now.

All I knew about these files is what Aaron revealed in his video recently.
Here's what more I found out. On Reddit (from 21 days ago):

I have the files. There are zero auditing files. These files, about 5000 files, are all​

from 2004 and are selected files that Mike Rinder was working on at the time he left.​

Almost a third of these files concern John Sweeney and his documentary on the cult.​

​

There's some discussion about making these files available to all, but some need to​

be redacted because they include a small amount of very personal info that should​

not be shared publicly. The files are a big mess and need major sorting/organizing.​

Patty Moher (Ex GO, Ex OSA)​

​

From what I understand about the contents of the USBdrive: It is mostly OSA PR stuff.​

Everything that OSA was doing with celebrities, esp. in Hollywood. And not only current​

ops, but also past ones.​

Wolf391​

​

I have the files if anyone wants them I’ll email them to you - not sure why they’re a secret​

XXXXXX​

​

Some files include highly sensitive information on some of the then Sea Org members. . . .​

Redact the info that could harm others and then give them out.​

Patty Moher (Ex GO, Ex OSA)​

"Much ado about nothing?" No smoking guns? No big deal actually? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯