You May Think You Are The Lone Ranger But You Have A Large Posse Riding With You Every Day

Veda

Veda

Well-known member
Type4_PTS said:
....

I'm not familiar with David's stuff but from a brief description of his I read in another thread what he does is not Scientology.
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Perhaps a public service announcement is necessary:

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT SCIENTOLOGY.

Now, I'd appreciate a response to my questions about Spiritual Rescue Technology from David St. Lawrence.
 
Z

Zertel

Well-known member
Veda said:
Perhaps a public service announcement is necessary:

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT SCIENTOLOGY.

Now, I'd appreciate a response to my questions about Spiritual Rescue Technology from David St. Lawrence.
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I think the thread is kind of fun. Where else could you talk seriously about this kind of stuff? Not a good topic for a conversation in the line at the supermarket.

And it is in the proper forum.
 
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HelluvaHoax!

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Reyne Mayer said:
ironically that was essentially one of the critiques of classic Freudian analysis, which was falling out of favor in good part due to having turned out to be an often almost bottomless pit of introspection that was largely ineffective, right around the time that LRH started railing about psychiatry and its high costs -- and then going down much the same path as the Freudians.
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Even if one gave Hubbard the benefit of the doubt and assumed that he was trying to "free mankind", there is something else quite wickedly avaricious and damning in the cult's DNA. It's the meticulously "staged" con game embedded in every aspect of his "spiritually ascendant" ladder. Or was it a bridge? LOL

I am talking about the outrageous quantity and treachery of Hubbard's "bait & switch" gimmicks. Here's an example:

WOG
Wow, if I get auditing are you saying I will go "Clear" and
get all of the supernatural abilities in the Dianetics book, and
also become perfectly healthy and happy?!"

RON
Why yes, your miserably doomed life will become totally ideal!

WOG
I'll do it!

* * * * * 5 YEARS AND $250,000 LATER * * * * *

RON
Congratulations on going Clear!
Here's your certificate and your shiny Clear bracelet!

CLEARED WOG
Wow, this is amazing. I couldn't be happier, thanks!

RON
Not so fast. Now that you are a Clear, you are in the
"Non Interference Area". That means that you are
in grave danger. You should be terrified.

CLEARED WOG
OMG, really?! You're freaking me out.
I thought you said my life would be Ideal
when I went Clear, but now that I made it
to Clear, you're saying I'm fucked?

RON
Yes, you are fucked. But very very very luckily,
I just happen to know how to help you get unfucked.
You simply need to do OT III where we help you
find invisible body aliens that are fucking with you.

CLEARED WOG
Whatever it is, I'll do it! But after I get rid of those
body aliens on OT III, are you saying that's the last
time I will ever be suppressed by those damn aliens?

RON
Absolutely, after you finish OT III, your
miserably doomed life will be totally ideal!

CLEARED WOG
Are you sure you're not lying
to me—like the last time you
said my life would be Ideal
if I went Clear?

RON
LOL! Why the heck would I lie to you? That's
ridiculous! Don't you know that I wrote
the book THE WAY TO HAPPINESS
that says nobody should lie?


.
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R

Riddick

I clap to no man
Type4_PTS said:
We should be grateful that CoS charges 600K for its services. Had it been affordable to everyone like 99.9% of all other religions than more people would have got sucked into it. The absolute greed of Hubbard and Miscavige had a positive effect in slowing the spread of Scientology. The growth rate of that organization is so slow that they're going to need to alter the Sea Org contracts, making S.O. members sign 100 Billion year contracts. :D
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They don't charge 600k for services all at once. It's done over time, that's where the analogy of slowly boiling a frog in a pot of water means when folks have said that like Mike Rinder. It also means one has been slowly introduced into scientology, one step at a time, one course or auditing action at a time, first a little money to buy, then more, then more, etc. You don't know what you are talking about when you say things like you posted. Sorry, not to pick on you, but be more specific otherwise it's false info.
 
R

Riddick

I clap to no man
Type4_PTS

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Riddick said:
They don't charge 600k for services all at once. It's done over time, that's where the analogy of slowly boiling a frog in a pot of water means when folks have said that like Mike Rinder. It also means one has been slowly introduced into scientology, one step at a time, one course or auditing action at a time, first a little money to buy, then more, then more, etc. You don't know what you are talking about when you say things like you posted. Sorry, not to pick on you, but be more specific otherwise it's false info.
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Actually, I do know what I was talking about. I was a public briefly before becoming a staff member, and I was interviewed (I believe by the D of P if I remember correctly) and he went over the entire Bridge with me as it was at that time, and then I was sent to the Reg. I had a pretty good concept of what the entire bridge would have cost me within my very first month or two in Scientology. And the reg would have been more than happy to receive the entire amount in one shot had I been able to do that. Not all public are handled that way but some are, which I saw firsthand during my 7 years as a staff member at Boston Org.

By the way, I never wrote that they charge 600K for services all at once. So you can take your strawman argument and stick it where the sun don't shine.
 
R

Riddick

I clap to no man
Type4_PTS said:
Actually, I do know what I was talking about. I was a public briefly before becoming a staff member, and I was interviewed (I believe by the D of P if I remember correctly) and he went over the entire Bridge with me as it was at that time, and then I was sent to the Reg. I had a pretty good concept of what the entire bridge would have cost me within my very first month or two in Scientology. And the reg would have been more than happy to receive the entire amount in one shot had I been able to do that. Not all public are handled that way but some are, which I saw firsthand during my 7 years as a staff member at Boston Org.

By the way, I never wrote that they charge 600K for services all at once. So you can take your strawman argument and stick it where the sun don't shine.
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I appreciate that comment by you. You were very smart to figure it out, but you did say in your earlier post 600k.

When I was on staff at the SF Mission during it's heyday, the regs would sell the dentists and chiro's clear packages, they were about 30-40k. Then The Time magazine came out, and lots of those folks wanted refunds. I was very new at the time.

Did you you know a Betsy at the Boston org?
 
lotus

lotus

Gone away from madness!
Excuse me,
He are my 2 cents,

There are 2 different things addressed here and 2 beliefs ;

1) the ($cn imposed sci fi opera) belief that a person has many entities stucked to him\her and that must either be exorcised or handled with 2 way com (David's version) It is obvious that these entities are supposedly living in this plan, like disincarnated entities, hijacking parts of your mind, body...

2) Another belief, a spiritual belief, is that other spiritual beings may exist in other dimensions, other realms ex: god, gods, angels, archangels, mom who died, spiritual guides of yours... We way or may not feel those realms exist and we may or may not feel a connection.

I personnally, consider these realms exist, from a faithful perspective, because my heart feel for it, but in no way I will adopt the belief of a paranoid sociopath , who tried to exorcised his pseudo-entities and take for true that we are possessed by those entities.
I leave that to mental health professionals.

IMO, The realm we live in, is a realm of matter, space, energy... Spiritual entities inhabit their own realm... They don't live here... and they don't make a party in our body.

When my little voice in my head is too loud it is not an entity, it's the monkey mind spinning... 😉
 
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Type4_PTS

Type4_PTS

Well-known member
Riddick said:
I appreciate that comment by you. You were very smart to figure it out, but you did say in your earlier post 600k.

When I was on staff at the SF Mission during it's heyday, the regs would sell the dentists and chiro's clear packages, they were about 30-40k. Then The Time magazine came out, and lots of those folks wanted refunds. I was very new at the time.

Did you you know a Betsy at the Boston org?
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Yes, I said 600K but didn't say the Orgs require that it be paid all at once. And for some people, it is much more than 600K after they are pressured to donate to the Ideal Orgs, IAS, and many other things.

I knew of a Betsey from back at that time who was from New Hampshire. I didn't know her real well but am connected to her now on FB and we've chatted a bit. We were around Boston Org at the same time but I believe she was mostly on Day Org and I was on Foundation.
 
H

Helena Handbasket

Well-known member
HelluvaHoax! said:
.




YES. YES. YES!

In my previous post, I was considering the same alternative concepts you described!

I suppose if I had been raised in the rainforest, my go-to conclusion on inexplicable events would have been that the god-spirit of the jungle was either happy or angry with me. In a way, it would be nice to have such simplistic (albeit primitive) beliefs. LOL

Yeah, "primitive". However—what if this guy is actually the most knowledgeable person in human history? (seriously)


.

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When I was on a trip to the Australian Outback we met with a witch doctor. I told him I have some ability to sense and communicate with noncorporeal spirits. He said, "you're a witch doctor?" I said no, because I'm sure there's a lot more to it than being able to sense spirits. But apparently he thought that was a large part of what being a witch doctor is. See https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=witch+doctor+seville . :sneaky:

Helena
 
HelluvaHoax!

HelluvaHoax!

Well-known member
Veda

Veda

Well-known member
The comprehensive examination of the topic of this thread can be found in the chapter Are you haunted? from the book Messiah or Madman?

It provides a more balanced look.
 
Hatshepsut

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
Veda said:
The comprehensive examination of the topic of this thread can be found in the chapter Are you haunted? from the book Messiah or Madman?

It provides a more balanced look.
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Begins on page 348 and continues on. Are You Haunted Chapter 12. It's been a long long time since I read the book. I didn't even recognize the best bits. You don't have to download. It's a bit of a crtical view the author has


I wish I didn't find so much of this hauntng stuff true. I'd like to have swept it all under a carpet.....many times.
 
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Veda

Veda

Well-known member
Hatshepsut said:
Begins on page 348 and continues on. Are You Haunted Chapter 12. It's been a long long time since I read the book. I didn't even recognize the best bits. You don't have to download. It's a bit of a critical view the author has


I wish I didn't find so much of this hauntng stuff true. I'd like to have swept it all under a carpet.....many times.
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Thanks for finding the original crude 1990s scan of the 1987 "rush to print" edition. The better scan of the same edition, which I had bookmarked, has recently disappeared, and I couldn't find any scans.

Messiah or Madman? is unusual in that, to quote from the book flap of the 1996 expanded third edition (464 pages), it:

"Exposes as never before the dark side of Scientology, yet contains an in depth examination of the potential positives of the subject and their actual origins."

(Note: Messiah or Madman? was the first of the 1980s books that consulted the wealth of information that had become available during that decade. This was the decade when the dam broke, so to speak.)


Some background​

The chronology of the rejection of Hubbard as "Source" began with J.A. Winter, who had written the Introduction to Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health and, less than a year later, resigned from the Hubbard Dianetics Research Foundation, and then wrote A Doctor's Report on Dianetics, with an introduction by Fritz Perls. Around the same time, Astounding magazine editor John Campbell also resigned from the Hubbard Dianetics Research Foundation and, later, described Dianetics as a cult.

Then came the assertion of independence by the California Association of Dianetic Auditors, and the appearance of the Aberree magazine.


​
The Aberree continued to be published into 1964, soon after which the first Doctor of Scientology (circa 1954), Jack Horner, was Declared a Suppressive Person, Horner disagreed with the new Hubbard bulletin titled Keeping Scientology Working, in which Hubbard had firmly and emphatically reasserted himself as the sole "Source."

As far as I know, the first delineation of the sources of Dianetics and Scientology was in a cassette tape titled Nibs to the Field in 1984, which named various people (Scientologists) to whom were attributed the origination of early Scientology ideas and techniques. Nibs, of course, was L. Ron Hubbard Junior.

Then came the book Messiah or Madman? in 1987, which detailed antecedents such as Crowley, Freud, Richard Semon, Korzybski, et al.

The Sole Source Myth thread on old (archived) ESMB contains a lot of information and names that can be plumbed.

One of the drawbacks of a dismissive attitude towards a topic is the disinclination to, comprehensively, examine details. Who wishes to examine nonsense?

The irony is that Hubbard's claim to be "Source" (with a capital "S") is a hypnotists trick, the power of which can be weakened by calmly and unemotionally examining earlier (actual) sources. But one must take a subject (at least slightly) seriously to do this. Who takes garbage seriously?

This can result in people who are OUT being unable to communicate to people who are IN, even if, by some quirk of fate, an opportunity for that communication occurs.

*​

Crudely formatted as the Are You Haunted? chapter is, it stands in contrast to the opening post of this thread which expresses misguided exuberance or premeditatedly seeks to take advantage of suggestible persons.

Thanks again for finding it.

Post Scientology, there are better alternatives than joining the Cynics League or joining the (Ron's Orgs) Galactic Patrol, etc.

David St. Lawrence, apparently, believes in Ron's Orgs founder Bill Robertson, a.k.a. Astar Paramejgian who, in a doll body, lives in a star ship, with an adjoining cabin to Elron Elray, a.k.a. L. Ron Hubbard. Recently, St. Lawrence believes, Elron decided to return to Earth as a "walk in," and take over the body of Justin Craig, a career criminal and prison inmate. (See Tony Ortega interview)

Oy vey.

The image below is from the cover of a counter culture comix of the early 1970s depicting the scene in San Francisco during the Summer of Love in 1967, when Jesus returned to Earth only to find himself talked into joining staff at the San Francisco Scientology "Org."



*

For some more added perspective...​

Here are some songs by people who were, in one fashion or another, involved with Scientology in the past.

Leonard Cohen was audited on the Lower Grades and, after having moved on from Scientology, wrote this song:


*​

The 1972 book, Naked Scientology, is a compilation of William Burroughs' critiques on Scientology, and attempts to explain his involvement in Scientology.

"Like an anthropologist who has, after unspeakable indignities, penetrated a savage tribe, I was determined to hang on to get the big medicine."

*

Also during the late 1960s, the psychedelic Scottish folk music group, the Incredible String Band, became involved.

Guests on the Julie Fox Show
From just before Scientology involvement​

After leaving, ISB co-founder Mike Heron called his involvement in Scientology "silly," because he should have seen "that the control it exercised over me was stronger than anything I could have learned from it."

*

From Van Morrison's Inarticulate Speech of the Heart album of 1983:

During the early 1980s Van Morrison was briefly "on lines,"
and received "Life Repair" auditing.
Morrison apparently liked the auditing,
but did not wish to become further involved.

Three years later he released another album titled
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher.

*

One celebrity who Scientology Inc. sought was Frank Zappa.

Zappa, who, although he never became involved, was influenced by exposure
to some of Hubbard's books from the 1950s.

From the 1967 album

*​
 
Hatshepsut

Hatshepsut

Well-known member
I've had a couple of gratis sessions with David St Lawrence over Telegram, and I found him grounded. My reluctance to open Pandora's Box items which have consequences, had made me a recalcirant client. I seemed booby trapped all over and was used to the more precise surgical procedure developed by David Mayo. Although I didn't find NOTS permanently rid my unwanted attributes, I was thankful his communication technique prevented cross restimulation.

I you are not in a condition where you have trouble with others' determinism hindering your own, it sometimes doesn't resonate. I would have nothing to do with wasting my attention on the subject of body thetans or demons of Borgs prior to being 'bothered' by such. And to this day, I don't believe I'd have been 'bothered' that much outside the games sphere of Scientology. We'd been playing a game where certain opponencies and cross-influencers were called for in the script.



I've read David St Lawrence's books on Talking to Spirits. I don't know that he presently thinks LRH 2.0 is a walk-in.

I am willing to take part in the research he is recruiting for. That it's just research is something to keep in mind. I have something I want to investigate, though my ideas of players and pieces is similar to Alan Walter's at the moment.. David has increasingly made efforts not to evaluate for his clients. although he's not afraid to comment freely on his observations.
 
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