"You can't be poor and be a scientologist" -the view from the rich public

[HelluvaHoax!]

I don't think for a single moment that it did tank ... but you do think that.

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Agreed.

By any reasonable standards it did not "tank", LOL.

It was by all conventional and commercial metrics a screaming success.

There is no definition of the word "tank" one could honestly use to describe Leah's hugely successful media exposure of Scientology via books, long-form interviews, a smash multi-season series and personal appearances on talk countless talk shows.

The concept of Leah "tanking" (failing) is the identical argument previously used by Rathbun (before he got his big settlement check) and currently used by Alanzo about Leah. They claim that her whistleblowing is all wrong and failed because -----because she failed to remove COB and failed to get federal and tax authorities to instantly shut down Scientology. LOL. So this is their "proof" that she is a failure.

The word "tank" in this context is gaslighting.

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[guanoloco]

I guess at that point I was fresh from watching it and made a less precise and more engaged comment than the later ones. I felt like I was being precise and clear enough at the time. Now I improved with subsequent posts,

I do recognize that this discussion did make me clarify some of my ideas and put them in a much more organized and clearer written form. And this is precisely the worth of debates in general and forums in specific.



That remains my opinion. Though I have put it in more emotional terms in the first post, as I was fresh from watching the vid - I cooled down a bit.


Why would it be dishonest? That's the way I feel about the interview. You can agree or disagree, but to judge honesty you would need to be abel to look into my head. I don't believe you have these sort of OT powers.


What about Marty? He's not in the interview and has not expressed an opinion AFAIK.
I don't trust him anyway.


And to me that makes it worse. She had the knowledge, but she didn't use it. She could have led the interview from a better angle, but she chose to follow the celebrity format.

This is a perfect example of micromanagement "think", splitting hairs and diving into the weeds. No wonder you would have a grievance with semantics from an interview.

Here you take up, line-by-line, the post and in doing so you completely miss the forest for the trees.

 

[Karakorum]

OK.

Let's look at objective 3.

Q: Scientology costs what?

A: Half a million.

Coupled with the exposure of the abuse how many times does this have to be front and center before the public pressure causes the IRS to answer why they allow exemption to an abusive fraud that is bilking people?

In a day and age where Harvard has to give back government money because of the bad PR this is the best line of attack.

I stongly agree with this part.

With media soundbytes measured in the microseconds this is the best focus.

This part not so much. I mean amazing soundbites on popular shows that speak to the minds and emotions of the general public will be great. Yet at the same time, I think the era of soundbites, big station talk shows and late night shows is slowly sailing towards the setting sun. I have a feeling that long Rogan-style interviews and podcats are the future. But I don't have a crystal ball, its an educated guess at most.

This is a perfect example of micromanagement "think", splitting hairs and diving into the weeds. No wonder you would have a grievance with semantics from an interview.

Here you take up, line-by-line, the post and in doing so you completely miss the forest for the trees.

I think it would be far less clear and more confusing if I just took these replies and posted them at the bottom of the whole post. To me, that approach would make no sense from an utilitarian viewpoint. The forum as a form of media allows one to address specific points in a discussion, we should use this possibility whenever its convenient for the readers.

 

[Dotey OT]

You know, my biggest concern when Alanzo would get going would be that if any current scientologist that would happen to drive by would take a look here, all they would see is infighting. The infighting would be about whether critics of scientology such as Mike, Tony, Leah, etc. were worth anything. But the language would be seasoned with words such as "tribalism" and other choice Alanzoisms.

Here it is, several weeks after Alanzo is gone, and guess what's happening?

 

[I told you I was trouble]

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Agreed.

By any reasonable standards it did not "tank", LOL.

It was by all conventional and commercial metrics a screaming success.

There is no definition of the word "tank" one could honestly use to describe Leah's hugely successful media exposure of Scientology via books, long-form interviews, a hit tv show and personal appearances on talk shows.

The concept of Leah "tanking" (failing) is the identical argument previously used by Rathbun (before he got his big settlement check) and currently used by Alanzo about Leah. They claim that her whistleblowing is all wrong and failed because -----because she failed to remove COB and failed to get federal and tax authorities to instantly shut down Scientology. LOL. So this is their "proof" that she is a failure.

The word "tank" in this context is gaslighting.

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I'm pretty sure Kara was referring just to that single video (or just a section of that video) but no, it certainly didn't tank ... and the video mentioned is just a tiny part of the superb effort Leah is putting into exposing the cofs anyway.

I don't see it as gaslighting though ... but I would start thinking that way if she or anyone else started repeatedly posting negative things about Leah or about any other whistleblower as Alanzo and Rathbun did.

 

[Karakorum]

You know, my biggest concern when Alanzo would get going would be that if any current scientologist that would happen to drive by would take a look here, all they would see is infighting. The infighting would be about whether critics of scientology such as Mike, Tony, Leah, etc. were worth anything. But the language would be seasoned with words such as "tribalism" and other choice Alanzoisms.

Here it is, several weeks after Alanzo is gone, and guess what's happening?

Yeah, I do not want infighting - no more than anyone else.

But if I have to thought-police myself to avoid arguments, then I'm simply not gonna do it.

I've already done enough self-thought-policing in the cult, thank you very much.

 

[Lee #28]

just to put my toes in this water.....

It was interesting at the Shrine when Tom Cruise got the Freedom Medal. David Miscavige announced that Tom was the TOP FSM on the planet.... (How that was figured....I have no idea.) That was the reason given for the Medal Awarded...

Just taking that as my leading in point, it really does astound me how many TV personalities were or are Cult Members....and I don't even follow this at all....(and not just Scientology Cult...but others. But I'll stick to Scientology)

If anyone is familiar with the old TV show...."Married with Children" I just learned last week that the original first Pilot for that show had Karen Black's son, cast as the character "Bud." But Ed O'Neil ( the lead actor ) didn't like either of the 2 children cast....so they were replaced.

It would not be an exaggeration to say that the kid that did get cast in the part....made many millions of dollars ....acting in that role.

Perhaps thousands of new fresh young people arrive in LA weekly.....to try to get into the Industry....
Plus, existing Cult Celebrities children....wanting to get into the biz...

Scientology most definitely uses their "Celebrity Cult Member" track record to lure some of those arriving to break into the biz....into the Cult.

It then becomes the Reg's job to determine if they can sell them a $25 intro Course / book....or a $25,000 intro package....

But if it is true that Tom Cruise was ( at the time ) the top FSM for the cult....that is an important point in why the Cult's vastly over promoting it's Celebrities....to the public. If this is all true....then people evidently start taking courses in the Cult.....just because some Celebrity does.

The Cult brazenly promotes the possibility of "Connections" in the Industry...via Hollywood Trade Magazines....

Plus....way back at the formation of the Celebrity Center....Hubbarbtard had put out a hit list of "wanted dead or alive" Celebrities to be hunted down and brought into the Cult....at all costs.... He valued them in his plans....

I liked that in the Student Hat Course....there was something written that no one was to get special treatment....and all were on an even footing so to speak. That REALLY meant a lot to me....when I read it. But it was a complete lie.....of course. ( I'll have to find that passage some day....)

As we all know....the Cult goes after the money.

Who was next up on the chopping block? Dentists and Chiropractors... Why? They had money. ( and an opening wedge to get to them)

But....if just one Cult kid.....makes in in Hollywood.....that is many many millions of dollars....that the Cult then has access to. And access to his connections... for further exploitation...

I was a poor Cult member....

But....having started in the early 70's when things were still relatively cheap....so I did get up the bridge somewhat....but it took most of what I had....and my then life to do it....

I would like to see BOTH categories thinned out....and reduced to zero.

 

[guanoloco]

You know, my biggest concern when Alanzo would get going would be that if any current scientologist that would happen to drive by would take a look here, all they would see is infighting. The infighting would be about whether critics of scientology such as Mike, Tony, Leah, etc. were worth anything. But the language would be seasoned with words such as "tribalism" and other choice Alanzoisms.

Here it is, several weeks after Alanzo is gone, and guess what's happening?

Want to know how much "attention units" I gave Alonzo?

I just now, today, learned he was banned.

I post here daily.

 

[Lee #28]

Want to know how much "attention units" I gave Alonzo?

I just now, today, learned he was banned.

I post here daily.

LOL.....me too.

I had put him on Ignore...just for my own sanity....

But then his posts were being put up via Quotes....by others...

I was like WTF do I have to do to not be subjected to his rantings....?

Dang, he is irritating....

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..... but no, it certainly didn't tank ... and the video mentioned is just a tiny part of the superb effort Leah is putting into exposing the CofS anyway.

Thanks for putting that on the record!

At times, I can be a harsh critic---but i also know when someone like Leah has done something extraordinary, putting themselves at great risk and successfully helping expose some of the countless crimes of Scientology. I recognize that this is not a moment to look for fault and to denigrate or criticize---but instead be grateful and express sincere affection for all the great they did.

I never hesitate to lavish praise on people like Leah (and others) who have courageously stepped up and used their slingshots against the barbarous beast that is Scientology. These individuals deserve recognition, praise, support and love----not nasty narrow minded criticism.

When i hear nasty criticism of people that are actually doing something BIG & SUCCESSFUL against Scientology's abuses, I instinctively look to see what that critic has done that might be better. I always find that they are not only not doing anything better--they are doing nothing at all. Their entire contribution is to sit back and take pot shots at people who are bravely soldiering in the trenches with live bullets flying. You may not agree with my opinion of such do-nothing critics, but I feel that they are a hypocritical disgrace.

Much love to all the great people past and present who put themselves on the line and achieved great things in working to stop the criminal fraud and abuses of Scientology.

 

[Karakorum]

Dang, he is irritating....

You find him irritating? At least you didn't get accused of being Alanzo's sockpuppet account

 

[Lee #28]

You find him irritating? At least you didn't get accused of being Alanzo's sockpuppet account

To be honest...it crossed my mind...

Others irritate me also.....not just that guy.

 

[He-man]

Is this gonna repeat itself every time someone has a difference in opinion when it comes to other exes/critics?

I guess it is time for an educational video from the past!

This time, lets focus on the jews!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

At least you didn't get accused of being Alanzo's sockpuppet account

Go back and read it again. I said you were "posting Alanzo's comments after he was banned".

I said that because you were posting Alanzo's comments after he was banned. HIS comments.

You posted and linked to HIS comments. I faithfully copied and posted the post where you did that. You replied that you did not post his comments. But right there in plain sight you posted FOUR (4) of his comments. Each was clearly evident as an "Alanzo said": hyperlink. When the link was clicked Alanzo's comments came up. But you deny that. Gaslight much? LOL

If anyone doubts this, look at it yourself. HERE IS THE LINK



.

 

[stratty]

Go back and read it again. I said you were "posting Alanzo's comments after he was banned". I said that because you were posting Alanzo's comments after he was banned. HIS comments. You posted and linked to HIS comments. I faithfully copied and posted the post where you did that. You replied that you did not post his comments. But right there in plain sight you posted THREE (3) of his comments. Gaslight much? LOL

If anyone doubts this, look at it yourself. HERE IS THE LINK

.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Thanks for putting that on the record!

At times, I can be a harsh critic---but i also know when someone like Leah has done something extraordinary, putting themselves at great risk and successfully helping expose some of the countless crimes of Scientology. I recognize that this is not a moment to look for fault and to denigrate or criticize---but instead be grateful and express sincere affection for all the great they did.

I never hesitate to lavish praise on people like Leah (and others) who have courageously stepped up and used their slingshots against the barbarous beast that is Scientology. These individuals deserve recognition, praise, support and love----not nasty narrow minded criticism.

When i hear nasty criticism of people that are actually doing something BIG & SUCCESSFUL against Scientology's abuses, I instinctively look to see what that critic has done that might be better. I always find that they are not only not doing anything better--they are doing nothing at all. Their entire contribution is to sit back and take pot shots at people who are bravely soldiering in the trenches with live bullets flying. You may not agree with my opinion of such do-nothing critics, but I feel that it is a complete disgrace.

Much love to all the great people past and present who put themselves on the line and achieved great things in working to stop the criminal fraud and abuses of Scientology.

I believe part of becoming our true selves again after leaving the cult is that wonderful feeling of no longer having to be careful when we speak or in this case, post ... you and I and many others have been on ESMB now for over a decade but I still vividly remember that feeling and I occasionally liked saying certain things just because I could.



I didn't find Kara's post nasty, I didn't agree with it but I didn't find it nasty. In some ways I wondered if she was just stretching her wings, enjoying the freedom of being somewhere where she can just be herself with other exes and say whatever she likes (within ESMB rules) after being in the cult for so long (second generation IIRC).

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I believe part of becoming our true selves again after leaving the cult is that wonderful feeling of no longer having to be careful when we speak or in this case, post ... you and I and many others have been on ESMB now for over a decade but I still vividly remember that feeling and I occasionally liked saying certain things just because I could.
....

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LOL, yeah!

Post Scientology, it's diabolically dang fun to once again have "freedom of speech" and "freedom of thought".

After our lovely vacations in CultWorld, there certainly was a little adjustment period to get used to Total Freedom from Total Freedom. LOL

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[He-man]

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LOL, yeah!

Post Scientology, it's diabolically dang fun to once again have "freedom of speech" and "freedom of thought".

After our lovely vacations in CultWorld, there certainly was a little adjustment period to get used to Total Freedom from Total Freedom. LOL

.

...only to fall into the belief that your own opinion is the only valid one, the only one deserving common courtesy and respect?

Tounge in cheek moment.

 

[Churchill]

Ideas and opinions that fall outside of the Overton window invariably require considerably more supporting evidence than you’ve provided.
You get that, right, Karakorum?
If you use the word “tanked”to describe your opinion of Leah’s (accurate) answer to an interview question then choose not to walk it back or add supporting information to your opinion...other than repeating, ad nauseum, your opinion that “the emperor is naked” casting yourself as some brave truthteller...don‘t be surprised if you’re viewed as a troll.
No one is above criticism, but if anyone has earned, and deserves the twin appellations of Troublemaker and Truthteller, it’s LEAH, not you...whoever you are,
In my opinion, you are 100% entitled to your worthless opinion.

 

[guanoloco]

...only to fall into the belief that your own opinion is the only valid one, the only one deserving common courtesy and respect?

Tounge in cheek moment.

Begone, son of Pel.